The modern submissive man & why many of you are hoeless at MTN+

[CorinthianLOX]

This is impossible in the modern era. Women reject most men who are sub HTN or just cheat on their sub HTN boyfriends with HTN+ men.

@luuk thoughts?

 

[Aox Ofwar]

One of the worst byproducts of internet culture is the emergence of the “submissive” man, who fetishises some sort of “dom mommy” archetype of woman that rarely exists outside of pornography, usually related to the fetishisation of goth/alt girls or even tall/fat ones, girls often outside of the conventional beauty standard and population norm.

I’m not just going to blame the internet for this, it is cultural. When men are told that “sexually harassing” a woman is the ultimate sin, are socialised to believe that the expression of male sexuality is evil, and that they should never approach women outside of a select range of “socially appropriate” 3rd spaces which are rapidly shrinking, it is unsurprising that the male mating strategy has changed.

Posing as “submissive” allows men to express their sexuality in a manner that is considered unthreatening and thus not as inappropriate, and thus does not invite the ire of the panopticon.

Even outside of the liberal feminist types, this mindset is prevalent here. People don’t want to approach women if they’re sub-HTN/sub6’ because they consider it a humiliation ritual; after all, chad gets women to approach him, why should I bother?

This is a moronic worldview as one has to accept that the winners of the genetic lottery will get special treatment. But human nature has not changed, for the most part, the avg women is submissive and a man is meant to be dominant, and a woman wants YOU to make the first move, to prove yourself as competent and capable of taking the lead. As a man you need to be able to handle rejection- if your sensitivity gets in the way of this you’ll die alone.

Redpillers get this right- be a man and learn to approach and take rejection once you’ve improved your appearance to a suitable degree instead of autistically obsessing about failos that mean nothing

Fuck is this another truthnuke

 

[CorinthianLOX]

I could suck it up and approach but I just don't get the chance to...? I see a girl I'm attracted to alone in public I'd say less than once per month. The store, the gym, everywhere I go even in college towns is just boomers, families with kids, and normie couples. When I do see an attractive girl she's almost always insulated by some group or something, or at her work, where approaching would just be too awkward. This is how I know all those cold approach videos are fake, young women don't do things alone.

Also, I'm convinced that you can approach a girl and she can think you're hot and really like you but then forget or deprioritize you by that weekend.

This is also very true. Imagine how retarded you must seem to that girl when you approach her in a casual setting jfl

 

[luuk]

I could suck it up and approach but I just don't get the chance to...? I see a girl I'm attracted to alone in public I'd say less than once per month. The store, the gym, everywhere I go even in college towns is just boomers, families with kids, and normie couples. When I do see an attractive girl she's almost always insulated by some group or something, or at her work, where approaching would just be too awkward. This is how I know all those cold approach videos are fake, young women don't do things alone.

Also, I'm convinced that you can approach a girl and she can think you're hot and really like you but then forget or deprioritize you by that weekend.

im not saying to cold approach lone girls in public you should go to places where they’ll be more receptive, ideally whilst with friends of your own
or warm approach girls you’re already cool with
you might be a standardcel though if you only see one worth approaching a month, or you don’t go out enough

 

[armemann]

but chat to as many girls as you can, flirt whenever it feels right, approach in bars/clubs/3rd spaces etc. Learn to make it feel natural

yea tbh i need to socialmaxx but im kinda depressed so i just wanna rot unfortunately

also i would rather work an 8 hour shift than approach a girl atp

they have so INCREDIBLY much choices

 

[armemann]

yea tbh i need to socialmaxx but im kinda depressed so i just wanna rot unfortunately

also i would rather work an 8 hour shift than approach a girl atp

they have so INCREDIBLY much choices

its just EMBARRASSING to approach

u literally feel like a kings jester trying to be funny to keep him from killing you

 

[luuk]

yea tbh i need to socialmaxx but im kinda depressed so i just wanna rot unfortunately

break the cycle, rotting is making you depressed which makes you want to rot
make some promises to yourself and fix your lifestyle first and foremost. once your hormones and sleep and everything else aren’t cooked you need to be getting regular socialisation, and from there you’ll have opportunities

also i would rather work an 8 hour shift than approach a girl atp

they have so INCREDIBLY much choices

they don’t offline when most men are bitches who are too scared to talk to women
you are at a massive advantage over every man in her dms if you have her attention irl

