SUGAR, IGF-1, MTOR - optimising glucose for max growth? INFO

[HEXEDRONE]

SUGAR, IGF-1, MTOR​

sugar diet, pablo diet, etc etc.

HERES THE INFO DUMP

HOW DOES IGF-1 WORK ALONGSIDE INSULIN?​

1. Insulin indirectly increases IGF-1 via GH (Growth Hormone) signalling​

• GH stimulates IGF-1, mostly in the liver
• GH needs insulin to do this
• In low-insulin states (fasting, starvation), GH goes up, but IGF-1 drops

2. Insulin directly supports IGF-1 production (even independent of GH)​

• Even without GH, insulin increases:
  • IGF-1 mRNA expression
  • IGF-binding proteins (like IGFBP-3)
• Most active in high-carb, fed states

3. Insulin modulates IGF-1 activity​

• It raises IGFBP-3 and ALS (acid-labile subunit)
• These stabilise and carry IGF-1 in the blood
• More usable IGF-1 circulating = better growth signalling

MTOR VS AMPK​

*	mTOR (mechanistic Target of Rapamycin)	AMPK (AMP-activated Protein Kinase)
Triggers	Nutrients (protein, leucine), insulin, IGF-1, high energy (ATP)	Low energy (AMP:ATP ↑), fasting, exercise, metformin, berberine
Function	Growth, anabolism, synthesis	Catabolism, cleanup
Brain	Enhances neuroplasticity (but too much is excitotoxicity)	Promotes neuroprotection, autophagy, anti-aging
Muscle	Promotes hypertrophy	Makes more mitochondria, endurance
Fat	Promotes lipogenesis	Promotes lipolysis
Cell Metabolism	↑ protein & lipid synthesis, ↓ autophagy	↓ protein synthesis, ↑ autophagy, ↑ glucose uptake
Link	AMPK inhibits mTOR	mTOR blocks some AMPK-induced autophagy
Skin	oily skin, acne	clearer skin, less inflammation

• Therefore, when optimising growth, you have to consider the tradeoffs
• Activating mTOR (like through sugar) provides growth, but higher risk of cancer, acne, and ageing

Note tall people

mTOR Overactivation Risks:

• ↓ Autophagy, ↑ Cellular junk
• ↑ Cancer risk
• ↑ Acne, sebum production
• ↓ Insulin sensitivity (if chronic)

LEUCINE?​

https://doi.org/10.1152/ajpendo.00525.2011

This study says that leucine activates mTOR better than sugar, but they also mentioned how glucose is almost necessary to maximise leucine intake for activation of mTOR pathways and growth. High protein diet with almost no carbs will NOT give you sufficient growth, therefore.

Spoiler: EXTRACT FROM STUDY

Experiments using somatostatin, which prevents secretion of a number of growth factors, including insulin, suppressed leucine-induced phosphorylation of S6K1 and 4E-BP1, suggesting that the response is partially modulated by growth factors. Furthermore, in diabetic rats, muscle protein synthesis is thought to be reduced by ∼65% compared with starved nondiabetic controls. Leucine supplementation caused partial recovery of this; however, muscle protein synthesis was still abnormally low, supporting the notion that insulin is required for a maximal response to leucine

Glucose helps LARS1 detect leucine and activate mTORC1, but only if there’s enough energy in the cell

Lehman & Abraham, 2020

CARBS FOR IGF 1 DIET​

In adult female pigs, dextrose and sucrose combined with lactose stimulated higher insulin responses (therefore igf 1 production) compared to control diets

(Wientjes et al., 2012)

In growing thoroughbreds (horses), a sugar and starch-rich diet gave higher plasma IGF-1 levels during rapid growth phases compared to a fat and fibre-rich diet

(Staniar et al., 2007)

Prepubertal female cows fed lots of starch and sugar showed increased serum IGF-1 concentrations to spike growth

(Nosbush et al., 1996)

Sugar supplementation in growth retarded calves led to elevated blood glucose and IGF-1 levels, and improved overall growth performance

