Surgery / Hardmax guide - if you're considering surgery GTFIH

[key]

I've spent over a year consulting different surgeons, I'm going to condense my opinions in this short post. Going over the most effective hardmax solutions for majorly beneficial results. This post will be going over procedures that are mentioned here often, I won't be going into unpopular / niche surgeries, nor will I be going into combination surgeries offered as branded packages by specific surgeons.

----

Few key notes:

- I will not be including any major maxillofacial surgeries, to get these surgeries, you should be a candidate (this means you have functional issues from improper bone development, and or MAJOR recession, in most posts about bimax on here, the poster wouldn't even benefit from a bimax). HAVING SAID THAT, if you are a candidate, a maxfac is going to be the most important surgery you get

- I will not be including LL, OBO, or any other retarded surgery, your health should come first before anything, a healthy man has 1000 wishes, a sick man has one, don't risk your health on outlandishly risky surgeries

- The type of surgeries that you will benefit from will depend on your face (obviously), that is to say, what works for one person, may not work for you, its important to asses your base and understand where to go from there

- Please assess your base and understand what you need to focus on, what works for one person may not work for another, spend the time and please do your fucking research

----

Top tier surgeries (and how they can be utilized):

• Facial fat transfer (and to a lesser extent, filler), this is number one, because of how versatile it is, you can correct MAJOR falios with fat transfers, the best use case is perhaps fat into the periorbital regions (will fix hollow eyes, reduce or completely remove uee (oculoplastic surgeons will refer to this as a superior sulcus repair), provide hooding (unless you're genuinely bug eyed then you need OD), make you look younger and healthier) and undereye (if you have sunken undereye, fat transfers are often paired with infraorbital implants and end up doing all the heavy lifting, the patient could've skipped the implant
  • Having said all this, I can't stress enough the importance of getting an experienced surgeon to perform these procedures, there are serious risks associated with injecting fat into arteries, so ensure that your surgeon is familiar with injecting into the areas you want, and is thoroughly educated on safety precautions like cannula sizes etc. this goes for all surgeries really

• Temporal / malar lift, yes... facelift is second on the list, why? Because manipulating soft tissue is one of the best ways to improve the way you look. Again, very versatile, lifts can be lateral, with slight horizontal elevation, this is most cases is perfect for men, try it yourself, touch your index fingers to your malar or temple region and around your eyes until you find a position you like, all these positions are possible
  • I understand that soft tissue work is considered risky on here due to the nature of how unpredictable it is, but from what I've seen, results have improved year on year, I see more GOOD results than I do bad ones, a few years ago this wasn't the case, but surgeons who specialize in these procedures seem to be perfecting their craft, so now is a good time to consider

• Custom cheekbone implants, most people have shitty zygos, what's more, you can have a well developed maxilla and still have shit zygos, cheekbone implants need to be well designed, and you NEED to go with a surgeon who understands aesthetics, and takes into account your specific case (most people I see on here would benefit from more anterior projection, while being conservative on lateral), whatever you do, DO NOT get off the shelf "submalar" implants, you will look bloated, the implant should start high on the cheekbone, and extend out to cover the sides (malar region)

• Genioplasty, this is a surgery that will be performed by a maxfac, however I do not consider it to be a major procedure, atleast not to the extent of a bimax, if your chin is recessed, get a genio, there are posts that go into why this is such an effective surgery, you can find them, very good and versatile surgery, there are a range of different types of genios (different cuts which will provide a different end result), consult an experienced max fac on this

• Rhinoplasty, a bad nose can throw off otherwise good harmony, rhino can fix this, improving not only side profile, but also front profile (fixing a bulbous nose from the front is always to good effect), however working on the tip of the nose is tricky so make sure you find a surgeon who is experienced on working on your nose type, consult multiple docs and see what they say

• Hair transplant, kind of goes without saying but if you're balding get a fucking hair transplant, unless you're in the 0.1% of men who look better bald

----

There it is, my humble opinion on some of the best surgeries you can get, these surgeries will provide the most noticeable changes to your face, although they can be subtle if you wish to be conservative, feel free to share with me your opinions on this.

