The most optimized, perfect PPL split (experienced Gymcels GTFIH)

[irrumator praetor]

Push 20 sets
(personal preference, shift volume between upper/lower chest as you wanna)
dips 4 sets
incline 3 sets
flat bench 1 set
lateral raises 4 sets
triceps long head 2 sets, medial 2 sets
abs 4 sets

Pull 20 sets
lat pulldowns/bodyweight pullups 4 sets
Rows 4 sets
facepulls 4 sets
lateral raises 4 sets
biceps long head 2 sets short head 2 sets

legs 16 sets but higher cns and lower back fatigue (although i checked and lower back gets just enough sets so)
low bar squats 6 sets
calf raises 4 sets
hamstring curls 4 sets
forearms 2 sets cuz y not

You shouldn't be able to debate this split at all JFL also its right under an hour of work anyway (not including cardio)

 

[bibiprocházka271]

setting niggaz up for failure

 

[irrumator praetor]

setting niggaz up for failure

bro won't even elaborate just talking shit

 

[gymcelld]

I think 4sets is a lot of muscle fatigue

Personally I would change it to 2x sets

And ppl is only 2x frequency a week

 

[irrumator praetor]

I think 4sets is a lot of muscle fatigue

Personally I would change it to 2x sets

And ppl is only 2x frequency a week

if you do >2x a week frequency in that case 4 sets is too much fatigue but this is twice a week ppl

 

[gymcelld]

if you do >2x a week frequency in that case 4 sets is too much fatigue but this is twice a week ppl

What days do you train?

 

[irrumator praetor]

What days do you train?

with this split every day except 1 in the week

 

[bibiprocházka271]

bro won't even elaborate just talking shit

shit shoulder work

4 sets of abs on push

4 facepulls

and vague on the arms too stop reading halfway nigtard

 

[gymcelld]

with this split every day except 1 in the week

Ok how do you recover form
This level of training

 

[irrumator praetor]

shit shoulder work

4 sets of abs on push

4 facepulls

and vague on the arms too stop reading halfway nigtard

this is twice a week.... nigger? 16 weekly sets of mid delts, 8 weekly facepulls, etc. Front delts get volume from pressing
i had to put abs somewhere, obviously
vague on the arms? triceps get volume from pressing, biceps get volume from pulling

 

[irrumator praetor]

Ok how do you recover form
This level of training

10 eggs a day and 300g of meat as it pertains to protein, and balanced fat+carbs up to 3k calories for my weight and height. I feel fine by the time its time to start the split over again.

 

[gymcelld]

10 eggs a day and 300g of meat as it pertains to protein, and balanced fat+carbs up to 3k calories for my weight and height. I feel fine by the time its time to start the split over again.

No pre workout/energy drinks holy shit man

 

[irrumator praetor]

No pre workout/energy drinks holy shit man

never needed that shit, although i am an intermediate and not a beginner. This isn't a beginner split. But I've researched the exercises and this is a perfect selection, so if you are a beginner, you'd just alter the volume. Hence why I claim its the most optimized, perfect PPL split twice a week obviously

 

[irrumator praetor]

for beginners literally cut the volume in half, its so easy
you'd get an elite beginner workout for 30 mins JFL

 

[gymcelld]

@truejamal thoughts on this

 

[Leo]

I think 4sets is a lot of muscle fatigue

Personally I would change it to 2x sets

And ppl is only 2x frequency a week

i do 2 sets failure on EVERYTHING

 

[irrumator praetor]

only things that you could add to this split as it pertains to special isolation is these:
upper traps (shrugs), hammer curls, upper forearm isolation (jfl), maybe cut hamstring curls in half and replace that missing volume with RDLs if you insist on more variation, everything else gets hit with this split

 

[irrumator praetor]

@bibiprocházka271 post your split here you czech faggot, you can't say shit about this split

 

[molecule8]

dnr i hate the gym, 3x full body split weekly or LDAR

 

[irrumator praetor]

dnr i hate the gym, 3x full body split weekly or LDAR

ok so either you don't hit everything properly or stay in the gym for longer than an hour

 

[bibiprocházka271]

@bibiprocházka271 post your split here you czech faggot, you can't say shit about this split

kys nigger im not czech and i cant gym everyday because of training but i hit full legs and chest in under 3 hours and back and shoulders fully under 3 hours

you dont even hit rear delts or neck retigger its over

 

