The history of facial/body aesthetics pre 21st century

[alurmo]

I've always been kinda critical of the theory of ratios, but I think it can be very accurate, like when looking at a bad ratio face is obviously not good looking, and the inverse is true, but well, these superficial questions are useless without context, and ultimately, history is the best context you can recieve

The pre rennaisance periods of beauty
ancient egypt
​

My first speculations on the origin were ancient Greece, but I discovered there was a society before that, the great ancient Egyptians, and upon researching their ideas about beauty, it became clear, they indeed had great instincts for beauty, as they had inclinations for immortalizing what they thought were beautiful, however unrealistic, they valued facial beauty, and it shows

As seen by Queen Nefertiti in all her beauty

Although by today's standards this may be seen as a mtb, back then it was the peak aesthetic*

The invention of ideal ratios could be classified as being born in Egypt, as the Egyptians made the proportional canons which held influence upto the Renaissance era

This posed the idea that the world has ratios and there could be perfect or near-perfect ratios

a New start in the ancient world



Ancient greece

​

And after the Egyptians went, so along came the amazing Greeks, who could have derived their interest and cultivation of beauty from the Egyptians, and followed in the Egyptians' footsteps. Ancient Greece went through 3 major periods of inventions and appearance: the archaic, the classical, and the Hellenistic period

One of the important eras, in my opinion, is the archaic period. It was the foundation of the future of the Greek aesthetic. Firstly, the Greeks abandoned the geometrical forms of the Egyptians and opted for a more earthly art, a more natural appearance and interpretation of art,

From my research, there were many depictions of young men and what the ideal young man looks like
mostly being called kouroi statues, they were modelled after the attributes of Apollo (the god of order/the sun), and thought to be the epitome of excellence at the time, kourois had broad shoulders, narrow waist and long hair, since sculpting was a aristocratic and long art, it was reserved for the best gods who could offer the sculptor his dreams, so this sacred art resulted in a beautiful appearance of sculpture for the reason to give to the gods

Moving onto the classical period, the importance of looks became more apparent, and art began improving rapidly due to competition between sculptors, as well as the fact that the Greeks had many gods that they wanted to represent in human form, almost like a way to give the public an idealized version of man to strive towards
This era of Greek sculpture produced, in my opinion, some of the most aesthetic works man has ever seen

But then what could be the source of these incredible creations of man with his proportions, well firstly in the ancient age it could be a good muse, as well as the works of pythagoras's influence on the sculptor, and talking about pythagoras he played a great deal in the mathematification of beauty, saying that beauty could be explained through mathematical laws and laws of proportions, and yet again in the modern sense these are all ratios more or less

What is admirable of this period was how far they came from the Egyptians, going from rigid grid systems where the human figure was pasted onto a grid to estimate each part of the body to the grid, to the ancient greek sculptors who instead chose first what they can see by looking at good looking athletes and then after that trying to calculate how parts of the body related to the rest in their definition of proportion

The age of Vitruvius​

Skipping over the hellenistic period which was a rehash of the classical period without the creativity, the greeks were eventually conquered by the romans, in that period many sculptors were destroyed as a result of greece being used as a battle ground, for a while teh sentiment around greek art was seen as destructive until a sudden shift in mentality, which made the attitude towards greek art more positive, as in ancient rome where the architect, vitruvius, was leaning towards a greek attitude towards art, but with a great deal of symmetrical and proportional insight, calling human figure a building and a great human figure a perfect building
Vitruvius created the facial third system as well, expanding on this idea in his book called 'on symmetry

‘For the human body is so designed by nature that theface, from the chin to the top of the forehead and the lowest roots of the hair, is a tenth part of the whole height;... the head from the chin to the crown is an eighth, andwith the neck and shoulder from the top of the breast to the lowest roots of the hair is a sixth; from the middle of the breast to the summit of the crown is a fourth.If we take the height of the face itself, the distance fromthe bottom of the chin to the under side of the nostrils is one third of it; the nose from the under side of the nostrils to a line between the eyebrows is the same; from there tothe lowest roots of the hair is also a third, comprising the forehead.... The other individual parts, too, have their own symmetrical proportions, and it was by employing them thatthe famous painters and sculptors of antiquity attained to great and endless renown.

Unbeknownst to vitruvius his works would survive to the Renaissance period to be dissected by the analysts of the future

The new age of innovators

Leon Battista Alberti​

From what ive read the rest of the ancient roman parts isnt that relevant so im travelling to the period of the renaissance, which had a nack for antiquity, it showed in its art, which depicted the figures of the socratic school and the people of athens through paintings, perhaps a superior means of art compared to marble for some, the first figure of discussion is Leon Battista Alberti, again a architect like the former figure, he held great knowledge, known across the european rennaissance era, his opinions on beauty was unique at the time and i quote from his definition of beauty

Beauty is a form of consonance of the parts within a body(manifested as proportional correspondence in the partsand in the whole), according to number, shape and position, such that nothing may be added, taken away oraltered, but for the worse, as dictated by the absolute andfundamental rule of Nature.

his interest in paintings also made him have a interest in human proportion, causing him to write that human proportion holds great relationship to beauty

‘care must be taken above all that all the individual parts[of the body] accord well with one another ... one mustobserve a certain conformity in regard to the size ofindividual parts.

As Nature clearly and openly reveals all these proportions, so the zealous painter will find great profit frominvestigating them in Nature for himself?

​

The biggest invention of Alberti was his idea of ideal proportions through rigorous measurements. I commend him in this because, according to the source, he measured aesthetic people directly for this and numerically created a system of proportion

Leonardo da Vinci​

Leonardo da Vinci, a figure from the Renaissance era who also held weight, his name is known across many spaces, also had his theories on beauty, but his approach was more facial, with him mapping out the ideal ratios of the face, as well as contouring the Vitruvian Man, which is an interpretation of the previous figures who tried at what is 'ideal'
Da Vinci learned the most about beauty in his Milanese period, where he came up with his own theory of art, with a combination of his notebooks and sketches, Leonardo attempted a great stick at finding the ideal facial proportion

You could say in a way da Vinci was the og looks analyst, as he went out of his way to understand what is beautiful

Albrecht Dürer​

Still in the same period as da vinci, he was also a artist, and had great interest in beauty, but his opinions on beauty differ, as he thought there was no absolutes and no ideals in beauty, he believed in a form of relative beauty, instead of a singiluar principle for the ideal, he presented a array of proportions based on body type
Although he was not native to the Italian taste, he learned from the classical writers of Italy, fulfilling a destiny and continuing the search for the ideal proportions
Dürer's works laid the foundation for fields in the modern era; his 4 books on human proportion are still a significant source of knowledge to this day.

