The Only Guide to Sleeping Medication you Need (the Solution for persistent Insomnia)

thecaste

thecaste

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1. Why YOU need this guide

Insomnia is one of the most common sleep disorders. It is defined as persistent difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep despite adequate opportunity to sleep, accompanied by impaired daytime functioning. When these problems occur several times a week for at least three months, the condition is considered chronic. I would guess that insomnia is one of the most common discorders across the .org userbase which only gets aggravated by the chronic overuse of the forum, social media and the use of steroids or meds that can impair sleep/melatonin production (propranolol, ADHD-meds, GLP-1's etc.).

In the short term, insomnia causes fatigue, low or irritable mood and reduced concentration and memory. When it persists untreated, it is linked to lasting cognitive impairment, a higher risk of substance misuse and dependence, increased rates of depression, a poorer quality of life, and greater use of the healthcare system.

But what about the looks department?
Sleep deprivation typically produces a visibly "tired" look, dark circles and puffiness under the eyes, paler or duller skin etc. Studies rating sleep-deprived faces consistently find them judged as less healthy, less attractive, and more fatigued.
Over the longer term, chronic poor sleep affects the skin itself. Sleep is when the body carries out much of its repair, so ongoing deficit is linked to faster skin aging more fine lines and wrinkles, reduced elasticity, a weaker skin barrier, and slower recovery from sun and environmental stress. The complexion tends to look duller and less even. The effects on weight-management, hyperthrophy and hormonal levels (especially cortisol and test) are also dramatic.
Chronic insomnia is therefore best understood as a serious symptom rather than a minor complaint.

Can't I just treat insomnia with CBT and sleep hygiene?
Cognitive behavioural therapy and sleep hygiene (no eating right before sleep, enough exercise throughoit the day, a wind-down routine, no shitposting on .org before sleep etc.) is the cornerstone of treatment, but medication has an important complementary role. Psychotherapy takes time to take effect, requires sustained engagement, and is not always sufficient or readily accessible whereas medication can provide relief comparatively quickly, help in severe or acute cases, and support patients whose insomnia is driven by underlying overarousal. Modern agents in particular can improve sleep while largely preserving its natural structure, making a targeted pharmacological approach a valuable part of care rather than a last resort.

My experience:
I have suffered from insomnia for years. CBT and all the classical sleep hygiene copium methods didn't consistently help me as my sleep anxiety was way too strong. Only the use of actual sleeping meds could produce long lasting results. As far as I know, there isn't a guide on .org that actually systematically explains every existing sleeping med; most sleeping guides only focus on sleep hygiene which is complete water at this point.

So what are the options when it comes to sleeping meds?:feelshah:

2. Benzodiazepines and benzodiazepine analogues (Z-drugs)

They work by boosting GABA (same as alcohol), the brain's main inhibitory signal, which produces four core effects: they reduce anxiety, help sleep, relax muscles, and suppress seizures (brand names are xanax, temesta, valium etc.) They are effective at initiating and maintaining sleep, but there's a well-defined risk profile that limits their long-term use:

- Carryover (“hangover”) effects and accumulation, especially with longer-acting agents

- Muscle relaxation, which raises the risk of nocturnal falls

- Paradoxical reactions (agitation instead of sedation), particularly in the elderly

- Respiratory depression -> dangerous where sleep apnea is present but unrecognised

- Tolerance and dependence with continued use (benzo withdrawal can literally KILL you)

On sleep quality itself, classic benzodiazepines alter the natural architecture and tend to suppress deep (slow-wave) sleep. The newer benzodiazepine-receptor agonists (the “Z-drugs”: zolpidem, zopiclone and zaleplon) are presented as having a comparatively gentler side-effect profile, but the same caution about short-term use applies. My advice: Use it rarely and only for special events such as long-distance flights for example.


