The debate

[yushmaxx]

Holy shit you are showing your intelligence.

Allowing suffering is not the same same as wanting or creating it

You see God at the end of the day is like a parent to us , sometimes a parent will allow a painful thing to happen for a greater good.

If God removed all evil this world would function differently

I have questions for you too you know

Like I said, HUMANS ALREADY GOT RID OF SMALLPOX.

NOTHING CHANGED!

God put it here to kill us.

You accept that humans didnt create smallpox right?

Feel free to ask me anything

 

[Brava]

Your 100% right god would allow a baby to die from small pox for the greater good. actual retard bro

Free will. The baby died because of others actions.

and at the end of they day Gods original world has changed so evil has came in due to the sinning of Eve and Adam

 

[moliuny]

Insanely high iq post

bro this nga legit dnr'd everything dude didnt read a single character

 

[Brava]

Like I said, HUMANS ALREADY GOT RID OF SMALLPOX.

NOTHING CHANGED!

God put it here to kill us.

You accept that humans didnt create smallpox right?

Feel free to ask me anything

Did you not read what I said about this earths purpose and evil coming in here because of even and Adam sinning ? There used to be no sin but after the one sin, sin stayed with us in this world and still does

 

[Brava]

My question , If God had a morally sufficient reason for allowing smallpox, would that mean your argument no longer proves God doesn’t exist?

 

[NoidFiggerJew67]

Free will. The baby died because of others actions.

and at the end of they day Gods original world has changed so evil has came in due to the sinning of Eve and Adam

if a baby is born with cancer what then. you can't possibly say free will if no one did anything. if a baby is born into a healthy family in a secluded area where no human intervention causes a higher risk of cancer then how is that free will or others actions

 

[yushmaxx]

Obviously not. Christians don’t believe in that

dude debate over, its 2026

theres entire textbooks full of evidence for evolution

just to start, how do you explain the millions of extinct animal fossils that humans have found over millennia’s

let me guess: god put them there to test our faith


also what type of christian are you, my bio teacher (bless her soul, shes great), is christian and teaches evolution for a living)

 

[yushmaxx]

My question , If God had a morally sufficient reason for allowing smallpox, would that mean your argument no longer proves God doesn’t exist?

Yes. But there is a good reason atheists love smallpox as an example, even more than cancer. There is no moral reason since it has been eradicated by humans.

The fight against smallpox is actually such a fascinating topic, we basically vaccinated everyone on earth (hyperbole) to get rid of it

 

[Brava]

if a baby is born with cancer what then. you can't possibly say free will if no one did anything. if a baby is born into a healthy family in a secluded area where no human intervention causes a higher risk of cancer then how is that free will or others actions

Rare situations

This world full of sin now unfortunately, like I said because of Adam and Eve’s sin we now live in a world full of sin where many evil things happen

 

[yushmaxx]

Did you not read what I said about this earths purpose and evil coming in here because of even and Adam sinning ? There used to be no sin but after the one sin, sin stayed with us in this world and still does

So smallpox is a punishment for all humans, for the sins of two humans?

Also, since god knew all humans would sin, why did he create us in this way.

Am going to bed.

Will be back tomorrow.

 

[ProBono]

I just want to know if you are familiar with the epicurean paradox

View attachment 5282448

I'm agnostic but I disagree on the free will part, if you consider free will as inherent to the fall of Satan, there wouldn't be free will if there wasn't a capacity for evil, so it just becomes a logical paradox on the same level as can god make an infinitely hard object that he can't break or something

 

[Brava]

Yes. But there is a good reason atheists love smallpox as an example, even more than cancer. There is no moral reason since it has been eradicated by humans.

The fight against smallpox is actually such a fascinating topic, we basically vaccinated everyone on earth (hyperbole) to get rid of it

the reason is this world , not being perfect , you realize we aren’t in heaven we’re everything is perfect. This world is full of sinners and sin and evil

 

[NoidFiggerJew67]

Rare situations

This world full of sin now unfortunately, like I said because of Adam and Eve’s sin we now live in a world full of sin where many evil things happen

so you can believe thats a rare situation but you can't believe a rare situation like inorganic molecules coming together to form simple organic molecules

 

[foidkiller42]

I just want to know if you are familiar with the epicurean paradox

View attachment 5282448

when god asks us a question its not for answers.

