This Turkish Jew was a necessary evil

[Baban]

Who? None of them developed the sciences otherwise Europe wouldve been conquered, but you were always catch-up with Europe.

They were mostly Persians. What about Berbers? Cordoba mogged Constantinople nigga.

you have a fixed mindset on history. you think that advances happen through sheer willpower and the (fixed) iq of a group of people, which is not the case. europe was blessed by the new world, the renaissance, martin luther, successful revolutions etc (just as the ummayads and abbasids were blessed with greek texts, a leader who didn't deem them blasphemous, etc). going even deeper, all of them have their own reasons for happening, something like a butterfly effect (if you've read the book outliers you'll know what i'm talking about). look at modern day iran, or look at north africa today. they have their own reasons for being shitholes (outside influence on arab spring, bad leadership, failed revolutions etc) and it'd be unwise to think of them less 200 years from now because they didn't leave anything significant behind.

the same is true for us, just as the romans and byzantines didn't leave any significant accomplishments behind, neither have we. it's not that we didn't try to, it's that there were specific circumstances that didn't allow us to accomplish great things just as some circumstances allowed us to be a giant empire.

do you really think this happened because europe just so happened to be superior and mog the rest of the world?

When ancient Greeks were ripping off ancient Egyptians, Indians and Mesopotamians too. Who cares?

my point is, boasting about addasib or umayyad accomplishments means fuck all when it didn't have much to do about them in the first place. you're trying so hard to paint islam as a religion that endorses science and that's innovative, when the difference in innovation between the ottomans and the abbasids was the lack of the house of wisdom (a higher source of information that's not islam) and many other factors. cordoba didn't mog constantinople, cordoba mogged dark age europe and reneaissance europe mogged the ottomans.

 

[SecularIslamist]

you have a fixed mindset on history. you think that advances happen through sheer willpower and the (fixed) iq of a group of people, which is not the case. europe was blessed by the new world, the renaissance, martin luther, successful revolutions etc (just as the ummayads and abbasids were blessed with greek texts, a leader who didn't deem them blasphemous, etc). going even deeper, all of them have their own reasons for happening, something like a butterfly effect (if you've read the book outliers you'll know what i'm talking about). look at modern day iran, or look at north africa today. they have their own reasons for being shitholes (outside influence on arab spring, bad leadership, failed revolutions etc) and it'd be unwise to think of them less 200 years from now because they didn't leave anything significant behind.

the same is true for us, just as the romans and byzantines didn't leave any significant accomplishments behind, neither have we. it's not that we didn't try to, it's that there were specific circumstances that didn't allow us to accomplish great things just as some circumstances allowed us to be a giant empire.

View attachment 2770028 do you really think this happened because europe just so happened to be superior and mog the rest of the world?


my point is, boasting about addasib or umayyad accomplishments means fuck all when it didn't have much to do about them in the first place. you're trying so hard to paint islam as a religion that endorses science and that's innovative, when the difference in innovation between the ottomans and the abbasids was the lack of the house of wisdom (a higher source of information that's not islam) and many other factors. cordoba didn't mog constantinople, cordoba mogged dark age europe and reneaissance europe mogged the ottomans.

Do you think the Renaissance + scientific revolutions happened randomly?

You like to say Muslims borrowed from Greeks which is true. But don't like to credit Muslims for anything even though at the time they had the most developed civilisation that had ever existed at the time. But whose works do you think Galileo, Copernicus, Newton even Darwin built upon. You think the names of ibn Khaldub, Biruni, Avicenna, Ghazali, Rushd, Khawarizmi etc were unknown to them? You think the only names they knew were Aristotle, Plato, Pythagoras?

Ofc you will these guys were just copy + pasting Greek. I will retort the Greeks built upon Ancient Egyptians, Indians and Mesopotamians. We can keep going all the way back to the first guy who ever started writing.

We know you have an axe to Muslims / Islam and don't want to credit them with anything JFL. Also Constantinople didn't mog in its entire history and was definitely mogged by Cordoba.

"The period of the Caliphate is seen as the golden age of al-Andalus. Córdoba under the Caliphate, with a population of more than half a million, eventually overtook Constantinople as the largest and most prosperous city in Europe.[42] Al-Andalus became a centre for the arts, medicine, science, music, literature and philosophy."

Just admit Turks never contributed to science and learning in anyway on a paradigmatic level in a Kuhnian sense. It's okay , my ancestors were dumb, retarded and backwards too. There's nothing wrong with it.

 

[Baban]

Do you think the Renaissance + scientific revolutions happened randomly?

without the specific set of events preceding it, any act of human willpower and ingenuity wouldn't have created that big of a social change. individual willpower is a very small aspect that contributes to any change of that scale, but the bigger picture is the "randomness". go read outliers.

But don't like to credit Muslims for anything even though at the time they had the most developed civilisation that had ever existed at the time.

