TABAN IS AGAINST CANTHOPLASTY (GTFIH)

[decadouche57]

Basically I met with him and he said he doesn't advise normal cantho he says its better to combine canthoplasty with lower lid retraction. Total cost of this procedure is 20K.

What do you guys think?

@RealSurgerymax

 

[decadouche57]

The fact that he brought up lower lid retraction makes me feel he is a good surgeon as most would try to do a standard cantho

 

[Deleted member 126862]

isnt that the guy who botched frank tufano with same surgery

 

[decadouche57]

isnt that the guy who botched frank tufano with same surgery

I don't think the botch was his fault but bc the guy wanted too many surgeries at once and did OBO

 

[Deleted member 147538]

I don't think the botch was his fault but bc the guy wanted too many surgeries at once and did OBO

Ye but some blame still lies on tufano as he should’ve declined the request

 

[decadouche57]

Ye but some blame still lies on tufano as he should’ve declined the request

On taban you mean

 

[cutecel1337]

I don't think the botch was his fault but bc the guy wanted too many surgeries at once and did OBO

he got botched obo

 

[tweaqo]

and did OBO

he got botched obo

He did not get OBO lol

He got orbital decompression.

And he should’ve never performed it, you can’t say “muh the patient asked for it, so it’s not the doctor’s fault”.

The Doctor has a duty of care for the patient, and the OD should never have been performed.

 

[lurking truecel]

He did not get OBO lol

He got orbital decompression.

And he should’ve never performed it, you can’t say “muh the patient asked for it, so it’s not the doctor’s fault”.

The Doctor has a duty of care for the patient, and the OD should never have been performed.

Even the best surgeons have lots of botches. If their is a risk on the surgery risk list, then a surgeon who performs it relatively often experienced it atleast once. That's the name of the game

 

[lurking truecel]

Ye but some blame still lies on tufano as he should’ve declined the request

If a surgeon would start declining patients because there is a risk with surgery not many surgeries would be done. Imagine living in fairytale land thinking not every surgeon on earth who performs a few times weekly dont have a lot of botches

 

[tweaqo]

Even the best surgeons have lots of botches. If their is a risk on the surgery risk list, then a surgeon who performs it relatively often experienced it atleast once. That's the name of the game

Imo orbital decompression should not have been performed.

I think it should only be performed on patients with Graves’ disease.

Supra and infras would’ve been safer, I still think Dr T shouldn’t have performed it and it was negligent.

OD has far too high botch rate

 

[lurking truecel]

Imo orbital decompression should not have been performed.

I think it should only be performed on patients with Graves’ disease.

Supra and infras would’ve been safer, I still think Dr T shouldn’t have performed it and it was negligent.

OD has far too high botch rate

His eyes were bulging, and that one guy got botched doesnt mean anything of the botch rate. He was unlucky, and OD might be risky but not so risky it shouldnt be performed

 

[tweaqo]

His eyes were bulging, and that one guy got botched doesnt mean anything of the botch rate. He was unlucky, and OD might be risky but not so risky it shouldnt be performed

Comparative effectiveness of various orbital decompression techniques in treating thyroid-associated ophthalmopathy: a systematic review and meta-analysis - PMC

In thyroid-associated ophthalmopathy (TAO), orbital decompression is a critical surgical approach for functional and aesthetic reasons. Meanwhile, the presence of surgical complications, especially the new onset of primary gaze diplopia, also ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

11% complication rate bro…

Compare this to literal bimax which involves reshaping the entire lower third and midface, has a complication rate of less than 5%

 

[lurking truecel]

Imo orbital decompression should not have been performed.

I think it should only be performed on patients with Graves’ disease.

Supra and infras would’ve been safer, I still think Dr T shouldn’t have performed it and it was negligent.

