Steroids and peptides

[Nitroyx]

What do yall think abt doing a DHT derivative like masteron, cjc-1295 DAC and enclomiphene at 17? For facial bone growth of course

 

[Diyorldar]

That won't grow your facial bones

 

[Nitroyx]

That won't grow your facial bones

and why

 

[Diyorldar]

and why

Androgens don't reliably grow bone and if you do its not gonna be where you want.

Also you'd need a lot more than mast lol.

Additionally if you want to use gear test is king

 

[DrMd]

cjc-1295 should work but the rest is not for facial bones, check out some botb threads to find a good stack
steroids are for muscles, peptides can be for anything

 

[Nitroyx]

Androgens don't reliably grow bone and if you do its not gonna be where you want.

Also you'd need a lot more than mast lol.

Additionally if you want to use gear test is king

yes ur right that its not guaranteed but AR density in the mandible and brow ridge is well documented in literature and also androgen receptor stimulation in facal bone is DHT, not test, the problem wit htest is that it aromatizes heavily and u may think the solution is an ai but killing estrogen is bad because estrogen is heavily involved in osteoblasts which form bone

 

[Nitroyx]

cjc-1295 should work but the rest is not for facial bones, check out some botb threads to find a good stack
steroids are for muscles, peptides can be for anything

Partially agree on CJC-1295 but androgens act on any tissue with with androgen receptocs also facial bones the goal with masterone here is for its androgenic properties without aromatiozation im trying to get higher androgen receptor stimulation and combined with higher IGF 1 from cjc

 

[DrMd]

Partially agree on CJC-1295 but androgens act on any tissue with with androgen receptocs also facial bones the goal with masterone here is for its androgenic properties without aromatiozation im trying to get higher androgen receptor stimulation and combined with higher IGF 1 from cjc

yeah but again it can be done way more easier
androgen wont help you build bones, and cjc is only the start of a cycle
so look for better options and mark as solution

 

[Nitroyx]

yeah but again it can be done way more easier
androgen wont help you build bones, and cjc is only the start of a cycle
so look for better options and mark as solution

Whats the easier alternative specifically? Because most suggestions end up being test based which introduces aromatization and estrogen management and i agree cjc is only the start but that combined with a DHT derivative for ar stimulation and enclo those synergise together what alternative are you suggesting im open to better options

 

[DrMd]

Whats the easier alternative specifically? Because most suggestions end up being test based which introduces aromatization and estrogen management and i agree cjc is only the start but that combined with a DHT derivative for ar stimulation and enclo those synergise together what alternative are you suggesting im open to better options

hgh, test with ai, cjc, mk677
start with that and see how it goes
mark as solution

 

[Nitroyx]

hgh, test with ai, cjc, mk677
start with that and see how it goes
mark as solution

literally just said why test and ai is bad, also mk677 is good but bloats and makes hungry so kinda bad hgh is trash, too expensive and would literally have to blast 12-15 units also not much literacy on healthy teens

 

[ICL]

Whats the easier alternative specifically? Because most suggestions end up being test based which introduces aromatization and estrogen management and i agree cjc is only the start but that combined with a DHT derivative for ar stimulation and enclo those synergise together what alternative are you suggesting im open to better options

literally just said why test and ai is bad, also mk677 is good but bloats and makes hungry so kinda bad hgh is trash, too expensive and would literally have to blast 12-15 units also not much literacy on healthy teens

Partially agree on CJC-1295 but androgens act on any tissue with with androgen receptocs also facial bones the goal with masterone here is for its androgenic properties without aromatiozation im trying to get higher androgen receptor stimulation and combined with higher IGF 1 from cjc

If you're too stupid to be able to manage side effects that are very easily mitigated, you shouldn't be on gear