3. Sedating antidepressants

They are used at low doses primarily to intensify non-REM (deep) sleep. The preferred agents are mirtazapine, trazodone and agomelatine (and mianserin). A second group, trimipramine, doxepin and amitriptyline, is considered less advisable in older patients because of anticholinergic effects, and doxepin and amitriptyline additionally suppress REM sleep. Because the effect on sleep varies sharply by substance, you can look at the effects on the different parameters in the following table:

AntidepressantSleep continuityDeep sleep (SWS)REM sleepOther notes
Tricyclicsimprovedvariablestrongly suppressedlimb movements; worsens apnea; anticholinergic
SSRIs / SNRIsreducedreducedreducedlimb movements; worsens apnea; activating
Bupropionreducedneutralincreasedactivating / unsettling
Trazodoneimprovedimprovedneutral/increasedsedating
Mirtazapineimprovedimprovedneutralsedating (low dose); watch limb movements
Agomelatineimprovedneutralincreasednot sedating; melatonergic/circadian
Source: Psychiatrische Universitätsklinik Zürich (PUK)

Takeaway:
Choose a sedating, continuity-improving agent (trazodone, mirtazapine) when insomnia dominates, and be aware that activating antidepressants (SSRIs/SNRIs, bupropion) can worsen sleep and, in the case of SSRIs/SNRIs and tricyclics, aggravate limb movements and apnea. Please start with the lowest dose and only increase it if it doesn't work.

I personally had good results with trazodone (25mg).

4. Antipsychotics (example: quetiapine)

Low-dose quetiapine (12.5-50mg) generally has a good sleep-inducing and sleep-regulating effect, demonstrable on the sleep EEG. However: the evidence base is thin and problematic side effects are possible (only im higher doses), so it is really indicated only when insomnia is accompanied by psychotic symptoms and not as a routine sleep aid. In my opinion, it doesn't hurt to try it at a very low dose as the side effects are practically non-existent and most docs prescribe it without issue.


5. Gabapentinoids (GABA-A-active substances)

Gabapentin and pregabalin (and gaboxadol) intensify non-REM sleep and are positioned for insomnia that occurs together with pain and anxiety symptoms, where they can address the comorbidity and the sleep problem at once. So instead of taking it at parties (which is absolute cope imo, there are better anxiety meds for that) maybe try low dose pregab at night for bettter sleep.


6. Prolonged-release melatonin (Circadin)

Aimed at patients over about 55. It is not a sedative hypnotic but works on circadian timing. Occasional side effects noted include irritability, nervousness, restlessness, paradoxical insomnia, nightmares, migraine, psychomotor hyperactivity and hyperbilirubinemia. In short: It's shit, don't even bother.


7. Daridorexant (dual orexin-receptor antagonist):chad:

This is the standout “modern” agent and the main advance over older treatment. By blocking the wake-promoting orexin system, it lowers hyperarousal rather than sedating the brain. In a high-quality trial (Mignot et al., Lancet Neurology, 2022), daridorexant 50 mg significantly improved objective measures, latency to persistent sleep and wake-after-sleep-onset, at both one and three months versus placebo.

Why daridorexant is the best: it increases both non-REM and REM sleep and does not distort sleep architecture. It intensifies a normal sleep profile with no daytime sleepiness and only rare side effects (headache, some sleepiness, dizziness). This is the key contrast with benzodiazepines, which buy sleep at the cost of natural architecture and carry hangover and dependence risk!


Inb4 "muhh melatonin": There isn't even the slightest bit of data suggesting that it works for chronic insomnia. It can help with jet-lag but even for that the data is very minimal.
 
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Dnr I love my insomnia
 
  • So Sad
  • JFL
  • Woah
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Dnr I love my insomnia
Bro just typing shit
 
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Did read cool thread
Quviviq otw maybe
 
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Did read cool thread
Quviviq otw maybe
thanks man.
try it out; quviviq is great. if it doesn't work opt for low dose quetiapine or trazodone/mirtazapine imo. monitor your water weight tho.
 
  • +1
Reactions: Thief and buccalfatremoval
melatonin antihistamines and goodnight, dont take benzos for sleep ever unless you have a crippling fear for flying
 
  • +1
Reactions: thecaste
bookmarked will read during my time when i try to fight my insomnia
 
  • Love it
Reactions: thecaste
melatonin antihistamines and goodnight, dont take benzos for sleep ever unless you have a crippling fear for flying
what antihistamines are you taking? when I took sedating antihistamines I suffered from hangovers/tiredness the next day.
but yeah, I agree regarding benzos.
 