OD has far too high botch rate

And also the infra/supra combo for bulging eyes have no result that proves it actually looks good. Overall there is like zero result out there of a hood supra result at all, esp not in motion making that surgery more risky. Imagine doing a surgery where you dont have a video of a guy or girl doing it in motion

 

[lurking truecel]

Comparative effectiveness of various orbital decompression techniques in treating thyroid-associated ophthalmopathy: a systematic review and meta-analysis - PMC

In thyroid-associated ophthalmopathy (TAO), orbital decompression is a critical surgical approach for functional and aesthetic reasons. Meanwhile, the presence of surgical complications, especially the new onset of primary gaze diplopia, also ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

11% complication rate bro…

Compare this to literal bimax which involves reshaping the entire lower third and midface, has a complication rate of less than 5%

You cant compare like that as all of the patients in the study had the disease and was deformed vs a bimax surgery where many move upper maxilla like 3 mm to close a bite issue. Ofc their will be less complications then a actual big bimax with big downgraft and big bsso.

 

[zaebalsya]

canthoplasty with lower lid retraction. Total cost of this procedure is 20K.

wtf?
Isn't 20k too much for this surgery?

 

[decadouche57]

wtf?
Isn't 20k too much for this surgery?

Yes taban is a scam

 

[cutecel1337]

He did not get OBO lol

He got orbital decompression.

And he should’ve never performed it, you can’t say “muh the patient asked for it, so it’s not the doctor’s fault”.

The Doctor has a duty of care for the patient, and the OD should never have been performed.

Oh sorry i thought its the same thing anyway his case is crazy

 

[Sicilian Cyclops]

Imo orbital decompression should not have been performed.

I think it should only be performed on patients with Graves’ disease.

Supra and infras would’ve been safer, I still think Dr T shouldn’t have performed it and it was negligent.

OD has far too high botch rate

agree. the problem 99% of the time is a lack of bone & fat rather than "overly forward eyes"

 

[PSL Center]

Basically I met with him and he said he doesn't advise normal cantho he says its better to combine canthoplasty with lower lid retraction. Total cost of this procedure is 20K.

What do you guys think?

@RealSurgerymax

I thought you already booked your cantho?

 

[decadouche57]

I thought you already booked your cantho?

This is an old post

 

[bossman]

Comparative effectiveness of various orbital decompression techniques in treating thyroid-associated ophthalmopathy: a systematic review and meta-analysis - PMC

In thyroid-associated ophthalmopathy (TAO), orbital decompression is a critical surgical approach for functional and aesthetic reasons. Meanwhile, the presence of surgical complications, especially the new onset of primary gaze diplopia, also ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

11% complication rate bro…

Compare this to literal bimax which involves reshaping the entire lower third and midface, has a complication rate of less than 5%

Orbital decompression in Grave's disease is a more aggressive procedure compared to cosmetic decompression. Surgeons who specialise in orbital surgeries such as Raymond Douglas mention that cosmetic cases are a lot simpler to perform. Techniques have also improved significantly, a lot of surgeons are using the same methods that were done in the 1950s.

The key is an oculoplastic (not plastic) surgeon who specialises in orbital surgeries. For example, Guy Massry is a brilliant oculoplastic surgeon (maybe even the best) but does not perform orbital surgeries, for which he enlists the help of his friend Dr. Douglas.

It's a very risky surgery and there's only 3-4 people in the world I'd trust with my eyes for it. Compare that to a lower lid retraction repair for example, where I'd trust the top 5% of oculoplastic surgeons to do it without problems

 

[Accutane.and.ldar]

has Taban actually ever ascended anyone other than 80yr old grandmas

 

[FlotPSL]

Orbital decompression in Grave's disease is a more aggressive procedure compared to cosmetic decompression. Surgeons who specialise in orbital surgeries such as Raymond Douglas mention that cosmetic cases are a lot simpler to perform. Techniques have also improved significantly, a lot of surgeons are using the same methods that were done in the 1950s.

The key is an oculoplastic (not plastic) surgeon who specialises in orbital surgeries. For example, Guy Massry is a brilliant oculoplastic surgeon (maybe even the best) but does not perform orbital surgeries, for which he enlists the help of his friend Dr. Douglas.

It's a very risky surgery and there's only 3-4 people in the world I'd trust with my eyes for it. Compare that to a lower lid retraction repair for example, where I'd trust the top 5% of oculoplastic surgeons to do it without problems

Im actually planning on getting it

 

[FlotPSL]

agree. the problem 99% of the time is a lack of bone & fat rather than "overly forward eyes"

How tho

 

[Devon]

Basically I met with him and he said he doesn't advise normal cantho he says its better to combine canthoplasty with lower lid retraction. Total cost of this procedure is 20K.