 

[Brava]

I'm agnostic but I disagree on the free will part, if you consider free will as inherent to the fall of Satan, there wouldn't be free will if there wasn't a capacity for evil, so it just becomes a logical paradox on the same level as can god make an infinitely hard object that he can't break or something

That doesn’t make sense. Free will isn’t a “gift” from God, it isn’t even tied to evil of this world, God is just giving us this so he can see what we pick and what we do , the temptations , our choices

 

[birthdefect]

the reason is this world , not being perfect , you realize we aren’t in heaven we’re everything is perfect. This world is full of sinners and sin and evil

just curious
do you believe in free will?
if yes, do you think that the concept of free will is contradictory to the concept of god's omnipotence?

btw you're being debate mogged as we speak

 

[Brava]

so you can believe thats a rare situation but you can't believe a rare situation like inorganic molecules coming together to form simple organic molecules

The chances of something like thag happening is so much more rarer than a baby being born with cancer. Also I don’t like how you just ignored the main part to my argument that debunks your original claim about the baby

 

[ProBono]

That doesn’t make sense. Free will isn’t a “gift” from God, it isn’t even tied to evil of this world, God is just giving us this so he can see what we pick and what we do , the temptations , our choices

couldn't the same argument be made of Satan and god's angels though? I'm not saying it's a gift, I'm saying it's inherent in god's creations because he creates of himself and therefore part of his infinite freedom is inherent to those made in his image.

 

[Brava]

just curious
do you believe in free will?
if yes, do you think that the concept of free will is contradictory to the concept of god's omnipotence?

btw you're being debate mogged as we speak
View attachment 5282526

How could our free will be anything close to God power , If anything God gave us this free will .

lol I think that is bros like 5 thread about psl and appeal bs

 

[Brava]

couldn't the same argument be made of Satan and god's angels though? I'm not saying it's a gift, I'm saying it's inherent in god's creations because he creates of himself and therefore part of his infinite freedom is inherent to those made in his image.

That’s literally what happens with Stan. And many of the Gods angels left with Stan because of free will

 

[birthdefect]

How could our free will be anything close to God power , If anything God gave us this free will .

lol I think that is bros like 5 thread about psl and appeal bs

sorry i mixed it up
i meant omniscience
do you think the concepts of free will and god being all knowing contradict each other?

 

[Brava]

sorry i mixed it up
i meant omniscience
do you think the concepts of free will and god being all knowing contradict each other?

It does not. If you mean by like how free will can make god think that we will make the wrong choice , then no

At the end of the day he is a God , so he knows everything

I think one thing that helps with Beleiving in god is understanding that he is a God , and imagining that he can do anything , some things for us humans are hard to understand so maybe some things we should avoid overthinking on

At the end of the day if Christian’s are wrong we just get sent to space and fly around, but if we are right we get the best reward possiblr

(I don’t claim to be Christian btw , although I grew up Christian )

 

[OsamaFr33Balling]

@OsamaFr33Balling

Wat

 

[birthdefect]

It does not. If you mean by like how free will can make god think that we will make the wrong choice , then no

At the end of the day he is a God , so he knows everything

I think one thing that helps with Beleiving in god is understanding that he is a God , and imagining that he can do anything , some things for us humans are hard to understand so maybe some things we should avoid overthinking on

At the end of the day if Christian’s are wrong we just get sent to space and fly around, but if we are right we get the best reward possiblr

(I don’t claim to be Christian btw , although I grew up Christian )

what kinda response even is this
nigga told me to not think too hard about it
free will and omniscience cant exist together afaik
if you claim your all powerful god is all knowing as well, then we dont have freewill thus we cant be punished for our actions
and if we do have free will then god isnt all knowing thus violating your own rules

 

[Brava]

what kinda response even is this
nigga told me to not think too hard about it
free will and omniscience cant exist together afaik
if you claim your all powerful god is all knowing as well, then we dont have freewill thus we cant be punished for our actions
and if we do have free will then god isnt all knowing thus violating your own rules

