standard MSE with cortipuncture for adult males will soon become obsolete

[whiteissuperior]

I will just copy paste Richard Ting's words. He explains it better than I can

"Hi team, I like to share some newest technology and protocols on skeletal expansion with you all. I recently started my own skeletal expansion journey. I waited for a long time on this because the technology was simply not ready for case like mine. I'm a male in the 50s, thick bone and palatal cant with tori. Unless if I was willing to have surgical assist, expansion was out of the question. Until now. I have been doing Mid Palatal Piezo Corticotomy since Jan this year. So far, there is no fail case. Even on those cases that already failed cortipunctures. I stopped doing cortipunctures, because it's simply and completely outdated. Plus my sleeping and health condition was not going the right way that I preferred, I decided the technology is matured enough for me to start my own skeletal expansion journey. I went to the best orthodontist that I know and my classmates Dr Ilya Lipkin. Partners Lab(Djamil) custom made a skeletal expander with 8 TADs

. Dr Lipkin performed corticotomy and inserted the device. I flew back the same day from New Jersey to LA with only minor discomfort. The only thing that really bothers me was my tongue robbing against the device. Now I'm 1.5 mm opened with diastema. Many of my patients who had both cortipunctures and corticotomy told me that corticotomy bothered them a lot less than cortipunctures. Which was what I experienced myself, minimum discomfort. Dr Lipkin also mentioned that he has no fail cases with corticotomy. Both of us had stopped doing cortipunctures for a long time. I belive Mid Palatal Piezo Corticotomy is a game changer. With the addition of custom skeletal expander from Partners Lab for difficult cases like me. I believed Surgical Assist, DOME, EASE were obsolete! Except in very rare cases, more rare than male 50s with Palatal tori and cant. Imagining with less discomfort and potential instrument breakage than cortipunctures. Without the very invasive surgical process and zero down time. This is a revolution on maxillary skeletal expansion! I know both Dr Lipkin and I have course coming up on corticotomy. I'm excited to let you all know, that adult skeletal can be done predictably and with minimum discomfort. By the way, with only 1.5 mm expansion, I am able to breath comfortably with a flu and sore throat. I dream every night. My wife said I didn't snore except on the worse day of the flu. Corticotomy created a exciting future for maxillary skeletal expansion."

 

[whiteissuperior]

@tyronelite @AscendingHero can yall move this to looksmaxing section

 

[AscendingHero]

I will just copy paste Richard Ting's words. He explains it better than I can

"Hi team, I like to share some newest technology and protocols on skeletal expansion with you all. I recently started my own skeletal expansion journey. I waited for a long time on this because the technology was simply not ready for case like mine. I'm a male in the 50s, thick bone and palatal cant with tori. Unless if I was willing to have surgical assist, expansion was out of the question. Until now. I have been doing Mid Palatal Piezo Corticotomy since Jan this year. So far, there is no fail case. Even on those cases that already failed cortipunctures. I stopped doing cortipunctures, because it's simply and completely outdated. Plus my sleeping and health condition was not going the right way that I preferred, I decided the technology is matured enough for me to start my own skeletal expansion journey. I went to the best orthodontist that I know and my classmates Dr Ilya Lipkin. Partners Lab(Djamil) custom made a skeletal expander with 8 TADs

. Dr Lipkin performed corticotomy and inserted the device. I flew back the same day from New Jersey to LA with only minor discomfort. The only thing that really bothers me was my tongue robbing against the device. Now I'm 1.5 mm opened with diastema. Many of my patients who had both cortipunctures and corticotomy told me that corticotomy bothered them a lot less than cortipunctures. Which was what I experienced myself, minimum discomfort. Dr Lipkin also mentioned that he has no fail cases with corticotomy. Both of us had stopped doing cortipunctures for a long time. I belive Mid Palatal Piezo Corticotomy is a game changer. With the addition of custom skeletal expander from Partners Lab for difficult cases like me. I believed Surgical Assist, DOME, EASE were obsolete! Except in very rare cases, more rare than male 50s with Palatal tori and cant. Imagining with less discomfort and potential instrument breakage than cortipunctures. Without the very invasive surgical process and zero down time. This is a revolution on maxillary skeletal expansion! I know both Dr Lipkin and I have course coming up on corticotomy. I'm excited to let you all know, that adult skeletal can be done predictably and with minimum discomfort. By the way, with only 1.5 mm expansion, I am able to breath comfortably with a flu and sore throat. I dream every night. My wife said I didn't snore except on the worse day of the flu. Corticotomy created a exciting future for maxillary skeletal expansion."