(Sato et al., 2010)

Sugar → Insulin ↑ → IGF-1 ↑ → Growth ↑

• This effect is most prominent during rapid growth phases or growth-delayed states in animal models

DIABETES​

Low IGF-1 levels are shown to increase the risk of developing type 2 diabetes and insulin resistance. On the other hand, a high IGF-1 bioavailability in people with diabetes may delay or prevent diabetes-associated complications, as it improves impaired small blood vessel function - wiki

Fructose may induce inflammation and increase cortisol production, leading to insulin resistance

(DiNicolantonio et al., 2017)

Chronic cortisol overproduction could be a cause of type 2 diabetes, as numerous interventions that decrease cortisol show antidiabetic effects, while factors increasing cortisol are associated with type 2 diabetes development

(Isaza, 2019)

• Eat glucose for better spikes in insulin to promote dopamine secretion and reducing cortisol (more near bottom of thread)
• Minimise cortisol through phosphatidylserine, GABAergic supplements, and don’t let blood sugar drop too low or too often as it can spike it
• Possibly cycle mTOR with AMPK activation for cell clean up and regeneration

CANCER​

Sugar consumption does not directly cause cancer. Cancer Council Australia have stated that "there is no evidence that consuming sugar makes cancer cells grow faster or cause cancer". There is an indirect relationship between sugar consumption and obesity-related cancers through the increased risk of excess body weight - wiki

Some possible risks of cancer can occur from mTOR overactivation and excess cell growth, however

GLUCOSE vs FRUCTOSE
​

Prioritise glucose over fructose to maximise spikes

FRUCTOSE

• It doesn’t raise blood glucose much, so no major insulin spike
• Fructose goes straight to your liver and gets turned into fat and other stuff instead of being used for energy like glucose (bypasses glycolysis)
• Raises cortisol in excess, increases AMPK short term due to AMP:ATP ratio going up

GLUCOSE

• Also, glucose can spike dopamine short-term and benefit hormones, and that spike is greater than from fructose​
• Activates D1 receptors (beneficial for mTOR and other hormones, including GH and Test)​
• Can suppress D2 autoreceptors (even more dopamine release)
• Glucose → insulin ↑ → dopamine ↑ → GH ↑ → IGF-1 ↑​
• Check this thread for more info based on dopamine and test/GH:​

Spoiler: DOPAMINE, GABA, TEST & GH

Dopamine, GABA, Test & GH

reupload needed formatting + new info D O P A M I N E Dopamine is an essential neurotransmitter that greatly benefits us in terms of survival through its effect on motivation. However, it also has effects on testosterone and growth hormones. LOCATIONS WHERE DOPAMINE HITS Hypothalamus...

looksmax.org

Spoiler: BASIC GLUCOSE VS FRUCTOSE TABLE

Sugar Type	Glucose	Fructose	Notes
Table sugar (sucrose)	50%	50%	1:1 glucose + fructose
Honey	~35–40%	~35–40%	Also has water + trace stuff
Fruit	Varies	High	Mostly fructose with fibre
Starch (rice, bread, potatoes)	100%	0%	Pure glucose (as long chains = slow digestion)
Dextrose powder	100%	0%	Pure glucose, fast-acting
Maltodextrin	Glucose polymers	0%	High GI, glucose-heavy

FINAL STUFF​

• Maximising insulin, mTOR and IGF-1 for growth can be done by eating meals/high carbs every 2 hours or less to counteract the crashes
• Rice seems to spike blood sugar the lowest and therefore give less of an insulin response

TLDR?

• Frequent glucose-based meals
• High insulin → High IGF-1 → Pulsed mTOR
• Avoid excess fructose
• Glucose boosts dopamine which is beneficial for hormones and growth
• Especially beneficial during rapid growth phases
• Minimise cortisol to reduce chance of diabetes, as even person with good diet but high cortisol can develop it
• Sugar diet etc may be legit, but higher glucose content is more effective compared to fructose
• Leucine needs sugar to be effective
• Cycle between AMPK and mTOR pathways to not wreck body (to minimise side effects from mTOR overactivation and reintroduce sensitivity)

thoughts?

