The people who put the most strain on British welfare is not immigrants

[Jason Voorhees]

Plus, it's not even a conversation about the financial benefits, or lack thereof.

It's about what we're willing to sacrifice.

Let's say, ostensibly, that mass migration is propping up the DWP, NHS, and servicing our national debt, it that worth the social capital we're selling down the river?

I can't really measure how it feels that Morris dancers don't come to my area anymore. That was banging when I was a kid.

Anyway, we all know that most fiscal benefits from mass migration accrue to corporations profiting from cheaper labour...

It's clear to me you already have a narrative you want to believe in. No amount of data or economic reality I present will change your mind because you're arguing from emotion not evidence so there's no point. Like I said you can oppose immigration for other reasons on personal level but all your arguments fall apart when you look at them in a broader sense atleast for legal immigrants.

 

[CollioureViews]

I'm gonna hop on universal credit as soon as I turn 18 and LDAR for life

I'll even impregnate a stripper with 6 children for more money

I wish you the best of luck.

Mind the clap.

 

[Hess]

Does having or not having Human rights mean you will be tortured and subject to cruelty? so many regimes in the past have existed and even prospered for both citizenry and rulers alike without having the concept, with or without human rights you would still have these things, its beneficial for a nation to make sure its citizenry is prospering to a degree and will always to some degree have laws and constitutions for said things (magna carte is one such example), my point is that these things arent real and do not change the relationship between citizen and state, and to clarify im not some "Edgelord" that loves human cruelty I just think that these things are not real or beneficial and do not change the relationship between citizen and state. for the most part nations have structured themselves and used rights to benefit their people alone and that will always be the case, human rights being some universal decider of moral good and enforcer of the liberal world against any country or regime that doesnt allign themselves with it fullyis not a good thing to me

to simplify, human rights are not universal moral deciders but are partisan moral orders that serve certain political beliefs, (its their human right to move into our country, this regime does not support human rights we shall intervene now, etc etc)

 

[lnceIs]

Also nothing rly is a "right" in general that is a very modern concept to me that does not make sense, you don't have the right to anything its a social concept that has only been used to topple regimes as a justification of war

Does having or not having Human rights mean you will be tortured and subject to cruelty? so many regimes in the past have existed and even prospered for both citizenry and rulers alike without having the concept, with or without human rights you would still have these things, its beneficial for a nation to make sure its citizenry is prospering to a degree and will always to some degree have laws and constitutions for said things (magna carte is one such example), my point is that these things arent real and do not change the relationship between citizen and state, and to clarify im not some "Edgelord" that loves human cruelty I just think that these things are not real or beneficial and do not change the relationship between citizen and state. for the most part nations have structured themselves and used rights to benefit their people alone and that will always be the case, human rights being some universal decider of moral good and enforcer of the liberal world against any country or regime that doesnt allign themselves with it fullyis not a good thing to me

Those are two completely different talking points.

 

[Cherkez]

to simplify, human rights are not universal moral deciders but are partisan moral orders that serve certain political beliefs, (its their human right to move into our country, this regime does not support human rights we shall intervene now, etc etc)

This is really retarded, you are mixing multiple different world views into one explanation

 

[lnceIs]

to simplify, human rights are not universal moral deciders but are partisan moral orders that serve certain political beliefs, (its their human right to move into our country, this regime does not support human rights we shall intervene now, etc etc)

And where does this contradict OP exactly?

Immigrants pay taxes, pay NHS visa surcharges, and already make up nearly a fifth of the entire NHS workforce. Diseases don't check passports nigga. basic healthcare to a segment of the population is a massive public health risk for everyone, British citizens included.

 

[Hess]

Those are two completely different talking points.

I will admit the first is worded terribly, what would your reply be to my second reply?

 

[CollioureViews]

It's clear to me you already have a narrative you want to believe in. No amount of data or economic reality I present will change your mind because you're arguing from emotion not evidence so there's no point. Like I said you oppose immigration for other reasons on personal level but all your arguments fall apart when you look at them in a broader sense atleast for legal immigrants.