 

[aldamogger]

no format no read

 

[rrm_ss2]

I've spent over a year consulting different surgeons, I'm going to condense my opinions in this short post. Going over the most effective hardmax solutions for majorly beneficial results. This post will be going over procedures that are mentioned here often, I won't be going into unpopular / niche surgeries, nor will I be going into combination surgeries offered as branded packages by specific surgeons.

----

Few key notes:

- I will not be including any major maxillofacial surgeries, to get these surgeries, you should be a candidate (this means you have functional issues from improper bone development, and or MAJOR recession, in most posts about bimax on here, the poster wouldn't even benefit from a bimax). HAVING SAID THAT, if you are a candidate, a maxfac is going to be the most important surgery you get

- I will not be including LL, OBO, or any other retarded surgery, your health should come first before anything, a healthy man has 1000 wishes, a sick man has one, don't risk your health on outlandishly risky surgeries

- The type of surgeries that you will benefit from will depend on your face (obviously), that is to say, what works for one person, may not work for you, its important to asses your base and understand where to go from there

- Please assess your base and understand what you need to focus on, what works for one person may not work for another, spend the time and please do your fucking research

----

Top tier surgeries (and how they can be utilized):

• Facial fat transfer (and to a lesser extent, filler), this is number one, because of how versatile it is, you can correct MAJOR falios with fat transfers, the best use case is perhaps fat into the periorbital regions (will fix hollow eyes, reduce or completely remove uee (oculoplastic surgeons will refer to this as a superior sulcus repair), provide hooding (unless you're genuinely bug eyed then you need OD), make you look younger and healthier) and undereye (if you have sunken undereye, fat transfers are often paired with infraorbital implants and end up doing all the heavy lifting, the patient could've skipped the implant
  • Having said all this, I can't stress enough the importance of getting an experienced surgeon to perform these procedures, there are serious risks associated with injecting fat into arteries, so ensure that your surgeon is familiar with injecting into the areas you want, and is thoroughly educated on safety precautions like cannula sizes etc. this goes for all surgeries really

• Temporal / malar lift, yes... facelift is second on the list, why? Because manipulating soft tissue is one of the best ways to improve the way you look. Again, very versatile, lifts can be lateral, with slight horizontal elevation, this is most cases is perfect for men, try it yourself, touch your index fingers to your malar or temple region and around your eyes until you find a position you like, all these positions are possible
  • I understand that soft tissue work is considered risky on here due to the nature of how unpredictable it is, but from what I've seen, results have improved year on year, I see more GOOD results than I do bad ones, a few years ago this wasn't the case, but surgeons who specialize in these procedures seem to be perfecting their craft, so now is a good time to consider

• Custom cheekbone implants, most people have shitty zygos, what's more, you can have a well developed maxilla and still have shit zygos, cheekbone implants need to be well designed, and you NEED to go with a surgeon who understands aesthetics, and takes into account your specific case (most people I see on here would benefit from more anterior projection, while being conservative on lateral), whatever you do, DO NOT get off the shelf "submalar" implants, you will look bloated, the implant should start high on the cheekbone, and extend out to cover the sides (malar region)

• Genioplasty, this is a surgery that will be performed by a maxfac, however I do not consider it to be a major procedure, atleast not to the extent of a bimax, if your chin is recessed, get a genio, there are posts that go into why this is such an effective surgery, you can find them, very good and versatile surgery, there are a range of different types of genios (different cuts which will provide a different end result), consult an experienced max fac on this

• Rhinoplasty, a bad nose can throw off otherwise good harmony, rhino can fix this, improving not only side profile, but also front profile (fixing a bulbous nose from the front is always to good effect), however working on the tip of the nose is tricky so make sure you find a surgeon who is experienced on working on your nose type, consult multiple docs and see what they say

• Hair transplant, kind of goes without saying but if you're balding get a fucking hair transplant, unless you're in the 0.1% of men who look better bald

----

There it is, my humble opinion on some of the best surgeries you can get, these surgeries will provide the most noticeable changes to your face, although they can be subtle if you wish to be conservative, feel free to share with me your opinions on this.

cant you just reduce it to like 1 sentance?