1. Balding can be prevented with topical anti androgens, specifically RU54881 which blocks both T and DHT. Besides, you're not gonna be balding at 18 over some androgens, and, if you're that paranoid, you can implement topical anti-androgens
2. Estrogen control is crucial when using testosterone, so, it doesn't make sense that you don't take testosterone because you're meant to control estrogen elevation and etc. You're being suboptimal because you're lazy
3. Masteron is WAY less potent than endogenous DHT in terms of androgenicity, you will "grow" no "bones", and you havent decided a dose yet. Masteron can be run for high doses, but, testosterone can be ran for even higher doses, it's fairly benign.
4. "Mk677 is good but bloats you and makes hungry so kinda bad hgh trash, too expesnive and would literally have to blast 12-15 ui also not much literacy on healthy teens"
Tf even is this?
Bro lists out the side effects of MK677 and says it's bad when he said it was good? Brotha. Mk677 has the same bloating side effect as CJC and HGH. Both are GH secretagogues. The hunger is not an issue and it's a bonus considering you have more room for consuming food which is important for nutrients and growth.
"hgh trash, too expesnive and would literally have to blast 12-15 ui also not much literacy on healthy teens"
Nigga this is even worse.
I'd somewhat understand why run GHRH when you cant afford HGH, but even is a shitty excuse, you can easily find 0.5$ per IU HGH which even if we applied your 15iu dosage [i will get into that later] so you'd be spending 7.5$ everyday. How much is that exactly? Literally not even half an hour of a minimum wage job... if you cant fund that, i don't have much to say.
"would literally have to blast 12-15 ui also not much literacy on healthy teens"
Brotha what does this even mean

How did you get to the conclusion that you need 12-15iu to get any effect on craniofacial development?

Do you even know what you're saying? HGH increases IGF1 massively. CJC only produces HGH and not even that much HGH, which then boosts igf1. So instead of the product, you take the production of the product and then call the product shit? How does that work?
You don'teven need 12-15iu, and by that logic CJC or any GHRH/GHRP is gonna need an EVEN HIGHER dosage, since cjc ever gonna come close to even that level of HGH produced. And besides, there are no studies for using "masteron for facial bones", what even is your logic, this whole scheme is in technicality illegal and you want information from studies? Give me whatever the fuck you're on

 

[DrMd]

literally just said why test and ai is bad, also mk677 is good but bloats and makes hungry so kinda bad hgh is trash, too expensive and would literally have to blast 12-15 units also not much literacy on healthy teens

then wtf do u want to inject?
test is ai is not bad, mk677 bloat is just a side effect that u can counter, and hgh is good

 

[ICL]

If you're too stupid to be able to manage side effects that are very easily mitigated, you shouldn't be on gear

1. Balding can be prevented with topical anti androgens, specifically RU54881 which blocks both T and DHT. Besides, you're not gonna be balding at 18 over some androgens, and, if you're that paranoid, you can implement topical anti-androgens
2. Estrogen control is crucial when using testosterone, so, it doesn't make sense that you don't take testosterone because you're meant to control estrogen elevation and etc. You're being suboptimal because you're lazy
3. Masteron is WAY less potent than endogenous DHT in terms of androgenicity, you will "grow" no "bones", and you havent decided a dose yet. Masteron can be run for high doses, but, testosterone can be ran for even higher doses, it's fairly benign.
4. "Mk677 is good but bloats you and makes hungry so kinda bad hgh trash, too expesnive and would literally have to blast 12-15 ui also not much literacy on healthy teens"
Tf even is this?
Bro lists out the side effects of MK677 and says it's bad when he said it was good? Brotha. Mk677 has the same bloating side effect as CJC and HGH. Both are GH secretagogues. The hunger is not an issue and it's a bonus considering you have more room for consuming food which is important for nutrients and growth.
"hgh trash, too expesnive and would literally have to blast 12-15 ui also not much literacy on healthy teens"
Nigga this is even worse.
I'd somewhat understand why run GHRH when you cant afford HGH, but even is a shitty excuse, you can easily find 0.5$ per IU HGH which even if we applied your 15iu dosage [i will get into that later] so you'd be spending 7.5$ everyday. How much is that exactly? Literally not even half an hour of a minimum wage job... if you cant fund that, i don't have much to say.
"would literally have to blast 12-15 ui also not much literacy on healthy teens"
Brotha what does this even mean

How did you get to the conclusion that you need 12-15iu to get any effect on craniofacial development?

