Show me one pretty boy with bad lips - you cant

[Gestapo]

Hard to take you seriously when you say this isn’t a defined Cupid’s bow;

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But this is:


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Sorry for not phrasing it clearly, but yes, Cupid’s bow is a part of everyone’s lip anatomy (barring disorders). Larger upper lip just makes it more noticeable.

I’m not sure if I can find a source that says “large upper lip causes Cupid’s bow”. All I need is the plethora of writing and picture’s on Cupid’s bow that uses upper lip enlargement as the standard to achieve it. Just like you can’t find a source that repeats what you say causes a Cupid’s bow (not exactly sure what your theory for that is).

What is your basis for saying the cupid's bow is a result of a big upper lip? Pictures lol
You're just putting two things together without explaining the mechanics behind it.
As I said before if anything big upper lip and a cupid's bow is a case of correlation NOT causation.
Do you not understand correlation vs causation?

Just like you can’t find a source that repeats what you say causes a Cupid’s bow (not exactly sure what your theory for that is).

Don't try and flip this on me I'm not the one making bold claims about what causes what and in this case I don't know but I highly doubt that the cupid's bow is the result of a big upper lip because if that was the case gandy should have a non-existent or barely visible cupid's bow when in reality his cupid's bow looks like it was carved with a high intensity laser lmao. It's literally more defined and visible than many other people who have much bigger upper lips compared to his.

Big upper lip but cupid's bow not so visible or well shaped.

Big upper lip but cupid's bow is visible and well shaped.

Thin upper lip and cupid's bow is not so visible or well shaped.

Thin upper lip but cupid's bow is visible and well shaped.

Your statement "cupid's bow is a result of a big upper lip" is clearly false and unfounded.
If anything there might be a correlation but one does NOT directly cause the other.

Just admit you're wrong so you can continue to learn and grow.

 

[Gestapo]

You can’t have a thin upper lip and have a Cupid’s bow. You also can’t have a big upper lip and not have a Cupid’s bow. Cupid’s bow is a result of a big upper lip.

@RealSurgerymax can you confirm if this is true or not?

 

[MisterMercedes]

What is your basis for saying the cupid's bow is a result of a big upper lip? Pictures lol
You're just putting two things together without explaining the mechanics behind it.
As I said before if anything big upper lip and a cupid's bow is a case of correlation NOT causation.
Do you not understand correlation vs causation?


Don't try and flip this on me I'm not the one making bold claims about what causes what and in this case I don't know but I highly doubt that the cupid's bow is the result of a big upper lip because if that was the case gandy should have a non-existent or barely visible cupid's bow when in reality his cupid's bow looks like it was carved with a high intensity laser lmao. It's literally more defined and visible than many other people who have much bigger upper lips compared to his.

Big upper lip but not so prominent or well shaped cupid's bow
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Big upper lip but also prominent and well shaped cupid's bow
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Thin upper lip and not so prominent or well shaped cupid's bow
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Thin upper lip but also prominent and well shaped cupid's bow
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Your statement "cupid's bow is a result of a big upper lip" is clearly false and unfounded.
If anything there might be a correlation but one does NOT directly cause the other.

Just admit you're wrong so you can continue to learn and grow.

“Cupid’s bow is a result of a big upper lip” is something I’ve already said was phrased badly. Cupid’s bow is a part of everyone’s lip anatomy (barring disorders). Larger upper lip just makes it more noticeable. If you really need me to explain the mechanism, it’s because the larger the upper lip, the higher the Cupid’s bow portion of the lips (part that lines with the philtral columns) is in relation to the part closer to stomion.

Again, Gandy’s lips are not notably thin. The fact that he has a visible Cupid’s bow is not surprising. See example of Christian Bale for someone who has a very thin upper lip and thus not noticeable Cupid’s bow. Clooney is another good example you provided yourself.

I think the picture of the black guy without a defined Cupid’s bow is just a matter of distance distortion and also possibly lighting (one is a candid another is a modeling picture). For example:

Close up and with better lighting she has a visible Cupid’s bow. From farther away, her lip looks more like the guy you showed.

 

[Gestapo]

Cupid’s bow is a result of a big upper lip” is something I’ve already said was phrased badly.

It's not a matter of phrasing it's completely wrong. One does not directly cause the other.

Larger upper lip just makes it more noticeable. If you really need me to explain the mechanism, it’s because the larger the upper lip, the higher the Cupid’s bow portion of the lips (part that lines with the philtral columns) is in relation to the part closer to stomion.

How defined and well shaped the cupid's bow is has more to do with the relationship between the glogau klein points and labiale superior as well as the apex angles of the cupid's bow and the central angle of the cupids bow.

Only after this does the distance between the gk points and stomion come into play.

The cupid's bow itself has to be well shaped otherwise it doesn't fucking matter how big or large the upper lip is. That's why Chris brown's cupid bow looks like shit. Not because of distance distortion or lighting. Stop fucking coping.

