The Effects of Estrogen on Spinal Growth (15-19 CELS GTFIH)

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TLDR: We can learn from these studies that epiphysial fusion works differently in our vertebrae (like known previously) and that estradiol doesn’t age and inhibit the growth in our vertebrae as strongly as seen in other long bones like the tibia and femur. This idea is also demonstrated through the fact that naturally, our spines are the last growth plates to close at 18, exemplifying that estrogen needs to peak in our body for even longer times for it to close. This is also the reason why our clavicles take so long to experience complete epiphyseal fusion. This means that growth can still continue at 17,18, and possibly 19 if the spinal growth plates are open and you take high doses of AI’s and HGH.​


The spinal growth dilemma​

On this forum, there has been confusion and a lack of knowledge on how spinal growth works and if spinal growth plates are affected by estrogen the same way that other long bones are. We only know that spinal growth plates are the last growth plates open that affect height growth as they usually close at 18 years old. However, most people don’t see much growth after the age of 16-17 usually, despite spinal growth plates most likely being very open. So this has led me on a short journey to finding studies that demonstrate the effect of estrogen on spinal growth and fusion to possibly see if we can prevent its closure. And I was able to find two studies that discussed and described the effects of estrogen on spinal growth plates, one in female mice, and one in tall girls.

The effects of estrogen in spinal growth plates of mice:​

The first study we will analyze is the mice study. It is called, “Estrogen Receptor-β Inhibits Skeletal Growth and Has the Capacity to Mediate Growth Plate Fusion in Female Mice.” In this study, they used three different types of knockout mice: mice with no functioning estrogen receptor alpha (ERα), mice with no functioning estrogen receptor beta (ERβ), and mice that lacked both estrogen receptors and compared each mouse model’s vertebrae and long bone growth to each other’s. Moreover, the ERα-less mice were also exposed to supraphysiological levels of estradiol during the study and when the growth plate morphology of the mice was analyzed again 18 months later, all of the mice that had no functioning ERα and had supraphysiological levels of estradiol experienced complete epiphysial in their femur and tibia. In contrast to the other mice models, which still all had open growth plates in their tibia and femur. However, all mice models, even the ones exposed to high levels of estradiol, had open vertebra growth plates and all had the same height of the spine.
This demonstrates that the cause of growth plate fusion in the vertebrae works in a different manner than other long bones. However, this difference in effects may be because the growth plates in the spine are less sensitive to estrogen as seen in the next study.

The Effects of Estrogen on Spinal Growth in Tall Girls​


In this study, they analyze the effects of estradiol treatment on the bodily proportions of tall girls who want to reduce their final adult height. So before the estradiol treatment, these girls were expected to gain 5.4 cm in their sitting height (vertebra) and 4.4 cm in their leg length ( long bones like the tibia and femur) before their estimated growth plate closure. So they were expected to grow 9.8cm before growth plate fusion. However, after estradiol treatment, the girls only gained 2.9 cm in their sitting height, and 0.8 cm in their leg length by the time of growth plate fusion.

We can conclude from this study that estrogen has a less powerful effect in inhibiting growth and causing rapid growth plate aging in our vertebrae than compared to our other long bones like the tibia and femur.
 
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BUMP
 
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ideal BF percentage to prevent estrogen closing my growth plates ?
 
Good post.
 
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DISCLAIMER: to anyone reading my thread who wants to pursue spinal growth, keep in mind you need to stimulate HGH pretty heavily. I'd imagine in the areas of like 4-8 IU'S per day ( depending on age and how close your spine is to epiphyseal fusion.)
This is because, unlike your legs, your spine grows at a much slower rate. Your spine grows at a rate of 15mm/year at age 7.5 to 4mm/year at age 20. This is the reason why scoliosis progresses in young men despite the growth plate closure of all other long bones.
And the only way to increase the growth rate is through HGH.
PM if you should think I should make a thread about the spinal growth rate.
 
