Scleral show is effected by the levator labii superioris muscle

[PrisonMike]

I argue that maxillary recession is not the only cause of scleral show. However, it is also caused by weak facial muscles.
We first need to be acquainted with the levator labii superioris muscle:

The levator labii superioris (or quadratus labii superioris) is a muscle of the human body used in facial expression. It is a broad sheet, the origin of which extends from the side of the nose to the zygomatic bone.
source: wikipedia

This muscle is used in many facial expressions. However, it also lifts the facial fat on either side of the nose beneath the eyes when squinting. You can try it for yourself. Try squinting while activating that muscle. You will see that it will temporarily fix your scleral show. Therefore, it stands to reason that training this muscle by continuously using it will partially remedy the scleral show.

Is it natural to train this facial muscle to fix the scleral show? Shouldn't my eye area be fine without having to activate any muscles? You may ask.
I have noticed that scleral show is most commonly found in people that don't see the sunlight a lot. If you go out in the sun, you will instinctively use that muscle to cover your eyes. So if you rarely use it, the muscle will atrophy and cause scleral show due to poor under eye support. Training the muscle will strengthen it and reduce the scleral show without having to activate the muscle.

 

[Catawampus]

Spoiler

 

[Deleted member 3962]

this is legit I believe. I used to have sceral show but ive been squinting so much due to my poor eyesight for the past few years that i dont have it anymore.

 

[Almu]

Try to trag your mouth down as much as possible and try to squint. The tension is insane.

 

[DianabolDownie]

I squint without activating that muscle, but I can still activate if if i want to

 

[MaxxedOut]

I argue that maxillary recession is not the only cause of scleral show. However, it is also caused by weak facial muscles.
We first need to be acquainted with the levator labii superioris muscle:

View attachment 274627

This muscle is used in many facial expressions. However, it also lifts the facial fat on either side of the nose beneath the eyes when squinting. You can try it for yourself. Try squinting while activating that muscle. You will see that it will temporarily fix your scleral show. Therefore, it stands to reason that training this muscle by continuously using it will partially remedy the scleral show.

Is it natural to train this facial muscle to fix the scleral show? Shouldn't my eye area be fine without having to activate any muscles? You may ask.
I have noticed that scleral show is most commonly found in people that don't see the sunlight a lot. If you go out in the sun, you will instinctively use that muscle to cover your eyes. So if you rarely use it, the muscle will atrophy and cause scleral show due to poor under eye support. Training the muscle will strengthen it and reduce the scleral show without having to activate the muscle.

Interesting find. I'm sure using an EMS device would help accelerate results if this is true.

 

[PrisonMike]

Interesting find. I'm sure using an EMS device would help accelerate results if this is true.

I would avoid that. Squinting and mimicking the facial expression of a person out in the sun and training your muscles naturally is definitely the way to go. If you over-train your levator labii superioris muscle, you might end up with a weird resting face.

 

[Deleted member 2227]

Lax Tendons

 

[retard]

when i try to tense that muscle it just does the same thing as a squinch. Is this what it is supposed to do or am i activating the wrong muscles?

 

[PrisonMike]

when i try to tense that muscle it just does the same thing as a squinch. Is this what it is supposed to do or am i activating the wrong muscles?

It is hard to describe. I recommend shining a bright light on your face and note the facial expression you make. This is the facial expression our ancestors held for most of the time. It is basically just squinting while slightly activating the surrounding muscles.

 

[retard]

It is hard to describe. I recommend shining a bright light on your face and note the facial expression you make. This is the facial expression our ancestors held for most of the time. It is basically just squinting while slightly activating the surrounding muscles.

alright I think I found it, when I use this muscle it also decreases scalera show but even after I max tense it I can further bring it up with my ocularis muscle meaning that I’m using 2 different ones.

Do you think the ocularis one under your eye could have any effect on it? I doubt it since I’ve been squinching for a long time now with no improvements but just wanted your opinion
ok I’ve just found the muscle, I’ll train it hard af and report back in a month on results

 

[PrisonMike]

alright I think I found it, when I use this muscle it also decreases scalera show but even after I max tense it I can further bring it up with my ocularis muscle meaning that I’m using 2 different ones.