 

[Divineincel]

i’m 6’3” MMTN so in a pretty similar situation to you and i’ve slayed fairly easily recently
don’t go up to random girls on the street im not saying to do any pua bs
but chat to as many girls as you can, flirt whenever it feels right, approach in bars/clubs/3rd spaces etc. Learn to make it feel natural

You are 6’3, that’s why it works for you. Do you think someone that is 5’7 and mtn would still have success?

 

[Corruptt]

Approaching is submissive

Everything in the system is upside down its meant to be the other way around in nature

"Going after what you want" only becomes masculine when it means rape but you cant do that nowadays

Who gonna stop us?

 

[luuk]

its just EMBARRASSING to approach

u literally feel like a kings jester trying to be funny to keep him from killing you

don’t perform or jestermaxx. make small talk, introduce yourself, if she’s attracted you’ll notice iois. ideally meet her through somewhere you’ll go to regularly to build familiarity then warm approach if she appears interested

 

[luuk]

You are 6’3, that’s why it works for you. Do you think someone that is 5’7 and mtn would still have success?

5’7” mtn is pushing it
you should have an smv of or nearing MTN to start having a chance with the avg woman. 5’7” probably brings you down to the lower end of LTN overall with an MTN face in the west unfortunately

 

[dogedogedoge]

What do you look like?

Twink

 

[dogedogedoge]

were they dominant or did you just put them in a position of dominance leading to short-lived and unfulfilling connections

They were dominant

 

[armemann]

don’t perform or jestermaxx. make small talk, introduce yourself, if she’s attracted you’ll notice iois. ideally meet her through somewhere you’ll go to regularly to build familiarity then warm approach if she appears interested

ur probably from the US right?

 

[luuk]

This is impossible in the modern era. Women reject most men who are sub HTN or just cheat on their sub HTN boyfriends with HTN+ men.

simply delusional thats all it is
idc if people say i’m not blackpilled for this but this mindset is unnuanced and just not grounded in reality
yes women are hypergamous but not uniformly and objective facial metrics are population level, a HTN to one woman might be as appealing as a particular LTN to the next.

cheating is less a matter of facial aesthetics as it is about how she feels. if you can’t satisfy her or make her feel what she wants she won’t remain loyal. if you aren’t gl you have an uphill battle but its far more than just your face. and selecting for a high-quality woman not prone to that kind of impulsiveness and infidelity will reduce your overall risk

 

[GreenSoldier]

Foids approach me regularly and I still get nowhere with them 99% of the time lol

 

[luuk]

Foids approach me regularly and I still get nowhere with them 99% of the time lol

this is just having piss poor social skills whilst being GL you need to capitalise on it

 

[CorinthianLOX]

simply delusional thats all it is
idc if people say i’m not blackpilled for this but this mindset is unnuanced and just not grounded in reality
yes women are hypergamous but not uniformly and objective facial metrics are population level, a HTN to one woman might be as appealing as a particular LTN to the next.

cheating is less a matter of facial aesthetics as it is about how she feels. if you can’t satisfy her or make her feel what she wants she won’t remain loyal. if you aren’t gl you have an uphill battle but its far more than just your face. and selecting for a high-quality woman not prone to that kind of impulsiveness and infidelity will reduce your overall risk

Well I’m a subhumanly short mtn. I do have a big cock though

 

[isis_Bleach]

One of the worst byproducts of internet culture is the emergence of the “submissive” man, who fetishises some sort of “dom mommy” archetype of woman that rarely exists outside of pornography, usually related to the fetishisation of goth/alt girls or even tall/fat ones, girls often outside of the conventional beauty standard and population norm.

I’m not just going to blame the internet for this, it is cultural. When men are told that “sexually harassing” a woman is the ultimate sin, are socialised to believe that the expression of male sexuality is evil, and that they should never approach women outside of a select range of “socially appropriate” 3rd spaces which are rapidly shrinking, it is unsurprising that the male mating strategy has changed.