The enlightened taste ​

During this period of intellectual high thought, many great concepts evolved, like dimorphism, averagenes, the importance of specific features, and how they connect with each other, great theories that still hold weight
The error of this era was trying to copy the previous eras too much.
Like always rome had always left its mark on outsiders, seen by Durer and in the Enlightenment through Audran
Audran, after studying in Rome for a few years, measured and studied the relationships between statues to find the ideal

The craniometry era of aesthetics​

The biggest figure in this is Petrus Camper, as he developed the facial angle, and to add to that, he created the Camper's plane, which is defined as this, by quoting the source

angle is formed by the intersection of two lines: the vertical linea facialis, from the front of the maxillary incisor teeth to the most prominent part of the forehead, and the horizontal line from the nasal base (or anterior nasal spine in askull) to the mid-tragus of the ear (or middle of the external auditory meatus in a skull)​

Proto-modern facial aesthetics​

The creator or father of modern craniofacial anthropology would be Leslie Farkas, with his resources in the field, leading it in a good direction
His book, called ANTHROPOMETRIC FACIAL PROPORTIONS IN MEDICINE, left its great influence on a lot of fields

Other topics
the golden ratio​

With the course of history, everything has been made mathematical and measurable, now of course this fate would happen to faces, resultin gin the idea of the golden ratio, altough the golden ratio is a very interesting topic and one thats still ongoing, wether its true or not, i dont have the geometrical capacity to discuss it, i mean i barely understand it


@Sceptical @6ft4 @Ghost Philosophy @SouthAfricancel

 

[alurmo]

@wishIwasSalludon
@Bitchwhipper2

 

[Sceptical]

mirin high effort
my low iq brain couldn't understand most of it though

 

[Deleted member 51358]

Interesting

 

[alurmo]

Interesting

oof bumperino tho, i spent a good amount of time on this

 

[alurmo]

mirin high effort
my low iq brain couldn't understand most of it though

srs bump

 

[Sceptical]

srs bump

bumping only for greys to come here to dnr and rep farm

 

[zudlife]

Didnt read but looks high iq

 

[alurmo]

@comingthrough
@BigBallsLarry

 

[Ghost Philosophy]

Nice to see a high effort post.

 

[Fridx]

Mirin
Bump

 

[Ghost Philosophy]

Mirin
Bump

Bumping a thread that was bumped a second ago.

 

[Fridx]

Bumping a thread that was bumped a second ago.

Bump

 

[alurmo]

Nice to see a high effort post.

This thread sucked the life out of me, I worry my writing style is too boring and teacher-like
Nonetheless, I put research into the thread, and it axually holds valuable info unlike the shitwall of off-topic. I wonder if I can at least get this thread pinned

 

[cryptt]

Looks like a good read bookmarked

 

[alurmo]

Looks like a good read bookmarked

thx brah

 

[Ghost Philosophy]

Bump

High T BVLLtivities.

 

[Ghost Philosophy]

This thread sucked the life out of me, I worry my writing style is too boring and teacher-like
Nonetheless, I put research into the thread, and it axually holds valuable info unlike the shitwall of off-topic. I wonder if I can at least get this thread pinned

Don’t worry about it, it’s a nice write-up. And yeah, if you get 20 reacts I’ll sticky it.

 

[cryptt]

Where do yall even read about this stuff?

 

[LTNUser]

Vinci's work on looks is probably the best in ancient era
He was ahead of his time

 

[Soter]

the greeks were eventually conquered by the romans, in that period many sculptors were destroyed as a result of greece being used as a battle ground, for a while teh sentiment around greek art was seen as destructive until a sudden shift in mentality, which made the attitude towards greek art more positive

By the time the romans got involved in greece, greek culture was already seen as elite, the senators had been commissioning statues of themselves, a lot of greek statues were copied as well (a lot of currently surviving greek statues are roman copies). Also they destroyed a small quantity of statues compared to what they LOOTED and carried back to rome

also check out this gallic chad

 

[alurmo]

Yo @nestivv @0hMan
Can yall pin this or smt

 

[0hMan]

Yo @nestivv @0hMan
Can yall pin this or smt

Sure, do you want me to pin here or in looksmaxxing? Very high IQ, botb worthy imo

 

[alurmo]

Sure, do you want me to pin here or in looksmaxxing? Very high IQ, botb worthy imo

its your choice, i only posted it in the offtopic section bc of my habits of posting it here, but if it would fit more in the lm section then sure

 

[BigBallsLarry]

I've always been kinda critical of the theory of ratios, but I think it can be very accurate, like when looking at a bad ratio face is obviously not good looking, and the inverse is true, but well, these superficial questions are useless without context, and ultimately, history is the best context you can recieve

The pre rennaisance periods of beauty
ancient egypt
​

My first speculations on the origin were ancient Greece, but I discovered there was a society before that, the great ancient Egyptians, and upon researching their ideas about beauty, it became clear, they indeed had great instincts for beauty, as they had inclinations for immortalizing what they thought were beautiful, however unrealistic, they valued facial beauty, and it shows

As seen by Queen Nefertiti in all her beauty

Although by today's standards this may be seen as a mtb, back then it was the peak aesthetic*

The invention of ideal ratios could be classified as being born in Egypt, as the Egyptians made the proportional canons which held influence upto the Renaissance era

This posed the idea that the world has ratios and there could be perfect or near-perfect ratios

a New start in the ancient world



Ancient greece

​

And after the Egyptians went, so along came the amazing Greeks, who could have derived their interest and cultivation of beauty from the Egyptians, and followed in the Egyptians' footsteps. Ancient Greece went through 3 major periods of inventions and appearance: the archaic, the classical, and the Hellenistic period

