The Ideal Chin to Philtrum Ratio

[lilhorizontal32]

As per my earlier post:

Harmony doesn't exist. LOOKSMAXXING PROJECT to figure out the remaining ratios for facial aesthetics [GTFIH LOOKSMAXXERS]

Harmony is a cope used by those who don't know enough about makes an aesthetically pleasing face However, we know that ratios are what matter, and we can explain to a decent degree what makes someone good looking with the ratios we already have e.g. midface, es, bizygomatic/bigonial etc. But...

looksmax.org

In that post I talked about how we can eventually work out what ratios are ideal for aesthetics on a male face, so that should we choose to surgerymax, we will know exactly how much augmentation to get, and where. However, I thought that if I wanted to make this more valid, I should increase the sample size I use to do my measurements, and increased it from approximately 15ish to a total of 40 different guys.

Results:

miroslav cech	2.60
simonas pham	2.03
christian bale	2.31
james kakonge	2.25
xavier serrano	2.45
jeremy meeks	2.33
david gandy	2.31
henry cavill	2.47
andreas eriksen	2.60
sendhil ramamurthy	2.2
sean o pry	3.04
francisco lachowski	2.4
tyler maher	3.11
zach cox	2.76
jon-erik hexum	2.5
manu bora	2.8
harry raftus	3
sergio carvajal	2.64
oliver cheshire	2.85
garrett neff	2.96
ton heukels	2.73
ashton gohil	2.54
caspar thomas	2.55
charlie knepper	2.72
christopher pfeffer	2.23
colton haynes	2.3
islam dulatov	2.56
gabriel daum	2.77
geoffrey camus	2.46
ivan bubalo	2.72
jason shaw	2.8
james triglione	2.78
jon kortajakarena	2.25
julian schneyder	2.79
kevin papon	2.19
luke volker	2.89
ravi goswami	2.97
terrence telle	2.64
maximilian wefers	2.62
simon nessman	2.98

I also worked out the statistics for these numbers, because this is the most important part.

Here's what I got:

The 3 most important statistics:

Average (mean) - 2.60
Median (the middle value) - 2.61
Standard deviation - 0.27

Graphs:

From this, and from the statistics themselves, we can see that the ideal chin to philtrum ratio is somewhere between 2.4 - 2.8.

It is hard to say what exact chin to philtrum ratio would be ideal for any one individual however, as this would be dependent on the face as a whole and we still haven't determined the ideal ratios for a lot of the other features. But in general, I would say that most people's chin height would look aesthetic as look as it stays within this range

 

[Deleted member 8165]

i have short chin

 

[lilhorizontal32]

@Slayerino

 

[far336]

How is chin to philtrum ratio measured?

 

[lilhorizontal32]

How is chin to philtrum ratio measured?

by dividing the height of the chin, to the length of the philtrum, with the two lines being parallel (ie. angled in the same direction) and this is important to decrease the measurement error

I measured the length of the philtrum from a pixel or two above the upper lip to a pixel or two below the base of the nose

 

[far336]

by dividing the height of the chin, to the length of the philtrum, with the two lines being parallel (ie. angled in the same direction) and this is important to decrease the measurement error

I measured the length of the philtrum from a pixel or two above the upper lip to a pixel or two below the base of the nose

Do you mean, like this:

 

[lilhorizontal32]

Do you mean, like this:
View attachment 1206406

more like this:

the yellow lines weren't usually perfectly parallel, but you get the idea

 

[lilhorizontal32]

i have short chin

sliding genio can increase chin height. if you are not recessed then chin or wraparound implants

 

[Deleted member 756]

sliding genio can increase chin height. if you are not recessed then chin or wraparound implants

how much chin height can it provide?

 

[far336]

more like this:

I rotated the image and measured it:

Seems to match with your numbers

 

[lilhorizontal32]

how much chin height can it provide?

not sure

 

[lilhorizontal32]

I rotated the image and measured it:

View attachment 1206438

Seems to match with your numbers

what program are you using for that? seems to be easier to use than mine

 

[far336]

what program are you using for that? seems to be easier to use than mine

To rotate it:

Rotate image online

Rotate an image

pinetools.com

To draw lines and put text: MS paint

Also, did I measure this correctly:

 

[EverythingMattersCel]

This has to be the greatest post I have ever stumbled upon.

Take my Reddit Gold, Reddit Silver and take my wife. You deserve absolutely everything strangerino.

 

[Deleted member 13409]

Lmao I have a really short philtrum and a slightly above average chin. I got 3.5. I just have gigantic lips though which throws lip-based ratios off for me. My lips have never been a failo, generally a halo. So I suspect this ratio while good is probably doomed by being too impacted by lip size.