Posing as “submissive” allows men to express their sexuality in a manner that is considered unthreatening and thus not as inappropriate, and thus does not invite the ire of the panopticon.

Even outside of the liberal feminist types, this mindset is prevalent here. People don’t want to approach women if they’re sub-HTN/sub6’ because they consider it a humiliation ritual; after all, chad gets women to approach him, why should I bother?

This is a moronic worldview as one has to accept that the winners of the genetic lottery will get special treatment. But human nature has not changed, for the most part, the avg women is submissive and a man is meant to be dominant, and a woman wants YOU to make the first move, to prove yourself as competent and capable of taking the lead. As a man you need to be able to handle rejection- if your sensitivity gets in the way of this you’ll die alone.

Redpillers get this right- be a man and learn to approach and take rejection once you’ve improved your appearance to a suitable degree instead of autistically obsessing about failos that mean nothing

dnr but ight

 

[prolarper]

Approaching is submissive

Everything in the system is upside down its meant to be the other way around in nature

"Going after what you want" only becomes masculine when it means rape but you cant do that nowadays

i guess bro

 

[Whatever]

im not saying to cold approach lone girls in public you should go to places where they’ll be more receptive, ideally whilst with friends of your own
or warm approach girls you’re already cool with
you might be a standardcel though if you only see one worth approaching a month, or you don’t go out enough

Now you're moving your own goalposts, you did say that in your first post, "that they should never approach women outside of a select range of “socially appropriate” 3rd spaces which are rapidly shrinking".

Also you talk like everyone has friends to go to bars and clubs with, not everyone does, I've gone my entire life (except for 1 year of college) without ever getting invited to anything. Did much better than most normie guys when I finally was, but just making friends and getting included is almost impossible for myself and I'm sure a lot of other people here, so we end up systemically locked out of even the chance to interact with a girl at the right time.

I've had one night out with friends in the past 10 years. Obviously I know this is a problem but the only way I see out of it is specialty/hobby related ways of putting myself out there which I have plans to work on. The problem is not that I don't approach girls, that is a symptom of broader social isolation that is my real problem.

The only people your post would be applicable to are guys who are already heavily socially included, but high inhib, which is not that many guys on here nor in the real world.

 

[GreenSoldier]

this is just having piss poor social skills whilst being GL you need to capitalise on it

has more so to do with Irish women being demented retards. I'm not some ultra low inhib badboy but my teenage days of being quite literally socially handicapped are gone now. There's no real logical reason for me to be doing as bad as I do considering my rate of approaches and glazes from both foids and normie men.
Some people like me just didn't come out of the box with the programming that normies do.
Good post though.

 

[Detective]

45% of 18-25yo men have never asked out a woman in person which is tragic

why would you do that if you know you will get rejected

 

[luuk]

Well I’m a subhumanly short mtn. I do have a big cock though

subhumanly short is like 5’6” and below, if you are then yeah my condolences
its not completely over but you’d need to have very thick skin to weed out enough women until you found one that doesn’t mind the height
geomaxxing could help you a lot though as could LL

 

[Nectar]

Nice post + based IE warrior pfp

 

[CorinthianLOX]

subhumanly short is like 5’6” and below, if you are then yeah my condolences
its not completely over but you’d need to have very thick skin to weed out enough women until you found one that doesn’t mind the height
geomaxxing could help you a lot though as could LL

I’m 5’7 with anterior pelvic tilt

 

[khrome]

45% of 18-25yo men have never asked out a woman in person which is tragic

coldcall? or in general

 

[luuk]

coldcall? or in general

in general, 45% of men 18-25 have never asked anyone, warm or cold approach, on a date irl.

 

[luuk]

I’m 5’7 with anterior pelvic tilt

so 5’8” if you fix it, not over
not exactly a good height to be but workable. LL or geomaxxing would ascend you

 

[CorinthianLOX]

so 5’8” if you fix it, not over
not exactly a good height to be but workable. LL or geomaxxing would ascend you

Is LL or geomaxxing the only way?