One of the important eras, in my opinion, is the archaic period. It was the foundation of the future of the Greek aesthetic. Firstly, the Greeks abandoned the geometrical forms of the Egyptians and opted for a more earthly art, a more natural appearance and interpretation of art,

From my research, there were many depictions of young men and what the ideal young man looks like
mostly being called kouroi statues, they were modelled after the attributes of Apollo (the god of order/the sun), and thought to be the epitome of excellence at the time, kourois had broad shoulders, narrow waist and long hair, since sculpting was a aristocratic and long art, it was reserved for the best gods who could offer the sculptor his dreams, so this sacred art resulted in a beautiful appearance of sculpture for the reason to give to the gods

Moving onto the classical period, the importance of looks became more apparent, and art began improving rapidly due to competition between sculptors, as well as the fact that the Greeks had many gods that they wanted to represent in human form, almost like a way to give the public an idealized version of man to strive towards
This era of Greek sculpture produced, in my opinion, some of the most aesthetic works man has ever seen

But then what could be the source of these incredible creations of man with his proportions, well firstly in the ancient age it could be a good muse, as well as the works of pythagoras's influence on the sculptor, and talking about pythagoras he played a great deal in the mathematification of beauty, saying that beauty could be explained through mathematical laws and laws of proportions, and yet again in the modern sense these are all ratios more or less

What is admirable of this period was how far they came from the Egyptians, going from rigid grid systems where the human figure was pasted onto a grid to estimate each part of the body to the grid, to the ancient greek sculptors who instead chose first what they can see by looking at good looking athletes and then after that trying to calculate how parts of the body related to the rest in their definition of proportion

The age of Vitruvius​

Skipping over the hellenistic period which was a rehash of the classical period without the creativity, the greeks were eventually conquered by the romans, in that period many sculptors were destroyed as a result of greece being used as a battle ground, for a while teh sentiment around greek art was seen as destructive until a sudden shift in mentality, which made the attitude towards greek art more positive, as in ancient rome where the architect, vitruvius, was leaning towards a greek attitude towards art, but with a great deal of symmetrical and proportional insight, calling human figure a building and a great human figure a perfect building
Vitruvius created the facial third system as well, expanding on this idea in his book called 'on symmetry

Unbeknownst to vitruvius his works would survive to the Renaissance period to be dissected by the analysts of the future

The new age of innovators

Leon Battista Alberti​

From what ive read the rest of the ancient roman parts isnt that relevant so im travelling to the period of the renaissance, which had a nack for antiquity, it showed in its art, which depicted the figures of the socratic school and the people of athens through paintings, perhaps a superior means of art compared to marble for some, the first figure of discussion is Leon Battista Alberti, again a architect like the former figure, he held great knowledge, known across the european rennaissance era, his opinions on beauty was unique at the time and i quote from his definition of beauty

his interest in paintings also made him have a interest in human proportion, causing him to write that human proportion holds great relationship to beauty

​

The biggest invention of Alberti was his idea of ideal proportions through rigorous measurements. I commend him in this because, according to the source, he measured aesthetic people directly for this and numerically created a system of proportion

Leonardo da Vinci​

Leonardo da Vinci, a figure from the Renaissance era who also held weight, his name is known across many spaces, also had his theories on beauty, but his approach was more facial, with him mapping out the ideal ratios of the face, as well as contouring the Vitruvian Man, which is an interpretation of the previous figures who tried at what is 'ideal'
Da Vinci learned the most about beauty in his Milanese period, where he came up with his own theory of art, with a combination of his notebooks and sketches, Leonardo attempted a great stick at finding the ideal facial proportion

You could say in a way da Vinci was the og looks analyst, as he went out of his way to understand what is beautiful

Albrecht Dürer​

Still in the same period as da vinci, he was also a artist, and had great interest in beauty, but his opinions on beauty differ, as he thought there was no absolutes and no ideals in beauty, he believed in a form of relative beauty, instead of a singiluar principle for the ideal, he presented a array of proportions based on body type
Although he was not native to the Italian taste, he learned from the classical writers of Italy, fulfilling a destiny and continuing the search for the ideal proportions
Dürer's works laid the foundation for fields in the modern era; his 4 books on human proportion are still a significant source of knowledge to this day.

The enlightened taste ​

During this period of intellectual high thought, many great concepts evolved, like dimorphism, averagenes, the importance of specific features, and how they connect with each other, great theories that still hold weight
The error of this era was trying to copy the previous eras too much.
Like always rome had always left its mark on outsiders, seen by Durer and in the Enlightenment through Audran
Audran, after studying in Rome for a few years, measured and studied the relationships between statues to find the ideal

The craniometry era of aesthetics​

The biggest figure in this is Petrus Camper, as he developed the facial angle, and to add to that, he created the Camper's plane, which is defined as this, by quoting the source

Proto-modern facial aesthetics​

The creator or father of modern craniofacial anthropology would be Leslie Farkas, with his resources in the field, leading it in a good direction
His book, called ANTHROPOMETRIC FACIAL PROPORTIONS IN MEDICINE, left its great influence on a lot of fields

Other topics
the golden ratio​

With the course of history, everything has been made mathematical and measurable, now of course this fate would happen to faces, resultin gin the idea of the golden ratio, altough the golden ratio is a very interesting topic and one thats still ongoing, wether its true or not, i dont have the geometrical capacity to discuss it, i mean i barely understand it


@Sceptical @6ft4 @Ghost Philosophy @SouthAfricancel

Very nice thread man, it was a good read.

I always wondered how looks and aesthetics were perceived throughout the time, because you can see in ancient scriptures, women that looked, let's just say, "not good" , being the symbol of beauty.

The greeks were always exceptional when it comes to their obsession over aesthetics. When i was reading norse and greek mythology and it's entire history, i was really suprised how little attention the Norse mythos puts into looks in comparison to Greek. In the latter you'll always see great deals being told about how beautiful and stunning the gods looked.