He has a large ass upper lip but the cupid's bow itself is not well shaped or sharp and defined like gandy's cupid's bow.

 

[Soalian]

I don't get it, people here advertise small lower lips as muh masculine, but in practice good-looking maesthetic men, all have ful lower lips? Or am I missing something here?

 

[MisterMercedes]

It's not a matter of phrasing it's completely wrong. One does not directly cause the other.

How defined and well shaped the cupid's bow is has more to do with the relationship between the glogau klein points and labiale superior as well as the apex angles of the cupid's bow and the central angle of the cupids bow.

Only after this does the distance between the gk points and stomion come into play.

The cupid's bow itself has to be well shaped otherwise it doesn't fucking matter how big or large the upper lip is. That's why Chris brown's cupid bow looks like shit. Not because of distance distortion or lighting. Stop fucking coping.
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He has a large ass upper lip but the cupid's bow itself is not well shaped or sharp and defined like gandy's cupid's bow.
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Yeah the way it was phrased made it come out as an incorrect statement, which is why I rephrased it.

The relationships you’re talking about that form the Cupid’s bow is something everyone has barring disorders. Larger upper lip just makes it more noticeable as the Cupid’s bow part of the lips (part that lines with Phil tral columns) is higher and thus farther from the bottom of the lip and stomion.

Those additional pictures clearly show Chris Brown has a noticeable Cupid’s bow. And to use the very relationships/proportions you were mentioning contribute to Cupid’s bow: The distance between the Cupid’s bow part of their lips and the top of their upper lip between is exactly the same, which again proves my point: everyone barring disorders has Cupid’s bow, large upper lip just makes it more noticeable.

 

[MisterMercedes]

Yeah the way it was phrased made it come out as an incorrect statement, which is why I rephrased it.

The relationships you’re talking about that form the Cupid’s bow is something everyone has barring disorders. Larger upper lip just makes it more noticeable as the Cupid’s bow part of the lips (part that lines with Phil tral columns) is higher and thus farther from the bottom of the lip and stomion.

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Those additional pictures clearly show Chris Brown has a noticeable Cupid’s bow. And to use the very relationships/proportions you were mentioning contribute to Cupid’s bow: The distance between the Cupid’s bow part of their lips and the top of their upper lip between is exactly the same, which again proves my point: everyone barring disorders has Cupid’s bow, large upper lip just makes it more noticeable.

Another thing I would ask you to consider is philtrum width and its impact on Cupid’s bow.

Males, on average, have broader philtrums than women, which has been connected to males also having broader maxillary central incisors. This wider philtrum leads to a wider Cupid’s bow, which, in turn, makes the bow part of the lips seem more noticeable.

Example:

Meeks has a much broader philtrum and thus wider Cupid’s bow.

Comparing up close shots of Gandy and Brown, we find the same thing:

This would explain why some charts show Cupid’s show as a masculine or high fighting success trait.

 

[Tusseleif]

Literally so underrated still. You cant be a true pretty boy if you have shit thin or badly shaped lips. You can pull off masc looks but pretty boy? no way. Good lip proportions and at least average thickness or its over for your teen years srs. I see so many incel fags irl with autism tier upper lips its beyond over for them
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expressions like this legit look incel and extremely retarded if you try to to make them with thin lips jfl
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Morph thin lips on them and they will look truecel in these pics
Best example I could find is a girl does not matter. thin lips on young people = incel
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but on guys its just as bad
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people will think you have autism or some kind of disorder srs. better to have fillers that look obviously fake than this

Second pic is faceapped so hard

 

[Gestapo]

everyone barring disorders has Cupid’s bow, large upper lip just makes it more noticeable.

Ok this is clearly a very different statement than the statement I was arguing against.

My goal was to point out that you were wrong to say x (cupid's bow) is a result of y (big upper lip). I never questioned the existence of a cupid's bow on everyone barring disorders.

I did however talk about differences in the cupid's bow between two people. Studies have shown that there is variation in the central and apex angles of the cupid's bow among humans as well as variations in shape which I will get to later.

I believe you said the distance between the gk points and the l.s. is the same in gandy and brown but I'm not sure if you were talking about the vertical distance or horizontal. More importantly measuring this with pictures from google images will likely lead to inaccurate measurements due to various factors like head tilt, lens distortion, lip expression and more. You would literally have to bring them into a lab with professional equipment and also bring everything to scale before being able to get proper measurements.

That being said one thing can be concluded just with our naked eye: the difference in the morphology of their cupid's bows.
Brown clearly has a softer and less angular upper lip vermilion border contour. While gandy has a much more sharp and angular vermilion border contour.
Whether you think brown has a more prominent cupid's bow or not is up to personal opinion if you ask me.