 

[key]

cant you just reduce it to like 1 sentance?

No you must unfuck your dopamine raped brain and fix your attention span, thats arguably going to help you more than any surgery will

 

[rrm_ss2]

No you must unfuck your dopamine raped brain and fix your attention span, thats arguably going to help you more than any surgery will

 

[qelk]

is getting malar+infraorbital+paranasal implants feasible for a recessedcell? also, do i consult an oculoplastic surgeon or just a regular plastic surgeon for mid face/undereye implants?

 

[key]

is getting malar+infraorbital+paranasal implants feasible for a recessedcell? also, do i consult an oculoplastic surgeon or just a regular plastic surgeon for mid face/undereye implants?

Would depend on how recessed, if you want to dm pics I could tell you but in general yes (as per the post if you're highly recessed and have functional issues then it would be worth considering bimax first), recessed upper face can be fixed with custom made infra-malar implants, also consult a surgeon with expertise in custom implants with good results, this could be an orthognathic surgeon, oculoplastic, doesn't really matter as many surgeons do implants in addition to their main area of surgery, just make sure they're good

 

[qelk]

Would depend on how recessed, if you want to dm pics I could tell you but in general yes (as per the post if you're highly recessed and have functional issues then it would be worth considering bimax first), recessed upper face can be fixed with custom made infra-malar implants, also consult a surgeon with expertise in custom implants with good results, this could be an orthognathic surgeon, oculoplastic, doesn't really matter as many surgeons do implants in addition to their main area of surgery, just make sure they're good

id really appreciate if you could breakdown my face and point me in the direction of what surgeries i should focus on. i don’t think i have enough rep on here to PM, can i add you on instagram or something?

 

[airyklav]

what you think about double jaw surgery?

 

[Foreverbrad]

Thoughts on supraorbital implants with drop down vs fat grafting?

I feel like LL isn’t the insanity it used to be, so many guys doing it now.

 

[key]

what you think about double jaw surgery?

Read key notes, worth if if you really need it, consult blackpilled maxfac

 

[airyklav]

Read key notes, worth if if you really need it, consult blackpilled maxfac

what is blackpilled maxfac?

 

[key]

Thoughts on supraorbital implants with drop down vs fat grafting?

I feel like LL isn’t the insanity it used to be, so many guys doing it now.

Supras with dropdown seem to have good results from what little results are available, however most men don't need extra mass on the brow ridge, most of the aesthetic issues come from either an excess OR lack of fat, combined with shitty soft tissue, especially when it comes to eyes bc there are so many factors that make for nice eyes, it also depends on your base. See below examples for soft tissue surgeries only. Both bases we're atrocious, the man more so, yet both improved.

The main thing is this, if you have TRULY terrible facial bone support around the eyes then implants (in combination with soft tissue work) will go much further, but if you have 'normal eyes' and want beautiful eyes, soft tissue is the way to go.

Also haven't looked much into LL because I'm not considering it, but its still fucked, its still too experimental imo

 

[key]

what is blackpilled maxfac?

A maxillofacial (also referred to as orthognathic) surgeon, who takes aesthetics into account. Most don't.

 

[pat]

I've spent over a year consulting different surgeons, I'm going to condense my opinions in this short post. Going over the most effective hardmax solutions for majorly beneficial results. This post will be going over procedures that are mentioned here often, I won't be going into unpopular / niche surgeries, nor will I be going into combination surgeries offered as branded packages by specific surgeons.