What do you guys think?

@RealSurgerymax

20k for cantho just lol

 

[gosbo]

His eyes were bulging, and that one guy got botched doesnt mean anything of the botch rate. He was unlucky, and OD might be risky but not so risky it shouldnt be performed

Yes but this was due to his supras and infras, the setness of the eyes themselves were fine, he did NOT need orbital decompression, heck even that mf Hamza needs supras and infras not orbital decompression

 

[BronzeSpartan2]

Yes but this was due to his supras and infras, the setness of the eyes themselves were fine, he did NOT need orbital decompression, heck even that mf Hamza needs supras and infras not orbital decompression

Hamza definitely needs orbital decompression. Orbital decompression is really the only way to fix bulging eyes, it’s just a fear mongered procedure because of Tufano’s botch and the studies on complications rates being from patients with Graves’ disease. The risk is way lower for cosmetic cases. Also there’s way more results out there of orbital decompression fixing bulging eyes than there are of supras + infras making the eyes more deepset.

 

[bjebb007]

Yeah I wouldn't go to him considering what he did to Tufano. Also 20k for cantho wtf it's like throwing money away for no reason

 

[Firstname.Lastname]

Shouldn't be a shocker most FPS normally avoid cantoplasty opting usually for canthopexy instead. Taban seems to like to heavily up charge work he dislikes too.

I meet with him Juneish of 25, was quoted 13-14k for ptosis repair and lower bleth(obvi w/ cantopexy).

I asked him about almond eye surgery but its a whole song and dace with him over that. He doesn't seem to like doing it.

Yeah I wouldn't go to him considering what he did to Tufano.

Thats a take imo. Frank was fucked up before taban. All surgeries have complications, so you cannot just blame the surgeon when it occurs, unless they are occurring at high rates or their some specific issue in the case. Just having a complication is wholly insufficient and if that's how you think about it, you should have surgery in the first place.

has Taban actually ever ascended anyone other than 80yr old grandmas

Would love to see better before/afters, then tabans for eye work. Other then the Thailand clinic I don't know of any.

 

[Nahorscend]

Shouldn't be a shocker most FPS normally avoid cantoplasty opting usually for canthopexy instead. Taban seems to like to heavily up charge work he dislikes too.

I meet with him Juneish of 25, was quoted 13-14k for ptosis repair and lower bleth(obvi w/ cantopexy).

I asked him about almond eye surgery but its a whole song and dace with him over that. He doesn't seem to like doing it.

This is not entirely true. When you say canthoplasty this forum thinks only of repositioning of the lateral canthus to give PCT, most oculoplastics include grafts/retraction repair in what they call almond eye surgery (canthoplasty). What Taban said to OP just means that it's a bad idea to tighten or reposition the canthus without augmenting the lid contour as well, which is obvious but this forum considers them to be two unrelated things so it comes as a surprise apparently.

You were probably recommended canthopexy because canthopexy is used as prophylaxis alongside lower bleph (because the latter is prone to causing lid retraction) so it is standard to add a pexy alongside lower bleph. It is not really gold standard to do a pexy by itself to change eye shape or lid contour, nor is it true that plasty is some risky overkill surgery.

 

[Firstname.Lastname]

This is not entirely true. When you say canthoplasty this forum thinks only of repositioning of the lateral canthus to give PCT, most oculoplastics include grafts/retraction repair in what they call almond eye surgery (canthoplasty). What Taban said to OP just means that it's a bad idea to tighten or reposition the canthus without augmenting the lid contour as well, which is obvious but this forum considers them to be two unrelated things so it comes as a surprise apparently.

You were probably recommended canthopexy because canthopexy is used as prophylaxis alongside lower bleph (because the latter is prone to causing lid retraction) so it is standard to add a pexy alongside lower bleph. It is not really gold standard to do a pexy by itself to change eye shape or lid contour, nor is it true that plasty is some risky overkill surgery.