Holy shit

does this mog MSE in its efficacy? i need to go into their group on several accounts, how did you get in the first place

@tyronelite move this thread

Since i got demoted, i cant deal with offtopic threads for the mean time

 

[whiteissuperior]

Holy shit

does this mog MSE in its efficacy? i need to go into their group on several accounts, how did you get in the first place

@tyronelite move this thread

Since i got demoted, i cant deal with offtopic threads for the mean time

for adult men yes. My understanding is that its meant to offset the high failure rates in adult men with MSE expansion due to bone density. WIll likely also allow more expansion with less assymmetry and ting even mentioned correction of cant as well.

If only they put this much energy into maxillary protraction tbh. Lefort 3 cant be the best solution for class 3 patients in 2022

 

[AscendingHero]

WIll likely also allow more expansion with less assymmetry and ting even mentioned correction of cant as well.

Fuark , imagine this affected orbitals too and hopefully like you see more symmetric expansion

If only they put this much energy into maxillary protraction tbh. Lefort 3 cant be the best solution for class 3 patients in 2022

10000%

n2 implant is the best thing on the market even if it's not fully out there

 

[OldRooster]

links please

 

[whiteissuperior]

links please

private orthodontist forum I weaseled my way into. i cant provide links. but won moon is there too

 

[OldRooster]

At the beginning of the pandemic I had a consult with an ortho about the DOME procedure ( actual operation performed by Stanley Liu of Stanford). Is this similar in function to that?

 

[Mongrelcel]

@NegativeNorwood

 

[NegativeNorwood]

@NegativeNorwood

Mirin' progress. He got quite a small amount of expansion tho. Surgical assist is not that bad, and a custom device like the Power Expander can expand up to 18mm depending on existing anatomy, so is kinda nice to know but may not be a good advance in palate expansion tbh.

OTOH, imagine something like this for bone protraction like @whiteissuperior and @AscendingHero said , but done to an accurate and predictable degree. It could replace implants, Lefort 3, etc. But it may take decades before we see something like that at such level. Very interesting.

 

[Deleted member 22126]

What should i get if im 17?

 

[ChristianChad]

At the beginning of the pandemic I had a consult with an ortho about the DOME procedure ( actual operation performed by Stanley Liu of Stanford). Is this similar in function to that?

i dont recommend DOME with Stanley Liu, lots of negative experiences reported online.

 

[Tasty17]

I will just copy paste Richard Ting's words. He explains it better than I can

"Hi team, I like to share some newest technology and protocols on skeletal expansion with you all. I recently started my own skeletal expansion journey. I waited for a long time on this because the technology was simply not ready for case like mine. I'm a male in the 50s, thick bone and palatal cant with tori. Unless if I was willing to have surgical assist, expansion was out of the question. Until now. I have been doing Mid Palatal Piezo Corticotomy since Jan this year. So far, there is no fail case. Even on those cases that already failed cortipunctures. I stopped doing cortipunctures, because it's simply and completely outdated. Plus my sleeping and health condition was not going the right way that I preferred, I decided the technology is matured enough for me to start my own skeletal expansion journey. I went to the best orthodontist that I know and my classmates Dr Ilya Lipkin. Partners Lab(Djamil) custom made a skeletal expander with 8 TADs

. Dr Lipkin performed corticotomy and inserted the device. I flew back the same day from New Jersey to LA with only minor discomfort. The only thing that really bothers me was my tongue robbing against the device. Now I'm 1.5 mm opened with diastema. Many of my patients who had both cortipunctures and corticotomy told me that corticotomy bothered them a lot less than cortipunctures. Which was what I experienced myself, minimum discomfort. Dr Lipkin also mentioned that he has no fail cases with corticotomy. Both of us had stopped doing cortipunctures for a long time. I belive Mid Palatal Piezo Corticotomy is a game changer. With the addition of custom skeletal expander from Partners Lab for difficult cases like me. I believed Surgical Assist, DOME, EASE were obsolete! Except in very rare cases, more rare than male 50s with Palatal tori and cant. Imagining with less discomfort and potential instrument breakage than cortipunctures. Without the very invasive surgical process and zero down time. This is a revolution on maxillary skeletal expansion! I know both Dr Lipkin and I have course coming up on corticotomy. I'm excited to let you all know, that adult skeletal can be done predictably and with minimum discomfort. By the way, with only 1.5 mm expansion, I am able to breath comfortably with a flu and sore throat. I dream every night. My wife said I didn't snore except on the worse day of the flu. Corticotomy created a exciting future for maxillary skeletal expansion."