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Good research bro
 
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Good research bro
Thanks, the reason why I made this thread was because of your prior question on this same topic:
https://looksmax.org/threads/height...al-vs-long-bone-closure-from-estrogen.467986/

BTW, the reason why aromatase-deficient men don't have absurdly long spines is because of their chronically low levels of IGF-1 and GH secretion. Estradiol stimulates growth hormone secretion and is one of the factors that contribute to the growth spurt you get during puberty.

TEENASCENDER

As we can see in this image I stole from your thread, aromatase-deficient men just have super long legs and relatively normal/small spines.
1646538920490-jpeg.1578382

And we have to keep in mind that the spine already grows at a very slow rate already (it's highest speed is 15mm/year at the bone age of 7.5 years old). So pairing that with the fact that aromatase-deficient men have reduced IGF-1 and GH levels and usually have a bone age between 14-16 years old, and growth in their spines will appear normal. However, we still have to realize that their spines are probably still pretty long and is higher than their genetic target, as their spine has continued to grow past the age of 18. For example, the average vertebrae grow 4mm at the bone age of 20 years old and let's say the man in this image is 36 years old. He would technically have 6.4 cm of height to his body in those 16 years between 20 and 36.


This also applies to an aromatase deficient's man long bones like their tibias and femur, however, due to the fact that the tibias and femur have a much higher growth rate in the human body normally (2.5cm-6cm/year considering bone age is between ages of 14-16). the growth is much more noticeable.
 

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last bump of the night
 
Hello OP, I'm 17 years old and 1,88m, how much can I realistically grow until 20? Can I use HGH supplements? Should I drink milk?
 
Hello OP, I'm 17 years old and 1,88m, how much can I realistically grow until 20? Can I use HGH supplements? Should I drink milk?
If you can get generic HGH ( Chinese HGH) or MK677 ( but have to use it at high doses and pair it with l-arginine, CDP-citicoline, Alpha GPC, and Vitamin B6), then you can have a chance. However, at 17, your spinal growth plates are closing and you can probably get another 2-4 cm.
 
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If you can get generic HGH ( Chinese HGH) or MK677 ( but have to use it at high doses and pair it with l-arginine, CDP-citicoline, Alpha GPC, and Vitamin B6), then you can have a chance. However, at 17, your spinal growth plates are closing and you can probably get another 2-4 cm.
That's a lot of things to buy. Is it even worth it?
 
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If only I didn’t already have a long spine. I envy slenderman proportioncels.
 
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No, height growth is pointless for the most part after 5'10-11 unless you're an athlete.
It's not pointless! I need some more height - all of my friends are as tall as I am, if not more.
 
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If you can get generic HGH ( Chinese HGH) or MK677 ( but have to use it at high doses and pair it with l-arginine, CDP-citicoline, Alpha GPC, and Vitamin B6), then you can have a chance. However, at 17, your spinal growth plates are closing and you can probably get another 2-4 cm.
Wouldn't HGH lead to excess estrogen and in a way also counter-interact with itself ?
 
Wouldn't HGH lead to excess estrogen and in a way also counter-interact with itself ?
You use an aromatase inhibitor to prevent growth plate closure.
 
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It's not pointless! I need some more height - all of my friends are as tall as I am, if not more.
Then do what it takes to achieve the growth that you desire.
 
I am on dut now and have a bit high e,Still growing at 23.
 
A legit 10%-13%
Bhai my body fat falls within 17-18% range,if i leanmaxx harder the body'll be deprived of adequate nutrition and caloric intake i would imagine?
 
ideal BF percentage to prevent estrogen closing my growth plates ?
It's a myth tbh. I've almost been sub15% bf all throughout my puberty and grew to be 6'6 while my bro has been over 30% and grew to be 6'6 as well. Height unfortunately is not a trait that can be changed effectively just with epigenetics unlike your facial features and hormone production.
 