Do you think the ocularis one under your eye could have any effect on it? I doubt it since I’ve been squinching for a long time now with no improvements but just wanted your opinion
ok I’ve just found the muscle, I’ll train it hard af and report back in a month on results

You have to remember that your facial muscles are no different from any other muscle in your body. This where my knowledge in bodybuilding is helpful. The amount of resistance you apply to your facial muscles when making that facial expression is very small. Therefore, the only way to properly train that muscle is to apply the TUT (Time Under Tension) principle. This principle basically says that you can train a muscle with smaller weights just as effectively if you increase the time duration where the muscle is put under tension. This makes perfect sense. Our ancestors held that facial expression for hours every day.

Next, you need to consume enough amounts of protein. Just like any other muscle in your body, you need proper rest and nutrition for it to grow. Expecting the muscle to instantly grow is like curling a 5lbs dumbbell and expecting your biceps to instantly grow. You need time. I'd say give it about a month before you see good results.

 

[theanonymousone]

I argue that maxillary recession is not the only cause of scleral show. However, it is also caused by weak facial muscles.
We first need to be acquainted with the levator labii superioris muscle:

View attachment 274627

This muscle is used in many facial expressions. However, it also lifts the facial fat on either side of the nose beneath the eyes when squinting. You can try it for yourself. Try squinting while activating that muscle. You will see that it will temporarily fix your scleral show. Therefore, it stands to reason that training this muscle by continuously using it will partially remedy the scleral show.

Is it natural to train this facial muscle to fix the scleral show? Shouldn't my eye area be fine without having to activate any muscles? You may ask.
I have noticed that scleral show is most commonly found in people that don't see the sunlight a lot. If you go out in the sun, you will instinctively use that muscle to cover your eyes. So if you rarely use it, the muscle will atrophy and cause scleral show due to poor under eye support. Training the muscle will strengthen it and reduce the scleral show without having to activate the muscle.

Interesting read

What do you think about this then? It says it's specifically for cheeks too, this is kind of the motion I picture when I read your OP:

 

[PrisonMike]

Interesting read

What do you think about this then? It says it's specifically for cheeks too, this is kind of the motion I picture when I read your OP:

It's too much. This is not scalable. I can't be doing this for more than a few mins. However, I can flex my facial muscles for hours on end.
Think about it. This needs to be a habit, just like 'mewing'. Therefore, it should be easy to do without requiring weird gestures, motions, etc.

I am going to have to experiment for myself. I might eventually agree with the video. But for now, I am sticking to my OP.

 

[Kama]

It seems levator labi superior only elevates your upper lip. Don't see any connection to scleral show. Scleral show is caused by either laxity in lateral and medial canthal tendons due to aging or stricture in orbicularis Oculus due to inflammatory disorder or trauma.

 

[Heirio]

nah

look at children of male models/people with good undereye support like chico or meeks. they always have the same tight undereye support as their fathers, same as kids with dads that have bug eyes. it's not muscle related imo, but tissue/tendon and bone related

 

[PrisonMike]

It seems levator labi superior only elevates your upper lip. Don't see any connection to scleral show. Scleral show is caused by either laxity in lateral and medial canthal tendons due to aging or stricture in orbicularis Oculus due to inflammatory disorder or trauma.

I might be wrong about which muscle or muscle group affects the scleral show. But my point still holds, facial muscles effects it.

nah

look at children of male models/people with good undereye support like chico or meeks. they always have the same tight undereye support as their fathers, same as kids with dads that have bug eyes. it's not muscle related imo, but tissue/tendon and bone related

That's true. But that's why they are models. Their faces give the illusion of being healthy, well developed, and strong without any effort. Chico has a recessed maxilla yet he is still attractive because of his genetics.