Why not define “philtrum” as bottom of nose to middle of mouth, and “chin” as middle of mouth to bottom of chin? That way you now have a lip-unbiased version of this ratio. Not saying it’s better, but I wonder how much it differs. I bet I have an ideal ratio if you do it this way, much like how my midface ratio is over 1.15 but if you do midface ratio to middle of mouth it’s the same as many models with slightly compact faces. Which is why I don’t look weird despite having an extremely compact face. I think most ratios other than FWHR that include lip height are flawed for people with very small or large lips. You can look good with big or small lips but then these ratios will indicate otherwise. FWHR is pretty legit because it’s at least backed by serious studies. Midface ratio and most other ratios that include lip height don’t have much science behind them

maybe I’m coping with my giant lips but I think it’s funny how my ratios go from alien tier to ideal whenever you exclude lip height

 

[lilhorizontal32]

To rotate it:

Rotate image online

Rotate an image

pinetools.com

To draw lines and put text: MS paint

View attachment 1206472

Also, did I measure this correctly:

View attachment 1206474

no the top of the philtrum has to be beneath the nose, whereas yours is on it

 

[far336]

no the top of the philtrum has to be beneath the nose, whereas yours is on it

Do you mean like this:

 

[EverythingMattersCel]

no the top of the philtrum has to be beneath the nose, whereas yours is on it

How much does a heavy stubble add to the perceived chin-philtrum ratio would you say? Length of 4-5mm so it should in theory make a 10-15% difference.

 

[far336]

Do you mean like this:

If we use that method, then someone with a long nose tip (like in the picture) will make it seem like they have a short philtrum:

Would the above person be considered to have a short philtrum?

 

[lilhorizontal32]

If we use that method, then someone with a long nose tip (like in the picture) will make it seem like they have a short philtrum:

View attachment 1206638

Would the above person be considered to have a short philtrum?

Yes

 

[lilhorizontal32]

No

How much does a heavy stubble add to the perceived chin-philtrum ratio would you say? Length of 4-5mm so it should in theory make a 10-15% difference.

idea, but the thicker the facial hair the less the philtrum and lower third in general will be visible

 

[far336]

Yes

I see. There is different methods of measuring it. There's the way you measure it, and the other way to measure is to use the nostril tips instead of nose tips, like I did earlier. Which method do you think is correct?

 

[lilhorizontal32]

I see. There is different methods of measuring it. There's the way you measure it, and the other way to measure is to use the nostril tips instead of nose tips, like I did earlier. Which method do you think is correct?

My method isn’t perfectly accurate because of the fact some people have downturned noses which distorts the result.

However id say this is pretty minor and besides the chin to philtrum ratio shouldn’t be the only ratio you use to help you understand your face and decide whether or not to augment your chin/philtrum

 

[Chinacurry]

I rotated the image and measured it:

View attachment 1206438

Seems to match with your numbers

Sorry one question, this guy has a Nordic nose, I have an iranid nose, so the tip of the nose hooks down slightly below where the nose cartilage bone begins.

So got the second measurement do I measure from my upper lip to where nose cartilage bone begins, or to where my nose 'visually' begins?

 

[Chinacurry]

Do you mean like this:
View attachment 1206499

Ah right got it

 

[lilhorizontal32]

Sorry one question, this guy has a Nordic nose, I have an iranid nose, so the tip of the nose hooks down slightly below where the nose cartilage bone begins.

So got the second measurement do I measure from my upper lip to where nose cartilage bone begins, or to where my nose 'visually' begins?

I measured it from where the nose "visually" begins, however, looking back I think it would've been better if I measured it to the REAL point where the lower third ends, which is where the upper lip actually ends (ie. where the nose cartilage bone beings).

however this wasn't possible due to camera angles and the fact that different guys had different nose shapes.

and also, this shouldn't make a big difference in the overall measurement, but if you are still concerned you can always decrease a small amount from your CtP ratio as your ratio will be artificially smaller owing to a slight miscalculation for your philtrum length (it will be larger than what you measured)

 

[Chinacurry]

I measured it from where the nose "visually" begins, however, looking back I think it would've been better if I measured it to the REAL point where the lower third ends, which is where the upper lip actually ends (ie. where the nose cartilage bone beings).

however this wasn't possible due to camera angles and the fact that different guys had different nose shapes.

and also, this shouldn't make a big difference in the overall measurement, but if you are still concerned you can always decrease a small amount from your CtP ratio as your ratio will be artificially smaller owing to a slight miscalculation for your philtrum length (it will be larger than what you measured)

Yeah so I measured mine from where my nose visually ends, and got 2.75, likely if I did it correctly as you say I'd be a little lower (my nose ends lower cos it hooks out like a sandnigger), so maybe 2.65.