Bhai my body fat falls within 17-18% range,if i leanmaxx harder the body'll be deprived of adequate nutrition and caloric intake i would imagine?
You can lean out safely yk? You can still get all your required macronutrients and proteins, and fats if you track calories, but eat at a restricted calorie intake. Working out more will help with this or just playing more sports and burning more calories will make it easier. Also using aromatase inhibitor makes up for this problem if you don't want to lose body fat.
 
DISCLAIMER: to anyone reading my thread who wants to pursue spinal growth, keep in mind you need to stimulate HGH pretty heavily. I'd imagine in the areas of like 4-8 IU'S per day ( depending on age and how close your spine is to epiphyseal fusion.)
This is because, unlike your legs, your spine grows at a much slower rate. Your spine grows at a rate of 15mm/year at age 7.5 to 4mm/year at age 20. This is the reason why scoliosis progresses in young men despite the growth plate closure of all other long bones.
And the only way to increase the growth rate is through HGH.
PM if you should think I should make a thread about the spinal growth rate.
Can scoliosis be fixed at 21?
 
It's a myth tbh. I've almost been sub15% bf all throughout my puberty and grew to be 6'6 while my bro has been over 30% and grew to be 6'6 as well. Height unfortunately is not a trait that can be changed effectively just with epigenetics unlike your facial features and hormone production.
Yes, your growth plates will close at it's destined time regardless of what you do naturally. However, it's been shown that overweight and obese children have a much higher bone age than normally weighted children. And the older you're bone age, the less time you have to grow.

HHE

Not saying you guys stunted each other's growth, however, being one on either side of the spectrum can reduce growth potential possibly. If you're too fat your whole life, your growth plates will close earlier but you will receive higher IGF-1 so you will equal. If you're too skinny (sub 11% you're whole childhood), you won't ever receive the adequate micronutrients and IGF-1 levels to grow at a rapid pace. So while you'll experience a growth spurt later on in life (14-15-16 years old), you'll be shorter than you were predicted to be. However, regardless there are exceptions to all of these things, however, it's best to stay at lower but healthy body fat to maximize height potential naturally.
 
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I'm pretty sure but I think it requires surgery.

I have to report to military bootcamp in 4 months meaning I'm not going to be able to heightmax when I'm being obsessively observed by my military sergeants for 9 weeks.

Is it worth dosing aromasin following up to my 9 weeks without dosing aromasin.

Just so I can have open plates after my 9 week bootcamp and then start heightmaxing?
 
DISCLAIMER: to anyone reading my thread who wants to pursue spinal growth, keep in mind you need to stimulate HGH pretty heavily. I'd imagine in the areas of like 4-8 IU'S per day ( depending on age and how close your spine is to epiphyseal fusion.)
This is because, unlike your legs, your spine grows at a much slower rate. Your spine grows at a rate of 15mm/year at age 7.5 to 4mm/year at age 20. This is the reason why scoliosis progresses in young men despite the growth plate closure of all other long bones.
And the only way to increase the growth rate is through HGH.
PM if you should think I should make a thread about the spinal growth rate.
Yep bro. Am same sitting down with my 5'4 sis when am 5'10 . My torso is short. Its only 17.5 can streching increase it?
 
If you can get generic HGH ( Chinese HGH) or MK677 ( but have to use it at high doses and pair it with l-arginine, CDP-citicoline, Alpha GPC, and Vitamin B6), then you can have a chance. However, at 17, your spinal growth plates are closing and you can probably get another 2-4 cm.
Why both cdp choline and alpha gpc?
 
Can u tell me how much am loosing height ins spien due to these problems?
 

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Your gonna be the heightmaxxing God on here bro, if you combine all the threads you’ve made
 
Reminder hopeful zoomers, I stopped growing at like 15 5'8. Its over!
 
Reminder hopeful zoomers, I stopped growing at like 15 5'8. Its over!
at what age did your iq surpass the 103 point i feel like i may have plateaued
 
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Reminder hopeful zoomers, I stopped growing at like 15 5'8. Its over!
I also remember measuring my wrists at 16 @6.3", still 6.3"
 
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