I'm not downplaying muslim accomplishments, i'm just saying praising them and islamic history because of this golden age is retarded because it had nothing to do with islam. if europe had access to the same information (sparked the renaissance when they did) you wouldn't praise christianity, and it wouldn't be appropriate to praise christianity because mfers were dumb as apes. true islam promotes an all-or-nothing, wahabbi, understanding of the universe with allah having power over everything. you have hadiths saying you won't get poisoned if you eat dates, that water doesn't get defiled, that whoever cums first the child resembles him, that intense heat is from hellfire, verses that mention how meteors are to hit jinn etc. you're gonna say bla bla school of islam different interpretation etc, but it's how classical scholars like ibn kathir interpreted them, and the sahabah thought things like monkeys commited zina and stoned each other. the same reaoson why ghazali and nawawi denounced philosophizing and labeled ibn sina as kuffar. whatever they accomplished happened in spite of islam, not because of it. of course, it's not that black and white but it's largely true.

Just admit Turks never contributed to science and learning in anyway on a paradigmatic level in a Kuhnian sense.

islam kept us backing and is still keeping us back.

Astronomy was a respected and approved science among the Islamic clergy of the Ottoman Empire, yet the same could not be said with regard to astrology, a field which is considered to be divination and thus against sharia. In order to prevent [the Constantinople observatory's] further use for astrological purposes, they successfully sought the observatory's destruction.[3][dubious – discuss] This happened just as the king of Denmark built an observatory for Tycho Brahe that would pave the way for Kepler's elucidation of the orbits of planets.[4]

do you see what i mean? ottoman history is filled with shit like this, but it's not like we didn't try even then. we had a small golden age during the first years of the republic era, but that didn't last.

my ancestors were dumb, retarded and backwards too

yes and cousin marriage is not becuase of islam but it's pakistani culture am i right? jfl

 

[SecularIslamist]

without the specific set of events preceding it, any act of human willpower and ingenuity wouldn't have created that big of a social change. individual willpower is a very small aspect that contributes to any change of that scale, but the bigger picture is the "randomness". go read outliers.

Yeah it didn't happen out of a vacuum. That's what I'm saying.

I'm not downplaying muslim accomplishments, i'm just saying praising them and islamic history because of this golden age is retarded because it had nothing to do with islam. if europe had access to the same information (sparked the renaissance when they did) you wouldn't praise christianity, and it wouldn't be appropriate to praise christianity because mfers were dumb as apes. true islam promotes an all-or-nothing, wahabbi, understanding of the universe with allah having power over everything. you have hadiths saying you won't get poisoned if you eat dates, that water doesn't get defiled, that whoever cums first the child resembles him, that intense heat is from hellfire, verses that mention how meteors are to hit jinn etc. you're gonna say bla bla school of islam different interpretation etc, but it's how classical scholars like ibn kathir interpreted them, and the sahabah thought things like monkeys commited zina and stoned each other. the same reaoson why ghazali and nawawi denounced philosophizing and labeled ibn sina as kuffar. whatever they accomplished happened in spite of islam, not because of it. of course, it's not that black and white but it's largely true.

islam kept us backing and is still keeping us back.

Nigga Islamic civilisation is the only one that bridged revelation and reason. It was simultaneously both religious and scientific. Yeah Ghazali called ibn sina a kafir for being a mutazilite, well so did the mutazilite takfir others. Ghazali's never denounced 'philosophy' he denounced Aristotelian metaphysics and his criticisms alongside ibn Taymiyyah of logic, weren't rediscovered independently nearly a thousand years later. All of schools whether ashari, Athari or mutazili would takfir each other, but my point is they were religious.

It's ironic you say this, because the same philosophy (Aristotelianism) became embedded with catholicism and then became an impediment to science. The chrsitcucks literally had to throw away "philosophy" and religion to progress science . Your own gay founder thought religion was superstitious and held back science, which is a clear European projection onto the rest of the world. So although you like to think science is in spite of Islam (or any religion) you fail to understand or even acknowledge both flourished simultaneously.

Astronomy was a respected and approved science among the Islamic clergy of the Ottoman Empire, yet the same could not be said with regard to astrology, a field which is considered to be divination and thus against sharia. In order to prevent [the Constantinople observatory's] further use for astrological purposes, they successfully sought the observatory's destruction.[3][dubious – discuss] This happened just as the king of Denmark built an observatory for Tycho Brahe that would pave the way for Kepler's elucidation of the orbits of planets.[4]

do you see what i mean? ottoman history is filled with shit like this, but it's not like we didn't try even then. we had a small golden age during the first years of the republic era, but that didn't last.

Did you read my post above? You guys never had a good grasp of religion anyway. The only thing I admire about the Ottomans is the good they did in protecting Muslims and spreading Islam. Ofc they did retarded stuff, never developed the sciences, they even banned the printing press FFS. I admire Islamic Turks, the mystics but holy fuk they're were so low IQ.

yes and cousin marriage is not becuase of islam but it's pakistani culture am i right? jfl

Yeah, you would be right. Idk why you're being sarcastic.

 

[hirochan]

he was necessary evil because if Turks didn't modernize the Christians were likely going to launch a crusade, considering the state of the ottomans at that time they would've lost Constantinople/Istanbul.