Do you even know what you're saying? HGH increases IGF1 massively. CJC only produces HGH and not even that much HGH, which then boosts igf1. So instead of the product, you take the production of the product and then call the product shit? How does that work?
You don'teven need 12-15iu, and by that logic CJC or any GHRH/GHRP is gonna need an EVEN HIGHER dosage, since cjc ever gonna come close to even that level of HGH produced. And besides, there are no studies for using "masteron for facial bones", what even is your logic, this whole scheme is in technicality illegal and you want information from studies? Give me whatever the fuck you're on

Inb4 DNR as per usual w/ grays

 

[marus]

What do yall think abt doing a DHT derivative like masteron, cjc-1295 DAC and enclomiphene at 17? For facial bone growth of course

yeah that will not help with bone growth but still good effects def try it

 

[DrMd]

Inb4 DNR as per usual w/ grays

and then these niggas have the audacity to not rep u

 

[ICL]

and then these niggas have the audacity to not rep u

Bro repeats stuff he hears from this forum

Without even researching

If you reread what he wrote you will go insane

 

[DrMd]

Bro repeats stuff he hears from this forum

Without even researching

If you reread what he wrote you will go insane

ik i didint understand shit

 

[Nitroyx]

If you're too stupid to be able to manage side effects that are very easily mitigated, you shouldn't be on gear

1. Balding can be prevented with topical anti androgens, specifically RU54881 which blocks both T and DHT. Besides, you're not gonna be balding at 18 over some androgens, and, if you're that paranoid, you can implement topical anti-androgens
2. Estrogen control is crucial when using testosterone, so, it doesn't make sense that you don't take testosterone because you're meant to control estrogen elevation and etc. You're being suboptimal because you're lazy
3. Masteron is WAY less potent than endogenous DHT in terms of androgenicity, you will "grow" no "bones", and you havent decided a dose yet. Masteron can be run for high doses, but, testosterone can be ran for even higher doses, it's fairly benign.
4. "Mk677 is good but bloats you and makes hungry so kinda bad hgh trash, too expesnive and would literally have to blast 12-15 ui also not much literacy on healthy teens"
Tf even is this?
Bro lists out the side effects of MK677 and says it's bad when he said it was good? Brotha. Mk677 has the same bloating side effect as CJC and HGH. Both are GH secretagogues. The hunger is not an issue and it's a bonus considering you have more room for consuming food which is important for nutrients and growth.
"hgh trash, too expesnive and would literally have to blast 12-15 ui also not much literacy on healthy teens"
Nigga this is even worse.
I'd somewhat understand why run GHRH when you cant afford HGH, but even is a shitty excuse, you can easily find 0.5$ per IU HGH which even if we applied your 15iu dosage [i will get into that later] so you'd be spending 7.5$ everyday. How much is that exactly? Literally not even half an hour of a minimum wage job... if you cant fund that, i don't have much to say.
"would literally have to blast 12-15 ui also not much literacy on healthy teens"
Brotha what does this even mean

How did you get to the conclusion that you need 12-15iu to get any effect on craniofacial development?

Do you even know what you're saying? HGH increases IGF1 massively. CJC only produces HGH and not even that much HGH, which then boosts igf1. So instead of the product, you take the production of the product and then call the product shit? How does that work?
You don'teven need 12-15iu, and by that logic CJC or any GHRH/GHRP is gonna need an EVEN HIGHER dosage, since cjc ever gonna come close to even that level of HGH produced. And besides, there are no studies for using "masteron for facial bones", what even is your logic, this whole scheme is in technicality illegal and you want information from studies? Give me whatever the fuck you're on

fair point on the balding ill give u that BUT, again the core argument with test and an ai is that YES estrogen CAN be controlled with an AI but the point is estrogen has direct osteoblast activity via ERα receptors in bone. Crashing it with anastrozole or letrozole to manage test aromatization actively reduces bone mineralization now onto masteron vs endogenous dht yes masteron androgenicity is lower but the argument never was masteron is stronger than dht its that it provides exogenous androgenic stimulus without aromatioziation now onto hgh and cjc, look the argument is that first cjc produces pulsatile GH release which is physiologically cleaner than exogenous HGH it matters for receptor sensitivity and igf1 respone, hgh also supresses endogenous production at 17 with naturally high gh pulses a secreatagouge that amplifies existing pulses is smarter than replacing them completely, ill give u the point with the cost but now to the 12-15 iu argument durin puberty endogenous gh production is approx 40 µg/kg/day for a 75kg male thats roughly 3mg daily which converts to aprox 7-10 IU here my sources : PMC8440916, Frontiers in Endocrinology , Pubmed PMC5632578 , pubmed PMC10272984

by using gh secreatgouges i would literally amplify what my body already produces naturally and having more than pinning like 4-8 IUs what literally almost everyone recommends (ik u didnt say that but still )

 