----

Few key notes:

- I will not be including any major maxillofacial surgeries, to get these surgeries, you should be a candidate (this means you have functional issues from improper bone development, and or MAJOR recession, in most posts about bimax on here, the poster wouldn't even benefit from a bimax). HAVING SAID THAT, if you are a candidate, a maxfac is going to be the most important surgery you get

- I will not be including LL, OBO, or any other retarded surgery, your health should come first before anything, a healthy man has 1000 wishes, a sick man has one, don't risk your health on outlandishly risky surgeries

- The type of surgeries that you will benefit from will depend on your face (obviously), that is to say, what works for one person, may not work for you, its important to asses your base and understand where to go from there

- Please assess your base and understand what you need to focus on, what works for one person may not work for another, spend the time and please do your fucking research

----

Top tier surgeries (and how they can be utilized):

• Facial fat transfer (and to a lesser extent, filler), this is number one, because of how versatile it is, you can correct MAJOR falios with fat transfers, the best use case is perhaps fat into the periorbital regions (will fix hollow eyes, reduce or completely remove uee (oculoplastic surgeons will refer to this as a superior sulcus repair), provide hooding (unless you're genuinely bug eyed then you need OD), make you look younger and healthier) and undereye (if you have sunken undereye, fat transfers are often paired with infraorbital implants and end up doing all the heavy lifting, the patient could've skipped the implant
  • Having said all this, I can't stress enough the importance of getting an experienced surgeon to perform these procedures, there are serious risks associated with injecting fat into arteries, so ensure that your surgeon is familiar with injecting into the areas you want, and is thoroughly educated on safety precautions like cannula sizes etc. this goes for all surgeries really

• Temporal / malar lift, yes... facelift is second on the list, why? Because manipulating soft tissue is one of the best ways to improve the way you look. Again, very versatile, lifts can be lateral, with slight horizontal elevation, this is most cases is perfect for men, try it yourself, touch your index fingers to your malar or temple region and around your eyes until you find a position you like, all these positions are possible
  • I understand that soft tissue work is considered risky on here due to the nature of how unpredictable it is, but from what I've seen, results have improved year on year, I see more GOOD results than I do bad ones, a few years ago this wasn't the case, but surgeons who specialize in these procedures seem to be perfecting their craft, so now is a good time to consider

• Custom cheekbone implants, most people have shitty zygos, what's more, you can have a well developed maxilla and still have shit zygos, cheekbone implants need to be well designed, and you NEED to go with a surgeon who understands aesthetics, and takes into account your specific case (most people I see on here would benefit from more anterior projection, while being conservative on lateral), whatever you do, DO NOT get off the shelf "submalar" implants, you will look bloated, the implant should start high on the cheekbone, and extend out to cover the sides (malar region)

• Genioplasty, this is a surgery that will be performed by a maxfac, however I do not consider it to be a major procedure, atleast not to the extent of a bimax, if your chin is recessed, get a genio, there are posts that go into why this is such an effective surgery, you can find them, very good and versatile surgery, there are a range of different types of genios (different cuts which will provide a different end result), consult an experienced max fac on this

• Rhinoplasty, a bad nose can throw off otherwise good harmony, rhino can fix this, improving not only side profile, but also front profile (fixing a bulbous nose from the front is always to good effect), however working on the tip of the nose is tricky so make sure you find a surgeon who is experienced on working on your nose type, consult multiple docs and see what they say

• Hair transplant, kind of goes without saying but if you're balding get a fucking hair transplant, unless you're in the 0.1% of men who look better bald

----

There it is, my humble opinion on some of the best surgeries you can get, these surgeries will provide the most noticeable changes to your face, although they can be subtle if you wish to be conservative, feel free to share with me your opinions on this.

who would be best for cheeks revision considering giant botched my implants?

 

[key]

who would be best for cheeks revision considering giant botched my implants?

sorry to hear about your implants, i'm guessing they we're just too big and provided too much projection? if you needed to get the removed and now have loose skin around your zygos then a malar lift would likely fix it, and likely make your cheek area look better than it did naturally before the implants, you could also combine a fat graft for added volume under the eyes.

A lot of surgeons offer malar lifts, and although I generally hate turkish surgeons for any soft tissue work that isnt rhino, they seem to produce some of the best cheek lifts I've seen.

graziani also does malar lift but more expensive

 

[pumpkin]

sorry to hear about your implants, i'm guessing they we're just too big and provided too much projection? if you needed to get the removed and now have loose skin around your zygos then a malar lift would likely fix it, and likely make your cheek area look better than it did naturally before the implants, you could also combine a fat graft for added volume under the eyes.

