The maestro Paganoni told me my infras are good, no need for implants

[levaloisperret1998]

So my goal is to raise the lower lid and get rid of scleral show, he said getting implants with saddle it will make forward projection that I already have and will be much projection that could look uncanny. So he said canthopexy or plasty will be the solution but I dont feel comfortable with those procedures cause I didnt see good results.
Also, he said I have perfect jaw and chin

 

[moze]

Do you have tear trough/under eye bags?

 

[moze]

So my goal is to raise the lower lid and get rid of scleral show, he said getting implants with saddle it will make forward projection that I already have and will be much projection that could look uncanny. So he said canthopexy or plasty will be the solution but I dont feel comfortable with those procedures cause I didnt see good results.
Also, he said I have perfect jaw and chin

Do fat grafting bro you will like it.its for people with good infras

 

[levaloisperret1998]

Do fat grafting bro you will like it.its for people with good infras

Can fat graft help raise the lower lid or I need fat graft+ canthopexy? Does canthopexy leave scar or uncanny look ?

IMG-9194 hosted at ImgBB

Image IMG-9194 in Okletsgoom's images album

ibb.co

 

[FrenchareMedCucks]

Can fat graft help raise the lower lid or I need fat graft+ canthopexy? Does canthopexy leave scar or uncanny look ?

IMG-9194 hosted at ImgBB

Image IMG-9194 in Okletsgoom's images album

ibb.co

Pagnoni definitely tell you the truth you have good bones

You need fat graft though works wonder and it's relatively cheap

Try it and do cantho later if you really want straight lower eyelid

 

[richcel]

So my goal is to raise the lower lid and get rid of scleral show, he said getting implants with saddle it will make forward projection that I already have and will be much projection that could look uncanny. So he said canthopexy or plasty will be the solution but I dont feel comfortable with those procedures cause I didnt see good results.
Also, he said I have perfect jaw and chin

If pagnoni says you have good bone structure maybe it’s your height or psychological profile that’s the issue.

 

[richcel]

Can fat graft help raise the lower lid or I need fat graft+ canthopexy? Does canthopexy leave scar or uncanny look ?

IMG-9194 hosted at ImgBB

Image IMG-9194 in Okletsgoom's images album

ibb.co

You are good looking maybe you are schizophrenic or a rape victim and that’s why you seek cosmetic enhancements. You will never understand the plight of a true incel like me

 

[richcel]

Can fat graft help raise the lower lid or I need fat graft+ canthopexy? Does canthopexy leave scar or uncanny look ?

IMG-9194 hosted at ImgBB

Image IMG-9194 in Okletsgoom's images album

ibb.co

Orbital decompression maybe blud

 

[levaloisperret1998]

If pagnoni says you have good bone structure maybe it’s your height or psychological profile that’s the issue.

Im 6feet1, my eyes they look good okay but round and feminine I want more masculine eyes to get more respect. Girls usually tell me I have a baby face!

 

[levaloisperret1998]

Pagnoni definitely tell you the truth you have good bones

You need fat graft though works wonder and it's relatively cheap

Try it and do cantho later if you really want straight lower eyelid

Salut! Okay and for supra do you think drop down supras worth it ? can they make the brow shape more like a straight line ? Paganoni was not against the supras though

 

[FrenchareMedCucks]

Salut! Okay and for supra do you think drop down supras worth it ? can they make the brow shape more like a straight line ? Paganoni was not against the supras though

You could do what Pagnoni agrees to

However I think you should just do fat graft then yeux clairs in Spain for eye color surgery that would be bigger ascension

 

[levaloisperret1998]

You could do what Pagnoni agrees to

However I think you should just do fat graft then yeux clairs in Spain for eye color surgery that would be bigger ascension

Ok I appreciate your reply! Do you have any recommendations for surgeon who do fat graft ?

 

[lookmaxxer998]

Im 6feet1, my eyes they look good okay but round and feminine I want more masculine eyes to get more respect. Girls usually tell me I have a baby face!

Pagnoni is correct- your infras are good. The reason why you get called a baby face is bc of your ratios.