 

[alurmo]

Very nice thread man, it was a good read.

I always wondered how looks and aesthetics were perceived throughout the time, because you can see in ancient scriptures, women that looked, let's just say, "not good" , being the symbol of beauty.

The greeks were always exceptional when it comes to their obsession over aesthetics. When i was reading norse and greek mythology and it's entire history, i was really suprised how little attention the Norse mythos puts into looks in comparison to Greek. In the latter you'll always see great deals being told about how beautiful and stunning the gods looked.

yeah i think its bc the Greeks humanized their gods in a way where the gods needed to be beautiful to be gods
and in turn it made their whole culture strive towards that divine beauty, as well as sculptors being offerings to the gods, which forced them to be beautiful and perfect, ultimately greek culture just fucking mogs

 

[Org3cel]

I've always been kinda critical of the theory of ratios, but I think it can be very accurate, like when looking at a bad ratio face is obviously not good looking, and the inverse is true, but well, these superficial questions are useless without context, and ultimately, history is the best context you can recieve

The pre rennaisance periods of beauty
ancient egypt
​

My first speculations on the origin were ancient Greece, but I discovered there was a society before that, the great ancient Egyptians, and upon researching their ideas about beauty, it became clear, they indeed had great instincts for beauty, as they had inclinations for immortalizing what they thought were beautiful, however unrealistic, they valued facial beauty, and it shows

As seen by Queen Nefertiti in all her beauty

Although by today's standards this may be seen as a mtb, back then it was the peak aesthetic*

The invention of ideal ratios could be classified as being born in Egypt, as the Egyptians made the proportional canons which held influence upto the Renaissance era

This posed the idea that the world has ratios and there could be perfect or near-perfect ratios

a New start in the ancient world



Ancient greece

​

And after the Egyptians went, so along came the amazing Greeks, who could have derived their interest and cultivation of beauty from the Egyptians, and followed in the Egyptians' footsteps. Ancient Greece went through 3 major periods of inventions and appearance: the archaic, the classical, and the Hellenistic period

One of the important eras, in my opinion, is the archaic period. It was the foundation of the future of the Greek aesthetic. Firstly, the Greeks abandoned the geometrical forms of the Egyptians and opted for a more earthly art, a more natural appearance and interpretation of art,

From my research, there were many depictions of young men and what the ideal young man looks like
mostly being called kouroi statues, they were modelled after the attributes of Apollo (the god of order/the sun), and thought to be the epitome of excellence at the time, kourois had broad shoulders, narrow waist and long hair, since sculpting was a aristocratic and long art, it was reserved for the best gods who could offer the sculptor his dreams, so this sacred art resulted in a beautiful appearance of sculpture for the reason to give to the gods

Moving onto the classical period, the importance of looks became more apparent, and art began improving rapidly due to competition between sculptors, as well as the fact that the Greeks had many gods that they wanted to represent in human form, almost like a way to give the public an idealized version of man to strive towards
This era of Greek sculpture produced, in my opinion, some of the most aesthetic works man has ever seen

But then what could be the source of these incredible creations of man with his proportions, well firstly in the ancient age it could be a good muse, as well as the works of pythagoras's influence on the sculptor, and talking about pythagoras he played a great deal in the mathematification of beauty, saying that beauty could be explained through mathematical laws and laws of proportions, and yet again in the modern sense these are all ratios more or less

What is admirable of this period was how far they came from the Egyptians, going from rigid grid systems where the human figure was pasted onto a grid to estimate each part of the body to the grid, to the ancient greek sculptors who instead chose first what they can see by looking at good looking athletes and then after that trying to calculate how parts of the body related to the rest in their definition of proportion

The age of Vitruvius​

Skipping over the hellenistic period which was a rehash of the classical period without the creativity, the greeks were eventually conquered by the romans, in that period many sculptors were destroyed as a result of greece being used as a battle ground, for a while teh sentiment around greek art was seen as destructive until a sudden shift in mentality, which made the attitude towards greek art more positive, as in ancient rome where the architect, vitruvius, was leaning towards a greek attitude towards art, but with a great deal of symmetrical and proportional insight, calling human figure a building and a great human figure a perfect building
Vitruvius created the facial third system as well, expanding on this idea in his book called 'on symmetry

Unbeknownst to vitruvius his works would survive to the Renaissance period to be dissected by the analysts of the future

The new age of innovators

Leon Battista Alberti​

From what ive read the rest of the ancient roman parts isnt that relevant so im travelling to the period of the renaissance, which had a nack for antiquity, it showed in its art, which depicted the figures of the socratic school and the people of athens through paintings, perhaps a superior means of art compared to marble for some, the first figure of discussion is Leon Battista Alberti, again a architect like the former figure, he held great knowledge, known across the european rennaissance era, his opinions on beauty was unique at the time and i quote from his definition of beauty

his interest in paintings also made him have a interest in human proportion, causing him to write that human proportion holds great relationship to beauty

​

The biggest invention of Alberti was his idea of ideal proportions through rigorous measurements. I commend him in this because, according to the source, he measured aesthetic people directly for this and numerically created a system of proportion

Leonardo da Vinci​

Leonardo da Vinci, a figure from the Renaissance era who also held weight, his name is known across many spaces, also had his theories on beauty, but his approach was more facial, with him mapping out the ideal ratios of the face, as well as contouring the Vitruvian Man, which is an interpretation of the previous figures who tried at what is 'ideal'
Da Vinci learned the most about beauty in his Milanese period, where he came up with his own theory of art, with a combination of his notebooks and sketches, Leonardo attempted a great stick at finding the ideal facial proportion

You could say in a way da Vinci was the og looks analyst, as he went out of his way to understand what is beautiful

Albrecht Dürer​

Still in the same period as da vinci, he was also a artist, and had great interest in beauty, but his opinions on beauty differ, as he thought there was no absolutes and no ideals in beauty, he believed in a form of relative beauty, instead of a singiluar principle for the ideal, he presented a array of proportions based on body type
Although he was not native to the Italian taste, he learned from the classical writers of Italy, fulfilling a destiny and continuing the search for the ideal proportions
Dürer's works laid the foundation for fields in the modern era; his 4 books on human proportion are still a significant source of knowledge to this day.

