theories and rant

[L13]

Cleaned up with AI for grammar, im high on adderall and was speaking in run-on sentences.
prompt: make minimal changes possible to translate this paragraph into proper grammar
edit i forgot to use ai to clean sorry i usually do

Response to a previous thread, expanded upon
@WonkyChin186


Whether you recognize it or not, when you meet and talk to someone, you are building a mental model of their personality and how they act. If you, like me, think about your own model of people consciously a lot, you can change your unconscious model into a subconscious model.

The way you do this is to start consciously predicting how things are going to go. A lot of people do this when outcome is clearly uncertain and the event is somewhat important, but if you start predicting down from even a simple value or summary of a long/non-trivial social response to even speech patterns on daily and you become better at interacting socially because you have a cheat sheet kind of feel by interacting so much and cataloging so much knowing on peoples personalities. Because you have so much knowledge, you can start getting outcomes that you want from people faster, especially groups of people, knowing which ones will give you the response you are looking for, and when to say nothing.

Your ability to stereotype has massively increased, and if you start brute forcing social interaction (as a sort of testing, I did this with new jokes, new common phrases that I use, new stories, new backstories), all because you control a bunch of variables, through what you say and what you look like, that can give you a likely response of how a person responds, and manipulating said variables into a favored position is easy if you are safe, but you can increase your knowledge. Therefore most times I interact with people who I dont see as useful long term, I just mess around with new ideas and personalities to see if I like their perception better or worse. Typically, online because a lot of what I test is too dangerous to do and could destroy my real life by engaging in taboo thought.

If you understand the world well and see things for how they are, there is no reason that your predictions should be incorrect, its a great self-check tool, prevents you from lying to yourself, which I believe is the most common way people fuck up their own lives.

 

[WonkyChin186]

That's an incredible amount of thought put in

most NTs get the reaction they want naturally just from saying what comes to their mind, since all NTs share the same hivemind to a degree

Even though you've managed to "overcome" seeming ND, the life quality decrease you've had from worse treatment in formative years, and the mental strain it puts on you whenever you speak to anyone is still extremely brutal

If you weren't extremely smart this would be impossible too, you would just never nail it right and still seem ND while still being very strained

 

[L13]

That's an incredible amount of thought put in

most NTs get the reaction they want naturally just from saying what comes to their mind, since all NTs share the same hivemind to a degree

I think NT's are trained like pavlovs dogs. In which, dog is fed red meat and then played a specific sound, the dog does not know why the bell causes the meat to come, but it causes it to come and after u do it enough, they start to salivate when you play the sound before you even present them with the meat (they cannot sense it any other way, smell sight, etc).

Even though you've managed to "overcome" seeming ND, the life quality decrease you've had from worse treatment in formative years, and the mental strain it puts on you whenever you speak to anyone is still extremely brutal

The mental strain is not bad im nto a complainer lol.
Heres what the reality of it is like:
social anxiety - moderate physical, hands sweating, chest and vein feeling, tendency, especially for repetitive things (checking how you smell), to become impulsive about them unless you are controlling yourself.
physical boredom/exhaustion - worst symptom, i cannot control it, I need time in between speaking with people to like compress my thoughts and gather myself, maybe due to faking, before I am at maximum efficiency again

Downstream effects of spending time around NT people:
-conforming to NT people's tastes brings a lot of "little-bad" things. I have to fake that I know anything about music or random stuff that I dont really care about or I will instantly be recognized as weird

-intermixing of groups of people I spend time with are impossible: I have different personalities to conform to each person, but then larger traits I share among a larger group. The larger traits, if changed, are much more easily recognizable to the avg person, and whenever they mix, I hope they dont ask about certain things or they will figure me out.
Example:
Family - Mom, Dad, Grandfather, Grandmother
all share specific variables that I must know together and have a similar personality (even mom and dad, mom and grandfather, each two, each 3 people * as many people as I know) and then i must know how to act in their specific presence and somewhat preplan the conversation in advance. As I either omit or change details to improve people's perception of me
For example, improved how I act since I first met the person, say i met someone in high school, and they have a mental image of me now with things I dont want the other person to know and my new experience has changed me and a person I met in college never saw what I was like before and I want them to keep believing in that to keep my reputation higher. Well, it might be an unlikely scenario but I then have to make decisions about how to unconsciously guide them away from a subject that could bring up something unsavory.

- I have to suppress my autism.
Example: Yes I want to eat the same foods over and over, yes Id rather play videogames and watch anime or you tube or anything else over going outside, there novel and the people who make them can be intelligent or interesting, while most people arnt. And I place such emphasis on novelty in my life I always want to find new things that are big.

If you weren't extremely smart this would be impossible too, you would just never nail it right and still seem ND while still being very strained

Its not something i think people can even mimic doing. I think for most people its probably a built in skill and they have a level to it. I think I started interacting with more diverse people online it made me kind of realize how boring the average person is, especially near where I live and all goody two shoes and pussywhipped by their upbringing and have 0 impulses and crazy risk-averse decision making.