 

[Loruki]

= insulin resistance from being too retarded

 

[HEXEDRONE]

= insulin resistance from being too retarded

reduce cortisol and cycle mtor with ampk

obvious not to eat bricks of sugar all day every day, just showing importance of carbs for growth pathways and the theory behind most of it

 

[Loruki]

reduce cortisol and cycle mtor with ampk

obvious not to eat bricks of sugar all day every day, just showing importance of carbs for growth pathways and the theory behind most of it

you only need carbs for pre-workouts.

never overdo anything. always keep things in moderation.

 

[parkergleas00]

high iq thread dnr

 

[HEXEDRONE]

you only need carbs for pre-workouts.

never overdo anything. always keep things in moderation.

I would say post too, to replenish stores + GH and insulin spike stuff. Heard about carbs right after fasting and any other low insulin states for maximum boost

Agreed.

 

[Loruki]

I would say post too, to replenish stores + GH and insulin spike stuff. Heard about carbs right after fasting and any other low insulin states for maximum boost

Agreed.

Fasting is to make your body less used to insulin.

The less your body is familiar with insulin, the more effective it will be during spikes.

This is what most don't understand.

 

[HEXEDRONE]

Fasting is to make your body less used to insulin.

The less your body is familiar with insulin, the more effective it will be during spikes.

This is what most don't understand.

Facts.

Fasting and other AMPK stuff is very beneficial in that aspect

Like you said, moderation is key to get the most out of everything.

 

[Alirmso50x1]

Facts.

Fasting and other AMPK stuff is very beneficial in that aspect

Like you said, moderation is key to get the most out of everything.

So intense workout then eating something with glucose? Like only eating that when after a workout

 

[addalinnerlight]

SUGAR, IGF-1, MTOR​

sugar diet, pablo diet, etc etc.

HERES THE INFO DUMP

View attachment 3664672

HOW DOES IGF-1 WORK ALONGSIDE INSULIN?​

1. Insulin indirectly increases IGF-1 via GH (Growth Hormone) signalling​

• GH stimulates IGF-1, mostly in the liver
• GH needs insulin to do this
• In low-insulin states (fasting, starvation), GH goes up, but IGF-1 drops

2. Insulin directly supports IGF-1 production (even independent of GH)​

• Even without GH, insulin increases:
  • IGF-1 mRNA expression
  • IGF-binding proteins (like IGFBP-3)
• Most active in high-carb, fed states

3. Insulin modulates IGF-1 activity​

• It raises IGFBP-3 and ALS (acid-labile subunit)
• These stabilise and carry IGF-1 in the blood
• More usable IGF-1 circulating = better growth signalling

MTOR VS AMPK​

*	mTOR (mechanistic Target of Rapamycin)	AMPK (AMP-activated Protein Kinase)
Triggers	Nutrients (protein, leucine), insulin, IGF-1, high energy (ATP)	Low energy (AMP:ATP ↑), fasting, exercise, metformin, berberine
Function	Growth, anabolism, synthesis	Catabolism, cleanup
Brain	Enhances neuroplasticity (but too much is excitotoxicity)	Promotes neuroprotection, autophagy, anti-aging
Muscle	Promotes hypertrophy	Makes more mitochondria, endurance
Fat	Promotes lipogenesis	Promotes lipolysis
Cell Metabolism	↑ protein & lipid synthesis, ↓ autophagy	↓ protein synthesis, ↑ autophagy, ↑ glucose uptake
Link	AMPK inhibits mTOR	mTOR blocks some AMPK-induced autophagy
Skin	oily skin, acne	clearer skin, less inflammation

• Therefore, when optimising growth, you have to consider the tradeoffs
• Activating mTOR (like through sugar) provides growth, but higher risk of cancer, acne, and ageing

View attachment 3664666
Note tall people

mTOR Overactivation Risks:

• ↓ Autophagy, ↑ Cellular junk
• ↑ Cancer risk
• ↑ Acne, sebum production
• ↓ Insulin sensitivity (if chronic)

LEUCINE?​

This study says that leucine activates mTOR better than sugar, but they also mentioned how glucose is almost necessary to maximise leucine intake for activation of mTOR pathways and growth. High protein diet with almost no carbs will NOT give you sufficient growth, therefore.