A lot of surgeons offer malar lifts, and although I generally hate turkish surgeons for any soft tissue work that isnt rhino, they seem to produce some of the best cheek lifts I've seen.

graziani also does malar lift but more expensive

Can I dm you about my case?

 

[pumpkin]

Any surgery that would widen upper and lower jaws with no ccw forward or backward movement just pure widening?

 

[key]

Can I dm you about my case?

ofc you can

 

[ThatInfamousDude]

I've spent over a year consulting different surgeons, I'm going to condense my opinions in this short post. Going over the most effective hardmax solutions for majorly beneficial results. This post will be going over procedures that are mentioned here often, I won't be going into unpopular / niche surgeries, nor will I be going into combination surgeries offered as branded packages by specific surgeons.

----

Few key notes:

- I will not be including any major maxillofacial surgeries, to get these surgeries, you should be a candidate (this means you have functional issues from improper bone development, and or MAJOR recession, in most posts about bimax on here, the poster wouldn't even benefit from a bimax). HAVING SAID THAT, if you are a candidate, a maxfac is going to be the most important surgery you get

- I will not be including LL, OBO, or any other retarded surgery, your health should come first before anything, a healthy man has 1000 wishes, a sick man has one, don't risk your health on outlandishly risky surgeries

- The type of surgeries that you will benefit from will depend on your face (obviously), that is to say, what works for one person, may not work for you, its important to asses your base and understand where to go from there

- Please assess your base and understand what you need to focus on, what works for one person may not work for another, spend the time and please do your fucking research

----

Top tier surgeries (and how they can be utilized):

• Facial fat transfer (and to a lesser extent, filler), this is number one, because of how versatile it is, you can correct MAJOR falios with fat transfers, the best use case is perhaps fat into the periorbital regions (will fix hollow eyes, reduce or completely remove uee (oculoplastic surgeons will refer to this as a superior sulcus repair), provide hooding (unless you're genuinely bug eyed then you need OD), make you look younger and healthier) and undereye (if you have sunken undereye, fat transfers are often paired with infraorbital implants and end up doing all the heavy lifting, the patient could've skipped the implant
  • Having said all this, I can't stress enough the importance of getting an experienced surgeon to perform these procedures, there are serious risks associated with injecting fat into arteries, so ensure that your surgeon is familiar with injecting into the areas you want, and is thoroughly educated on safety precautions like cannula sizes etc. this goes for all surgeries really

• Temporal / malar lift, yes... facelift is second on the list, why? Because manipulating soft tissue is one of the best ways to improve the way you look. Again, very versatile, lifts can be lateral, with slight horizontal elevation, this is most cases is perfect for men, try it yourself, touch your index fingers to your malar or temple region and around your eyes until you find a position you like, all these positions are possible
  • I understand that soft tissue work is considered risky on here due to the nature of how unpredictable it is, but from what I've seen, results have improved year on year, I see more GOOD results than I do bad ones, a few years ago this wasn't the case, but surgeons who specialize in these procedures seem to be perfecting their craft, so now is a good time to consider

• Custom cheekbone implants, most people have shitty zygos, what's more, you can have a well developed maxilla and still have shit zygos, cheekbone implants need to be well designed, and you NEED to go with a surgeon who understands aesthetics, and takes into account your specific case (most people I see on here would benefit from more anterior projection, while being conservative on lateral), whatever you do, DO NOT get off the shelf "submalar" implants, you will look bloated, the implant should start high on the cheekbone, and extend out to cover the sides (malar region)

• Genioplasty, this is a surgery that will be performed by a maxfac, however I do not consider it to be a major procedure, atleast not to the extent of a bimax, if your chin is recessed, get a genio, there are posts that go into why this is such an effective surgery, you can find them, very good and versatile surgery, there are a range of different types of genios (different cuts which will provide a different end result), consult an experienced max fac on this

• Rhinoplasty, a bad nose can throw off otherwise good harmony, rhino can fix this, improving not only side profile, but also front profile (fixing a bulbous nose from the front is always to good effect), however working on the tip of the nose is tricky so make sure you find a surgeon who is experienced on working on your nose type, consult multiple docs and see what they say

• Hair transplant, kind of goes without saying but if you're balding get a fucking hair transplant, unless you're in the 0.1% of men who look better bald

----

There it is, my humble opinion on some of the best surgeries you can get, these surgeries will provide the most noticeable changes to your face, although they can be subtle if you wish to be conservative, feel free to share with me your opinions on this.