 

[luuk]

Is LL or geomaxxing the only way?

you could absolutely get laid or find an LTR at 5’7/8 MTN its just not easy and you’d get rejected a lot in the process and you’re getting LTBs/MTBs at best

 

[CorinthianLOX]

you could absolutely get laid or find an LTR at 5’7/8 MTN its just not easy and you’d get rejected a lot in the process and you’re getting LTBs/MTBs at best

Could I get mtb+ women if I manage to ascend to htn with dropping my bf% to 8-12%?

 

[brimyyy101]

i'm making it up lol yea but i get fearful like that whenever i want to approach a woman

honestly i just talk to girls online instead

same here i have much more game online, irl the thought of approaching a girl scares me

 

[theonewhocantascend]

45% of 18-25yo men have never asked out a woman in person which is tragic

Women are evil nowadays, there are so many instances of average men asking foids out just to become the butt of the joke at some TikTok video.

But this is a smart thread nonetheless.
I never really thought that much about the whole Goth Mommy thing.
I assumed it was just a byproduct of porn abuse and the sickening foot fetishism that is promoted by (()) which is inherent to Femdom.

 

[luuk]

Women are evil nowadays, there are so many instances of average men asking foids out just to become the butt of the joke at some TikTok video.

0.001% of actual irl approach interactions being fed to you by an algorithm designed to make you miserable btw

But this is a smart thread nonetheless.
I never really thought that much about the whole Goth Mommy thing.
I assumed it was just a byproduct of porn abuse and the sickening foot fetishism that is promoted by (()) which is inherent to Femdom.

Porn is definitely a big factor but its downstream from our culture

 

[BeardedUnicorn]

Now you're moving your own goalposts, you did say that in your first post, "that they should never approach women outside of a select range of “socially appropriate” 3rd spaces which are rapidly shrinking".

Also you talk like everyone has friends to go to bars and clubs with, not everyone does, I've gone my entire life (except for 1 year of college) without ever getting invited to anything. Did much better than most normie guys when I finally was, but just making friends and getting included is almost impossible for myself and I'm sure a lot of other people here, so we end up systemically locked out of even the chance to interact with a girl at the right time.

I've had one night out with friends in the past 10 years. Obviously I know this is a problem but the only way I see out of it is specialty/hobby related ways of putting myself out there which I have plans to work on. The problem is not that I don't approach girls, that is a symptom of broader social isolation that is my real problem.

The only people your post would be applicable to are guys who are already heavily socially included, but high inhib, which is not that many guys on here nor in the real world.

>socially included but high inhib
This is me and many others. I have locked myself out of many chances but not making the right moves. But these chances seem to have happened when i was younger moreso than now.

Also I disagree with the notion that any level of cold approach is moot, I have gotten girls contact infos from plane rides and had long convos. Although mainly never with American foids, which is telling. One was from my flight from Dubai with a Moroccan girl. I could've met up with her if I was definitely in the same time same vicinity as she said for me to come visit her but she eventually stopped responding when she figured it wasn't going to work. Yeah if you go about cold approaching like a pua at the supermarket you will get shit results but finding a good moment to strike up a convo can be ideal.

I feel like you have taken a backseat with the proximity pill in general since you have had success with OLD. In my area the trends you talked about last year are amplfying and if anything I was way more adamant about looks theory back then. But I see so many Kevin Nyugen asians with white beckies and white moggers with ABG gooks who they giga mog. At bars and clubs I notice alot of manlets making out with foids in settings where social circle isn't involved, if anything I see more tall htns running social circle game. At least you aren't one of the retards who think that there are zero mtn manlets slaying their looksmatch through proximity or have reached that point.

I kind of had an eye opening experience with a tallfag htn friend of mine recently this weekend, who opened up to me about a former ex that he cheated on and regreted it. I heard him mumbling to himself about it and he genuinely was tearing up. I always envied him, maybe I am coping but seeing that kind of made me appreciate the success I have had as a socially integreted mtn manlet. I feel as though I appreciate the lays I have had way more, whereas for guys like him who have experienced the taste of being a slayer can never really give up the freedom but at the same time want the relationship but can't really get it at least on their terms. I think he even fell for the redpill/blackpill memes of just run dread/cheat on her bro (or chad can do what he wants). I don't have many slays, and I do have to do p4p alot of times. But the quality and experiences I have had with normie foids seem more genuine and longer lasting than the void these slayers have. Maybe former 6ft4 can relate. I guess it really is all relative.