  • +1
Reactions: avgsub5human
what antihistamines are you taking? when I took sedating antihistamines I suffered from hangovers/tiredness the next day.
but yeah, I agree regarding benzos.
yeah they can cause that esp if you dont do it daily, I do 50mg promethazine daily which im tryna limit with the help of melatonin eventually
 
  • Woah
Reactions: thecaste
I need this

its 12am I still haven't slept :PepeSmile:
 
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1. Why YOU need this guide

Insomnia is one of the most common sleep disorders. It is defined as persistent difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep despite adequate opportunity to sleep, accompanied by impaired daytime functioning. When these problems occur several times a week for at least three months, the condition is considered chronic. I would guess that insomnia is one of the most common discorders across the .org userbase which only gets aggravated by the chronic overuse of the forum, social media and the use of steroids or meds that can impair sleep/melatonin production (propranolol, ADHD-meds, GLP-1's etc.).

In the short term, insomnia causes fatigue, low or irritable mood and reduced concentration and memory. When it persists untreated, it is linked to lasting cognitive impairment, a higher risk of substance misuse and dependence, increased rates of depression, a poorer quality of life, and greater use of the healthcare system.

But what about the looks department?
Sleep deprivation typically produces a visibly "tired" look, dark circles and puffiness under the eyes, paler or duller skin etc. Studies rating sleep-deprived faces consistently find them judged as less healthy, less attractive, and more fatigued.
Over the longer term, chronic poor sleep affects the skin itself. Sleep is when the body carries out much of its repair, so ongoing deficit is linked to faster skin aging more fine lines and wrinkles, reduced elasticity, a weaker skin barrier, and slower recovery from sun and environmental stress. The complexion tends to look duller and less even. The effects on weight-management, hyperthrophy and hormonal levels (especially cortisol and test) are also dramatic.
Chronic insomnia is therefore best understood as a serious symptom rather than a minor complaint.

Can't I just treat insomnia with CBT and sleep hygiene?
Cognitive behavioural therapy and sleep hygiene (no eating right before sleep, enough exercise throughoit the day, a wind-down routine, no shitposting on .org before sleep etc.) is the cornerstone of treatment, but medication has an important complementary role. Psychotherapy takes time to take effect, requires sustained engagement, and is not always sufficient or readily accessible whereas medication can provide relief comparatively quickly, help in severe or acute cases, and support patients whose insomnia is driven by underlying overarousal. Modern agents in particular can improve sleep while largely preserving its natural structure, making a targeted pharmacological approach a valuable part of care rather than a last resort.

My experience:
I have suffered from insomnia for years. CBT and all the classical sleep hygiene copium methods didn't consistently help me as my sleep anxiety was way too strong. Only the use of actual sleeping meds could produce long lasting results. As far as I know, there isn't a guide on .org that actually systematically explains every existing sleeping med; most sleeping guides only focus on sleep hygiene which is complete water at this point.

So what are the options when it comes to sleeping meds?:feelshah:

2. Benzodiazepines and benzodiazepine analogues (Z-drugs)

They work by boosting GABA (same as alcohol), the brain's main inhibitory signal, which produces four core effects: they reduce anxiety, help sleep, relax muscles, and suppress seizures (brand names are xanax, temesta, valium etc.) They are effective at initiating and maintaining sleep, but there's a well-defined risk profile that limits their long-term use:

- Carryover (“hangover”) effects and accumulation, especially with longer-acting agents

- Muscle relaxation, which raises the risk of nocturnal falls

- Paradoxical reactions (agitation instead of sedation), particularly in the elderly

- Respiratory depression -> dangerous where sleep apnea is present but unrecognised

- Tolerance and dependence with continued use (benzo withdrawal can literally KILL you)

On sleep quality itself, classic benzodiazepines alter the natural architecture and tend to suppress deep (slow-wave) sleep. The newer benzodiazepine-receptor agonists (the “Z-drugs”: zolpidem, zopiclone and zaleplon) are presented as having a comparatively gentler side-effect profile, but the same caution about short-term use applies. My advice: Use it rarely and only for special events such as long-distance flights for example.