[ICL]

fair point on the balding ill give u that BUT, again the core argument with test and an ai is that YES estrogen CAN be controlled with an AI but the point is estrogen has direct osteoblast activity via ERα receptors in bone. Crashing it with anastrozole or letrozole to manage test aromatization actively reduces bone mineralization

Then why would you crash it?
Simply keep it in check by measuring with bloodwork. It's not difficult to be optimal, and occasional mistakes are almost redundant. Picture this, people with aromatase deficiencies who have virtually 0 E2 only get osteoporosis after reaching early adulthood. How is your "crash" which is temporary gonna cause any issues?

now onto masteron vs endogenous dht yes masteron androgenicity is lower but the argument never was masteron is stronger than dht its that it provides exogenous androgenic stimulus without aromatioziation

So why still avoid controlling E2? You're being suboptimal on purpose, which is not a good thing. Besides, you will still need to inject testosterone since DHT/Masteron decreases testosterone via the negative feedback loop, and it will still cause a lot of side effects of having low T even though you have high DHT.

now onto hgh and cjc, look the argument is that first cjc produces pulsatile GH release which is physiologically cleaner than exogenous HGH it matters for receptor sensitivity and igf1 respone, hgh also supresses endogenous production at 17 with naturally high gh pulses a secreatagouge that amplifies existing pulses is smarter than replacing them completely, ill give u the point with the cost

The "cleaner release" is redundant, it may affect receptor desensitization but that is redundant since that takes years before taking effect, and, by the time facial bones fuse, you wouldn't have this desensitization and still have higher IGF1 than any guy on cjc. By suppressing is a peculiar staetment since HGH's half life is barely even an hour. By pinning it, you will barely replace natural GH secretion, it's not a complete replacement, it's barely partial.

o the 12-15 iu argument durin puberty endogenous gh production is approx 40 µg/kg/day for a 75kg male thats roughly 3mg daily which converts to aprox 7-10 IU here my sources

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34539573/ This is irrelevant, no important information, just an overview on GHD.

The Safety and Efficacy of Growth Hormone Secretagogues - PubMed

Further work is needed to better understand the long-term impact of GHSs on human anatomy and physiology and more specifically in the context of a diversity of clinical scenarios. Furthermore, the safety of these compounds with long-term use, including evaluation of cancer incidence and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Results: GHSs promote pulsatile release of GH that is subject to negative feedback and can prevent supra-therapeutic levels of GH and their sequelae. To date, few long-term, rigorously controlled studies have examined the efficacy and safety of GHSs, although GHSs might improve growth velocity in children, stimulate appetite, improve lean mass in wasting states and in obese individuals, decrease bone turnover, increase fat-free mass, and improve sleep. Available studies indicate that GHSs are well tolerated, with some concern for increases in blood glucose because of decreases in insulin sensitivity."
"GHSs promote pulsatile release of GH that is subject to negative feedback and can prevent supra-therapeutic levels of GH and their sequelae"
This is subject to the negative feedback loop, hence GH secretagougues replace your natural production more than GH. It avoid supra-therapeutic doses, hence, it's trying to use GHS to LIMIT having too-high IGF1 for whatever reason, that's against what we are talking about, we want supraphysiological levels.

Growth Hormone Secretagogues as Potential Therapeutic Agents to Restore Growth Hormone Secretion in Older Subjects to Those Observed in Young Adults - PubMed

The discovery of the growth hormone secretagogues (GHS) and the reverse pharmacology leading to the discovery of GHS receptor which enabled the identification of ghrelin as the natural ligand for the receptor have opened a new horizon in growth hormone (GH) physiology, pathophysiology, and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"The discovery of the growth hormone secretagogues (GHS) and the reverse pharmacology leading to the discovery of GHS receptor which enabled the identification of ghrelin as the natural ligand for the receptor have opened a new horizon in growth hormone (GH) physiology, pathophysiology, and therapeutics. Major progress has been made and we now have orally active GHS which are able to restore optimal pulsatile GH secretion which cannot be overstimulated as insulin-like growth factor feedback regulates the peaks to the optimum level. This enables GH to be restored in the older to levels normally seen in 20- to 30-year-old people; this leads to an increase in fat-free mass and redistribution of fat to the limbs. As these agents are ultimately approved and investigated further, it is likely that they will be shown to restore growth in children with moderate-to-mild GH deficiency; their benefits will be investigated in other indications such as nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, frailty, anemia, osteoporosis, and immune compromise in older subjects. The exquisite regulation of GH secretion reflects the importance of GH pulsatility in the regulation of somatotroph action of GH."

