Should i start pinning? 17yo

[Manza]

 

[mustfye]

no

 

[Manza]

no

why

 

[BR32]

no you got more natty gains to make

wait to hop on until you've maxed out natty potential

this only takes 3 years if you train, eat and sleep well.

then hop on

 

[mustfye]

why

you alr have decent muscle mass at 17 bro, unless if u wanna get huge i dont recommend

 

[Manza]

you alr have decent muscle mass at 17 bro, unless if u wanna get huge i dont recommend

thats why i asked, i’m not gonna pin with a shitty physique . I want to get bigger

 

[Manza]

no you got more natty gains to make

wait to hop on until you've maxed out natty potential

this only takes 3 years if you train, eat and sleep well.

then hop on

i’m only 1 year into the gym

 

[BR32]

i’m only 1 year into the gym

Give it a little longer buddy, you have good genetics, be patient, you'll get bigger if you wait

 

[Manza]

Give it a little longer buddy, you have good genetics, be patient, you'll get bigger if you wait

yh but the change rn isnt gonna be that noticeable, don’t think ill make much progress . And another thing , you’re 18 right, why do u pin alr

 

[BR32]

yh but the change rn isnt gonna be that noticeable, don’t think ill make much progress . And another thing , you’re 18 right, why do u pin alr

I've been training for 3 years and accrued a good amount of mass. also I have good genetics.

you're only a year in you will make more progress

 

[Micrognathic]

YES, HOP ON ROIDS ASAP!!!
Reaching ur natty potential before hopping on gear is utter cope
If u stay natty, have fun wasting 10-15 years of ur life
It's like saying I'm going to walk to get to the other side of the world instead of taking a plane, but ur both reaching the same destination.
Hopping on roids would cut the time it takes to reach ur natty potential in half
Plus, many other benefits come with it other than muscle
Assuming u can afford bloodwork etc
There's no reason to stay natty, especially at ur age

 

[BR32]

YES, HOP ON ROIDS ASAP!!!
Reaching ur natty potential before hopping on gear is utter cope
If u stay natty, have fun wasting 10-15 years of ur life
It's like saying I'm going to walk to get to the other side of the world instead of taking a plane, but ur both reaching the same destination.
Hopping on roids would cut the time it takes to reach ur natty potential in half
Plus, many other benefits come with it other than muscle
Assuming u can afford bloodwork etc
There's no reason to stay natty, especially at ur age

you can max out most natty potential in 3-4 years if you have good genetics

I say this as someone who is on roids

I'm glad I waited

maybe its different if you don't have good genetics

 

[Manza]

YES, HOP ON ROIDS ASAP!!!
Reaching ur natty potential before hopping on gear is utter cope
If u stay natty, have fun wasting 10-15 years of ur life
It's like saying I'm going to walk to get to the other side of the world instead of taking a plane, but ur both reaching the same destination.
Hopping on roids would cut the time it takes to reach ur natty potential in half
Plus, many other benefits come with it other than muscle
Assuming u can afford bloodwork etc
There's no reason to stay natty, especially at ur age

i’m waiting to get 18 so i go to college and i live by my own. So i can also start working and pay the vials and bloodwork with that money, rn with 17 is impossible for me to pin, but when i can , ill do it for sure

 

[Micrognathic]

you can max out most natty potential in 3-4 years if you have good genetics

I say this as someone who is on roids

I'm glad I waited

maybe its different if you don't have good genetics

Yes, I kinda agree with u
But why waste 3-4 years when he can achieve the same amount of progress, or even more, in half that time?
Assuming he knows what he's doing and taking precautions, bloodwork, etc.

 

[BR32]

Yes, I kinda agree with u
But why waste 3-4 years when he can achieve the same amount of progress, or even more, in half that time?
Assuming he knows what he's doing and taking precautions, bloodwork, etc.

The only reason I would suggest waiting 3-4 years is because if you have good genes you can get pretty big natty and gear only has so much stimulus. You can take way less and get better results if you have a good basleine. its not necessary but for long term health its beneficial. I'm on 300 test and I look better than people on 500 or test and other anabolics.

 

[BR32]

The only reason I would suggest waiting 3-4 years is because if you have good genes you can get pretty big natty and gear only has so much stimulus. You can take way less and get better results if you have a good basleine. its not necessary but for long term health its beneficial. I'm on 300 test and I look better than people on 500 or test and other anabolics.

Watch this video by Dorian Sacari

 

[BR32]

Watch this video by Dorian Sacari

@Manza

watch this shit

 

[Micrognathic]

The only reason I would suggest waiting 3-4 years is because if you have good genes you can get pretty big natty and gear only has so much stimulus. You can take way less and get better results if you have a good basleine. its not necessary but for long term health its beneficial. I'm on 300 test and I look better than people on 500 or test and other anabolics.