Spoiler: EXTRACT FROM STUDY

Experiments using somatostatin, which prevents secretion of a number of growth factors, including insulin, suppressed leucine-induced phosphorylation of S6K1 and 4E-BP1, suggesting that the response is partially modulated by growth factors. Furthermore, in diabetic rats, muscle protein synthesis is thought to be reduced by ∼65% compared with starved nondiabetic controls. Leucine supplementation caused partial recovery of this; however, muscle protein synthesis was still abnormally low, supporting the notion that insulin is required for a maximal response to leucine

Glucose helps LARS1 detect leucine and activate mTORC1, but only if there’s enough energy in the cell

CARBS FOR IGF 1 DIET​

In adult female pigs, dextrose and sucrose combined with lactose stimulated higher insulin responses (therefore igf 1 production) compared to control diets


In growing thoroughbreds (horses), a sugar and starch-rich diet gave higher plasma IGF-1 levels during rapid growth phases compared to a fat and fibre-rich diet


Prepubertal female cows fed lots of starch and sugar showed increased serum IGF-1 concentrations to spike growth


Sugar supplementation in growth retarded calves led to elevated blood glucose and IGF-1 levels, and improved overall growth performance


Sugar → Insulin ↑ → IGF-1 ↑ → Growth ↑

• This effect is most prominent during rapid growth phases or growth-delayed states in animal models

DIABETES​

Fructose may induce inflammation and increase cortisol production, leading to insulin resistance


Chronic cortisol overproduction could be a cause of type 2 diabetes, as numerous interventions that decrease cortisol show antidiabetic effects, while factors increasing cortisol are associated with type 2 diabetes development

• Eat glucose for better spikes in insulin to promote dopamine secretion and reducing cortisol (more near bottom of thread)
• Minimise cortisol through phosphatidylserine, GABAergic supplements, and don’t let blood sugar drop too low or too often as it can spike it
• Possibly cycle mTOR with AMPK activation for cell clean up and regeneration

CANCER​

Some possible risks of cancer can occur from mTOR overactivation and excess cell growth, however

GLUCOSE vs FRUCTOSE
​

Prioritise glucose over fructose to maximise spikes

FRUCTOSE

• It doesn’t raise blood glucose much, so no major insulin spike
• Fructose goes straight to your liver and gets turned into fat and other stuff instead of being used for energy like glucose (bypasses glycolysis)
• Raises cortisol in excess, increases AMPK short term due to AMP:ATP ratio going up

GLUCOSE

• Also, glucose can spike dopamine short-term and benefit hormones, and that spike is greater than from fructose​
• Activates D1 receptors (beneficial for mTOR and other hormones, including GH and Test)​
• Can suppress D2 autoreceptors (even more dopamine release)
• Glucose → insulin ↑ → dopamine ↑ → GH ↑ → IGF-1 ↑​
• Check this thread for more info based on dopamine and test/GH:​

Spoiler: DOPAMINE, GABA, TEST & GH

Dopamine, GABA, Test & GH

reupload needed formatting + new info D O P A M I N E Dopamine is an essential neurotransmitter that greatly benefits us in terms of survival through its effect on motivation. However, it also has effects on testosterone and growth hormones. LOCATIONS WHERE DOPAMINE HITS Hypothalamus...