[gymcelld]

i do 2 sets failure on EVERYTHING

High iq

 

[molecule8]

ok so either you don't hit everything properly or stay in the gym for longer than an hour

yeah 1-2 hours ngl, its still pretty optimal tho for MPS and time tradeoff

 

[irrumator praetor]

kys nigger im not czech and i cant gym everyday because of training but i hit full legs and chest in under 3 hours and back and shoulders fully under 3 hours

you dont even hit rear delts or neck retigger its over

facepulls are for rear delts
you do shrugs? ok thats your personal preference, usually you can hit upper traps, have them grow a lot, and never work them out again. If you're actively doing upper traps thats you, most don't need to consistently do upper traps as they just grow too much

jfl at back and shoulders under 3 hours. Ironically if you did this split you'd do back and shoulders in under hour and half. So, you can't even say shit about this split

chest and legs should take 2h max

 

[irrumator praetor]

i do 2 sets failure on EVERYTHING

High iq

thats strength training unless he hits the gym everyday and hits the same muscle more than twice a week

this is a hypertrophy split

 

[gymcelld]

thats strength training unless he hits the gym everyday and hits the same muscle more than twice a week

this is a hypertrophy split

Doing 2 sets is still good for hypertrophy mate

 

[irrumator praetor]

Doing 2 sets is still good for hypertrophy mate

yep if weekly frequency exceeds 2
everything has to essentially add up to 16 weekly sets per muscle, higher if you're advanced

 

[irrumator praetor]

BTW 112 total sets done per week, thats pretty much on target (should be around >100, <120)

 

[truejamal]

@truejamal thoughts on this

read ppl and dnred. fullbody or death

 

[mikre]

Push 20 sets
(personal preference, shift volume between upper/lower chest as you wanna)
dips 4 sets
incline 3 sets
flat bench 1 set
lateral raises 4 sets
triceps long head 2 sets, medial 2 sets
abs 4 sets

Pull 20 sets
lat pulldowns/bodyweight pullups 4 sets
Rows 4 sets
facepulls 4 sets
lateral raises 4 sets
biceps long head 2 sets short head 2 sets

legs 16 sets but higher cns and lower back fatigue (although i checked and lower back gets just enough sets so)
low bar squats 6 sets
calf raises 4 sets
hamstring curls 4 sets
forearms 2 sets cuz y not

You shouldn't be able to debate this split at all JFL also its right under an hour of work anyway (not including cardio)

I can tell you each thing that is wrong with that type of programming and just from reading it once i can see atleast 3 or 4

 

[irrumator praetor]

I can tell you each thing that is wrong with that type of programming and just from reading it once i can see atleast 3 or 4

whats that, then

 

[mikre]

whats that, then

ok so for push you got no front delt exercise (dips are considered a triceps exercise), you got 8 sets for triceps and we know from diminishing returns that 8 sets once a week is about the same as 1 set twice a week for about 9 times less fatigue than 8 sets all at once, you are prioritizing the clavicular head of the chest over the sternalcostal head in terms of volume and in exercise order even though the clavicular head is 1/7th of your chest compared to the sternalcostal head which is 6/7th of your chest.


For pull you are using 2 different exercises (pull ups and lat pulldowns). We know that when you alternate exercises you lose neural adaptations from the previous exercise so if you do pull ups 1 day then lat pulldowns 1 day you will get less neural adaptations than lat pulldowns 2 times a weeks. For rows you didnt specify if they were in the transversal plane or saggital plane

If they are in the transversal plane you arent maximizing lat growth since you arent training all functions

If they are in the saggital plane you arent training middle traps and rhomboids

Both should be included in the program

Next, face pull is a horrible exercise in terms of loadability, you cant pull more than your bodyweight since you have no chest support also puts a lot of load on your external rotators in your rotator cuff for no reason. You are then training side delts 2 days in a row witv a lot of volume so the accumulation in calcium ions will cause an injury overtime. Next you are training your biceps with 2 different exercises, contrary to popular beliefs, you cannot meaningfully bias short and long heads of the biceps since they both insert in the exact same place.