This one is on 20-30 year old people and recovering the sensitivity of the receptors. As i've said previously, HGH isn't gonna cause much desensitization in a year, and there are many protocols to avoid said desensitization.

hGH desensitization: Why you may not want to inject hGH everyday (heightmaxers GTFIH)

Prevention of Growth Deceleration after Withdrawal of Growth Hormone Therapy in Idiopathic Short Stature Meir Lampit, Ze’ev Hochberg. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Volume 87, Issue 8, 1 August 2002, Pages 3573–3577. Published 01 August 2002. The treatment of children with...

looksmax.org

Discussing methods of using HGH EOD instead of ED. Results speak for themselves, and realistic to your time frame of max 2 years.

Couldnt find anything with the epytomology of library, whatever study.

by using gh secreatgouges i would literally amplify what my body already produces naturally and having more than pinning like 4-8 IUs what literally almost everyone recommends (ik u didnt say that but still )

Yea I would recommend that higher end of the doses as well since it's above the average therapeutic dose, can lead you to supraphysiological ranges which gives better results than stayng therapeutic, a strategy for ISScels and GHDcels since their IGF1/GH genes are very fucked, all they do is bring back to healthy levels, not exceed to supraphysiological levels

 

[ropemaxxer00]

wont grow facial bones but stay tuned i will make a thread on this today

 

[Nitroyx]

Then why would you crash it?
Simply keep it in check by measuring with bloodwork. It's not difficult to be optimal, and occasional mistakes are almost redundant. Picture this, people with aromatase deficiencies who have virtually 0 E2 only get osteoporosis after reaching early adulthood. How is your "crash" which is temporary gonna cause any issues?

So why still avoid controlling E2? You're being suboptimal on purpose, which is not a good thing. Besides, you will still need to inject testosterone since DHT/Masteron decreases testosterone via the negative feedback loop, and it will still cause a lot of side effects of having low T even though you have high DHT.

The "cleaner release" is redundant, it may affect receptor desensitization but that is redundant since that takes years before taking effect, and, by the time facial bones fuse, you wouldn't have this desensitization and still have higher IGF1 than any guy on cjc. By suppressing is a peculiar staetment since HGH's half life is barely even an hour. By pinning it, you will barely replace natural GH secretion, it's not a complete replacement, it's barely partial.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34539573/ This is irrelevant, no important information, just an overview on GHD.

The Safety and Efficacy of Growth Hormone Secretagogues - PubMed

Further work is needed to better understand the long-term impact of GHSs on human anatomy and physiology and more specifically in the context of a diversity of clinical scenarios. Furthermore, the safety of these compounds with long-term use, including evaluation of cancer incidence and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Results: GHSs promote pulsatile release of GH that is subject to negative feedback and can prevent supra-therapeutic levels of GH and their sequelae. To date, few long-term, rigorously controlled studies have examined the efficacy and safety of GHSs, although GHSs might improve growth velocity in children, stimulate appetite, improve lean mass in wasting states and in obese individuals, decrease bone turnover, increase fat-free mass, and improve sleep. Available studies indicate that GHSs are well tolerated, with some concern for increases in blood glucose because of decreases in insulin sensitivity."
"GHSs promote pulsatile release of GH that is subject to negative feedback and can prevent supra-therapeutic levels of GH and their sequelae"
This is subject to the negative feedback loop, hence GH secretagougues replace your natural production more than GH. It avoid supra-therapeutic doses, hence, it's trying to use GHS to LIMIT having too-high IGF1 for whatever reason, that's against what we are talking about, we want supraphysiological levels.

Growth Hormone Secretagogues as Potential Therapeutic Agents to Restore Growth Hormone Secretion in Older Subjects to Those Observed in Young Adults - PubMed

The discovery of the growth hormone secretagogues (GHS) and the reverse pharmacology leading to the discovery of GHS receptor which enabled the identification of ghrelin as the natural ligand for the receptor have opened a new horizon in growth hormone (GH) physiology, pathophysiology, and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"The discovery of the growth hormone secretagogues (GHS) and the reverse pharmacology leading to the discovery of GHS receptor which enabled the identification of ghrelin as the natural ligand for the receptor have opened a new horizon in growth hormone (GH) physiology, pathophysiology, and therapeutics. Major progress has been made and we now have orally active GHS which are able to restore optimal pulsatile GH secretion which cannot be overstimulated as insulin-like growth factor feedback regulates the peaks to the optimum level. This enables GH to be restored in the older to levels normally seen in 20- to 30-year-old people; this leads to an increase in fat-free mass and redistribution of fat to the limbs. As these agents are ultimately approved and investigated further, it is likely that they will be shown to restore growth in children with moderate-to-mild GH deficiency; their benefits will be investigated in other indications such as nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, frailty, anemia, osteoporosis, and immune compromise in older subjects. The exquisite regulation of GH secretion reflects the importance of GH pulsatility in the regulation of somatotroph action of GH."