FHWR: 1.67 (ideal 1.80-2.00)
MTN: 1.24 (Ideal 1.50)
Eye aspect ratio: 2.26 (ideal 3.00)
Philtrum to Chin: 2.20 (ideal 3.00)

A low facial height-to-width ratio (FHWR) makes you look less masculine. A weak mouth-to-nose ratio (MTN) also slightly feminizes the face (women tend to have smaller mouths). Most importantly, your eye aspect ratio which is a lot less than the ideal gives you a neotenous appearance. Women can have the so-called "prey eyes" and look good ( if no UEE/ other flaws). Men, on the other hand, cannot. You need to have narrower eyes ( to be considered conventionally attractive). Sometimes the issue is weak infras ( which is not your case). Your philtrum to chin along with a few other ratios are kind of weak- I won't calculate them all though. Supras could also be useful since your brow bone isn't very prominent but tbh It won't get you a high return on investment. Hardmaxing is about doing a few effective surgeries rather than lots of ineffective ones.

This isn't me insulting you though- I'm just being honest. This forum is to get real advice for people who are tired of hearing blue pilled "just be yourself, you look fine" advice.

The issue is everyone on this forum tries to use the same set of few surgeries to reach higher looks level: Bimax, Genio, Infras, and Rhino (maybe HT and other type of implants too). But, not everyone can be "chadified" using these surgeries. Most people are bottlenecked by ratios, colouring, and harmony. You're also slightly weak on the coloring end but tbh that's not the end of the world. The ratios are your true bottleneck and not all those can be changed. Out of all of those FHWR and mouth width can't be changed. Phitrum to chin is hard to change if you have a long philtrum. Maybe only eyes *could* be changed, but the issue with eyelid surgeries is they usually relapse after a while. They aren't always the highest risk in the right hands and might be worth a shot. Could look into lower eyelid retractor release or lateral canthopexy. (note this is just for eyelids- other more aggressive surgeries around the eyes are higher risk). Also, keep in mind that these ratios may not bc accurate if you took that picture really close to the camera as such pictures are subject to lens distortion and make your face look longer and narrower than it actually is.

 

[2marc1]

Can fat graft help raise the lower lid or I need fat graft+ canthopexy? Does canthopexy leave scar or uncanny look ?

IMG-9194 hosted at ImgBB

Image IMG-9194 in Okletsgoom's images album

ibb.co

fatgraft will do the job

 

[Dathomirian Zabrak]

Do you have wisdom teeths? My forward projection is good to but under eye shit. I hope my situation is justlike you cause implants are risky and expensive

 

[Acne Victim]

Pagnoni is correct- your infras are good. The reason why you get called a baby face is bc of your ratios.

FHWR: 1.67 (ideal 1.80-2.00)
MTN: 1.24 (Ideal 1.50)
Eye aspect ratio: 2.26 (ideal 3.00)
Philtrum to Chin: 2.20 (ideal 3.00)

A low facial height-to-width ratio (FHWR) makes you look less masculine. A weak mouth-to-nose ratio (MTN) also slightly feminizes the face (women tend to have smaller mouths). Most importantly, your eye aspect ratio which is a lot less than the ideal gives you a neotenous appearance. Women can have the so-called "prey eyes" and look good ( if no UEE/ other flaws). Men, on the other hand, cannot. You need to have narrower eyes ( to be considered conventionally attractive). Sometimes the issue is weak infras ( which is not your case). Your philtrum to chin along with a few other ratios are kind of weak- I won't calculate them all though. Supras could also be useful since your brow bone isn't very prominent but tbh It won't get you a high return on investment. Hardmaxing is about doing a few effective surgeries rather than lots of ineffective ones.

This isn't me insulting you though- I'm just being honest. This forum is to get real advice for people who are tired of hearing blue pilled "just be yourself, you look fine" advice.

The issue is everyone on this forum tries to use the same set of few surgeries to reach higher looks level: Bimax, Genio, Infras, and Rhino (maybe HT and other type of implants too). But, not everyone can be "chadified" using these surgeries. Most people are bottlenecked by ratios, colouring, and harmony. You're also slightly weak on the coloring end but tbh that's not the end of the world. The ratios are your true bottleneck and not all those can be changed. Out of all of those FHWR and mouth width can't be changed. Phitrum to chin is hard to change if you have a long philtrum. Maybe only eyes *could* be changed, but the issue with eyelid surgeries is they usually relapse after a while. They aren't always the highest risk in the right hands and might be worth a shot. Could look into lower eyelid retractor release or lateral canthopexy. (note this is just for eyelids- other more aggressive surgeries around the eyes are higher risk). Also, keep in mind that these ratios may not bc accurate if you took that picture really close to the camera as such pictures are subject to lens distortion and make your face look longer and narrower than it actually is.