Yea sorry this wasn’t really a good explanation. The thing is knowledge does not cause an action. What God knows (your choice) he doesn’t force you out of your choice, the choice always still stands

At the end of the day your definition of free will can shift this argument

 

[birthdefect]

Yea sorry this wasn’t really a good explanation. The thing is knowledge does not cause an action. What God knows (your choice) he doesn’t force you out of your choice, the choice always still stands

At the end of the day your definition of free will can shift this argument

knowledge doesnt directly cause an action but if god is guaranteed to know something then you're forced to choose it
you're indirectly pushed down that path anyways because if you weren't god would be wrong

 

[Brava]

knowledge doesnt directly cause an action but if god is guaranteed to know something then you're forced to choose it
you're indirectly pushed down that path anyways because if you weren't god would be wrong

If you know who the winner of the World Cup would be ,you knew the score , who scored , what minute , all the details , and you knew this before anyone else, even the players who will play in the World Cup , your knowledge doesn’t cause the players to make those plays that make them win

 

[birthdefect]

If you know who the winner of the World Cup would be ,you knew the score , who scored , what minute , all the details , and you knew this before anyone else, even the players who will play in the World Cup , your knowledge doesn’t cause the players to make those plays that make them win

lets assume that the knowledge is absolutely guaranteed to be correct
yes the knowledge doesn't make it so they win, but it means that there is no other outcome
nothing else can occur because if something else happened, the knowledge would be wrong which violates the initial premise

 

[Brava]

lets assume that the knowledge is absolutely guaranteed to be correct
yes the knowledge doesn't make it so they win, but it means that there is no other outcome
nothing else can occur because if something else happened, the knowledge would be wrong which violates the initial premise

But in their lives they believe that there are possibilities of them losing , so they play hard enough to win.

 

[birthdefect]

But in their lives they believe that there are possibilities of them losing , so they play hard enough to win.

yes, their actions to them arent changed, but their future is set in stone
this violates free will, but they wont even notice
now extend this to a persons entire life where they will be punished for their sins and rewarded for their virtues
wouldn't it be unjust to punish someone for something that they couldnt even prevent, and to top it off they didnt even know that they couldnt prevent it?

 

[Brava]

yes, their actions to them arent changed, but their future is set in stone
this violates free will, but they wont even notice
now extend this to a persons entire life where they will be punished for their sins and rewarded for their virtues
wouldn't it be unjust to punish someone for something that they couldnt even prevent, and to top it off they didnt even know that they couldnt prevent it?

This is where things get tricky. Pretty much from here we need to understand. Was this person able to do something else instead of the sin (was this sin 100% done by you, was it avoidable ) a big problem in here is the intent , which could be an outside influence that does not get created within the same time period when you commit the sin or plan to do so.

 

[birthdefect]

This is where things get tricky. Pretty much from here we need to understand. Was this person able to do something else instead of the sin (was this sin 100% done by you, was it avoidable ) a big problem in here is the intent , which could be an outside influence that does not get created within the same time period when you commit the sin or plan to do so.

if god knew you were going to sin, you couldnt have done anything else but sin

 

[Brava]

if god knew you were going to sin, you couldnt have done anything else but sin

Like I said it’s the intent that gets judged here.

 

[birthdefect]

Like I said it’s the intent that gets judged here.

but god knew your intent as well
thus your intent is also locked in, just like the action

 

[Brava]

but god knew your intent as well
thus your intent is also locked in, just like the action

But these are still your desires , yes God knows them but you choose this for yourself , especially for people who aren’t believers , they don’t really realize stuff like this for themselves

 

[birthdefect]

But these are still your desires , yes God knows them but you choose this for yourself , especially for people who aren’t believers , they don’t really realize stuff like this for themselves

you've just looped back
how can you choose it for yourself in a truly free manner if god already knew without a doubt what you were going to pick? its already set in stone, you're going down the only path possible

 

[Brava]

you've just looped back
how can you choose it for yourself in a truly free manner if god already knew without a doubt what you were going to pick? its already set in stone, you're going down the only path possible

You are saying this like we aren’t different beings from God , like God is our brain , God gave us free will. Imagine yourself as a parent knowing that your child will do something bad like not sharing their toys with siblings ,

At the end of the day 1 sin won’t send you to hell, repenting is available , and getting closer to God gets your frother from sin.