 

[WonkyChin186]

I think NT's are trained like pavlovs dogs. In which, dog is fed red meat and then played a specific sound, the dog does not know why the bell causes the meat to come, but it causes it to come and after u do it enough, they start to salivate when you play the sound before you even present them with the meat (they cannot sense it any other way, smell sight, etc).

The mental strain is not bad im nto a complainer lol.
Heres what the reality of it is like:
social anxiety - moderate physical, hands sweating, chest and vein feeling, tendency, especially for repetitive things (checking how you smell), to become impulsive about them unless you are controlling yourself.
physical boredom/exhaustion - worst symptom, i cannot control it, I need time in between speaking with people to like compress my thoughts and gather myself, maybe due to faking, before I am at maximum efficiency again

Downstream effects of spending time around NT people:
-conforming to NT people's tastes brings a lot of "little-bad" things. I have to fake that I know anything about music or random stuff that I dont really care about or I will instantly be recognized as weird

-intermixing of groups of people I spend time with are impossible: I have different personalities to conform to each person, but then larger traits I share among a larger group. The larger traits, if changed, are much more easily recognizable to the avg person, and whenever they mix, I hope they dont ask about certain things or they will figure me out.
Example:
Family - Mom, Dad, Grandfather, Grandmother
all share specific variables that I must know together and have a similar personality (even mom and dad, mom and grandfather, each two, each 3 people * as many people as I know) and then i must know how to act in their specific presence and somewhat preplan the conversation in advance. As I either omit or change details to improve people's perception of me
For example, improved how I act since I first met the person, say i met someone in high school, and they have a mental image of me now with things I dont want the other person to know and my new experience has changed me and a person I met in college never saw what I was like before and I want them to keep believing in that to keep my reputation higher. Well, it might be an unlikely scenario but I then have to make decisions about how to unconsciously guide them away from a subject that could bring up something unsavory.

- I have to suppress my autism.
Example: Yes I want to eat the same foods over and over, yes Id rather play videogames and watch anime or you tube or anything else over going outside, there novel and the people who make them can be intelligent or interesting, while most people arnt. And I place such emphasis on novelty in my life I always want to find new things that are big.


Its not something i think people can even mimic doing. I think for most people its probably a built in skill and they have a level to it. I think I started interacting with more diverse people online it made me kind of realize how boring the average person is, especially near where I live and all goody two shoes and pussywhipped by their upbringing and have 0 impulses and crazy risk-averse decision making.

more like everyone NT has the same mannerisms and tone and reactions to things because they all share the default "normal" brain, and anything that isn't that is ND

it doesn't matter if your a complainer, it makes your experience of life significantly worse

if you were permanently slightly too cold from now till death, no amount of "getting used to it" would change how awful it is for your average emotion experienced

Have you watched deathnote
or read RI

Nobody NT is mimicking anything to fit in, I literally just say what I want how I want whenever I want irl and the reactions are normal/good and trigger a positive feedback loop that keeps me extraverted because I'm NT

 

[L13]

more like everyone NT has the same mannerisms and tone and reactions to things because they all share the default "normal" brain, and anything that isn't that is ND

I know I have a word for it: word vaping: it means that you say things that are socially acceptable to eachother and then get positive responses from eachother because you signal your ingroup status. I know how to do it and have practiced it. its just boring.

it doesn't matter if your a complainer, it makes your experience of life significantly worse

Its made it much better too. My real self does have some advantages and im moderately acceptable to usually select nt people, but know they could never view me as a best friend or anything because we just do not speak like me and my best friend.

if you were permanently slightly too cold from now till death, no amount of "getting used to it" would change how awful it is for your average emotion experienced

I kind disagree with this, there's a thing called the hedonic treadmill and it refers to the fact that humans have an internalized chemical based happiness level. Something independent from their environment. Both positively, lottery winners, 1 year after winning are only very slightly happier than they were before, and vice versa, a year after becoming paraplegic, most people report only being slightly unhappier in their life, while the difference between reported "baseline" happiness between any two individuals was larger than the same metric of avg lottery winner - average paraplegic.

I believe for psychological things, environment is more about how does it effect your biochemical health (what do you consume and how active are you and what drugs do you take) paired with your brain structure. I believe the general percentage value people place on their mental state being bad by biochemical issues (lifestyle, disease, structure abnormality) is quite undervalued, and trivial events currently taking place "Im stressed over my job" "Im heartbroken" etc are way overplayed as if you are healthy and normal physically, then your brain can accuraltely process these events.