3. Sedating antidepressants

They are used at low doses primarily to intensify non-REM (deep) sleep. The preferred agents are mirtazapine, trazodone and agomelatine (and mianserin). A second group, trimipramine, doxepin and amitriptyline, is considered less advisable in older patients because of anticholinergic effects, and doxepin and amitriptyline additionally suppress REM sleep. Because the effect on sleep varies sharply by substance, you can look at the effects on the different parameters in the following table:

AntidepressantSleep continuityDeep sleep (SWS)REM sleepOther notes
Tricyclicsimprovedvariablestrongly suppressedlimb movements; worsens apnea; anticholinergic
SSRIs / SNRIsreducedreducedreducedlimb movements; worsens apnea; activating
Bupropionreducedneutralincreasedactivating / unsettling
Trazodoneimprovedimprovedneutral/increasedsedating
Mirtazapineimprovedimprovedneutralsedating (low dose); watch limb movements
Agomelatineimprovedneutralincreasednot sedating; melatonergic/circadian
Source: Psychiatrische Universitätsklinik Zürich (PUK)

Takeaway:
Choose a sedating, continuity-improving agent (trazodone, mirtazapine) when insomnia dominates, and be aware that activating antidepressants (SSRIs/SNRIs, bupropion) can worsen sleep and, in the case of SSRIs/SNRIs and tricyclics, aggravate limb movements and apnea. Please start with the lowest dose and only increase it if it doesn't work.

I personally had good results with trazodone (25mg).

4. Antipsychotics (example: quetiapine)

Low-dose quetiapine (12.5-50mg) generally has a good sleep-inducing and sleep-regulating effect, demonstrable on the sleep EEG. However: the evidence base is thin and problematic side effects are possible (only im higher doses), so it is really indicated only when insomnia is accompanied by psychotic symptoms and not as a routine sleep aid. In my opinion, it doesn't hurt to try it at a very low dose as the side effects are practically non-existent and most docs prescribe it without issue.


5. Gabapentinoids (GABA-A-active substances)

Gabapentin and pregabalin (and gaboxadol) intensify non-REM sleep and are positioned for insomnia that occurs together with pain and anxiety symptoms, where they can address the comorbidity and the sleep problem at once. So instead of taking it at parties (which is absolute cope imo, there are better anxiety meds for that) maybe try low dose pregab at night for bettter sleep.


6. Prolonged-release melatonin (Circadin)

Aimed at patients over about 55. It is not a sedative hypnotic but works on circadian timing. Occasional side effects noted include irritability, nervousness, restlessness, paradoxical insomnia, nightmares, migraine, psychomotor hyperactivity and hyperbilirubinemia. In short: It's shit, don't even bother.


7. Daridorexant (dual orexin-receptor antagonist):chad:

This is the standout “modern” agent and the main advance over older treatment. By blocking the wake-promoting orexin system, it lowers hyperarousal rather than sedating the brain. In a high-quality trial (Mignot et al., Lancet Neurology, 2022), daridorexant 50 mg significantly improved objective measures, latency to persistent sleep and wake-after-sleep-onset, at both one and three months versus placebo.

Why daridorexant is the best: it increases both non-REM and REM sleep and does not distort sleep architecture. It intensifies a normal sleep profile with no daytime sleepiness and only rare side effects (headache, some sleepiness, dizziness). This is the key contrast with benzodiazepines, which buy sleep at the cost of natural architecture and carry hangover and dependence risk!


Inb4 "muhh melatonin": There isn't even the slightest bit of data suggesting that it works for chronic insomnia. It can help with jet-lag but even for that the data is very minimal.
dnr perc make me sleep
 
yeah they can cause that esp if you dont do it daily, I do 50mg promethazine daily which im tryna limit with the help of melatonin eventually
mirin.
melatonin is pure cope tho. without the promethazine it won't do shit.
 
  • Hmm...
Reactions: avgsub5human
very healthy and sustainable
def
idk it 5 mg barely do anything for me i got high opioid tolerance cause I was on fent drip for like a month straight
 
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Reactions: thecaste
25mg zopiclone fucked me up. i was hallucinating n didnt remember any of my incomprehensible posts the next day. it certainly worked well n i didnt develop any sort of addiction despite prolonged use at diff doses. benzos r far worse
 
Last edited:
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25mg zopiclone fucked me up. i was hallucinating n didnt remember any of my incomprehensible posts the next day. it certainly worked well n i didnt develop any sort of addiction despite prolonged use at diff doses. benzos r far worse
yes, z drugs are definitely better than classic benzos but they still fuck with sleep architecture.
 
  • +1
Reactions: imontheloose
yes, z drugs are definitely better than classic benzos but they still fuck with sleep architecture.
bro u need to see wat i was saying. istg this mustve been wat mohammed was taking
 
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Reactions: thecaste
bump. it's 10 PM in europe. let's go to sleep:Comfy:
 

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