This one is on 20-30 year old people and recovering the sensitivity of the receptors. As i've said previously, HGH isn't gonna cause much desensitization in a year, and there are many protocols to avoid said desensitization.

hGH desensitization: Why you may not want to inject hGH everyday (heightmaxers GTFIH)

Prevention of Growth Deceleration after Withdrawal of Growth Hormone Therapy in Idiopathic Short Stature Meir Lampit, Ze’ev Hochberg. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Volume 87, Issue 8, 1 August 2002, Pages 3573–3577. Published 01 August 2002. The treatment of children with...

looksmax.org

Discussing methods of using HGH EOD instead of ED. Results speak for themselves, and realistic to your time frame of max 2 years.

Couldnt find anything with the epytomology of library, whatever study.

Yea I would recommend that higher end of the doses as well since it's above the average therapeutic dose, can lead you to supraphysiological ranges which gives better results than stayng therapeutic, a strategy for ISScels and GHDcels since their IGF1/GH genes are very fucked, all they do is bring back to healthy levels, not exceed to supraphysiological levels

you got some good points maybe estrogen crash was explained too bad and ur also right on the test suppresion yes test levels fall abd thats why u need a base and thats why i said WITH enclomiphene . ur also right on the hgh 1 hour halflife but look :

you actually made my argument for me you said GHS negative feedback prevents supraphysiological GH thats correct ut youre forgetting im17 with naturally high GH pulses already near supraphysiological range a secretagogue amplifying that existing output hits higher absolute levels than the same secretagogue in a 30 year old the ceiling is dramatically higher.

On HGH halflife yes its short, but exogenous HGH still suppresses GHRH release via IGF-1 negative feedback at the hypothalamus he suppression isnt via HGH itself staying in circulation it's bc of elevated IGF-1 signaling back

to the estrogen point fair point, optimal not crashed but that actually supports the original stack enclo keeps test up masterons anti estrogen effect is subtle not suppressive net result is optimal low range naturally without needing an AI at all your test and AI approach introduces an extra point that requires precise management my approac achieves the same endpoint passively

for the test base, enclo was always in the stack it maintaisn endogenous test via lh and fsh stimulation without exogenous test and without aromatiozation issues

 

[true.perso.chad]

What do yall think abt doing a DHT derivative like masteron, cjc-1295 DAC and enclomiphene at 17? For facial bone growth of course

that aint growing shit

 

[Nitroyx]

that aint growing shit

ok why?
also read the other arguments where i was replying to that one guy and actually use arguments not just say aint growing shit

 

[ICL]

you got some good points maybe estrogen crash was explained too bad and ur also right on the test suppresion yes test levels fall abd thats why u need a base and thats why i said WITH enclomiphene . ur also right on the hgh 1 hour halflife but look :

you actually made my argument for me you said GHS negative feedback prevents supraphysiological GH thats correct ut youre forgetting im17 with naturally high GH pulses already near supraphysiological range a secretagogue amplifying that existing output hits higher absolute levels than the same secretagogue in a 30 year old the ceiling is dramatically higher.

On HGH halflife yes its short, but exogenous HGH still suppresses GHRH release via IGF-1 negative feedback at the hypothalamus he suppression isnt via HGH itself staying in circulation it's bc of elevated IGF-1 signaling back

to the estrogen point fair point, optimal not crashed but that actually supports the original stack enclo keeps test up masterons anti estrogen effect is subtle not suppressive net result is optimal low range naturally without needing an AI at all your test and AI approach introduces an extra point that requires precise management my approac achieves the same endpoint passively

for the test base, enclo was always in the stack it maintaisn endogenous test via lh and fsh stimulation without exogenous test and without aromatiozation issues

fair enough then

 

[Nitroyx]

fair enough then

bro in the end we all just wanna look better