The enlightened taste ​

During this period of intellectual high thought, many great concepts evolved, like dimorphism, averagenes, the importance of specific features, and how they connect with each other, great theories that still hold weight
The error of this era was trying to copy the previous eras too much.
Like always rome had always left its mark on outsiders, seen by Durer and in the Enlightenment through Audran
Audran, after studying in Rome for a few years, measured and studied the relationships between statues to find the ideal

The craniometry era of aesthetics​

The biggest figure in this is Petrus Camper, as he developed the facial angle, and to add to that, he created the Camper's plane, which is defined as this, by quoting the source

Proto-modern facial aesthetics​

The creator or father of modern craniofacial anthropology would be Leslie Farkas, with his resources in the field, leading it in a good direction
His book, called ANTHROPOMETRIC FACIAL PROPORTIONS IN MEDICINE, left its great influence on a lot of fields

Other topics
the golden ratio​

With the course of history, everything has been made mathematical and measurable, now of course this fate would happen to faces, resultin gin the idea of the golden ratio, altough the golden ratio is a very interesting topic and one thats still ongoing, wether its true or not, i dont have the geometrical capacity to discuss it, i mean i barely understand it


@Sceptical @6ft4 @Ghost Philosophy @SouthAfricancel

Very interesting, good work

 

[ascend_or_death]

Holy DNR

 

[alurmo]

View attachment 4707603
Holy DNR

low iq dopamine addict detected
boyo go finish ur hw before discussing topics online u idiot

 

[ascend_or_death]

low iq dopamine addict detected
boyo go finish ur hw before discussing topics online u idiot

Sorry I don’t have the time to read ur ai slop lil nigger

 

[alurmo]

Sorry I don’t have the time to read ur ai slop lil nigger

lol at calling it ai slop
im not as lazy as most of this forum

 

[ascend_or_death]

lol at calling it ai slop
im not as lazy as most of this forum

Sure bro just end the thread at Alexander the Great mogs evryone to death

 

[alurmo]

Sure bro just end the thread at Alexander the Great mogs evryone to death

alexander the great is nowhere to be seen in teh modern day, he had no influence on civilization, plato made a new way to rationlize teh world, meanwhile alexander was just a violent power hungry creep

 

[ascend_or_death]

alexander the great is nowhere to be seen in teh modern day, he had no influence on civilization, plato made a new way to rationlize teh world, meanwhile alexander was just a violent power hungry creep

Are you really talking about my goat like that bro died at 32 after conquering Egypt the whole fucking East Persia at its peak he also fucked the Indians which is a plus

 

[alurmo]

Are you really talking about my goat like that bro died at 32 after conquering Egypt the whole fucking East Persia at its peak he also fucked the Indians which is a plus

oof he was afraid to conquer the indians, boyo saw the military power of dalits and turned the other way, fucking their women isnt a brag when he was coping with teh fact that he knew he couldnt conquer them

 

[ascend_or_death]

oof he was afraid to conquer the indians, boyo saw the military power of dalits and turned the other way, fucking their women isnt a brag when he was coping with teh fact that he knew he couldnt conquer them

Brother I’m gonna stop you there name me any other historical figure who conquered more with the same time span and handled the bureaucracy exceedingly well with relatively no tech innovations hence why he got the got the name great

 

[adderallx]

I've always been kinda critical of the theory of ratios, but I think it can be very accurate, like when looking at a bad ratio face is obviously not good looking, and the inverse is true, but well, these superficial questions are useless without context, and ultimately, history is the best context you can recieve

The pre rennaisance periods of beauty
ancient egypt
​

My first speculations on the origin were ancient Greece, but I discovered there was a society before that, the great ancient Egyptians, and upon researching their ideas about beauty, it became clear, they indeed had great instincts for beauty, as they had inclinations for immortalizing what they thought were beautiful, however unrealistic, they valued facial beauty, and it shows

As seen by Queen Nefertiti in all her beauty

Although by today's standards this may be seen as a mtb, back then it was the peak aesthetic*

The invention of ideal ratios could be classified as being born in Egypt, as the Egyptians made the proportional canons which held influence upto the Renaissance era

This posed the idea that the world has ratios and there could be perfect or near-perfect ratios

a New start in the ancient world



Ancient greece

​

And after the Egyptians went, so along came the amazing Greeks, who could have derived their interest and cultivation of beauty from the Egyptians, and followed in the Egyptians' footsteps. Ancient Greece went through 3 major periods of inventions and appearance: the archaic, the classical, and the Hellenistic period

One of the important eras, in my opinion, is the archaic period. It was the foundation of the future of the Greek aesthetic. Firstly, the Greeks abandoned the geometrical forms of the Egyptians and opted for a more earthly art, a more natural appearance and interpretation of art,

From my research, there were many depictions of young men and what the ideal young man looks like
mostly being called kouroi statues, they were modelled after the attributes of Apollo (the god of order/the sun), and thought to be the epitome of excellence at the time, kourois had broad shoulders, narrow waist and long hair, since sculpting was a aristocratic and long art, it was reserved for the best gods who could offer the sculptor his dreams, so this sacred art resulted in a beautiful appearance of sculpture for the reason to give to the gods

Moving onto the classical period, the importance of looks became more apparent, and art began improving rapidly due to competition between sculptors, as well as the fact that the Greeks had many gods that they wanted to represent in human form, almost like a way to give the public an idealized version of man to strive towards
This era of Greek sculpture produced, in my opinion, some of the most aesthetic works man has ever seen

But then what could be the source of these incredible creations of man with his proportions, well firstly in the ancient age it could be a good muse, as well as the works of pythagoras's influence on the sculptor, and talking about pythagoras he played a great deal in the mathematification of beauty, saying that beauty could be explained through mathematical laws and laws of proportions, and yet again in the modern sense these are all ratios more or less

What is admirable of this period was how far they came from the Egyptians, going from rigid grid systems where the human figure was pasted onto a grid to estimate each part of the body to the grid, to the ancient greek sculptors who instead chose first what they can see by looking at good looking athletes and then after that trying to calculate how parts of the body related to the rest in their definition of proportion