You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, just shut up dude

 

[lookmaxxer998]

You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, just shut up dude

Keep coping and stfu yourself

 

[chrishell]

He's right avoid implants
Get cantho if anything but not with him

 

[Lefor3Laser]

So my goal is to raise the lower lid and get rid of scleral show, he said getting implants with saddle it will make forward projection that I already have and will be much projection that could look uncanny. So he said canthopexy or plasty will be the solution but I dont feel comfortable with those procedures cause I didnt see good results.
Also, he said I have perfect jaw and chin

Trust him since your bones are pretty good, ROI would be bad if you grt the them

 

[levaloisperret1998]

Pagnoni is correct- your infras are good. The reason why you get called a baby face is bc of your ratios.

FHWR: 1.67 (ideal 1.80-2.00)
MTN: 1.24 (Ideal 1.50)
Eye aspect ratio: 2.26 (ideal 3.00)
Philtrum to Chin: 2.20 (ideal 3.00)

A low facial height-to-width ratio (FHWR) makes you look less masculine. A weak mouth-to-nose ratio (MTN) also slightly feminizes the face (women tend to have smaller mouths). Most importantly, your eye aspect ratio which is a lot less than the ideal gives you a neotenous appearance. Women can have the so-called "prey eyes" and look good ( if no UEE/ other flaws). Men, on the other hand, cannot. You need to have narrower eyes ( to be considered conventionally attractive). Sometimes the issue is weak infras ( which is not your case). Your philtrum to chin along with a few other ratios are kind of weak- I won't calculate them all though. Supras could also be useful since your brow bone isn't very prominent but tbh It won't get you a high return on investment. Hardmaxing is about doing a few effective surgeries rather than lots of ineffective ones.

This isn't me insulting you though- I'm just being honest. This forum is to get real advice for people who are tired of hearing blue pilled "just be yourself, you look fine" advice.

The issue is everyone on this forum tries to use the same set of few surgeries to reach higher looks level: Bimax, Genio, Infras, and Rhino (maybe HT and other type of implants too). But, not everyone can be "chadified" using these surgeries. Most people are bottlenecked by ratios, colouring, and harmony. You're also slightly weak on the coloring end but tbh that's not the end of the world. The ratios are your true bottleneck and not all those can be changed. Out of all of those FHWR and mouth width can't be changed. Phitrum to chin is hard to change if you have a long philtrum. Maybe only eyes *could* be changed, but the issue with eyelid surgeries is they usually relapse after a while. They aren't always the highest risk in the right hands and might be worth a shot. Could look into lower eyelid retractor release or lateral canthopexy. (note this is just for eyelids- other more aggressive surgeries around the eyes are higher risk). Also, keep in mind that these ratios may not bc accurate if you took that picture really close to the camera as such pictures are subject to lens distortion and make your face look longer and narrower than it actually is.

Thats a great answer! Thank you for all these details. It makes much sense on most points, My chin and mouth are bit small compared to my jaw but I won’t touch that because I think its fine for a man to have some feminine features ( except the eyes ) it makes him more attractive.

HOWEVER, my eyes are my biggest failo and I will only focus on them now, so I need hardmax and I want your opinion :

• Canthopexy alone as you mentioned ?

• Canthopexy with fat graft under eyes ?

• Lower rid retraction ,spacer graft and Canthopexy ? as Dr Vrcek suggested to me

• Only under eyes fat graft could lift the lower lid ?

 

[levaloisperret1998]

You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about, just shut up dude

Why ? What do you think though ?

 

[tweaqo]

Can fat graft help raise the lower lid or I need fat graft+ canthopexy? Does canthopexy leave scar or uncanny look ?

IMG-9194 hosted at ImgBB

Image IMG-9194 in Okletsgoom's images album

ibb.co

fat graft can help lower lid, I can link a thread which explains this with before and afters

 

[levaloisperret1998]

fat graft can help lower lid, I can link a thread which explains this with before and afters

Yes show me! But I guess its not permanent?especially im planning to lose 6% body fat in the future

 

[Marelago]

Im 6feet1, my eyes they look good okay but round and feminine I want more masculine eyes to get more respect. Girls usually tell me I have a baby face!

Hmm a bit contradictory they can't look good when they are round and feminine in a man's face. Pagnoni could be right, but it can also be an excuse to not do surgery on you for other reasons.
Show pics of your face then we can assess your case.

 

[tweaqo]

Yes show me! But I guess its not permanent?especially im planning to lose 6% body fat in the future

Fat grafts are about 70-80% permanent.

