STOP using vitamin A derivatives, radio/laser treatment, before it's too late!

[ugly-but-optimistic]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC5723114/

vitamin A & laser treatment actually make the skin age more quickly!

aloe vera and patchouli have anti-aging effects (amongst others, but these are cheap and easy to find)

my new routine : dermaroll 2mm then apply aloe afterward, wait 2 hours, clean skin and apply patchouli, leave it on

rolling no more than once a week, but the others can be applied on the skin daily if desired

 

[Deleted member 13076]

So no more Retin A?

 

[gamma]

Dermaroller 2mm EVERYDAY??

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

Dermaroller 2mm EVERYDAY??

nope i should have clarified that. the post has been edited

maybe dermaroller once a week or fortnight, depending on how bad the wrinkles etc are

once things get better, maybe just roll once every 3 months.. just use commonsense i guess

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

So no more Retin A?

yes any tretinoin, retinol, etc. anything based on vitamin A is bad for the skin in the long term.

 

[gamma]

I see old youtubers who used retin a for 20+ years, having great skin though
How so

 

[Deleted member 13076]

yes any tretinoin, retinol, etc. anything based on vitamin A is bad for the skin in the long term.

This is false, how do explain people who are in their 60s and looks 20 years younger thanks to Retinol

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

I see old youtubers who used retin a for 20+ years, having great skin though
How so

as with all things there could be modifiers

so maybe they have good genetics, or they used something else that counteracted the vitamin A. who knows ?

but the results in the paper were logical and their suggestions for antiinflammatory substances are sound

if you can beat inflammation and support collagen, your face will always look much younger

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

This is false, how do explain people who are in their 60s and looks 20 years younger thanks to Retinol

i'd rather take the counsel of scientists over people who are shills for skincare companies. maybe its silly i know

but the paper shows their reasoning in great detail and i could not find fault with any of it .......

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

as with all things, we need to read the science. this forum is good but what is the source of truth ?

a thousand people on isntagram can proclaim something boldly which is then thoroughly destroyed by a few observations or inferences based on real science ...

The increase of skin stiffness aimed by some accepted anti-aging approaches is not fullfilled in reality. For example, regular long-term topical application of the 0.05% retinaldehyde reduced the skin stiffness by approximately 24% with simultaneous increase of its elasticity by 4%.1 Application of supra-physiological temperatures (which is typical for antiaging procedures based on application of the radio-frequency currents) was shown to reduce the skin stiffness by about 30% at 45°C and by about 50% at 50°C.

i think many skincare products give the temporary impression that the skin is tighter. for example, collagen is too big to penerate the dermal layers but its application makes skin feel tighter because it draws skin together as it dries.

but if you fix the underlying issue then you don't need to apply product every time you leave the house

 

[damnit]

so what's your response on how dermarolling causes microtears compared to a good pen device like derminator, especially at 2 mm.

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

i doubt that it does. the needles move down into the skin, and yes there could be lateral movement too, but the skin is elastic.

only the puncture of the needle itself causes damage to the skin

but i've not researched it in detail so happy to be proven wrong if there's a source that contradicts my suspicion

even if it tears the skin so what ? we're already chopping up the skin to a massive extent. some further incidental damage wouldn't be an issue afaik

 

[bysontallou]

Does this also apply to stuff like beta carotene and lycopene?