I agree with u
u seem much more knowledgeable than I, and have more experience overall.
I haven't roided myself since I'm only 11 yrs old, but I'm planning to start roiding at 15/16.
What are ur thoughts?

 

[shmool]

I agree with u
u seem much more knowledgeable than I, and have more experience overall.
I haven't roided myself since I'm only 11 yrs old, but I'm planning to start roiding at 15/16.
What are ur thoughts?

HUH, 11!!?!???

 

[Micrognathic]

HUH, 11!!?!???

Unfortunately yes

 

[BR32]

I agree with u
u seem much more knowledgeable than I, and have more experience overall.
I haven't roided myself since I'm only 11 yrs old, but I'm planning to start roiding at 15/16.
What are ur thoughts?

You're 11...damn bro

I won't say don't roid at 15/16 but be cautious about using exogenous hormones during puberty.

Do a ton of research, watch more plates more dates

 

[Micrognathic]

You're 11...damn bro

I won't say don't roid at 15/16 but be cautious about using exogenous hormones during puberty.

Do a ton of research, watch more plates more dates

Thank you
I have already done lots of research, but obviously, there's still room for improvement.
Best of luck with all your future endeavors

 

[BR32]

Thank you
I have already done lots of research, but obviously, there's still room for improvement.
Best of luck with all your future endeavors

thanks man you too

 

[Codename]

I agree with u
u seem much more knowledgeable than I, and have more experience overall.
I haven't roided myself since I'm only 11 yrs old, but I'm planning to start roiding at 15/16.
What are ur thoughts?

11 y/o

Cant make this shit up

 

[Micrognathic]

11 y/o

Cant make this shit up

I fuckin knew this would happen
Stop making fun of me
I was just looking for help

 

[Manza]

I fuckin knew this would happen
Stop making fun of me
I was just looking for help

u got more knowledge than an average 11yo keep with it

 

[Micrognathic]

u got more knowledge than an average 11yo keep with it

Thank you

 

[Manza]

bump

 

[Manza]

bump

 

[Manza]

bump

 

[NorwoodVictim]

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If you can afford to get bloods and have ancilliaries then it is worth it.

 

[Zagro]

no you got more natty gains to make

wait to hop on until you've maxed out natty potential

this only takes 3 years if you train, eat and sleep well.

then hop on

Poopy logic just waste your time training natty theory just to use roids eitherway

 

[Infraorbitalis]

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“Should I start pinning?” *any photo* *any age* *any gender* Yes

 

[BR32]

Poopy logic just waste your time training natty theory just to use roids eitherway

Lol

think about the anabolic progression curve lil bro

If you max out natty gains in 2-3 years and then hop on with a great base you can use less gear over time and make better gains rather than someone who hopped on at 14 on 500 test with no base.

I'm gonna be able to maintain a sick cunt physique on 250 test.

I probably will go on to do bigger cycles at some point but even my bigger cycles can be smaller.

Harm reduction buddy.

 

[Zagro]

Lol

think about the anabolic progression curve lil bro

If you max out natty gains in 2-3 years and then hop on with a great base you can use less gear over time and make better gains rather than someone who hopped on at 14 on 500 test with no base.

I'm gonna be able to maintain a sick cunt physique on 250 test.

I probably will go on to do bigger cycles at some point but even my bigger cycles can be smaller.

Harm reduction buddy.

Yeah but i will catch up to your physique with tren in no time, and I’m just talking about the time aspect if you’re going to use roids either way “harm reduction” is a wrecked argument cause the harm will be done its just the question of when it will be done.

 

[BR32]

Yeah but i will catch up to your physique with tren in no time, and I’m just talking about the time aspect if you’re going to use roids either way “harm reduction” is a wrecked argument cause the harm will be done its just the question of when it will be done.

Sure you can catch up to my physique thats all well and good I have great genetics and I'm not tryna get super big. Look up Dorian Sacari.

Harm will be done eventually is a false equivalence.

There is a huge difference between running 250-300 test and 500 test 500 tren in terms of risk profiles.

500 test 500 tren is objectively much more harmful both now and down the line.

Damage thresholds exist too many systems tolerate stress up to a certain point and then fail non linearly.

Once you crossed the line you don't just go back to normal.

Tren also isn't just faster than test

Its not bioidentical you're not compressing the timeline you're changing the mechanism for how you acquire the muscle.

Another mistake people make is that they think that early gains=sustainable tissue when thats not true.

Muscle is built cumulatively over years and the compound that lets you stay productive the longest will always build more real contractile tissue by definition tren fails at that because it is so toxic to run long term.

All this to say that you should do what you want but don't convince yourself into thinking thats its the same as running lower doses when its not.

 

[ZyzzReincarnate]

You should start pinning your skull with semen bro

 

[Zagro]

Sure you can catch up to my physique thats all well and good I have great genetics and I'm not tryna get super big. Look up Dorian Sacari.