The age of Vitruvius​

Skipping over the hellenistic period which was a rehash of the classical period without the creativity, the greeks were eventually conquered by the romans, in that period many sculptors were destroyed as a result of greece being used as a battle ground, for a while teh sentiment around greek art was seen as destructive until a sudden shift in mentality, which made the attitude towards greek art more positive, as in ancient rome where the architect, vitruvius, was leaning towards a greek attitude towards art, but with a great deal of symmetrical and proportional insight, calling human figure a building and a great human figure a perfect building
Vitruvius created the facial third system as well, expanding on this idea in his book called 'on symmetry

Unbeknownst to vitruvius his works would survive to the Renaissance period to be dissected by the analysts of the future

The new age of innovators

Leon Battista Alberti​

From what ive read the rest of the ancient roman parts isnt that relevant so im travelling to the period of the renaissance, which had a nack for antiquity, it showed in its art, which depicted the figures of the socratic school and the people of athens through paintings, perhaps a superior means of art compared to marble for some, the first figure of discussion is Leon Battista Alberti, again a architect like the former figure, he held great knowledge, known across the european rennaissance era, his opinions on beauty was unique at the time and i quote from his definition of beauty

his interest in paintings also made him have a interest in human proportion, causing him to write that human proportion holds great relationship to beauty

​

The biggest invention of Alberti was his idea of ideal proportions through rigorous measurements. I commend him in this because, according to the source, he measured aesthetic people directly for this and numerically created a system of proportion

Leonardo da Vinci​

Leonardo da Vinci, a figure from the Renaissance era who also held weight, his name is known across many spaces, also had his theories on beauty, but his approach was more facial, with him mapping out the ideal ratios of the face, as well as contouring the Vitruvian Man, which is an interpretation of the previous figures who tried at what is 'ideal'
Da Vinci learned the most about beauty in his Milanese period, where he came up with his own theory of art, with a combination of his notebooks and sketches, Leonardo attempted a great stick at finding the ideal facial proportion

You could say in a way da Vinci was the og looks analyst, as he went out of his way to understand what is beautiful

Albrecht Dürer​

Still in the same period as da vinci, he was also a artist, and had great interest in beauty, but his opinions on beauty differ, as he thought there was no absolutes and no ideals in beauty, he believed in a form of relative beauty, instead of a singiluar principle for the ideal, he presented a array of proportions based on body type
Although he was not native to the Italian taste, he learned from the classical writers of Italy, fulfilling a destiny and continuing the search for the ideal proportions
Dürer's works laid the foundation for fields in the modern era; his 4 books on human proportion are still a significant source of knowledge to this day.

The enlightened taste ​

During this period of intellectual high thought, many great concepts evolved, like dimorphism, averagenes, the importance of specific features, and how they connect with each other, great theories that still hold weight
The error of this era was trying to copy the previous eras too much.
Like always rome had always left its mark on outsiders, seen by Durer and in the Enlightenment through Audran
Audran, after studying in Rome for a few years, measured and studied the relationships between statues to find the ideal

The craniometry era of aesthetics​

The biggest figure in this is Petrus Camper, as he developed the facial angle, and to add to that, he created the Camper's plane, which is defined as this, by quoting the source

Proto-modern facial aesthetics​

The creator or father of modern craniofacial anthropology would be Leslie Farkas, with his resources in the field, leading it in a good direction
His book, called ANTHROPOMETRIC FACIAL PROPORTIONS IN MEDICINE, left its great influence on a lot of fields

Other topics
the golden ratio​

With the course of history, everything has been made mathematical and measurable, now of course this fate would happen to faces, resultin gin the idea of the golden ratio, altough the golden ratio is a very interesting topic and one thats still ongoing, wether its true or not, i dont have the geometrical capacity to discuss it, i mean i barely understand it


@Sceptical @6ft4 @Ghost Philosophy @SouthAfricancel

Well posted

 

[Lookologist003]

altough the golden ratio is a very interesting topic and one thats still ongoing, wether its true or not, i dont have the geometrical capacity to discuss it, i mean i barely understand it

It's a myth.

Myths of maths: The golden ratio

The golden ratio has many amazing properties. But is it really a secret of nature and the epitome of beauty?

plus.maths.org

A very very popular myth that in my earlier posts promoted.

 

[alexias]

I've always been kinda critical of the theory of ratios, but I think it can be very accurate, like when looking at a bad ratio face is obviously not good looking, and the inverse is true, but well, these superficial questions are useless without context, and ultimately, history is the best context you can recieve

The pre rennaisance periods of beauty
ancient egypt
​

My first speculations on the origin were ancient Greece, but I discovered there was a society before that, the great ancient Egyptians, and upon researching their ideas about beauty, it became clear, they indeed had great instincts for beauty, as they had inclinations for immortalizing what they thought were beautiful, however unrealistic, they valued facial beauty, and it shows

As seen by Queen Nefertiti in all her beauty

Although by today's standards this may be seen as a mtb, back then it was the peak aesthetic*

The invention of ideal ratios could be classified as being born in Egypt, as the Egyptians made the proportional canons which held influence upto the Renaissance era

This posed the idea that the world has ratios and there could be perfect or near-perfect ratios

a New start in the ancient world



Ancient greece

​

And after the Egyptians went, so along came the amazing Greeks, who could have derived their interest and cultivation of beauty from the Egyptians, and followed in the Egyptians' footsteps. Ancient Greece went through 3 major periods of inventions and appearance: the archaic, the classical, and the Hellenistic period

One of the important eras, in my opinion, is the archaic period. It was the foundation of the future of the Greek aesthetic. Firstly, the Greeks abandoned the geometrical forms of the Egyptians and opted for a more earthly art, a more natural appearance and interpretation of art,

From my research, there were many depictions of young men and what the ideal young man looks like
mostly being called kouroi statues, they were modelled after the attributes of Apollo (the god of order/the sun), and thought to be the epitome of excellence at the time, kourois had broad shoulders, narrow waist and long hair, since sculpting was a aristocratic and long art, it was reserved for the best gods who could offer the sculptor his dreams, so this sacred art resulted in a beautiful appearance of sculpture for the reason to give to the gods