Next for legs, you are doing 6 sets of squats which is your only quads exercise, first 6 sets is way too much i already say why previously but there is another issue, during a squat your hips move the exact same ways as your knees do. One of your quads head, the rectus femoris is inserted at the hip and and the knee so when the hips and the knee move the same way, this head isnt changing length meaningfully so it gets close to no growth (studies have confirmed this numerous times too so it's not just theory) so you should add an exercise that has only your knee moving so a leg extension or a sissy squat. The other exercises are ok except forearms you didnt specify the exercise and you are missing some exercises in your leg day such as a hip hinge to train your erectors (one of the most aesthetic back muscles) glutes adductor magnus (half of the adductors) and part of the hamstrings. Then you got adductors which you are neglecting which make 1/3rd of your leg's width that you can train through hip adduction (hip extension trained through a hip hinge only trains adductor magnus which isnt your whole adductors) then you got hip abduction that trains the gluteus medius but thats ok if you neglect it

I hope this helped you lmk if you got any questions

 

[mikre]

@irrumator praetor also i didnt really talk about exercise selection for a few but every single exercise here except for a few has a way better/more stable alternative

 

[irrumator praetor]

ok so for push you got no front delt exercise (dips are considered a triceps exercise), you got 8 sets for triceps and we know from diminishing returns that 8 sets once a week is about the same as 1 set twice a week for about 9 times less fatigue than 8 sets all at once, you are prioritizing the clavicular head of the chest over the sternalcostal head in terms of volume and in exercise order even though the clavicular head is 1/7th of your chest compared to the sternalcostal head which is 6/7th of your chest.


For pull you are using 2 different exercises (pull ups and lat pulldowns). We know that when you alternate exercises you lose neural adaptations from the previous exercise so if you do pull ups 1 day then lat pulldowns 1 day you will get less neural adaptations than lat pulldowns 2 times a weeks. For rows you didnt specify if they were in the transversal plane or saggital plane

If they are in the transversal plane you arent maximizing lat growth since you arent training all functions

If they are in the saggital plane you arent training middle traps and rhomboids

Both should be included in the program

Next, face pull is a horrible exercise in terms of loadability, you cant pull more than your bodyweight since you have no chest support also puts a lot of load on your external rotators in your rotator cuff for no reason. You are then training side delts 2 days in a row witv a lot of volume so the accumulation in calcium ions will cause an injury overtime. Next you are training your biceps with 2 different exercises, contrary to popular beliefs, you cannot meaningfully bias short and long heads of the biceps since they both insert in the exact same place.

Next for legs, you are doing 6 sets of squats which is your only quads exercise, first 6 sets is way too much i already say why previously but there is another issue, during a squat your hips move the exact same ways as your knees do. One of your quads head, the rectus femoris is inserted at the hip and and the knee so when the hips and the knee move the same way, this head isnt changing length meaningfully so it gets close to no growth (studies have confirmed this numerous times too so it's not just theory) so you should add an exercise that has only your knee moving so a leg extension or a sissy squat. The other exercises are ok except forearms you didnt specify the exercise and you are missing some exercises in your leg day such as a hip hinge to train your erectors (one of the most aesthetic back muscles) glutes adductor magnus (half of the adductors) and part of the hamstrings. Then you got adductors which you are neglecting which make 1/3rd of your leg's width that you can train through hip adduction (hip extension trained through a hip hinge only trains adductor magnus which isnt your whole adductors) then you got hip abduction that trains the gluteus medius but thats ok if you neglect it

I hope this helped you lmk if you got any questions

thanks man, you helped me out with the rear delts and encouraged me to split the hamstring volume with some RDLs, and better distribute the mid delt volume, and split the squat volume with the leg extension. The forearm exercise is a standing cable straight bar forearm curl at clavicle/head level. The hope with the low bar squat was to also knock off volume for the lower back, adductors and glutes, but it looks like I'll have to change it up now.

There was a misunderstanding, I don't do both pullups and pulldowns, I do pulldowns personally but added pullups for the purposes of other people who are viewing this. As for the front delts, I consider pressing volume to match their required weekly volume (I consider half of my weekly chest volume as front delt volume, but you're right, dips aren't a pressing exercise as its primarily lower chest and triceps, so I will be changing that). Also, I don't do 8 sets all at once for triceps, I do 4 sets per session, twice a week. Afaik, its the lateral head thats primarily included in pressing, hence those 4 sets are for the medial and long heads. As for the incline press prio, afaik incline bench and flat bench both equally work out the sternalcostal head, with the incline bench also biasing the clavicular head, correct me if im mistaken. Yea the rows are chest supported and in line with the middle chest head, so biasing the traps more. The whole saggital plane stuff I guess I gotta read more about.