Any scans available?

Does it cause a symmetrical split in the ANS and PNS?

Does it allow for symmetrical expansion?

Really hard to judge.

 

[ChristianChad]

I will just copy paste Richard Ting's words. He explains it better than I can

"Hi team, I like to share some newest technology and protocols on skeletal expansion with you all. I recently started my own skeletal expansion journey. I waited for a long time on this because the technology was simply not ready for case like mine. I'm a male in the 50s, thick bone and palatal cant with tori. Unless if I was willing to have surgical assist, expansion was out of the question. Until now. I have been doing Mid Palatal Piezo Corticotomy since Jan this year. So far, there is no fail case. Even on those cases that already failed cortipunctures. I stopped doing cortipunctures, because it's simply and completely outdated. Plus my sleeping and health condition was not going the right way that I preferred, I decided the technology is matured enough for me to start my own skeletal expansion journey. I went to the best orthodontist that I know and my classmates Dr Ilya Lipkin. Partners Lab(Djamil) custom made a skeletal expander with 8 TADs

. Dr Lipkin performed corticotomy and inserted the device. I flew back the same day from New Jersey to LA with only minor discomfort. The only thing that really bothers me was my tongue robbing against the device. Now I'm 1.5 mm opened with diastema. Many of my patients who had both cortipunctures and corticotomy told me that corticotomy bothered them a lot less than cortipunctures. Which was what I experienced myself, minimum discomfort. Dr Lipkin also mentioned that he has no fail cases with corticotomy. Both of us had stopped doing cortipunctures for a long time. I belive Mid Palatal Piezo Corticotomy is a game changer. With the addition of custom skeletal expander from Partners Lab for difficult cases like me. I believed Surgical Assist, DOME, EASE were obsolete! Except in very rare cases, more rare than male 50s with Palatal tori and cant. Imagining with less discomfort and potential instrument breakage than cortipunctures. Without the very invasive surgical process and zero down time. This is a revolution on maxillary skeletal expansion! I know both Dr Lipkin and I have course coming up on corticotomy. I'm excited to let you all know, that adult skeletal can be done predictably and with minimum discomfort. By the way, with only 1.5 mm expansion, I am able to breath comfortably with a flu and sore throat. I dream every night. My wife said I didn't snore except on the worse day of the flu. Corticotomy created a exciting future for maxillary skeletal expansion."

this info is useless. "newest protocol" of these (((orthodontists))) is use of Piezoelectric bone saw for Corticotomy, probably exclusively for Midpalatal suture.

this is good for them because they achieve this useless 1-3mm of expansion from overcoming the Midpalatal suture (easiest resistance point to overcome) more easily (this amount of expansion is all the patient is going to get if they dont address any of the other resistance points of the skull when doing expansion especially in male patients older then 16) so that it can be referred to as a "successful MSE" even though they did jackshit in practically. so in reality this is just an advancement in technology for jewish tricks

this info is useful if you can extend the age range for which MSE can be effective to younger people, and i dont mean Corticotomy to the MPS as this is useless, but Corticotomy to other resistance points like Horizontal Corticotomy along the Maxilla, Zygomatic buttress, Pterygomaxillary junction along with Surgical Assist to the MPS to potentially make it easier for male 13-15 year olds to achieve high quality expansion.

 

[ChristianChad]

Any scans available?

Does it cause a symmetrical split in the ANS and PNS?

Does it allow for symmetrical expansion?

Really hard to judge.

this is basically bare minimum you can do in hopes of reducing resistance to the device during expansion. the mse is not going to suddenly work because of this (by this i mean Corticotomy to the Midpalatal suture, even using Surgical Assist and fully cutting the MPS doesn't help much).

 

[Tasty17]

this info is useless. "newest protocol" of these (((orthodontists))) is use of Piezoelectric bone saw for Corticotomy, probably exclusively for Midpalatal suture.

this is good for them because they achieve this useless 1-3mm of expansion from overcoming the Midpalatal suture (easiest resistance point to overcome) more easily (this amount of expansion is all the patient is going to get if they dont address any of the other resistance points of the skull when doing expansion especially in male patients older then 16) so that it can be referred to as a "successful MSE" even though they did jackshit in practically. so in reality this is just an advancement in technology for jewish tricks

this info is useful if you can extend the age range for which MSE can be effective to younger people, and i dont mean Corticotomy to the MPS as this is useless, but Corticotomy to other resistance points like Horizontal Corticotomy along the Maxilla, Zygomatic buttress, Pterygomaxillary junction along with Surgical Assist to the MPS to potentially make it easier for male 13-15 year olds to achieve high quality expansion.