Harm will be done eventually is a false equivalence.

There is a huge difference between running 250-300 test and 500 test 500 tren in terms of risk profiles.

500 test 500 tren is objectively much more harmful both now and down the line.

Damage thresholds exist too many systems tolerate stress up to a certain point and then fail non linearly.

Once you crossed the line you don't just go back to normal.

Tren also isn't just faster than test

Its not bioidentical you're not compressing the timeline you're changing the mechanism for how you acquire the muscle.

Another mistake people make is that they think that early gains=sustainable tissue when thats not true.

Muscle is built cumulatively over years and the compound that lets you stay productive the longest will always build more real contractile tissue by definition tren fails at that because it is so toxic to run long term.

All this to say that you should do what you want but don't convince yourself into thinking thats its the same as running lower doses when its not.

Okay tell me where i compared tren and test lol you didn’t understand what i said once again.

Using 300 test now and using 300 test 2-3 years later, there will be no change in harm and it even gets worse as you age so theoretically an increase in harm could be possible. It’s just you wasting time reaching a “natural peak” which you can reach faster with roids.

Like no shit sherlock 500 test and 500 tren is obviously more harmful i don’t get why you’re talking like this whilst not reading my responses.

If you believe you get “super big” on roids its clear that you’ve never used them, they aren’t as magical as you might think they are and like you’re talking about near TRT level dosages.

 

[BR32]

Okay tell me where i compared tren and test lol you didn’t understand what i said once again.

Using 300 test now and using 300 test 2-3 years later, there will be no change in harm and it even gets worse as you age so theoretically an increase in harm could be possible. It’s just you wasting time reaching a “natural peak” which you can reach faster with roids.

Like no shit sherlock 500 test and 500 tren is obviously more harmful i don’t get why you’re talking like this whilst not reading my responses.

If you believe you get “super big” on roids its clear that you’ve never used them, they aren’t as magical as you might think they are and like you’re talking about near TRT level dosages.

I have used roids like I said I have good gear response genetics and I trained natty for longer, I can make good gains off 300 test.

I apologize I misread your previous reply.

The core issue I have with what you said is this "using 300 test now vs in 2-3 years, there will be be no change in harm"

This is false because harm from Anabolic steroids is cumulative and exposure dependent.

Biology does not care when you start it cares about total time exposed, dose, number of cycles, and how much recovery you allow.

Aging does not cancel out cumulative exposure, yes aging increases baseline risk but that doesn't make earlier exposure safer, it makes it worse.

Two scenarios

Person A

Starts at 15

runs moderate cycles for 10 years

Accumulates 10 years of supraphysiological androgen exposure

Person B

Starts at 18

runs the same cycles for 5 years

accumulates 5 years of exposure

Even tho person B is slightly older person A has doubled the exposure, more lipid years lost, more endothelial damage, more HPTA suppression, more CNS and BP stress.

Aging raises risk per unit exposure but total exposure is still more relevant

Reaching your natty peak isn't a wast of time

 

[Zagro]

I have used roids like I said I have good gear response genetics and I trained natty for longer, I can make good gains off 300 test.

I apologize I misread your previous reply.

The core issue I have with what you said is this "using 300 test now vs in 2-3 years, there will be be no change in harm"

This is false because harm from Anabolic steroids is cumulative and exposure dependent.

Biology does not care when you start it cares about total time exposed, dose, number of cycles, and how much recovery you allow.

Aging does not cancel out cumulative exposure, yes aging increases baseline risk but that doesn't make earlier exposure safer, it makes it worse.

Two scenarios

Person A

Starts at 15

runs moderate cycles for 10 years

Accumulates 10 years of supraphysiological androgen exposure

Person B

Starts at 18

runs the same cycles for 5 years

accumulates 5 years of exposure

Even tho person B is slightly older person A has doubled the exposure, more lipid years lost, more endothelial damage, more HPTA suppression, more CNS and BP stress.

Aging raises risk per unit exposure but total exposure is still more relevant

Reaching your natty peak isn't a wast of time

Bro if this is your point of course, you’re right no point in arguing

Our perspectives of “super big” are the same, that Dorian guys physique looks ideal af but not sure if you’d need 10 years on gear to reach a similar physique, like legit a few years at tops.

Blasting and cruising, the right ancillaries and just bloodwork every once in a while and you’re good to go imo, more could be done but like a decent stack with these precautions will get you to that physique easily with a pretty good benefit to side ratio.

Maintaining it is where i fail to understand the concept, do you need 300mg for years to come just to maintain that?

 

[BR32]

Bro if this is your point of course, you’re right no point in arguing

Our perspectives of “super big” are the same, that Dorian guys physique looks ideal af but not sure if you’d need 10 years on gear to reach a similar physique, like legit a few years at tops.