Thanks for your input man, refreshing to see good advice

 

[irrumator praetor]

@irrumator praetor also i didnt really talk about exercise selection for a few but every single exercise here except for a few has a way better/more stable alternative

interesting, I thought these exercises were already top picks. I already know for legs its gonna be lunges, bulgarian split squats, for back Im presuming its gonna be those standing barbell rows etc

 

[mikre]

thanks man, you helped me out with the rear delts and encouraged me to split the hamstring volume with some RDLs, and better distribute the mid delt volume, and split the squat volume with the leg extension. The forearm exercise is a standing cable straight bar forearm curl at clavicle/head level. The hope with the low bar squat was to also knock off volume for the lower back, adductors and glutes, but it looks like I'll have to change it up now.

There was a misunderstanding, I don't do both pullups and pulldowns, I do pulldowns personally but added pullups for the purposes of other people who are viewing this. As for the front delts, I consider pressing volume to match their required weekly volume (I consider half of my weekly chest volume as front delt volume, but you're right, dips aren't a pressing exercise as its primarily lower chest and triceps, so I will be changing that). Also, I don't do 8 sets all at once for triceps, I do 4 sets per session, twice a week. Afaik, its the lateral head thats primarily included in pressing, hence those 4 sets are for the medial and long heads. As for the incline press prio, afaik incline bench and flat bench both equally work out the sternalcostal head, with the incline bench also biasing the clavicular head, correct me if im mistaken. Yea the rows are chest supported and in line with the middle chest head, so biasing the traps more. The whole saggital plane stuff I guess I gotta read more about.

Thanks for your input man, refreshing to see good advice

Front delts main functions are shoulder flexion in hyperextension (no very comfortable i dont recommend) and shoulder abduction over 100° (basically a top half shoulder press)

For pull ups and lat pulldowns (im saying this for the others) never alternate always do the same sessions twice a week dont change exercises to not lose neural adaptations.

Incline press doesnt work the sternalcostal head as much as the flat press. The study that said that was doing an incline press with the eblows flared, your incline press should be close grip with your elbows tucked in to reproduce the same shoulder movement as a low to high fly.

Next for traps their functions are to retract the scapula so if you really want to do only one rowing movement make sure u go far back to retract your scapula

For forearms i suggest splitting the volume to 1 set wrist extension exercise and 1 set wrist flexion to not create an imbalance and add a grip exercise to work finger flexors (can be an isometric exercise, hold something grip it as tight as possible for 3sec take 2sec rest and repeat 5 times) finger flexors are the biggest part of your forearms. As for triceps i would like to know your exercises since dips are already a medial and lateral head exercise

 

[mikre]

interesting, I thought these exercises were already top picks. I already know for legs its gonna be lunges, bulgarian split squats, for back Im presuming its gonna be those standing barbell rows etc

Nononononononono, the more stable the better if you want i can send you my fullbody day to see my exercises but if you want a sample for chest its a pec deck (elbow pec decks are better but rarer) and low to high flies with a cuff. For quads its a leg extension+any stable squat pattern (leg press, hack squat, pendulum squat etc..)

 

[irrumator praetor]

Nononononononono, the more stable the better if you want i can send you my fullbody day to see my exercises but if you want a sample for chest its a pec deck (elbow pec decks are better but rarer) and low to high flies with a cuff. For quads its a leg extension+any stable squat pattern (leg press, hack squat, pendulum squat etc..)

Sure man, if you can send your full-body it would be greatly appreciated, thanks for the exercise recommendations

 

[irrumator praetor]

As for triceps i would like to know your exercises since dips are already a medial and lateral head exercise

I do 2 sets of cable straight bar tricep downward presses from the highest point on the cable machine, elbows locked on the side of the ribcage. Then for the medial head, basically the same setup except the underhand grip, moving it down, thats another 2 sets

 

[mikre]

I do 2 sets of cable straight bar tricep downward presses from the highest point on the cable machine, elbows locked on the side of the ribcage. Then for the medial head, basically the same setup except the underhand grip, moving it down, thats another 2 sets

Underhand grip just makes your humerus more stable which is a long head exercise, also grip is a limiting factor. For medial/laterla heads you gotta choose an exercise where your shoulder is moving (dips/jm press/close grip bench etc..)