Think this is normal but I think what's different with me an dmoat normies is my chin protrudes out a bit, not like a point, but the while flat part of the chin itself

 

[Whatashame]

I know its an old post but i would like to point how bad this measurements were made. Sean o pry doesnt have a 3 chin philtrum ratio at all, i would like to see the measurement that was made.

 

[Deleted member 2729]

I know its an old post but i would like to point how bad this measurements were made. Sean o pry doesnt have a 3 chin philtrum ratio at all, i would like to see the measurement that was made.

what is his ratio then

 

[Whatashame]

what is his ratio then

2.6

 

[Whatashame]

what is his ratio then

Probab the others are all wrong also

 

[Deleted member 2729]

2.6

lifefuel for chincels like me

 

[Whatashame]

lifefuel for chincels like me

Whats your ratio?

 

[Deleted member 2729]

Whats your ratio?

1.85

 

[Whatashame]

As per my earlier post:

Harmony doesn't exist. LOOKSMAXXING PROJECT to figure out the remaining ratios for facial aesthetics [GTFIH LOOKSMAXXERS]

Harmony is a cope used by those who don't know enough about makes an aesthetically pleasing face However, we know that ratios are what matter, and we can explain to a decent degree what makes someone good looking with the ratios we already have e.g. midface, es, bizygomatic/bigonial etc. But...

looksmax.org

In that post I talked about how we can eventually work out what ratios are ideal for aesthetics on a male face, so that should we choose to surgerymax, we will know exactly how much augmentation to get, and where. However, I thought that if I wanted to make this more valid, I should increase the sample size I use to do my measurements, and increased it from approximately 15ish to a total of 40 different guys.

Results:

miroslav cech	2.60
simonas pham	2.03
christian bale	2.31
james kakonge	2.25
xavier serrano	2.45
jeremy meeks	2.33
david gandy	2.31
henry cavill	2.47
andreas eriksen	2.60
sendhil ramamurthy	2.2
sean o pry	3.04
francisco lachowski	2.4
tyler maher	3.11
zach cox	2.76
jon-erik hexum	2.5
manu bora	2.8
harry raftus	3
sergio carvajal	2.64
oliver cheshire	2.85
garrett neff	2.96
ton heukels	2.73
ashton gohil	2.54
caspar thomas	2.55
charlie knepper	2.72
christopher pfeffer	2.23
colton haynes	2.3
islam dulatov	2.56
gabriel daum	2.77
geoffrey camus	2.46
ivan bubalo	2.72
jason shaw	2.8
james triglione	2.78
jon kortajakarena	2.25
julian schneyder	2.79
kevin papon	2.19
luke volker	2.89
ravi goswami	2.97
terrence telle	2.64
maximilian wefers	2.62
simon nessman	2.98

I also worked out the statistics for these numbers, because this is the most important part.

Here's what I got:

View attachment 1206371

The 3 most important statistics:

Average (mean) - 2.60
Median (the middle value) - 2.61
Standard deviation - 0.27

Graphs:

View attachment 1206373

View attachment 1206372
From this, and from the statistics themselves, we can see that the ideal chin to philtrum ratio is somewhere between 2.4 - 2.8.

It is hard to say what exact chin to philtrum ratio would be ideal for any one individual however, as this would be dependent on the face as a whole and we still haven't determined the ideal ratios for a lot of the other features. But in general, I would say that most people's chin height would look aesthetic as look as it stays within this range

Sorry to revive that but it will alwayz amaze me how bad are u guys in measuring stuff. Every measuring post is like that. All the ratios here are lower than what this guy said

 

[Sondern]

i have short chin

Sameee

 

[madcap88]

The problem here is you are not accounting for lens distortion

 

[thecel]

This thread deserves to be in BotB.

 

[chemosh]

This thread deserves to be in BotB.

No it doesnt. The thread doesnt account for lens distortion, head tilt. Those ratios on front facing picks vary a lot depending on those factors. Just not good contribution which cannot be used for adequate planning

 

[thecel]

No it doesnt. The thread doesnt account for lens distortion, head tilt. Those ratios on front facing picks vary a lot depending on those factors. Just not good contribution which cannot be used for adequate planning

Chin-to-philtrum ratio is affected very little, if at all, by lens distortion. ES ratio is affected way more substantially by lens distortion.

Moreover, the pictures of male models that the measurements were taken from are taken at far enough distances for lens distortion to not be an issue. The ratios (I presume) are measured from the models’ professional photos and not from their selfies.