 

[birthdefect]

You are saying this like we aren’t different beings from God , like God is our brain , God gave us free will. Imagine yourself as a parent knowing that your child will do something bad like not sharing their toys with siblings ,

At the end of the day 1 sin won’t send you to hell, repenting is available , and getting closer to God gets your frother from sin.

if the parents knowledge was guaranteed to be true without a shadow of a doubt then the childs path was guaranteed
but ofc comparing god to people is a shit analogy anyways
if you repent from the sin that also was guaranteed to happen because of the free will and omniscience thing, so you didnt freely choose that either

 

[Iblamelarper]

Free will. The baby died because of others actions.

and at the end of they day Gods original world has changed so evil has came in due to the sinning of Eve and Adam

Ignorance is the biggest sin if someone is getting raped infront of you and you just see that and do nothing it means you're also in wrong

 

[Brava]

Ignorance is the biggest sin if someone is getting raped infront of you and you just see that and do nothing it means you're also in wrong

Where is this coming from ?

 

[Brava]

if the parents knowledge was guaranteed to be true without a shadow of a doubt then the childs path was guaranteed
but ofc comparing god to people is a shit analogy anyways
if you repent from the sin that also was guaranteed to happen because of the free will and omniscience thing, so you didnt freely choose that either

but how did you not. If you geniunley choose to shoot someone , that’s YOUR choice, nothing else is in between you, God is just who is above all seeing shit in spectator mor except he has mods and shit

 

[Iblamelarper]

Where is this coming from ?

basic sense jfl , how can creator be called all good when he just creates us and just now is sitting and seeing all drama creation doesn't guarantee him being good just like a parent isn't instantly good just because he/she born us he/she should also raise us with care if he just left us in a fucking road and give name of free will he doesn't become good. TBH I believe morality immorality all are superficial the reason I don't believe in any creator is because ik he ain't doing nothing and praising him if he hasn't done anything seems wrong btw creator wouldn't show himself to us jfl

 

[Brava]

basic sense jfl , how can creator be called all good when he just creates us and just now is sitting and seeing all drama creation doesn't guarantee him being good just like a parent isn't instantly good just because he/she born us he/she should also raise us with care if he just left us in a fucking road and give name of free will he doesn't become good. TBH I believe morality immorality all are superficial the reason I don't believe in any creator is because ik he ain't doing nothing and praising him if he hasn't done anything seems wrong btw creator wouldn't show himself to us jfl

Do you think (and this question is fully out of curiosity ) that every question or debate about God must be debunked for you (in favor of Gods existence ) in order for you to believe in God , And I mean EVERY debate or question ?

 

[Iblamelarper]

Do you think (and this question is fully out of curiosity ) that every question or debate about God must be debunked for you (in favor of Gods existence ) in order for you to believe in nGod , And I mean EVERY debate or question ?

tbh I wouldn't ever be in favor of God even if some religion's God gets proven if a god is only granting it's believers something that he doesn't provides to all then he isn't better than Devil, and if he isn't providing anyone anything and just enjoying the show then what's point of praising someone that just exist for sole purpose of existing.

 

[Brava]

tbh I wouldn't ever be in favor of God even if some religion's God gets proven if a god is only granting it's believers something that he doesn't provides to all then he isn't better than Devil, and if he isn't providing anyone anything and just enjoying the show then what's point of praising someone that just exist for sole purpose of existing.

Fairs. But if he’s the only way to eternal life ?

 

[Iblamelarper]

Fairs. But if he’s the only way to eternal life ?

I don't think a creator that can do anything would want slaves lol

 

[Brava]

I don't think a creator that can do anything would want slaves lol

This is where I get lost too. Unfortunately. I’m really 50/50 in this

 

[Iblamelarper]

This is where I get lost too. Unfortunately. I’m really 50/50 in this

It's ok bhai nothing bad in contemplating your own thoughts

 

[Brava]

It's ok bhai nothing bad in contemplating your own thoughts

I’ve had this belief for a while ngl. But honestly I think I’ll still end up Christian especially when it’s time to raise kids. I appreciate how I was raised by my parents , I want the same if not better for my children