Moving onto the classical period, the importance of looks became more apparent, and art began improving rapidly due to competition between sculptors, as well as the fact that the Greeks had many gods that they wanted to represent in human form, almost like a way to give the public an idealized version of man to strive towards
This era of Greek sculpture produced, in my opinion, some of the most aesthetic works man has ever seen

But then what could be the source of these incredible creations of man with his proportions, well firstly in the ancient age it could be a good muse, as well as the works of pythagoras's influence on the sculptor, and talking about pythagoras he played a great deal in the mathematification of beauty, saying that beauty could be explained through mathematical laws and laws of proportions, and yet again in the modern sense these are all ratios more or less

What is admirable of this period was how far they came from the Egyptians, going from rigid grid systems where the human figure was pasted onto a grid to estimate each part of the body to the grid, to the ancient greek sculptors who instead chose first what they can see by looking at good looking athletes and then after that trying to calculate how parts of the body related to the rest in their definition of proportion

The age of Vitruvius​

Skipping over the hellenistic period which was a rehash of the classical period without the creativity, the greeks were eventually conquered by the romans, in that period many sculptors were destroyed as a result of greece being used as a battle ground, for a while teh sentiment around greek art was seen as destructive until a sudden shift in mentality, which made the attitude towards greek art more positive, as in ancient rome where the architect, vitruvius, was leaning towards a greek attitude towards art, but with a great deal of symmetrical and proportional insight, calling human figure a building and a great human figure a perfect building
Vitruvius created the facial third system as well, expanding on this idea in his book called 'on symmetry

Unbeknownst to vitruvius his works would survive to the Renaissance period to be dissected by the analysts of the future

The new age of innovators

Leon Battista Alberti​

From what ive read the rest of the ancient roman parts isnt that relevant so im travelling to the period of the renaissance, which had a nack for antiquity, it showed in its art, which depicted the figures of the socratic school and the people of athens through paintings, perhaps a superior means of art compared to marble for some, the first figure of discussion is Leon Battista Alberti, again a architect like the former figure, he held great knowledge, known across the european rennaissance era, his opinions on beauty was unique at the time and i quote from his definition of beauty

his interest in paintings also made him have a interest in human proportion, causing him to write that human proportion holds great relationship to beauty

​

The biggest invention of Alberti was his idea of ideal proportions through rigorous measurements. I commend him in this because, according to the source, he measured aesthetic people directly for this and numerically created a system of proportion

Leonardo da Vinci​

Leonardo da Vinci, a figure from the Renaissance era who also held weight, his name is known across many spaces, also had his theories on beauty, but his approach was more facial, with him mapping out the ideal ratios of the face, as well as contouring the Vitruvian Man, which is an interpretation of the previous figures who tried at what is 'ideal'
Da Vinci learned the most about beauty in his Milanese period, where he came up with his own theory of art, with a combination of his notebooks and sketches, Leonardo attempted a great stick at finding the ideal facial proportion

You could say in a way da Vinci was the og looks analyst, as he went out of his way to understand what is beautiful

Albrecht Dürer​

Still in the same period as da vinci, he was also a artist, and had great interest in beauty, but his opinions on beauty differ, as he thought there was no absolutes and no ideals in beauty, he believed in a form of relative beauty, instead of a singiluar principle for the ideal, he presented a array of proportions based on body type
Although he was not native to the Italian taste, he learned from the classical writers of Italy, fulfilling a destiny and continuing the search for the ideal proportions
Dürer's works laid the foundation for fields in the modern era; his 4 books on human proportion are still a significant source of knowledge to this day.

The enlightened taste ​

During this period of intellectual high thought, many great concepts evolved, like dimorphism, averagenes, the importance of specific features, and how they connect with each other, great theories that still hold weight
The error of this era was trying to copy the previous eras too much.
Like always rome had always left its mark on outsiders, seen by Durer and in the Enlightenment through Audran
Audran, after studying in Rome for a few years, measured and studied the relationships between statues to find the ideal

The craniometry era of aesthetics​

The biggest figure in this is Petrus Camper, as he developed the facial angle, and to add to that, he created the Camper's plane, which is defined as this, by quoting the source

Proto-modern facial aesthetics​

The creator or father of modern craniofacial anthropology would be Leslie Farkas, with his resources in the field, leading it in a good direction
His book, called ANTHROPOMETRIC FACIAL PROPORTIONS IN MEDICINE, left its great influence on a lot of fields

Other topics
the golden ratio​

With the course of history, everything has been made mathematical and measurable, now of course this fate would happen to faces, resultin gin the idea of the golden ratio, altough the golden ratio is a very interesting topic and one thats still ongoing, wether its true or not, i dont have the geometrical capacity to discuss it, i mean i barely understand it


@Sceptical @6ft4 @Ghost Philosophy @SouthAfricancel

One thing I've noticed is that from the ancient Greece to today there are many features we think beautiful same as in those eras for males but for females I find that we've had a drastic change and have a huge difference from now to then

 

[Aryan Incel]

I've always been kinda critical of the theory of ratios, but I think it can be very accurate, like when looking at a bad ratio face is obviously not good looking, and the inverse is true, but well, these superficial questions are useless without context, and ultimately, history is the best context you can recieve

The pre rennaisance periods of beauty
ancient egypt
​

My first speculations on the origin were ancient Greece, but I discovered there was a society before that, the great ancient Egyptians, and upon researching their ideas about beauty, it became clear, they indeed had great instincts for beauty, as they had inclinations for immortalizing what they thought were beautiful, however unrealistic, they valued facial beauty, and it shows

As seen by Queen Nefertiti in all her beauty

Although by today's standards this may be seen as a mtb, back then it was the peak aesthetic*

The invention of ideal ratios could be classified as being born in Egypt, as the Egyptians made the proportional canons which held influence upto the Renaissance era