Seems like something that will never be solved.

 

[Tasty17]

this info is useless. "newest protocol" of these (((orthodontists))) is use of Piezoelectric bone saw for Corticotomy, probably exclusively for Midpalatal suture.

this is good for them because they achieve this useless 1-3mm of expansion from overcoming the Midpalatal suture (easiest resistance point to overcome) more easily (this amount of expansion is all the patient is going to get if they dont address any of the other resistance points of the skull when doing expansion especially in male patients older then 16) so that it can be referred to as a "successful MSE" even though they did jackshit in practically. so in reality this is just an advancement in technology for jewish tricks

this info is useful if you can extend the age range for which MSE can be effective to younger people, and i dont mean Corticotomy to the MPS as this is useless, but Corticotomy to other resistance points like Horizontal Corticotomy along the Maxilla, Zygomatic buttress, Pterygomaxillary junction along with Surgical Assist to the MPS to potentially make it easier for male 13-15 year olds to achieve high quality expansion.

Nice post. What do you think of facemasks installed on MSEs? I was thinking of getting MSE installed without any expansion, just to install the facemask on it to fix my underbite. In theory, moving the entire maxilla should be better than lefort 1.

 

[OldRooster]

this info is useless. "newest protocol" of these (((orthodontists))) is use of Piezoelectric bone saw for Corticotomy, probably exclusively for Midpalatal suture.

this is good for them because they achieve this useless 1-3mm of expansion from overcoming the Midpalatal suture (easiest resistance point to overcome) more easily (this amount of expansion is all the patient is going to get if they dont address any of the other resistance points of the skull when doing expansion especially in male patients older then 16) so that it can be referred to as a "successful MSE" even though they did jackshit in practically. so in reality this is just an advancement in technology for jewish tricks

this info is useful if you can extend the age range for which MSE can be effective to younger people, and i dont mean Corticotomy to the MPS as this is useless, but Corticotomy to other resistance points like Horizontal Corticotomy along the Maxilla, Zygomatic buttress, Pterygomaxillary junction along with Surgical Assist to the MPS to potentially make it easier for male 13-15 year olds to achieve high quality expansion.

Perhaps 1-3 mm expansion achieved will not noticablly enhance exterior appearance, but it could enhance breathing at night (my problem, and apparently the problem of the person describing their experience in the OP). Your thoughts?

 

[ChristianChad]

Perhaps 1-3 mm expansion achieved will not noticablly enhance exterior appearance, but it could enhance breathing at night (my problem, and apparently the problem of the person describing their experience in the OP). Your thoughts?

It'd be a waste of money because 1-3 mms of expansion is nothing for improving breathing, especially because you will get no expansion at the posterior nasal floor, and no type of expansion beyond the palate, like nasal expansion. I doubt that little expansion will give you any benefit, unless your only problem is that you need just a little more dental space for your tongue or something.

As I said I think this new protocol is mostly useful for them, so they can more consistently call the treatment a "successful MSE case" even though the treatment achieved practically nothing, just the most tiny gap between the front teeth you can imagine. This gives some perspective as this means the device and treatment is so weak it sometimes doesn't even overcome the Midpalatal suture which is the weakest suture in the entire body, now they weaken the MPS so they overcome it more consistently and a bit more easily so more of their treatments can be considered "successful MSE" cases as they achieved that very small diastema, even though any real knowledgeable non-foid patient knows those useless few millimeters of expansion that overcoming only the Midpalatal suture allows them (it fails to overcome any other points of resistance you encounter when expanding like the Maxilla itself, Zygomatic Buttress, Pterygomaxillary suture; Midpalatal Suture is literally easiest to overcome of them all) is useless no matter what your initial goal before the treatment is. Most people wouldn't know any better because patients are retarded... MSE providers are professional Jews.

 

[PURE ARYAN GENETICS]

It'd be a waste of money because 1-3 mms of expansion is nothing for improving breathing, especially because you will get no expansion at the posterior nasal floor, and no type of expansion beyond the palate, like nasal expansion. I doubt that little expansion will give you any benefit, unless your only problem is that you need just a little more dental space for your tongue or something.