Have you watched deathnote

yuhhh listen its not in a scheming way i just naturally do it and think about it as im doing it.

or read RI

Nobody NT is mimicking anything to fit in, I literally just say what I want how I want whenever I want irl and the reactions are normal/good and trigger a positive feedback loop that keeps me extraverted because I'm NT

Probably better off that me, but still, there is some satisfaction at improving constantly and it kind of makes your life kinda more simple and feel easier and easier, you might be naturally better but if I do put in effort, I always see improvement, and the effort is just thinking about conversations sometimes and talking to ppl online instead of watching smth. (Not on org ofc, mostly on normie apps and places) where I can learn about them and im always trying to discover people who are like me and its pretty fun when we meet

 

[WonkyChin186]

I know I have a word for it: word vaping: it means that you say things that are socially acceptable to eachother and then get positive responses from eachother because you signal your ingroup status. I know how to do it and have practiced it. its just boring.

Its made it much better too. My real self does have some advantages and im moderately acceptable to usually select nt people, but know they could never view me as a best friend or anything because we just do not speak like me and my best friend.

I kind disagree with this, there's a thing called the hedonic treadmill and it refers to the fact that humans have an internalized chemical based happiness level. Something independent from their environment. Both positively, lottery winners, 1 year after winning are only very slightly happier than they were before, and vice versa, a year after becoming paraplegic, most people report only being slightly unhappier in their life, while the difference between reported "baseline" happiness between any two individuals was larger than the same metric of avg lottery winner - average paraplegic.

I believe for psychological things, environment is more about how does it effect your biochemical health (what do you consume and how active are you and what drugs do you take) paired with your brain structure. I believe the general percentage value people place on their mental state being bad by biochemical issues (lifestyle, disease, structure abnormality) is quite undervalued, and trivial events currently taking place "Im stressed over my job" "Im heartbroken" etc are way overplayed as if you are healthy and normal physically, then your brain can accuraltely process these events.

yuhhh listen its not in a scheming way i just naturally do it and think about it as im doing it.

Probably better off that me, but still, there is some satisfaction at improving constantly and it kind of makes your life kinda more simple and feel easier and easier, you might be naturally better but if I do put in effort, I always see improvement, and the effort is just thinking about conversations sometimes and talking to ppl online instead of watching smth. (Not on org ofc, mostly on normie apps and places) where I can learn about them and im always trying to discover people who are like me and its pretty fun when we meet

you don't need to be in the same social group to have the same mind as other NTs tho

it's reported happiness

the average emotion you experience per day is different

the lotto winner def moggs, and even then I'm talking about something that directly impacts your experience of life, being a cripple or a lotto winner is something that changes your feelings to varying degrees, i stated a direct feelings change, and said it was equivalent to being ND masked in social interactions

chemical brain theory was debunked decades ago bro thats why antidepressants are so shat on

smth bad happens like fired from job leads to stress leads to inflammation leads to the body acting like it's normal inflammation leading to the body acting like it has an illness(depressed people and ill people act similarly)

eh? i mean the show deathnote mate, its an anime

 

[L13]

you don't need to be in the same social group to have the same mind as other NTs tho

Every human to some degree is the same, nts have differences just a lot is the same and theres common archetypes of normies that are predictive models for subsections of them

it's reported happiness

You are missing the point that life satisfaction itself, which is what people report in any given moment, is very close. In the equation of feeling fulfillment all the time, it seems like maximizes euphoria over pain is not nearly as important as physical wellbeing. Pain or euphoria gets naturilzied. Its why after you get home from work, turning on the tv feels so refreshing as compared to taking a fake sick day after watching stuff for hours.
Opponent-process theory is the biochemical

the average emotion you experience per day is different

the lotto winner def moggs, and even then I'm talking about something that directly impacts your experience of life, being a cripple or a lotto winner is something that changes your feelings to varying degrees, i stated a direct feelings change, and said it was equivalent to being ND masked in social interactions

chemical brain theory was debunked decades ago bro thats why antidepressants are so shat on

Chemical imbalance theory of depression is different than the updated diathesis-stress model
a reduction list view of how the brain works (if all properties of every physical thing was understood, you can understand consciousness completely). That being said the reason why anything social/mental (that isnt directly impacting your physical well being) could possibly create some type of mental disorder is because you have a pre-existing, pathway that deals with the scenario wrong. Or because you developed that pathway incorrectly.

smth bad happens like fired from job leads to stress leads to inflammation leads to the body acting like it's normal inflammation leading to the body acting like it has an illness(depressed people and ill people act similarly)

The stressor (job loss) is the trigger
and inflammation is the mechanism
but the diathesis is how that inflammatory system is wired.
Two people get fired and both mount a stress response, but whether it crosses into a disorder depends on vulnerabilities like:
How reactive their inflammatory system is?
How well does their cortisol shut inflammation down?
these are traced to genetic, or epigenetic expression causing chemical differences in your body.

eh? i mean the show deathnote mate, its an ani

I watched deathnote by scheming hes always coming up with such elaborate and well thought out in advance plans right. Like to trick L? That never works because you need to predict things in terms of percentages instead of yes nos. You give yourself a gradient of options and the chances u think they may be correct and naturally, there is just this rapid dropoff i n predictability because you just need more factors. So I have an overall direction, but its very vague, while your in the moment is most thought through and as time gets increased, your predictability accuracy approaches 0