U need to be at your ideal bf % that u are happy with for the rest of ur life when u get the procedure, if u lose loads of bf, u may lose some of the fat that was transferred to your eyes. SO GET THE FAT GRAFT AFTER YOU'RE HAPPY WITH UR BF%.


read through this WHOLE thread, there is lots of useful info, including lower lid

FAT GRAFTING RESULTS (HIGHLY REQUESTED)

I’m going to put minimal effort into this. Before 1 month after 4 months after (today) (If I squint I can make my eyes look exactly like the 1 month mark which were essentially relaxed at the time. All photos are the same level of relaxed, probably 2-5% squint which is my natural state) I...

looksmax.org

 

[levaloisperret1998]

Hmm a bit contradictory they can't look good when they are round and feminine in a man's face. Pagnoni could be right, but it can also be an excuse to not do surgery on you for other reasons.
Show pics of your face then we can assess your case.

I get some compliments from women about my eyes, maybe the long dark lashes? But anyway my goal now is more masculine eyes I want more respect and awake man vibes than attractiveness.

Paganoni said he could do it but he literally told me to save money because it could be not worth the investment and there is risk of too much forward projection and the results could be done by only canthopexy! He is very honest though

I have attached picture above

 

[Marelago]

I get some compliments from women about my eyes, maybe the long dark lashes? But anyway my goal now is more masculine eyes I want more respect and awake man vibes than attractiveness.

Paganoni said he could do it but he literally told me to save money because it could be not worth the investment and there is risk of too much forward projection and the results could be done by only canthopexy! He is very honest though

I have attached picture above

Hey thanks can't see the pics.

 

[2marc1]

Keep coping and stfu yourself

its true, you measured a shitty distorted pic of him..

 

[tweaqo]

Orbital decompression maybe blud

why tf would he get orbital decompression

 

[levaloisperret1998]

its true, you measured a shitty distorted pic of him..

Here is another picture if someone could rate

Download IMG_4247.jpeg | LimeWire

Download IMG_4247.jpeg on LimeWire

limewire.com

 

[levaloisperret1998]

Hey thanks can't see the pics.

See now

 

[lookmaxxer998]

its true, you measured a shitty distorted pic of him..

As I said in my comment, the ratios could be off if he’s too close up

 

[levaloisperret1998]

As I said in my comment, the ratios could be off if he’s too close up

I uploaded a new picture and its not too close up. if you could rate again? I appreciate your time!

 

[lookmaxxer998]

Thats a great answer! Thank you for all these details. It makes much sense on most points, My chin and mouth are bit small compared to my jaw but I won’t touch that because I think its fine for a man to have some feminine features ( except the eyes ) it makes him more attractive.

HOWEVER, my eyes are my biggest failo and I will only focus on them now, so I need hardmax and I want your opinion :

• Canthopexy alone as you mentioned ?

• Canthopexy with fat graft under eyes ?

• Lower rid retraction ,spacer graft and Canthopexy ? as Dr Vrcek suggested to me

• Only under eyes fat graft could lift the lower lid ?

Honestly, I wouldn’t recommend anything other than eyes. Even Chico has some feminine features. In fact, high levels of facial masculinity are actually non-ideal. Most of the data shows having a face in between masculine and feminine is ideal. This is why pretty boys are considered pretty. There are things that should ideally remain masculine:eyes and jaws. Think your jaws are fine so only eyes could use help.

 

[levaloisperret1998]

Honestly, I wouldn’t recommend anything other than eyes. Even Chico has some feminine features. In fact, high levels of facial masculinity are actually non-ideal. Most of the data shows having a face in between masculine and feminine is ideal. This is why pretty boys are considered pretty. There are things that should ideally remain masculine:eyes and jaws. Think your jaws are fine so only eyes could use help.

Yes brother thats what I said im not touching anything, only lifting the lower lid

 

[Acne Victim]

Why ? What do you think though ?

Your ratios are completely fine, good skull shape. Harvey specter vibes, aka tall and wide, high class.

And the pic you provided has much more of a rapist vibe than a childish one lmao.

To look better you most likely need better soft tissue, not bones. Post better pictures.

 

[2marc1]

Yes brother thats what I said im not touching anything, only lifting the lower lid

canthopexy and canthoplasty , or any related skin surgery shit is fucking ASS
you are not 60-70-80 etc to get them, your skin is not saggy, and it will reverse in 5-10 years, not worth at all

 

[levaloisperret1998]

Your ratios are completely fine, good skull shape. Harvey specter vibes, aka tall and wide, high class.