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

not afaik. the best approach would be to do research on anything you're already using

google stuff and trust info from places like ncbi, pubmed, healthline, any medical or cosmetic journal

BUT do not rely on info from youtube, instagram, or friends who are well meaning but lack scientific training ...

idiots on social media like to make shit up or arrive at conclusions using broken logic

at the very least their stuff doesnt work & just wastes time n money.. at worst it causes damage that might be difficult to reverse

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

to make things worse a lot of these chemicals behave in unpredictable or counterintuitive ways

vitamins all good ? no, vitamin A sucks, vitamin B3 might be ok ?

use XYZ in small concentration and its great for scar tissue or resurfacing, use too much or too often and it damages the skin

some other thing ABC is awesome but doesn't penetrate the skin at all... needles required

or what about QQQ1 and QQQ2 ? one is water soluble and the other oil soluble. their bioavailabilities are very different

etc etc etc

 

[ifyouwannabemylover]

that's one study?

and no outcome data, just constructing theories

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

you could use it short term, if you have significant photo damage

Retinoids in the treatment of skin aging: an overview of clinical efficacy and safety

Aging of skin is an intricate biological process consisting of two types. While intrinsic or chronological aging is an inevitable process, photoaging involves the premature aging of skin occurring due to cumulative exposure to ultraviolet radiation. Chronological ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

but long term an oral administration would be better

if you are somehow deficient (i.e. don't eat food)

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

also lets approach it from pure logic, given things we already know are true :

it causes shedding (greatly increased cell turnover)
>>
cells get older after each division
>>
long term use implies you will look OLDER not younger

that's why i would advise people, for any activity that causes turnover :

has it worked ? you look better ?

STOP and wait until you look bad again

 

[Gonthar]

I see old youtubers who used retin a for 20+ years, having great skin though
How so

They are like those fake natty bodybuilders who claim their body is completely natural and only the result of training and eating well - they get many views and the opportunity to sell their stuff.

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

They are like those fake natty bodybuilders who claim their body is completely natural and only the result of training and eating well - they get many views and the opportunity to sell their stuff.

correct. its like those chicks who buy shit from ' influencers ' on insta. jesus save us

 

[TITUS]

Where does it say in the article that "vitamin A & laser treatment " will age you, are you assuming they will rkt your fat?
2mm is too deep and once a week that deep is too often.
Greycels must die.

 

[Edgar]

Studies say diet has nothing to do with acne. Yeah right, I get a pimple when even thinking about eating cheese

 

[thecaste]

shit thread

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

it looks like some of you are heavily invested in a mindset

the smart man when confronted with new evidence, changes his mind

the fool will rationalise and keep doing what he was doing before

which are you ?

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

Studies say diet has nothing to do with acne. Yeah right, I get a pimple when even thinking about eating cheese

which one

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

Where does it say in the article that "vitamin A & laser treatment " will age you, are you assuming they will rkt your fat?
2mm is too deep and once a week that deep is too often.
Greycels must die.

its right there in the paper. not just fat but tightness and elasticity of skin, and you can see it in other studies that they referred to

of course, these scientists who have no commerical interest are just telling people that so that olay will make less money

2mm roller is maybe 1mm deep on me at least. i do it weekly for a couple of months and then leave it for .. hmm .. 5 years

 

[Deleted member 7073]

Nothing has improved my skin as well as Retin A. Although I think it’s possible these products anti age in the short term but mess u up long term

 

[Edgar]

which one

All of them. At least when I had really severe acne and I googled this shit every study said there is no conclusive evidence of a correlation between diet and acne. Ofc you still need accutane for severe acne even with adjusting your diet, but to say there is no correlation there is just plain wrong

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

All of them. At least when I had really severe acne and I googled this shit every study said there is no conclusive evidence of a correlation between diet and acne. Ofc you still need accutane for severe acne even with adjusting your diet, but to say there is no correlation there is just plain wrong

you could be right, i've never researched it. but if you found a diet that helps that's great. perhaps the studies you looked at had flawed methodology. you can find out but usually need a background in statistics...

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

Nothing has improved my skin as well as Retin A. Although I think it’s possible these products anti age in the short term but mess u up long term

OK leave it now that its good. it wont instantly revert. you might be surprised, it could take years

and in the meantime use things that aren't CYTOTOXIC

 

[thecaste]

it looks like some of you are heavily invested in a mindset

the smart man when confronted with new evidence, changes his mind

the fool will rationalise and keep doing what he was doing before

which are you ?