looksmax.org

Spoiler: BASIC GLUCOSE VS FRUCTOSE TABLE

Sugar Type	Glucose	Fructose	Notes
Table sugar (sucrose)	50%	50%	1:1 glucose + fructose
Honey	~35–40%	~35–40%	Also has water + trace stuff
Fruit	Varies	High	Mostly fructose with fibre
Starch (rice, bread, potatoes)	100%	0%	Pure glucose (as long chains = slow digestion)
Dextrose powder	100%	0%	Pure glucose, fast-acting
Maltodextrin	Glucose polymers	0%	High GI, glucose-heavy

FINAL STUFF​

View attachment 3664727

• Maximising insulin, mTOR and IGF-1 for growth can be done by eating meals/high carbs every 2 hours or less to counteract the crashes
• Rice seems to spike blood sugar the lowest and therefore give less of an insulin response

TLDR?

• Frequent glucose-based meals
• High insulin → High IGF-1 → Pulsed mTOR
• Avoid excess fructose
• Glucose boosts dopamine which is beneficial for hormones and growth
• Especially beneficial during rapid growth phases
• Minimise cortisol to reduce chance of diabetes, as even person with good diet but high cortisol can develop it
• Sugar diet etc may be legit, but higher glucose content is more effective compared to fructose
• Leucine needs sugar to be effective
• Cycle between AMPK and mTOR pathways to not wreck body (to minimise side effects from mTOR overactivation and reintroduce sensitivity)

thoughts?

Spiking blood sugar with like 1,2kg Per body weight every 2 hours is retarded

 

[HEXEDRONE]

Spiking blood sugar with like 1,2kg Per body weight every 2 hours is retarded

Kg???? thats 2000 and 4000 kcal respectively. You dont need to eat that much, unless youre on some massive bulk or some shit or are really into maxing out mTOR without a care for your body. But every 2 hours or so keeps the pathway working.

Also, if you aim to maximise mTOR and are willing to conduct a little self experiment, sure, it works. Glucose is essential for growth and is often beneficial to hormones

Balancing with AMPK pathways and/or cycling it to prevent insulin resistance and minimise side effects is important too. Take things to restore insulin sensitivity once in a while to stay healthy

 

[addalinnerlight]

View attachment 3669157

Kg???? thats 2000 and 4000 kcal respectively. You dont need to eat that much, unless youre on some massive bulk or some shit or are really into maxing out mTOR without a care for your body. But every 2 hours or so keeps the pathway working.

Also, if you aim to maximise mTOR and are willing to conduct a little self experiment, sure, it works. Glucose is essential for growth and is often beneficial to hormones

Balancing with AMPK pathways and/or cycling it to prevent insulin resistance and minimise side effects is important too. Take things to restore insulin sensitivity once in a while to stay healthy

Yeah i eat cinnamon

 

[Bewusst]

Not going to address the content, but this is what a thread should look like. Good structuring, easy to follow, using graphs and paragraphs, highlighting stuff and putting a conclusion at the bottom. Take notes, guys!

 

[BlendedBlade]

Not going to address the content, but this is what a thread should look like. Good structuring, easy to follow, using graphs and paragraphs, highlighting stuff and putting a conclusion at the bottom. Take notes, guys!

Underrated

 

[uhhiforgot]

dnr, bookmarked

 

[addalinnerlight]

View attachment 3669157

Kg???? thats 2000 and 4000 kcal respectively. You dont need to eat that much, unless youre on some massive bulk or some shit or are really into maxing out mTOR without a care for your body. But every 2 hours or so keeps the pathway working.

Also, if you aim to maximise mTOR and are willing to conduct a little self experiment, sure, it works. Glucose is essential for growth and is often beneficial to hormones

Balancing with AMPK pathways and/or cycling it to prevent insulin resistance and minimise side effects is important too. Take things to restore insulin sensitivity once in a while to stay healthy

I mean 300g mb tho LOL I spike 3 times after walking up, before workout , after workout ( 3 hours before bed ) all with a scoop unflavoured whey protein for protein + leucine. What Else should I do

 

[addalinnerlight]

View attachment 3669157

Kg???? thats 2000 and 4000 kcal respectively. You dont need to eat that much, unless youre on some massive bulk or some shit or are really into maxing out mTOR without a care for your body. But every 2 hours or so keeps the pathway working.