That's what it has to be.

Because you're gonna try to convince me that I shouldn't care about being displaced in the place I grew up. Which is what pointing out issues like the one you noted amounts to (at least your framing i.e., White Brits < Immigrants for Britain's economy).

You're bang on the money; no data will change my mind. And that's because it's an intangible that will never be accounted for in an ONS or budget review.

 

[Hess]

And where does this contradict OP exactly?

He seems to have a belief that if someone rocks up to Britain's shore with zero connection or blood to the people that the government is morally obliged to serve them (Feel free to clarify if this is a misreading of your belief)

 

[CollioureViews]

It's clear to me you already have a narrative you want to believe in. No amount of data or economic reality I present will change your mind because you're arguing from emotion not evidence so there's no point. Like I said you can oppose immigration for other reasons on personal level but all your arguments fall apart when you look at them in a broader sense atleast for legal immigrants.

btw I'm the son of immigrants. No British blood in me.

I just hold the British people in high regard, and I hate seeing my hometown change beyond recognition (which it has).

 

[Jason Voorhees]

That's what it has to be.

Because you're gonna try to convince me that I shouldn't care about being displaced in the place I grew up. Which is what pointing out issues like the one you noted amounts to (at least your framing i.e., White Brits < Immigrants for Britain's economy).

You're bang on the money; no data will change my mind. And that's because it's an intangible that will never be accounted for in an ONS or budget review.

Ok this if fine. You are prioritizing a feeling of cultural continuity over economic or systemic survival. That's a valid stance, emotional but valid.

Also, for the record, I never said "White Brits < Immigrants" for the economy. My point was that the system requires both to function; it's not a zero sum game

 

[Cherkez]

That's what it has to be.

Because you're gonna try to convince me that I shouldn't care about being displaced in the place I grew up. Which is what pointing out issues like the one you noted amounts to (at least your framing i.e., White Brits < Immigrants for Britain's economy).

You're bang on the money; no data will change my mind. And that's because it's an intangible that will never be accounted for in an ONS or budget review.

Your being "displaced" because you like your shitty government and you continuously buy into their narratives, you wouldn't have to bring in all this brown people if the British weren't lazy fuckers and didn't bomb half of asia

 

[CollioureViews]

Ok this if fine. You are prioritizing a feeling of cultural continuity over economic or systemic survival. That's a valid stance, emotional but valid.

Also, for the record, I never said "White Brits < Immigrants" for the economy. My point was that the system requires both to function; it's not a zero sum game

I agree, I'm not one of those who ignore that our welfare system is currently set up as a pyramid scheme. We need it.

However, I don't want a work visa to be a path to citizenship. I don't want enclaves set up.

EDIT: The fact that we're so anti-natal doesn't help things. That's something completely different, though.

 

[CollioureViews]

Your being "displaced" because you like your shitty government and you continuously buy into their narratives, you wouldn't have to bring in all this brown people if the British weren't lazy fuckers and didn't bomb half of asia

?

Not sure where you got that I'm buying into any narratives.

Are the 3 mosques within a mile of my yard a narrative? Before you answer, my dad is muslim.

So what narratives am I buying into? War? Which war? Fought for whose benefit? And I bought into them, how?

EDIT: Biggest groups are, among others, Indians, Nigerians and Romanians. I don't remember bombing them recently. Muh colonialism smd

 

[Cherkez]

?

Not sure where you got that I'm buying into any narratives.

Are the 3 mosques within a mile of my yard a narrative? Before you answer, my dad is muslim.

So what narratives am I buying into? War? Which war? Fought for whose benefit? And I bought into them, how?

Why do you think the 3 mosques were built in your area?
Why do you think your parents came to the UK?
Why do you think muslim migrants come to the UK?
Why are they inherently worse than other migrants like polaks or khokhols?

 

[CollioureViews]

Why do you think the 3 mosques were built in your area?
Why do you think your parents came to the UK?
Why do you think muslim migrants come to the UK?
Why are they inherently worse than other migrants like polaks or khokhols?