In my experience FPS tend to avoid cantoplasty in favor of canthopexy. I never said they do not or would never preform it. Nor did i say anything about that extending to just my case. The reasons for this preference should be clear, eye muscles are small and canthopexy is fully reversable normally canoplasty is not. Maybe its not that risky, but everything is units of risk vs units of rewards ie a relative score not an absolute one.

Also not sure why this would be a controversial take. I mean how many cantoplastys are preformed per year vs how many cantopexys preformed per year? Its not like a normal patient even knows the difference. So its largely selected by surgeon. Not sure what the exact numbers are but id shit myself if cantoplastys were done anywhere as much as cantopexys. You can argue that well you don't need it in as many case but that's a bit circular. Imo it also forgets things like surgeons are running personal business and covering there ass. One is reversable.

As far as my convo other then him telling me not to do cantoplasty/almond eye surgery. Specificly he complained about my skull, as a reason to avoid it. We didn't covery canthopexy specific, it's just the general standard when a lower bleth is done and I'm sure it would be done. Much like alarplasty on rhino. Yeah you can break them into different things and larp they are unrelated, but that makes little sense to me.

This is like when people argue that it's standard to remove fat in an upper bleth. It was, just like skin removal was standard in lower bleths. Those have fallen out of favor but some people still insist fat removal by default is somehow the gold standard, even though vast majority of surgeons will avoid it unless the specific case warrants it. Yet you will find some surgeons that almost always adjust/remove fat in upper bleths. Almost no one removes skin by default in lower bleths anymore thou.

Clearly OP explain taban was going to do cantoplasty. I'm just suggesting he's charging more than reasonable in this case due to tabans personal preferences.

 

[gosbo]

Hamza definitely needs orbital decompression. Orbital decompression is really the only way to fix bulging eyes, it’s just a fear mongered procedure because of Tufano’s botch and the studies on complications rates being from patients with Graves’ disease. The risk is way lower for cosmetic cases. Also there’s way more results out there of orbital decompression fixing bulging eyes than there are of supras + infras making the eyes more deepset.

I don't see how he needs OD, he has 0 supras and 0 infras, if he just got the implants his eye area would be fine, OD is only for graves, Vasily, Delon and and Murphy all don't have deep set eyes, now point of caring for such, just focus on the bones unless you legitimately have graves

 

[bjebb007]

Shouldn't be a shocker most FPS normally avoid cantoplasty opting usually for canthopexy instead. Taban seems to like to heavily up charge work he dislikes too.

I meet with him Juneish of 25, was quoted 13-14k for ptosis repair and lower bleth(obvi w/ cantopexy).

I asked him about almond eye surgery but its a whole song and dace with him over that. He doesn't seem to like doing it.


Thats a take imo. Frank was fucked up before taban. All surgeries have complications, so you cannot just blame the surgeon when it occurs, unless they are occurring at high rates or their some specific issue in the case. Just having a complication is wholly insufficient and if that's how you think about it, you should have surgery in the first place.


Would love to see better before/afters, then tabans for eye work. Other then the Thailand clinic I don't know of any.

He didn't need OD or OBO. It's not that the fact that he botched him that's the problem, it's that he even performed that surgery at all. Yes Taban does have some good results I won't deny that. OD/OBO should only be performed on people with disease

 

[Nahorscend]

I don't see how he needs OD, he has 0 supras and 0 infras, if he just got the implants his eye area would be fine, OD is only for graves, Vasily, Delon and and Murphy all don't have deep set eyes, now point of caring for such, just focus on the bones unless you legitimately have graves

He didn't need OD or OBO. It's not that the fact that he botched him that's the problem, it's that he even performed that surgery at all. Yes Taban does have some good results I won't deny that. OD/OBO should only be performed on people with disease

You guys are just parroting what you hear in looksmax circles with no in-depth knowledge of any of this, OD is not only for disease and can, should be, and is performed regularly and safely for cosmetic reasons. And it is also often the only true cosmetic solution, with implants not being a substitute.

Hamza is indeed an example that could benefit from OD as he has proptosis in addition to NOV (implants can only fix the latter, not the former, and it will probably look bad if you do only implants when you have both issues). Frank less so but the issue was not that OD was performed but that the medial wall was decompressed additionally, which was a mistake by Taban.