 

[Kama]

nah

look at children of male models/people with good undereye support like chico or meeks. they always have the same tight undereye support as their fathers, same as kids with dads that have bug eyes. it's not muscle related imo, but tissue/tendon and bone related

This. Look up orbital vectors, it's the relation of eye position to malar eminence in side view . Beautiful people tend to have positive to neutral vectors, that is deep set eye as contrast to bug eyes. This all has to do forward and upward grown Maxilla and high zygomatic arch, better under eye support and better anchoring of canthal tendons. Opposite scenario is down ward Maxilla (long mid face and recessed chin) lack of or droopy zygomatic arch and droopy eyes.

 

[PrisonMike]

This. Look up orbital vectors, it's the relation of eye position to malar eminence in side view . Beautiful people tend to have positive to neutral vectors, that is deep set eye as contrast to bug eyes. This all has to do forward and upward grown Maxilla and high zygomatic arch, better under eye support and better anchoring of canthal tendons. Opposite scenario is down ward Maxilla (long mid face and recessed chin) lack of or droopy zygomatic arch and droopy eyes.

What about chico? Does he have a positive vector?

 

[Kama]

What about chico? Does he have a positive vector?
View attachment 282772

Not the best side profile but in this pic as the face is slightly turned away so he has neutral vector. Draw a line from pupil to corner of the mouth and another one from ear to nasolabial fold, intersection point is where malar eminence should be to be neutral, and ME in front, it's positive, behind its negative.

 

[retard]

nah

look at children of male models/people with good undereye support like chico or meeks. they always have the same tight undereye support as their fathers, same as kids with dads that have bug eyes. it's not muscle related imo, but tissue/tendon and bone related

it has to be muscle related as your levels of sclera show increase throughout the day,this wouldn’t effect bones/tendons leaving muscles as the only culprit and it makes sense as muscles fatigue but when you wake up they are recharged and your sclera show lessens relative to the night before
Op you are 100% correct I found proof of your theory lemme explain

First off you need to realize there are two different ways to squint

1. Tensing your orbiculus oculi muscle (aka squinching)

2. Using the muscle OP talks about, it it specifcally made to raise the mouth BUT when you do this consequently the lower eyelid is pushed upwards

since the muscle is made to raise the mouth whenever you activate it you will get nasolobial folds, now we can differentiate between which method of squint is being used, 1 or 2

Since evolution would of programmed us to build up this muscle we need to find which way is the “natural way” that evolution protected us from the light by squinting and which muscles were involved

Google people squinting from bright light, every picture will display nasolobial folds which means they are using the muscle OP claimed


since your sclera show increases throughout the day you can conclude muscle must play a role since bone and tendons wouldn’t be affected by fatigue like muscles are. Since when the muscles at their full stamina/strength (when you wake up) you have the least amount of sclera show and vice versa

through this you can deduce by training the muscle (which can be done just by smiling) you can reduce sclera show

MAJOR FUCKING LIFE FUEL

Op I literally fucking love you undereye support is my biggest flaw I literally never smile and I basementrott 24/7 and have slight sclera show despite really good maxilla development

 

[PrisonMike]

it has to be muscle related as your levels of sclera show increase throughout the day,this wouldn’t effect bones/tendons leaving muscles as the only culprit and it makes sense as muscles fatigue but when you wake up they are recharged and your sclera show lessens relative to the night before
Op you are 100% correct I found proof of your theory lemme explain

First off you need to realize there are two different ways to squint

1. Tensing your orbiculus oculi muscle (aka squinching)

2. Using the muscle OP talks about, it it specifcally made to raise the mouth BUT when you do this consequently the lower eyelid is pushed upwards

since the muscle is made to raise the mouth whenever you activate it you will get nasolobial folds, now we can differentiate between which method of squint is being used, 1 or 2

Since evolution would of programmed us to build up this muscle we need to find which way is the “natural way” that evolution protected us from the light by squinting and which muscles were involved

Google people squinting from bright light, every picture will display nasolobial folds which means they are using the muscle OP claimed


since your sclera show increases throughout the day you can conclude muscle must play a role since bone and tendons wouldn’t be affected by fatigue like muscles are. Since when the muscles at their full stamina/strength (when you wake up) you have the least amount of sclera show and vice versa

through this you can deduce by training the muscle (which can be done just by smiling) you can reduce sclera show

MAJOR FUCKING LIFE FUEL

Op I literally fucking love you undereye support is my biggest flaw I literally never smile and I basementrott 24/7 and have slight sclera show despite really good maxilla development

Thank you so much man. This is life fuel for me too. We can do this. Science brought us technology, space shuttles, cars, etc. Through science, we can reverse engineer every fucking chad and climb the accolades together.