It is literally one study, which is just stating assumptions and theories, nothing more. If you are changing your mind on one of the most well-researched skincare ingredients because of such a "study" kys.

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

It is literally one study, which is just stating assumptions and theories, nothing more. If you are changing your mind on one of the most well-researched skincare ingredients because of such a "study" kys.

like i said some of these things are fine in the short term. the longest study i could find was a cohort comparison over 2 years..

if someone is 30 years old and starts on it, they look 25 for a while. but when they're 40 will they look 50 ?

reminds me of a saying :

" from which place ye come, that taketh no tariff but delivereth bounty ? " LOL

 

[Edgar]

but if you found a diet that helps that's great

It is basically no/very little dairy and zero sodas for the most part. I only drink coke zero jfl

perhaps the studies you looked at had flawed methodolog

Yeah I didn't look too much into it back cuz I was 15 and didn't know shit about stats or anything.

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

It is basically no/very little dairy and zero sodas for the most part. I only drink coke zero jfl


Yeah I didn't look too much into it back cuz I was 15 and didn't know shit about stats or anything.

sounds good. careful with the artificial sweeteners though. they can cause insulin resistance long term

see the quote above re tariff / bounty

 

[PURE ARYAN GENETICS]

i'd rather take the counsel of scientists over people who are shills for skincare companies. maybe its silly i know

but the paper shows their reasoning in great detail and i could not find fault with any of it .......

jfl "scientists" are the biggest shills

 

[sorrowfulsad]

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

jfl "scientists" are the biggest shills

you can easily discover if a paper was sponsored by johnson & johnson, astra zenica, etc etc etc

and if it isn't then you couldn't find less biased information anywhere really

 

[PURE ARYAN GENETICS]

you can easily discover if a paper was sponsored by johnson & johnson, astra zenica, etc etc etc

and if it isn't then you couldn't find less biased information anywhere really

that's funny you still trust the system

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

that's funny you still trust the system

i try to look at someone's motivation as the primary method of analysing their behaviour

these scientists are saying vitamin A long term is bad. what do they stand to gain ? nothing really. in fact it might be harder for them to get a research grant from industry in future. so i would trust what they say.

but someone on youtube says " yeah here's my skin it looks great !! oh by the way, i just found this great product a few weeks ago.. it's called XYZ serum !! here's their website URL .. "

you can see a difference there, yes ?

 

[Foxhole]

This paper is bullshit, they say

For example, regular long-term topical application of the 0.05% retinaldehyde reduced the skin stiffness by approximately 24% with simultaneous increase of its elasticity by 4%

so it means that it does shit for agin skin, to say this they used this reference https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10473959/
if we look a bit in depth of this publish we can see a quote that is interesting

Compared to the control group, retinaldehyde treatment induced a significant increase in epidermal thickness of the temple, as well as in cutaneous elasticity (p < 0. 01). Similarly, retinaldehyde treatment tended to increase dermal thickness and reduce cutaneous stiffness, but no statistical difference could be observed between the two groups.

see no statistical difference could be observerd, + they were only 40 people in this test, cut in one groupe of 21 and one of 19.

TLDR : fake shit, there is 1000 paper that say that vitamin A is good and the only one that say the contrary is bullshit.

 

[Seth Walsh]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC5723114/

vitamin A & laser treatment actually make the skin age more quickly!

aloe vera and patchouli have anti-aging effects (amongst others, but these are cheap and easy to find)

my new routine : dermaroll 2mm then apply aloe afterward, wait 2 hours, clean skin and apply patchouli, leave it on

rolling no more than once a week, but the others can be applied on the skin daily if desired

Retin-A does NOT make the skin age quicker.

Misconceptions: increased photosensitivty to UV rays? Wear SPF.

Increased skin cell turnover? =! Sped up ageing ..