 

[BeardedUnicorn]

Now you're moving your own goalposts, you did say that in your first post, "that they should never approach women outside of a select range of “socially appropriate” 3rd spaces which are rapidly shrinking".

Also you talk like everyone has friends to go to bars and clubs with, not everyone does, I've gone my entire life (except for 1 year of college) without ever getting invited to anything. Did much better than most normie guys when I finally was, but just making friends and getting included is almost impossible for myself and I'm sure a lot of other people here, so we end up systemically locked out of even the chance to interact with a girl at the right time.

I've had one night out with friends in the past 10 years. Obviously I know this is a problem but the only way I see out of it is specialty/hobby related ways of putting myself out there which I have plans to work on. The problem is not that I don't approach girls, that is a symptom of broader social isolation that is my real problem.

The only people your post would be applicable to are guys who are already heavily socially included, but high inhib, which is not that many guys on here nor in the real world.

>'ve had one night out with friends in the past 10 years. Obviously I know this is a problem but the only way I see out of it is specialty/hobby related ways of putting myself out there which I have plans to work on. The problem is not that I don't approach girls, that is a symptom of broader social isolation that is my real problem.

Is this true? How do you go 10 years without having at least one night out with at least coworkers or something?

 

[Alienmaxxer]

if ur talking about the mythical “goth dommy mommy” archetype there are none for you because there is 100x more demand than supply for them and they probably want htn prettyboy alt guys
they’re mostly a fabrication of the internet

I've got them a few times but I'm not sub-htn and I'm a prettyboy autist.

 

[Whatever]

>socially included but high inhib
This is me and many others. I have locked myself out of many chances but not making the right moves. But these chances seem to have happened when i was younger moreso than now.

Also I disagree with the notion that any level of cold approach is moot, I have gotten girls contact infos from plane rides and had long convos. Although mainly never with American foids, which is telling. One was from my flight from Dubai with a Moroccan girl. I could've met up with her if I was definitely in the same time same vicinity as she said for me to come visit her but she eventually stopped responding when she figured it wasn't going to work. Yeah if you go about cold approaching like a pua at the supermarket you will get shit results but finding a good moment to strike up a convo can be ideal.

I feel like you have taken a backseat with the proximity pill in general since you have had success with OLD. In my area the trends you talked about last year are amplfying and if anything I was way more adamant about looks theory back then. But I see so many Kevin Nyugen asians with white beckies and white moggers with ABG gooks who they giga mog. At bars and clubs I notice alot of manlets making out with foids in settings where social circle isn't involved, if anything I see more tall htns running social circle game. At least you aren't one of the retards who think that there are zero mtn manlets slaying their looksmatch through proximity or have reached that point.

I kind of had an eye opening experience with a tallfag htn friend of mine recently this weekend, who opened up to me about a former ex that he cheated on and regreted it. I heard him mumbling to himself about it and he genuinely was tearing up. I always envied him, maybe I am coping but seeing that kind of made me appreciate the success I have had as a socially integreted mtn manlet. I feel as though I appreciate the lays I have had way more, whereas for guys like him who have experienced the taste of being a slayer can never really give up the freedom but at the same time want the relationship but can't really get it at least on their terms. I think he even fell for the redpill/blackpill memes of just run dread/cheat on her bro (or chad can do what he wants). I don't have many slays, and I do have to do p4p alot of times. But the quality and experiences I have had with normie foids seem more genuine and longer lasting than the void these slayers have. Maybe former 6ft4 can relate. I guess it really is all relative.

>'ve had one night out with friends in the past 10 years. Obviously I know this is a problem but the only way I see out of it is specialty/hobby related ways of putting myself out there which I have plans to work on. The problem is not that I don't approach girls, that is a symptom of broader social isolation that is my real problem.

Is this true? How do you go 10 years without having at least one night out with at least coworkers or something?