Also hilarious to club OD with OBO as if they are remotely comparable in risk and indication. OD is regularly performed for aesthetics with a ~0% complication rate and OBO is not performed for aesthetics by Taban or by almost anyone else because of the risk and complexity.

 

[gosbo]

You guys are just parroting what you hear in looksmax circles with no in-depth knowledge of any of this, OD is not only for disease and can, should be, and is performed regularly and safely for cosmetic reasons. And it is also often the only true cosmetic solution, with implants not being a substitute.

Hamza is indeed an example that could benefit from OD as he has proptosis in addition to NOV (implants can only fix the latter, not the former, and it will probably look bad if you do only implants when you have both issues). Frank less so but the issue was not that OD was performed but that the medial wall was decompressed additionally, which was a mistake by Taban.

Also hilarious to club OD with OBO as if they are remotely comparable in risk and indication. OD is regularly performed for aesthetics with a ~0% complication rate and OBO is not performed for aesthetics by Taban or by almost anyone else because of the risk and complexity.

shill for taban , OD botch rate it ≈ 10% and many surgeons literally don't perform OD, it takes a Google search and few seconds of reading on real self that OD is typically NOT seen as a cosmetic surgery. Sure Taban offers it but he's a greedy , realistically infras and supras are literally better and offer better results in every way, you don't need to sink your eyes back into shit orbits, the only time OD is needed is if you genuinely have graves or your orbits are fine and eyes are just buggy

 

[Nahorscend]

shill for taban , OD botch rate it ≈ 10% and many surgeons literally don't perform OD, it takes a Google search and few seconds of reading on real self that OD is typically NOT seen as a cosmetic surgery. Sure Taban offers it but he's a greedy , realistically infras and supras are literally better and offer better results in every way, you don't need to sink your eyes back into shit orbits, the only time OD is needed is if you genuinely have graves or your orbits are fine and eyes are just buggy

Yes, the fact that you have only done a Google search and a few seconds on a meme source like realself is the reason all of your information is incorrect. Most normie surgeons are not capable of performing a niche surgery like this.

There are different techniques for OD and the double vision rate differs greatly between them. Additionally the rate is higher for thyroid disease patients than cosmetic ones. Decompressing the medial wall or orbital floor is high risk, up to 30-40% especially in diseased patients. In cosmetic cases most good surgeons do only lateral or fat decompression as these are very safe. The best surgeons on earth have a 0-1% personal rate with these techniques which you would not know because you have not spoken to any of them or read their work.

Here are some sources:

Comparative effectiveness of various orbital decompression techniques in treating thyroid-associated ophthalmopathy: a systematic review and meta-analysis - BMC Ophthalmology

Background In thyroid-associated ophthalmopathy (TAO), orbital decompression is a critical surgical approach for functional and aesthetic reasons. Meanwhile, the presence of surgical complications, especially the new onset of primary gaze diplopia, also influences postoperative patient...

link.springer.com

3% incidence in lateral and in fat decompression, in diseased patients where the risk is innately higher

Aesthetic Deep Orbital Fat Decompression for Proptosis of Nonthyroidal Origin: A Case Series of 23 Patients - PubMed

Aesthetic deep orbital fat decompression appeared to be a safe and effective procedure for congenital proptosis, achieving significant cosmetic and functional improvements. However, future prospective investigations are warranted to establish its long-term safety and efficacy.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

0% incidence in cosmetic (non-diseased) fat decompression
This surgeon usually reports 1-3% though.

Orbital Bone Decompression for Non-Thyroid Eye Disease Proptosis - PubMed

Orbital decompression was safe and effective in reducing proptosis for non-thyroid eye disease indications in this series. The amount of exophthalmometry improvement was less in the inflammatory orbitopathy group compared with other proptosis etiology groups.Orbital decompression may have a role...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

0% incidence in cosmetic negative vector cases (and even in the diseased group here)

Expanding Role of Orbital Decompression in Aesthetic Surgery - PubMed

4.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Even Taban usually has low rates, here 0%.