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

this is maximum copage

you expect to inflame the skin, strip layers off and kill cells prematurely long term, without any repercussions ?

i think some people are using vitamin A very regularly, hence their defense of it, and it's to their detriment

why keep using something after your skin improves ? put it back on the shelf for awhile

or yeah you can use it every day until your skin peels back to the stem cell bedrock, sounds great

Most dermatologists agree this is the one thing that can reverse signs of ageing — but one doctor says we're being led into the unknown

Mervyn Patterson, a cosmetic doctor, told Business Insider that retinol 'undoubtedly makes the skin smoother,' but that products are being marketed in an irresponsible way. He shared a number of reasons to be wary of retinol overuse.

www.businessinsider.com.au

https://pdxscholar.library.pdx.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2042&context=honorstheses

this also applies to :

- dermarolling
- chemical peel
- some acids (especially pH < 4)
- enzyme masks (bromelain, papain)

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

Increased skin cell turnover? =! Sped up ageing ..

does logic work differently in your galaxy ? haha

 

[PURE ARYAN GENETICS]

i try to look at someone's motivation as the primary method of analysing their behaviour

these scientists are saying vitamin A long term is bad. what do they stand to gain ? nothing really. in fact it might be harder for them to get a research grant from industry in future. so i would trust what they say.

but someone on youtube says " yeah here's my skin it looks great !! oh by the way, i just found this great product a few weeks ago.. it's called XYZ serum !! here's their website URL .. "

you can see a difference there, yes ?

sure that's a good mindset and studies can be good but it's very misguided at best to put too much trust in them or even favor them over other opinions because they're 'professionals'. of course foids or normalfags shilling some garbage like chisell in a tiktok video is giga cringe but I assume that doesn't need to be said.

I mean the whole medical industry is corrupt and incompetent as fuck, I wouldn't put too much trust in them. they tried to cockblock my nigga john every time they could and they succeeded for 40 years until his son got his stuff on the internet. and 'professions' like speech therapists actually have no fucking clue what they're doing. like less than zero clue. nobody can do a tongue tie release. nobody expands palates. the modern world is simply irreparably fucked. I mean how many studies were there saying smoking or asbestos is actually not harmful?

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

yeah its true, some of them are incompetent

so what do we do in the absence of a well-designed multi-decade study ?

just rely on inference from things we already know

every time the cells are taken off or killed, they are replaced from below. the stem cells

every time stem cells divide they get older. this is a simplification but basically accurate for our purposes

so i'm just saying, we should limit the use of treatments that cause the cells to cycle early

 

[OOGABOOGA]

Derma needling makes me break out badly. One needling session = two weeks of acne

and yes the needles are clean I’ve used a fresh cartridge every time

 

[ugly-but-optimistic]

Derma needling makes me break out badly. One needling session = two weeks of acne

and yes the needles are clean I’ve used a fresh cartridge every time

Do Derma Rollers Really Work?

The short answer? It depends on what you're using and why you're using it. Here's how to maximize your DIY results.

www.healthline.com

maybe the bacteria spread when you do it

make sure your skin is cleaned off with something like chlorhexidine

don't use alcohol. what is your aftercare ?

 

[TITUS]

its right there in the paper. not just fat but tightness and elasticity of skin, and you can see it in other studies that they referred to

of course, these scientists who have no commerical interest are just telling people that so that olay will make less money

2mm roller is maybe 1mm deep on me at least. i do it weekly for a couple of months and then leave it for .. hmm .. 5 years

Copy here the quotes i find none...

 

[TITUS]

https://pdxscholar.library.pdx.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2042&context=honorstheses

This states retinol is good, just don't use it on pregnant women and don't overdo it.
You are seriously retarded, i hope nobody is taking any of your retarded greycel advice.

 

[lasthope]

cope op

also you shouldnt overuse retin-a start with 2-3xweek and then maybe ever other day

if you get redness and shit its a bad sign