Actually that was somewhat exaggerated, I had something of a social circle in 2019 and had a few parties at the shared house I was living in. But other than that, yes, only one night where I reunited with friends from college and we went out. But nothing else because I've moved a lot, lived mostly in very rural areas, worked jobs where I was either alone or all my coworkers are much older and married, I won't even get into personality/NT type stuff but the opportunities for me to make friends to go out with just aren't there. So I'm entirely on my own to put myself out there. This is where hobbies can come into play, I have ideas but can't really get started on them yet. And yes I've had OLD slays but I would rather meet girls in person.

When I talk about proximity what I'm really trying to get at is a much less egotistical way of viewing sex and relationships. That sex and relationships are very often just as much about the situation and environment they grow out of than the people involved and their looks levels. You have to look at the context and timing, the way I see it as the context and timing make for a spectrum of how much black pill style raw attraction is the driver versus how much is the environment pushing people into sex or relationships. OLD slaying, when the girl messages first and is serious about hooking up that night, is when black pill rules are in effect and the looks requirements are much higher. Everyone getting drunk at a club or party, the girl isn't really getting her first choice so the requirement lowers and the guys involved are more interchangeable.

With your tall HTN friend who cheated, I cheated on my first girl too (not really cheated because we weren't official just yet but I prioritized another girl over her) and I still regret it too, I've cried over it and lost sleep over it too. My first girl was by far the better girl in every way but the other girl lived a 5 minute walk from me and was inviting me over just about every day. It's this experience that made me realize when someone has options, they might not pick the best one, maybe the most convenient or the one that their overall life situation at the time pushes them towards. So I use that to understand girls and how they choose between their perpetual options.

I never said that cold approaching is moot, I've fucked a girl who cold approached me. But you need external/circumstantial/environmental factors on your side for it to turn into a date or sex. The guy being hot and making a good impression is not enough, because that's only half of it, much more importantly there needs to be openness on her part that I'd say girls are very cyclical with. The world is not an MMORPG, girls have lives and are extremely busy and will make time for guys only when it's convenient for them. With the Moroccan girl, I've been in situations like that when I've traveled, regardless of how she felt about you the timing and context wasn't there for you and her to fuck or date. Because it's the timing and context that decides just as much as the people involved.

 

[1966Ford]

45% of 18-25yo men have never asked out a woman in person which is tragic

Let the foids do it

 

[1966Ford]

Also, I'm convinced that you can approach a girl and she can think you're hot and really like you but then forget or deprioritize you by that weekend.

Shows how cold they are

 

[princeof316]

One of the worst byproducts of internet culture is the emergence of the “submissive” man, who fetishises some sort of “dom mommy” archetype of woman that rarely exists outside of pornography, usually related to the fetishisation of goth/alt girls or even tall/fat ones, girls often outside of the conventional beauty standard and population norm.

I’m not just going to blame the internet for this, it is cultural. When men are told that “sexually harassing” a woman is the ultimate sin, are socialised to believe that the expression of male sexuality is evil, and that they should never approach women outside of a select range of “socially appropriate” 3rd spaces which are rapidly shrinking, it is unsurprising that the male mating strategy has changed.

Posing as “submissive” allows men to express their sexuality in a manner that is considered unthreatening and thus not as inappropriate, and thus does not invite the ire of the panopticon.

Even outside of the liberal feminist types, this mindset is prevalent here. People don’t want to approach women if they’re sub-HTN/sub6’ because they consider it a humiliation ritual; after all, chad gets women to approach him, why should I bother?

This is a moronic worldview as one has to accept that the winners of the genetic lottery will get special treatment. But human nature has not changed, for the most part, the avg women is submissive and a man is meant to be dominant, and a woman wants YOU to make the first move, to prove yourself as competent and capable of taking the lead. As a man you need to be able to handle rejection- if your sensitivity gets in the way of this you’ll die alone.

Redpillers get this right- be a man and learn to approach and take rejection once you’ve improved your appearance to a suitable degree instead of autistically obsessing about failos that mean nothing

Honestly who actually wants another person to be dominant over their life?

 

[1966Ford]

With my autism I would just end up like this guy

Fuckkk I used to listen to Denmo man when I was redpilled