This posed the idea that the world has ratios and there could be perfect or near-perfect ratios

a New start in the ancient world



Ancient greece

​

And after the Egyptians went, so along came the amazing Greeks, who could have derived their interest and cultivation of beauty from the Egyptians, and followed in the Egyptians' footsteps. Ancient Greece went through 3 major periods of inventions and appearance: the archaic, the classical, and the Hellenistic period

One of the important eras, in my opinion, is the archaic period. It was the foundation of the future of the Greek aesthetic. Firstly, the Greeks abandoned the geometrical forms of the Egyptians and opted for a more earthly art, a more natural appearance and interpretation of art,

From my research, there were many depictions of young men and what the ideal young man looks like
mostly being called kouroi statues, they were modelled after the attributes of Apollo (the god of order/the sun), and thought to be the epitome of excellence at the time, kourois had broad shoulders, narrow waist and long hair, since sculpting was a aristocratic and long art, it was reserved for the best gods who could offer the sculptor his dreams, so this sacred art resulted in a beautiful appearance of sculpture for the reason to give to the gods

Moving onto the classical period, the importance of looks became more apparent, and art began improving rapidly due to competition between sculptors, as well as the fact that the Greeks had many gods that they wanted to represent in human form, almost like a way to give the public an idealized version of man to strive towards
This era of Greek sculpture produced, in my opinion, some of the most aesthetic works man has ever seen

But then what could be the source of these incredible creations of man with his proportions, well firstly in the ancient age it could be a good muse, as well as the works of pythagoras's influence on the sculptor, and talking about pythagoras he played a great deal in the mathematification of beauty, saying that beauty could be explained through mathematical laws and laws of proportions, and yet again in the modern sense these are all ratios more or less

What is admirable of this period was how far they came from the Egyptians, going from rigid grid systems where the human figure was pasted onto a grid to estimate each part of the body to the grid, to the ancient greek sculptors who instead chose first what they can see by looking at good looking athletes and then after that trying to calculate how parts of the body related to the rest in their definition of proportion

The age of Vitruvius​

Skipping over the hellenistic period which was a rehash of the classical period without the creativity, the greeks were eventually conquered by the romans, in that period many sculptors were destroyed as a result of greece being used as a battle ground, for a while teh sentiment around greek art was seen as destructive until a sudden shift in mentality, which made the attitude towards greek art more positive, as in ancient rome where the architect, vitruvius, was leaning towards a greek attitude towards art, but with a great deal of symmetrical and proportional insight, calling human figure a building and a great human figure a perfect building
Vitruvius created the facial third system as well, expanding on this idea in his book called 'on symmetry

Unbeknownst to vitruvius his works would survive to the Renaissance period to be dissected by the analysts of the future

The new age of innovators

Leon Battista Alberti​

From what ive read the rest of the ancient roman parts isnt that relevant so im travelling to the period of the renaissance, which had a nack for antiquity, it showed in its art, which depicted the figures of the socratic school and the people of athens through paintings, perhaps a superior means of art compared to marble for some, the first figure of discussion is Leon Battista Alberti, again a architect like the former figure, he held great knowledge, known across the european rennaissance era, his opinions on beauty was unique at the time and i quote from his definition of beauty

his interest in paintings also made him have a interest in human proportion, causing him to write that human proportion holds great relationship to beauty

​

The biggest invention of Alberti was his idea of ideal proportions through rigorous measurements. I commend him in this because, according to the source, he measured aesthetic people directly for this and numerically created a system of proportion

Leonardo da Vinci​

Leonardo da Vinci, a figure from the Renaissance era who also held weight, his name is known across many spaces, also had his theories on beauty, but his approach was more facial, with him mapping out the ideal ratios of the face, as well as contouring the Vitruvian Man, which is an interpretation of the previous figures who tried at what is 'ideal'
Da Vinci learned the most about beauty in his Milanese period, where he came up with his own theory of art, with a combination of his notebooks and sketches, Leonardo attempted a great stick at finding the ideal facial proportion

You could say in a way da Vinci was the og looks analyst, as he went out of his way to understand what is beautiful

Albrecht Dürer​

Still in the same period as da vinci, he was also a artist, and had great interest in beauty, but his opinions on beauty differ, as he thought there was no absolutes and no ideals in beauty, he believed in a form of relative beauty, instead of a singiluar principle for the ideal, he presented a array of proportions based on body type
Although he was not native to the Italian taste, he learned from the classical writers of Italy, fulfilling a destiny and continuing the search for the ideal proportions
Dürer's works laid the foundation for fields in the modern era; his 4 books on human proportion are still a significant source of knowledge to this day.

The enlightened taste ​

During this period of intellectual high thought, many great concepts evolved, like dimorphism, averagenes, the importance of specific features, and how they connect with each other, great theories that still hold weight
The error of this era was trying to copy the previous eras too much.
Like always rome had always left its mark on outsiders, seen by Durer and in the Enlightenment through Audran
Audran, after studying in Rome for a few years, measured and studied the relationships between statues to find the ideal

The craniometry era of aesthetics​

The biggest figure in this is Petrus Camper, as he developed the facial angle, and to add to that, he created the Camper's plane, which is defined as this, by quoting the source

Proto-modern facial aesthetics​

The creator or father of modern craniofacial anthropology would be Leslie Farkas, with his resources in the field, leading it in a good direction
His book, called ANTHROPOMETRIC FACIAL PROPORTIONS IN MEDICINE, left its great influence on a lot of fields

Other topics
the golden ratio​

With the course of history, everything has been made mathematical and measurable, now of course this fate would happen to faces, resultin gin the idea of the golden ratio, altough the golden ratio is a very interesting topic and one thats still ongoing, wether its true or not, i dont have the geometrical capacity to discuss it, i mean i barely understand it


@Sceptical @6ft4 @Ghost Philosophy @SouthAfricancel

Cool asf thread

 

[Inedmonz]

Pretty damn cool

 

[idont]

bumping only for greys to come here to dnr and rep farm

 

[DownBadForRamus]

Props to you for taking the time to write this whole post, which I imagine must've taken you quite a while. Thank you for giving a charm to this hella weird movement of looksmaxing.