The reason Taban botched Tufano is that he added the high risk medial wall to the operation for no good reason, probably for a bigger profit. I would not recommend Taban. There are only a handful of elite + ethical surgeons who can do this surgery safely. They are leaders of the field in caring for diseased patients yet a good proportion of their cases are cosmetic. Again, you would not know any of this since your knowledge of this surgery is from tiktok.

And yes, OD helps when your orbits are fine but your eyes are buggy, which is not uncommon even in non-diseased people. So it is far superior to implants in many cases.

 

[FRANKIEBIGBALLS]

Taban is a poorly skilled surgeon regardless of those points and there are better doctors (pretty much anyone else) for those procedures

Botched by Dr. Taban

 

[gosbo]

Yes, the fact that you have only done a Google search and a few seconds on a meme source like realself is the reason all of your information is incorrect. Most normie surgeons are not capable of performing a niche surgery like this.

There are different techniques for OD and the double vision rate differs greatly between them. Additionally the rate is higher for thyroid disease patients than cosmetic ones. Decompressing the medial wall or orbital floor is high risk, up to 30-40% especially in diseased patients. In cosmetic cases most good surgeons do only lateral or fat decompression as these are very safe. The best surgeons on earth have a 0-1% personal rate with these techniques which you would not know because you have not spoken to any of them or read their work.

Here are some sources:

Comparative effectiveness of various orbital decompression techniques in treating thyroid-associated ophthalmopathy: a systematic review and meta-analysis - BMC Ophthalmology

Background In thyroid-associated ophthalmopathy (TAO), orbital decompression is a critical surgical approach for functional and aesthetic reasons. Meanwhile, the presence of surgical complications, especially the new onset of primary gaze diplopia, also influences postoperative patient...

link.springer.com

3% incidence in lateral and in fat decompression, in diseased patients where the risk is innately higher

Aesthetic Deep Orbital Fat Decompression for Proptosis of Nonthyroidal Origin: A Case Series of 23 Patients - PubMed

Aesthetic deep orbital fat decompression appeared to be a safe and effective procedure for congenital proptosis, achieving significant cosmetic and functional improvements. However, future prospective investigations are warranted to establish its long-term safety and efficacy.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

0% incidence in cosmetic (non-diseased) fat decompression
This surgeon usually reports 1-3% though.

Orbital Bone Decompression for Non-Thyroid Eye Disease Proptosis - PubMed

Orbital decompression was safe and effective in reducing proptosis for non-thyroid eye disease indications in this series. The amount of exophthalmometry improvement was less in the inflammatory orbitopathy group compared with other proptosis etiology groups.Orbital decompression may have a role...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

0% incidence in cosmetic negative vector cases (and even in the diseased group here)

Expanding Role of Orbital Decompression in Aesthetic Surgery - PubMed

4.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Even Taban usually has low rates, here 0%.

The reason Taban botched Tufano is that he added the high risk medial wall to the operation for no good reason, probably for a bigger profit. I would not recommend Taban. There are only a handful of elite + ethical surgeons who can do this surgery safely. They are leaders of the field in caring for diseased patients yet a good proportion of their cases are cosmetic. Again, you would not know any of this since your knowledge of this surgery is from tiktok.

And yes, OD helps when your orbits are fine but your eyes are buggy, which is not uncommon even in non-diseased people. So it is far superior to implants in many cases.

Yk what, I read through everything, fair, me personally I have recessed infras but I don't think my eyes are Hamza tier buggy so I personally ain't tryna take the risk with OD

 

[jackinthebox]

Lower rid retraction looks really bad if you don’t actually need it. Most of tabans patients on the website didn’t need orbital decompression or lower lid retraction. Only the black guy looks good. The rest look uncanny.

I would not trust Taban. He’s just trying to sell you procedures it seems.

 

[Firstname.Lastname]

Taban is a poorly skilled surgeon regardless of those points and there are better doctors (pretty much anyone else) for those procedures

Botched by Dr. Taban

how much are tabans competitors paying you frank?

 

[jackinthebox]

how much are tabans competitors paying you frank?

Just look at his website. Those are his best results. Maybe 1-2 are good. Rest are age procedures or uncanny.