Blasting and cruising, the right ancillaries and just bloodwork every once in a while and you’re good to go imo, more could be done but like a decent stack with these precautions will get you to that physique easily with a pretty good benefit to side ratio.

Maintaining it is where i fail to understand the concept, do you need 300mg for years to come just to maintain that?

We have a similar mindset then

Here's where we differ I will able to maintain a dorian level physique on 120-150 test long term.

Genetics play the biggest role. You'll likely be able to maintain an excellent physique as well, but the higher the androgen exposure used to build muscle, the harder that muscle is to maintain when once doses are reduced (and doses must be reduced eventually) Muscle mass equilibrates to the relative hormonal environment it was built under so when you eventually come down to lower doses, protein synthesis and retention signaling drop and any tissue level of tissue built under higher levels of androgens will slowly be decreased.

Thats why I expect to be able to maintain a similar level of physique long term because the muscle was built under a relation moderate androgen environment that remains close enough to my intended maintenance dose keeping the tissue within a sustainable equilibrium.

There are some ways to cheat this tho...

 

[BR32]

Bro if this is your point of course, you’re right no point in arguing

Our perspectives of “super big” are the same, that Dorian guys physique looks ideal af but not sure if you’d need 10 years on gear to reach a similar physique, like legit a few years at tops.

Blasting and cruising, the right ancillaries and just bloodwork every once in a while and you’re good to go imo, more could be done but like a decent stack with these precautions will get you to that physique easily with a pretty good benefit to side ratio.

Maintaining it is where i fail to understand the concept, do you need 300mg for years to come just to maintain that?

Huge props btw for engaging with me in an academic and respectful manner it goes so far on .org

 

[King.epstein]

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Pin what ?? You idiot just pin heroin

 

[Zagro]

We have a similar mindset then

Here's where we differ I will able to maintain a dorian level physique on 120-150 test long term.

Genetics play the biggest role. You'll likely be able to maintain an excellent physique as well, but the higher the androgen exposure used to build muscle, the harder that muscle is to maintain when once doses are reduced (and doses must be reduced eventually) Muscle mass equilibrates to the relative hormonal environment it was built under so when you eventually come down to lower doses, protein synthesis and retention signaling drop and any tissue level of tissue built under higher levels of androgens will slowly be decreased.

Thats why I expect to be able to maintain a similar level of physique long term because the muscle was built under a relation moderate androgen environment that remains close enough to my intended maintenance dose keeping the tissue within a sustainable equilibrium.

There are some ways to cheat this tho...

Well I had no idea about this so thanks man, based on this I might be guaranteed to not keep my muscle mass after I hop off

 

[BR32]

Well I had no idea about this so thanks man, based on this I might be guaranteed to not keep my muscle mass after I hop off

It depends

What cycles have you been running and for how long?

 

[Zagro]

It depends

What cycles have you been running and for how long?

On and off since april high dose testosterone, high dose tren, high dose orals etc but physique doesn’t really bother me so forget about it thanks anyways

 

[BR32]

On and off since april high dose testosterone, high dose tren, high dose orals etc but physique doesn’t really bother me so forget about it thanks anyways

You def care about physique if you're on gear

Also you are fine

Switch to Test and EQ

 

[ICANNOTBECONTAINED]

Two scenarios

Person A

Starts at 15

runs moderate cycles for 10 years

Accumulates 10 years of supraphysiological androgen exposure

Person B

Starts at 18

runs the same cycles for 5 years

accumulates 5 years of exposure

Even tho person B is slightly older person A has doubled the exposure, more lipid years lost, more endothelial damage, more HPTA suppression, more CNS and BP stress.

Meanwhile person A can simply run proper ancillaries and have a better lipid profile and biomarkers/BP than the second person who didn't run any ancillaries.

Harm reduction is a meme as basically nothing ever happens even if you aren't running the proper meds.

"HPTA suppression" yeah, if you're pinning at 15 you're committing to basically being on for life. Of course oxidative stress and length of exposure is something to be considered aswell but I doubt somebody is perma blasting for 10 consecutive years. All you need is 2 hard years of blasting or less to reach your dream physique.

 

[BR32]

Meanwhile person A can simply run proper ancillaries and have a better lipid profile and biomarkers/BP than the second person who didn't run any ancillaries.

Harm reduction is a meme as basically nothing ever happens even if you aren't running the proper meds.

"HPTA suppression" yeah, if you're pinning at 15 you're committing to basically being on for life. Of course oxidative stress and length of exposure is something to be considered aswell but I doubt somebody is perma blasting for 10 consecutive years. All you need is 2 hard years of blasting or less to reach your dream physique.

You aren't gonna be able to maintain your dream physique after 2 hard years of blasting tho thats the issue.

The low and slow approach works better if you are patient and have the genetics for it.

But I get it I hear you and I understand your point fully.