Also, if you aim to maximise mTOR and are willing to conduct a little self experiment, sure, it works. Glucose is essential for growth and is often beneficial to hormones

Balancing with AMPK pathways and/or cycling it to prevent insulin resistance and minimise side effects is important too. Take things to restore insulin sensitivity once in a while to stay healthy

Alright so currently I do ALA + cinnamon and do around 100g dextrose Per meal is that too much? Or what I spike it 3x a day for 4 weeks then reduce carbs to a very low amount 40-60g a day for 2 weeks to reset insulin receptirs then repeat, good or what?

 

[HEXEDRONE]

I mean 300g mb tho LOL I spike 3 times after walking up, before workout , after workout ( 3 hours before bed ) all with a scoop unflavoured whey protein for protein + leucine. What Else should I do

You mentioned taking cinnamon. If you’re going to use it, do it before bed (unless you do already) to not suppress growth during the day whilst still restoring insulin sensitivity and “cleaning up” at night. A better alternative is berberine, which has stronger AMPK activation.

idk what your carb sources are but i already mentioned that glucose > fructose.

 

[addalinnerlight]

You mentioned taking cinnamon. If you’re going to use it, do it before bed (unless you do already) to not suppress growth during the day whilst still restoring insulin sensitivity and “cleaning up” at night. A better alternative is berberine, which has stronger AMPK activation.

idk what your carb sources are but i already mentioned that glucose > fructose.

Yes I plan on doing literally 40 dextrose on my off schedule ( are those even needed) they are right i Will get berberine I already use ALA (aloha lipoic acid) I take cinnamon before bed already but I 100g dextrose a meal 3x a day too much (essentially 100g glucose)

 

[HEXEDRONE]

Yes I plan on doing literally 40 dextrose on my off schedule ( are those even needed) they are right i Will get berberine I already use ALA (aloha lipoic acid) I take cinnamon before bed already but I 100g dextrose a meal 3x a day too much (essentially 100g glucose)

People are different, and different things work for different people. See how you feel. You can try doing something like 5 days of this diet on workout days and 2 low carb rest days or whatever, or maybe a day break a week. The supps will help mitigate side effects.

You can try lowering it to 50g * 3 if you really want to reduce risk.

 

[addalinnerlight]

People are different, and different things work for different people. See how you feel. You can try doing something like 5 days of this diet on workout days and 2 low carb rest days or whatever, or maybe a day break a week. The supps will help mitigate side effects.

You can try lowering it to 50g * 3 if you really want to reduce risk.

Wouldnt matter your insulin needs weeks to reset and start producing the original state of igf 1 after 4 weeks or months your igf Will decline bra

 

[Shinichi]

People are different, and different things work for different people. See how you feel. You can try doing something like 5 days of this diet on workout days and 2 low carb rest days or whatever, or maybe a day break a week. The supps will help mitigate side effects.

You can try lowering it to 50g * 3 if you really want to reduce risk.

Whats the best form of sugar to maximize growth? Lactose?

 

[HEXEDRONE]

Whats the best form of sugar to maximize growth? Lactose?

glucose

 

[Shinichi]

glucose

Lactose is galactose+glucose

 

[Shinichi]

Lactose is galactose+glucose

Jfl @ spamming all this js to get fat and not grow bone. @HEXEDRONE whats ur solution

 

[HEXEDRONE]

Jfl @ spamming all this js to get fat and not grow bone. @HEXEDRONE whats ur solution

Galactose is converted in liver and gives low insulin spike. Similar to fructose. Galactose also has a higher risk of turning into fat compared to glucose

The higher glucose %, the more insulin.

 

[fabi_magyr.incel]

Quality thread might even give it a try (179cm)

 

[Shinichi]

Galactose is converted in liver and gives low insulin spike. Similar to fructose. Galactose also has a higher risk of turning into fat compared to glucose

The higher glucose %, the more insulin.

What to eat then to get glucose