@retard I was having a conversation with @DaGullas and we kind of agreed that the rise of inceldom in humans is mostly due to the industrial revolution. The more people stay at home and eat terrible diets, the more your face 'melts' as in your maxilla recedes and your facial muscles weaken. This is very problematic for men because it makes you look very feminine. On the other hand, it is fine for women because it just adds to their femininity. This is a women's world that we have to navigate.

 

[retard]

currently doing the sun squint very hard- this thread deserves a bump, may OP receive more dopamine alerts for saving all of us sclerashowcels

 

[DaGullas]

Same here ahaha

 

[GetThatBread]

You have to remember that your facial muscles are no different from any other muscle in your body. This where my knowledge in bodybuilding is helpful. The amount of resistance you apply to your facial muscles when making that facial expression is very small. Therefore, the only way to properly train that muscle is to apply the TUT (Time Under Tension) principle. This principle basically says that you can train a muscle with smaller weights just as effectively if you increase the time duration where the muscle is put under tension. This makes perfect sense. Our ancestors held that facial expression for hours every day.

Next, you need to consume enough amounts of protein. Just like any other muscle in your body, you need proper rest and nutrition for it to grow. Expecting the muscle to instantly grow is like curling a 5lbs dumbbell and expecting your biceps to instantly grow. You need time. I'd say give it about a month before you see good results.

How come this isn’t widely known? Even Neck training isn’t that popular. I’d never seen someone mention Facial muscles on a bodyBuilding forum

 

[retard]

How come this isn’t widely known? Even Neck training isn’t that popular. I’d never seen someone mention Facial muscles on a bodyBuilding forum

the only thing normies know about an eye area being good is the color, stuff like lower lid tightness they wouldn’t even know exists

 

[GetThatBread]

the only thing normies know about an eye area being good is the color, stuff like lower lid tightness they wouldn’t even know exists

But wouldn’t they know somethings up? Say for example you had a droopy PCT and all of Sudden you come back with a great eye area you can’t just be like “oh yeah started sleeping more”

 

[retard]

But wouldn’t they know somethings up? Say for example you had a droopy PCT and all of Sudden you come back with a great eye area you can’t just be like “oh yeah started sleeping more”

they wouldn’t be able to pin point it unless they anaylyzed pictures of before and after

 

[garfyld]

Cope.

Henry Cavill has god tier bones, is not recessed and lives in LA(much sun) and still his undereye support is shit.
Screlal show = genetics

 

[Deleted member 4675]

brb squintmaxxing

 

[PrisonMike]

How come this isn’t widely known? Even Neck training isn’t that popular. I’d never seen someone mention Facial muscles on a bodyBuilding forum

Craniofacial development and its categories are not widely studied/researched. If you look back far enough, you will find a few research papers talking about proper tongue posture and how it affects skull development. However, it has been popularized by Mike Mew. Similarly, I am sure you will find some research papers or books talking about nasolabial folds and scleral show. However, it has not been popularized. Forums are not usually frequented by scientists. So I don't know why you would expect a bodybuilding forum to be aware of these things.

Cope.

Henry Cavill has god tier bones, is not recessed and lives in LA(much sun) and still his undereye support is shit.
Screlal show = genetics

You can clearly see that his nasolabial folds are not pronounced.
This is an example of a video game character with extremely well developed facial muscles:

 

[Greeicy]

What's this bullshit cope again? Undereye support has to do with your maxilla growth (orbital rims, cheekbones, etc...). I genuinely hope you get raped to death by a bunch of midget niggers.