And the pic you provided has much more of a rapist vibe than a childish one lmao.

To look better you most likely need better soft tissue, not bones. Post better pictures.

Appreciate that bro! I would consider canthopexy and some graft probably on the upper lid

 

[levaloisperret1998]

canthopexy and canthoplasty , or any related skin surgery shit is fucking ASS
you are not 60-70-80 etc to get them, your skin is not saggy, and it will reverse in 5-10 years, not worth at all

Well thats why I wanted saddle rim implant so it lifts the lower lid without skin surgery (cantho) but as I said Dr he told me implant in my case will add too much projection and canthopexy would do the job and can look natural. So Im here trying to see if cantho could provide natural results or not
Dr vrcek he suggested lower lid rid retraction with spacer graft and canthopexy and I saw a result from him it was not bad honestly.

 

[2marc1]

Well thats why I wanted saddle rim implant so it lifts the lower lid without skin surgery (cantho) but as I said Dr he told me implant in my case will add too much projection and canthopexy would do the job and can look natural. So Im here trying to see if cantho could provide natural results or not
Dr vrcek he suggested lower lid rid retraction with spacer graft and canthopexy and I saw a result from him it was not bad honestly.

yeah but about skin surgerys, they are mostly done on old people, when they skins are saggy, on people with healthy skin and collagen it isnt really worth it.
i would go for a fatgraft, theres some results of fatgrafts in this forum, and they look pretty nice and give a nice undereye support.
You could even try HA fillers first to see how it looks.

 

[Lefor3Laser]

fat graft can help lower lid, I can link a thread which explains this with before and afters

Yes, people should learn the difference between fat grafts, lower lid retraction (llr) and chantoplasty.

Fat grafts should only be done when it's lack of fat, chantoplasty/pexy should be done when the chantus is negative (can act like llr but different since it affects the eyes and it may even leave a hollow space between the chantus and the eye), llr should only be done when the lower lid is loose, and so on, basically he should get the surgery based on his problem, that's my point.

 

[qelk]

Do you have wisdom teeths? My forward projection is good to but under eye shit. I hope my situation is justlike you cause implants are risky and expensive

can you fr go blind from saddled infras?

 

[tweaqo]

Yes, people should learn the difference between fat grafts, lower lid retraction (llr) and chantoplasty.

Fat grafts should only be done when it's lack of fat, chantoplasty/pexy should be done when the chantus is negative (can act like llr but different since it affects the eyes and it may even leave a hollow space between the chantus and the eye), llr should only be done when the lower lid is loose, and so on, basically he should get the surgery based on his problem, that's my point.

Yes this is very true, everyone’s cases are different, no point in getting a fat graft if your fat pads are good, i personally have good bone, and positive canthus but terrible genetic hollowed eyes and eye bags

 

[tweaqo]

can you fr go blind from saddled infras?

There are risks associated with every surgery, some have more risks than others though.

 

[Acne Victim]

Appreciate that bro! I would consider canthopexy and some graft probably on the upper lid

Look into that but also things that will make you prettier. Better lips, eyelashes, eyebrows, teeth, all of these should have an even bigger impact if improved.

 

[flatcheck213]

Can fat graft help raise the lower lid or I need fat graft+ canthopexy? Does canthopexy leave scar or uncanny look ?

IMG-9194 hosted at ImgBB

Image IMG-9194 in Okletsgoom's images album

ibb.co

He’s right, go for it

 

[FrenchareMedCucks]

Just do fat grafts for under eyes and yeux clairs in Spain to get light eyes and you will mogg

low risk reward surgeries and relatively cheap

 

[levaloisperret1998]

Just do fat grafts for under eyes and yeux clairs in Spain to get light eyes and you will mogg

low risk reward surgeries and relatively cheap

what color to get for my eyes ? Maybe a colour close to my original eyes so people I know won’t notice the change

 

[Ogionth]

what color to get for my eyes ? Maybe a colour close to my original eyes so people I know won’t notice the change

Do not get eye-colour surgery, no matter what.

Contact lenses with a prominent limbal ring are enough, brother.

They're easily change-able and much more natural-looking, more than 90% of eye colour change surgeries look UNCANNY asf.


With ANY surgery, your first priority should be to look as natural as physically possible and eye surgery is a VERY huge risk to that together with its other risks.