High IQ post. Well written.

However, I disagree with the order.

As far as I am aware fat transfers are temporary (kind of self explanatory). Much better than fillers which I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole unless extremely specific case, lips for women is the only thing I can think of. This due to pillow face and migration.

But yeah, I would always put osteomies first, then implants and then soft tissue manipulation. Manipulating soft tissue without a correct bone base feels like decorating the walls of a house with rotten wooden pillars.

So always start from the absolute beginning. That is bimax if recessed, then osteomies, then implants, then soft tissue manipulation.

Feel free to disagree, happy to hear an opposing stance.

 

[narcomogs]

High IQ post. Well written.

However, I disagree with the order.

As far as I am aware fat transfers are temporary (kind of self explanatory). Much better than fillers which I wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole unless extremely specific case, lips for women is the only thing I can think of. This due to pillow face and migration.

But yeah, I would always put osteomies first, then implants and then soft tissue manipulation. Manipulating soft tissue without a correct bone base feels like decorating the walls of a house with rotten wooden pillars.

So always start from the absolute beginning. That is bimax if recessed, then osteomies, then implants, then soft tissue manipulation.

Feel free to disagree, happy to hear an opposing stance.

I think its better to go super conservative on implants. MTN bone structure can be subtly enhancd to chadlite with a skilled injector and the right filler material. Not really a disagreement, just my 2 cents

 

[ThatInfamousDude]

I think its better to go super conservative on implants. MTN bone structure can be subtly enhancd to chadlite with a skilled injector and the right filler material. Not really a disagreement, just my 2 cents

Going conservative is always better. Problem with filler is they look goofy, and you will descend every single day lol. Like the first week it looks good, and then it slowly desolves. Or it spreads and you get pillowface.

Atleast implants are permanent, and stuff like PEEK pretty much mimicks bone.

Filler is far too risky, and it can literally spread anywhere. Filler results are far better than implants or osteomies in the short run, but for longevity? Not even close.

 

[narcomogs]

Going conservative is always better. Problem with filler is they look goofy, and you will descend every single day lol. Like the first week it looks good, and then it slowly desolves. Or it spreads and you get pillowface.

Atleast implants are permanent, and stuff like PEEK pretty much mimicks bone.

Filler is far too risky, and it can literally spread anywhere. Filler results are far better than implants or osteomies in the short run, but for longevity? Not even close.

That's why you get best of both, semi permanent filler on top of an implant/osteotomy enhanced base. From a skilled aesthetic minded injector for men - Think Salludon.

The main issue with filler ( migration, longevity ) can be mitigated. I used to be very against it but the ideal is always filler level (immediate) result + implant level permanence. Then it just depends on how you want to get it

 

[ThatInfamousDude]

That's why you get best of both, semi permanent filler on top of an implant/osteotomy enhanced base. From a skilled aesthetic minded injector for men - Think Salludon.

The main issue with filler ( migration, longevity ) can be mitigated. I used to be very against it but the ideal is always filler level (immediate) result + implant level permanence. Then it just depends on how you want to get it

Hmmm. Will look into it. At the moment I am very anti-filler. Because honestly fixing recession with filler is comical (like sometimes is done).I have also only seen bad results (in the long term).

But maybe I am wrong, I will read more into it. For now I am focussed on osteomies/implants tho. Thanks! Appreciate the opinion.

 

[narcomogs]

Hmmm. Will look into it. At the moment I am very anti-filler. Because honestly fixing recession with filler is comical (like sometimes is done).I have also only seen bad results (in the long term).

But maybe I am wrong, I will read more into it. For now I am focussed on osteomies/implants tho. Thanks! Appreciate the opinion.

Yes, fix base first always. No. 1 priority, based.

give rep to me and other users pls ( thumbs up in bottom right )