 

[GetThatBread]

Craniofacial development and its categories are not widely studied/researched. If you look back far enough, you will find a few research papers talking about proper tongue posture and how it affects skull development. However, it has been popularized by Mike Mew. Similarly, I am sure you will find some research papers or books talking about nasolabial folds and scleral show. However, it has not been popularized. Forums are not usually frequented by scientists. So I don't know why you would expect a bodybuilding forum to be aware of these things.

You can clearly see that his nasolabial folds are not pronounced.
This is an example of a video game character with extremely well developed facial muscles:
View attachment 288603

So since it’s like every other muscle in the body what is the best approach? For example: you can’t train biceps 5 days a week. Do you treat as if it’s a full body workout? One day a week, low volume; heavy intensity?

 

[PrisonMike]

So since it’s like every other muscle in the body what is the best approach? For example: you can’t train biceps 5 days a week. Do you treat as if it’s a full body workout? One day a week, low volume; heavy intensity?

The best way to train muscles when you don't have much resistance is to apply the TUT (Time Under Tension) principle. Basically, flex the muscles for as long you can (mimicking the facial expression of someone out in the sun). We really don't have solid answers for how long and how often you are supposed to do it. I, @retard , and @DaGullas are currently experimenting. I'll add you to our group chat where we discuss our results.

What's this bullshit cope again? Undereye support has to do with your maxilla growth (orbital rims, cheekbones, etc...). I genuinely hope you get raped to death by a bunch of midget niggers.

I don't want to meet your cousins. On a more serious note, I never denied the importance of maxilla positioning on scleral show. All I am arguing for is that there are other things that are affecting it.

 

[KnoxHarrington]

Wow. This is a mega game changer. As someone said earlier, you don't want THAT many people knowing about this. But holy shit. This works. Two points to make:

1) I think there's something to the idea that like Mike Mew has discussed, the ease of our modern lives and the softness of our foods are causing our faces to droop and to lose their muscle tone. I've always been able to move my ears and flex muscles in my skull. When I add this to squinching, my eye level improves by insane levels. INSANE levels.

2) When you look in the mirror, consciously try to relax and let everything droop. Notice how dead and fucking SCARY you look. Take a picture if necessary. Then try to squinch, flex, and tense all the face muscles if you can. Your looks improve by I don't know how many points. I'm not an experienced rater. But you look dead, then when you tense everything, you look so so much better.

I'm not saying this will work for everyone. I naturally have deep-set eyes and not much scleral show. But holy shit, if you have a good foundation this can make or break you. I just discovered this and was practicing in the mirror and it definitely seems like mewing, something you can train yourself to naturally do all the time.

Incidentally, hard mewing, and chewing on the incisors is fixing my teeth. This is fucking mind-blowing.

 

[PrisonMike]

Wow. This is a mega game changer. As someone said earlier, you don't want THAT many people knowing about this. But holy shit. This works. Two points to make:

1) I think there's something to the idea that like Mike Mew has discussed, the ease of our modern lives and the softness of our foods are causing our faces to droop and to lose their muscle tone. I've always been able to move my ears and flex muscles in my skull. When I add this to squinching, my eye level improves by insane levels. INSANE levels.

2) When you look in the mirror, consciously try to relax and let everything droop. Notice how dead and fucking SCARY you look. Take a picture if necessary. Then try to squinch, flex, and tense all the face muscles if you can. Your looks improve by I don't know how many points. I'm not an experienced rater. But you look dead, then when you tense everything, you look so so much better.

I'm not saying this will work for everyone. I naturally have deep-set eyes and not much scleral show. But holy shit, if you have a good foundation this can make or break you. I just discovered this and was practicing in the mirror and it definitely seems like mewing, something you can train yourself to naturally do all the time.

Incidentally, hard mewing, and chewing on the incisors is fixing my teeth. This is fucking mind-blowing.

Indeed. After bone, facial musculature is the most important aesthetic you can work on. When you fix your skin color through proper diet (carotenoids, cardio training, etc.), train your facial musculature, and continue to maintain your facial bones, it can dramatically change you to be more attractive and live a better life. Your face can make or break you. The more attractive your face is, the more likely you are to have better relationships, live a better life, work harder, etc.