To me gandy's is more prominent or eye catching because the very shape of the cupid's bow is clearly more defined almost as if it were photoshopped.

Also look at these 3

Brian whittaker has a vermilion border contour/cupid's bow that is very similar to gandy's vermilion border contour/cupid's bow.
As for upper lip size (looking with the naked eye) I would say Brian has a similar size to brown's upper lip or is closer to brown's size than he is to gandy's upper lip size but there is a clear variation or difference between the morphology of the upper lip vermilion border/cupid's bow between Brian and Brown despite both having large upper lips.

 

[MisterMercedes]

Ok this is clearly a very different statement than the statement I was arguing against.

My goal was to point out that you were wrong to say x (cupid's bow) is a result of y (big upper lip). I never questioned the existence of a cupid's bow on everyone barring disorders.

I did however talk about differences in the cupid's bow between two people. Studies have shown that there is variation in the central and apex angles of the cupid's bow among humans as well as variations in shape which I will get to later.

I believe you said the distance between the gk points and the l.s. is the same in gandy and brown but I'm not sure if you were talking about the vertical distance or horizontal. More importantly measuring this with pictures from google images will likely lead to inaccurate measurements due to various factors like head tilt, lens distortion, lip expression and more. You would literally have to bring them into a lab with professional equipment and also bring everything to scale before being able to get proper measurements.

That being said one thing can be concluded just with our naked eye: the difference in the morphology of their cupid's bows.
Brown clearly has a softer and less angular upper lip vermilion border contour. While gandy has a much more sharp and angular vermilion border contour.
Whether you think brown has a more prominent cupid's bow or not is up to personal opinion if you ask me.

To me gandy's is more prominent or eye catching because the very shape of the cupid's bow is clearly more defined almost as if it were photoshopped.

Also look at these 3
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Brian whittaker has a vermilion border contour/cupid's bow that is very similar to gandy's vermilion border contour/cupid's bow.
As for upper lip size (looking with the naked eye) I would say Brian has a similar size to brown's upper lip or is closer to brown's size than he is to gandy's upper lip size but there is a clear variation or difference between the morphology of the upper lip vermilion border/cupid's bow between Brian and Brown despite both having large upper lips.

I was referring to vertical distance.

Sorry, I’m going to go with my measurements versus your eye test. We use google images all the time to measure. It’s fairly accurate as long as you measure several different pictures to rule out the factors you mentioned.

I would love to see those studies you mentioned.

I’d recommend you read my reply about philtrum width and its role in Cupid’s bow, as it addresses your comparison of Gandy, Brown, and Whittaker. To sum it up, Gandy and Whittaker have broader philtrums (and thus wider Cupid’s bow) than Brown which may make their Cupid’s bow looks sharper or more defined.

 

[Gestapo]

This would explain why some charts show Cupid’s show as a masculine or high fighting success trait.

They all have a cupid's bow but the high aggressiveness face has the most angular and defined cupid's bow. Gandy and Brian are closer to the high aggressiveness cupid's bow and Brown is closer to the low to average aggressiveness cupid's bow.

 

[Gestapo]

your eye test

There is no eye test it's a visual observation and you clearly agree with my observation made with the eye based on your statement here:

Brown which may make their Cupid’s bow looks sharper or more defined.

Sorry, I’m going to go with my measurements

Tell this to any respected researcher and you will be laughed to scorn. Going along with inaccurate measurements and making claims based on those measurements is what leads to the spread of misinformation and confusion.

Anyway our discussion here is done. I think we both agreed that there is a difference in how defined and angular the cupid's bow appears among gandy brown and Brian.

The only reason I replied to this thread was because of your initial inaccurate statement and now that that is out of the way out discussion here is done.

 

[MisterMercedes]

View attachment 1061614
They all have a cupid's bow but the high aggressiveness face has the most angular and defined cupid's bow. Gandy and Brian are closer to the high aggressiveness cupid's bow and Brown is closer to the low to average aggressiveness cupid's bow.

And the high aggressiveness or sharp Cupid’s bow face has a broader philtrum/Cupid’s bow than the low aggressiveness face.

 

[MisterMercedes]

Tell this to any respected researcher and you will be laughed to scorn. Going along with inaccurate measurements and making claims based on those measurements is what leads to the spread of misinformation and confusion.

Anyway our discussion here is done. I think we both agreed that there is a difference in how defined and angular the cupid's bow appears among gandy brown and Brian.

The only reason I replied to this thread was because of your initial inaccurate statement and now that that is out of the way out discussion here is done.

I’m not arguing Brown’s Cupid’s bow doesn’t look less defined, I’m saying that that’s not caused by the cupid’s bow to middle of lip proportion as you suggested.

Sorry you have such a strong skepticism of measuring google images, but it’s laughable that you think making claims based off “plain to the naked eye” is more reliable than measuring images.

Unfortunate you’re ending the discussion before providing the studies you mentioned.