As I said I think this new protocol is mostly useful for them, so they can more consistently call the treatment a "successful MSE case" even though the treatment achieved practically nothing, just the most tiny gap between the front teeth you can imagine. This gives some perspective as this means the device and treatment is so weak it sometimes doesn't even overcome the Midpalatal suture which is the weakest suture in the entire body, now they weaken the MPS so they overcome it more consistently and a bit more easily so more of their treatments can be considered "successful MSE" cases as they achieved that very small diastema, even though any real knowledgeable non-foid patient knows those useless few millimeters of expansion that overcoming only the Midpalatal suture allows them (it fails to overcome any other points of resistance you encounter when expanding like the Maxilla itself, Zygomatic Buttress, Pterygomaxillary suture; Midpalatal Suture is literally easiest to overcome of them all) is useless no matter what your initial goal before the treatment is. Most people wouldn't know any better because patients are retarded... MSE providers are professional Jews.

I am no expert but for the other sutures you have leverage. mse really only fails at the midpalatal no? I'm not saying it's an ideal treatment, far from it but at least it's an option for oldcels

Seems like something that will never be solved.

never say never mein neger

 

[nobodyspecial369]

I will just copy paste Richard Ting's words. He explains it better than I can

"Hi team, I like to share some newest technology and protocols on skeletal expansion with you all. I recently started my own skeletal expansion journey. I waited for a long time on this because the technology was simply not ready for case like mine. I'm a male in the 50s, thick bone and palatal cant with tori. Unless if I was willing to have surgical assist, expansion was out of the question. Until now. I have been doing Mid Palatal Piezo Corticotomy since Jan this year. So far, there is no fail case. Even on those cases that already failed cortipunctures. I stopped doing cortipunctures, because it's simply and completely outdated. Plus my sleeping and health condition was not going the right way that I preferred, I decided the technology is matured enough for me to start my own skeletal expansion journey. I went to the best orthodontist that I know and my classmates Dr Ilya Lipkin. Partners Lab(Djamil) custom made a skeletal expander with 8 TADs

. Dr Lipkin performed corticotomy and inserted the device. I flew back the same day from New Jersey to LA with only minor discomfort. The only thing that really bothers me was my tongue robbing against the device. Now I'm 1.5 mm opened with diastema. Many of my patients who had both cortipunctures and corticotomy told me that corticotomy bothered them a lot less than cortipunctures. Which was what I experienced myself, minimum discomfort. Dr Lipkin also mentioned that he has no fail cases with corticotomy. Both of us had stopped doing cortipunctures for a long time. I belive Mid Palatal Piezo Corticotomy is a game changer. With the addition of custom skeletal expander from Partners Lab for difficult cases like me. I believed Surgical Assist, DOME, EASE were obsolete! Except in very rare cases, more rare than male 50s with Palatal tori and cant. Imagining with less discomfort and potential instrument breakage than cortipunctures. Without the very invasive surgical process and zero down time. This is a revolution on maxillary skeletal expansion! I know both Dr Lipkin and I have course coming up on corticotomy. I'm excited to let you all know, that adult skeletal can be done predictably and with minimum discomfort. By the way, with only 1.5 mm expansion, I am able to breath comfortably with a flu and sore throat. I dream every night. My wife said I didn't snore except on the worse day of the flu. Corticotomy created a exciting future for maxillary skeletal expansion."

Thanks for sharing this. What do you have to say in response to @ChristianChad responses?

I am unsure if i should get MSE, was planning on getting it soon with Ting. Should I wait now... ugh this is annoying im not sure what the best route is, would appreciate some guidance

 

[ChristianChad]

Thanks for sharing this. What do you have to say in response to @ChristianChad responses?

I am unsure if i should get MSE, was planning on getting it soon with Ting. Should I wait now... ugh this is annoying im not sure what the best route is, would appreciate some guidance

It depends on what your goals are. I would do my research before spending money on any treatment

MSE is likely not going to achieve what you have in mind.

 

[thetaflow]

I am no expert but for the other sutures you have leverage.

What do you you mean by this?

 

[PURE ARYAN GENETICS]

What do you you mean by this?

 

[thetaflow]

I get you, because the site of force vector origination is not right at the suture, but more anterior. I thought of something else.

 

[DownUnderCopeAttack]

I did it. 39 year old male here, worked on me. got the split.