I don't think anyone is inherently worse, so long as they're an overwhelming minority and don't set up an enclave and change the fabric of the area.

My parents came here because of war, yeah. I have to live with that contradiction, but it in no way changes my outlook.

 

[Cherkez]

I don't think anyone is inherently worse, so long as they're an overwhelming minority and don't set up an enclave and change the fabric of the area.

My parents came here because of war, yeah. I have to live with that contradiction, but it in no way changes my outlook.

"My parents came here because of war" Yeah whether you like it or not they came to the UK because of geopolitical games, you wanna blame something? blame globalisation and fake narratives pushed by the government, the UK wouldn't have to house iraqi refugees if they didn't back saddam in the 80s, the UK wouldn't have to house syrian refugees if they didn't move against assad in the 2010s, the Uk wouldn't have to house afghans if they didn't back jihadis against the USSR in the 80s. All of these issues come from misrepresenting the de facto situation on the ground and being forced to bite the bullet when someone tries to take advantage of that spread

 

[CollioureViews]

"My parents came here because of war" Yeah whether you like it or not they came to the UK because of geopolitical games, you wanna blame something? blame globalisation and fake narratives pushed by the government, the UK wouldn't have to house iraqi refugees if they didn't back saddam in the 80s, the UK wouldn't have to house syrian refugees if they didn't move against assad in the 2010s, the Uk wouldn't have to house afghans if they didn't back jihadis against the USSR in the 80s. All of these issues come from misrepresenting the de facto situation on the ground and being forced to bite the bullet when someone tries to take advantage of that spread

Those aren't even the biggest immigrant groups, dummy.

Indians led the way for naturalisation. Again, can't remember bombing them lately.

 

[CollioureViews]

"My parents came here because of war" Yeah whether you like it or not they came to the UK because of geopolitical games, you wanna blame something? blame globalisation and fake narratives pushed by the government, the UK wouldn't have to house iraqi refugees if they didn't back saddam in the 80s, the UK wouldn't have to house syrian refugees if they didn't move against assad in the 2010s, the Uk wouldn't have to house afghans if they didn't back jihadis against the USSR in the 80s. All of these issues come from misrepresenting the de facto situation on the ground and being forced to bite the bullet when someone tries to take advantage of that spread

Anyway, I never said the government wasn't my enemy or the enemy of the people.

And the way you talk about the UK and the British people, you sound like my enemy. So I ain't gotta agree with shit you say, because it sounds like you view whatever calamities befall the British people as deserved.

So, with all due respect, you can suck my dick.

EDIT: Knew it, as of your most recent post. You just hate Brits. Dw g, you can admit it. You're my enemy, you're not some voice of reason. Just an enemy.

 

[Cherkez]

Those aren't even the biggest immigrant groups, dummy.

Indians led the way for naturalisation. Again, can't remember bombing them lately.

did the UK not economically harass India through trying to project some sort of soft colonial power post 1947?

Indians aren't even a "problem" immigrant group, they historically integrated much better than other groups

 

[Divineincel]

A Britishcel once told me about this and I found it very interesting

The biggest burden aren't even Immigrants. They make a tiny portion of it which barely matters. The heaviest hitters are actually British single moms.

UK welfare is around £300bn+, with massive chunks on Universal Credit, housing support, child benefits, and disability claims and of all this goes to British single moms. Because the system rewards families that have disabilities. There's something called the PIP/DLA/carer's allowance that pays massive dividends.

Example a typical setup is a family with 3+ kids + one "special needs" claim. This alone ca pull serious cash via UC + extras with housing top-ups in expensive areas and this if for normal families. The way this gets abused is single moms have like a dozen children and claim autism and inability to work due to some disability and get paid like £100K every year. All the while people scape goat Ahmed when his bare minimum welfare that he receives doesn't even cause a dent

there is too much welfare going around for lazy people. I would just abolished any welfare and government should only protect individual rights, build roads, railways, etc

 

[jaaba]

I wrote multiple large paragraphs, but it deleted itself.

Fuck my life