 

[Baban]

So although you like to think science is in spite of Islam (or any religion) you fail to understand or even acknowledge both flourished simultaneously.

again, them flourishing together isn't because of islam. i already showed you how retarded the scientific worldview of islam is.

they're were so low IQ.

nigga we're not disagreeing, i'm just blaming it on islam with evidence.

Yeah, you would be right

you're retarded. only central asian countries don't practice it (exception that proves the rule), and even in turkey it's the kurds that do it.

 

[SecularIslamist]

again, them flourishing together isn't because of islam. i already showed you how retarded the scientific worldview of islam is.

No you didn't. Your gay ottoman scholars were unscientific? Yeah no shit. No wonder they played catch-up when Europe started mogging.They hardly had a grasp on the religion anyway. They were ignorant of science and religion, but still pious if errantly so.

nigga we're not disagreeing, i'm just blaming it on islam with evidence.

Not evidence just Christian projection.

you're retarded. only central asian countries don't practice it (exception that proves the rule), and even in turkey it's the kurds that do it.
View attachment 2772244
View attachment 2772243

Correlation not causation retard. Even India and your own country which is 50% non-practicing is coloured jfl. I'm sure those same countri a do honour killings too. Based.

 

[Baban]

No you didn't.

https://sunnah.com/nasai:197 https://sunnah.com/urn/1002010 https://sunnah.com/abudawud:68 https://sunnah.com/abudawud:67 https://sunnah.com/abudawud:4002 https://sunnah.com/abudawud:4693 https://sunnah.com/muslim:2841 https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:677 https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3199 https://sunnah.com/bukhari:1039 https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5725 https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5717 https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3329 (GABRIEL REVEALED THIS HADITH TO HIM JFLLLLL)

Not evidence just Christian projection.

did we or did we not have religious revolts, different ways of thinking and philosophizing (alevis were small in number but had a huge cultural impact on turkish music etc) that were repressed? did we or did we not have Şeyḫülislām that practically prevented any sort of deviance from their understanding of islam
etc

Even India and your own country which is 50% non-practicing is coloured jfl.

india is the exception that proves the rule, that place is a shithole in every area idk what you're proving here, turkey is kurds

 

[SecularIslamist]

https://sunnah.com/nasai:197 https://sunnah.com/urn/1002010 https://sunnah.com/abudawud:68 https://sunnah.com/abudawud:67 https://sunnah.com/abudawud:4002 https://sunnah.com/abudawud:4693 https://sunnah.com/muslim:2841 https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah:677 https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3199 https://sunnah.com/bukhari:1039 https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5725 https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5717 https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3329 (GABRIEL REVEALED THIS HADITH TO HIM JFLLLLL)

Who said hadiths were books of science? Muslims use reason, reason is in harmony with revelation - even in Taymiyyah agrees.

Hadiths are mainly for laws.

did we or did we not have religious revolts, different ways of thinking and philosophizing (alevis were small in number but had a huge cultural impact on turkish music etc) that were repressed? did we or did we not have Şeyḫülislām that practically prevented any sort of deviance from their understanding of islam
etc

Nigga I've already told you, you niggas were dumb. Ignorant in religion and science. You conception of science vs religion is predicated on secular rationalism.

This science is deviant in its own thoughts which is why I mentioned Kuhn and Feyrabend who you probably have no idea who they are - you might not realise it's closer to religion than you think.

india is the exception that proves the rule, that place is a shithole in every area idk what you're proving here, turkey is kurds
View attachment 2772305

Those central anatolians are traf and giga Muslims. The same kind you hate.

Even Lebanese, Iraqi and Egyptians Christians marry cousins. And Yezidis. Also west African christcucks. It precedes Islam. Gigaretarded.

 

[Baban]

Who said hadiths were books of science?

are you braindead my boy? the same angel who brings muhammad revelation mentions that the offspring resembles whichever parent orgasms first. they're not books of science, they're the teachings of islam. anything that contradicts it is not in the realm of islam.

Ignorant in religion and science.

my boy ur sahabah literally thinks that monkeys commit zina and stone each other jfl

It precedes Islam

doesn't mean that islam doesn't condone it, in fact it encourages it as it's sunnah. my claims aren't that people didn't practice it before, my claims are islam propagates it.

 

[SecularIslamist]

are you braindead my boy? the same angel who brings muhammad revelation mentions that the offspring resembles whichever parent orgasms first. they're not books of science, they're the teachings of islam. anything that contradicts it is not in the realm of islam.

Yes anything that contradicts Islam is also against science. Revelation cannot contradict reason, because it is because of revalation we have reason. That revelation is true, apparently or literally.

my boy ur sahabah literally thinks that monkeys commit zina and stone each other jfl

A pre-Islamic hadith, rejected by al-Albani even. I've already told you nigga even the most conservative scholar Hanbali rejected 85-90% of hadiths.

doesn't mean that islam doesn't condone it, in fact it encourages it as it's sunnah. my claims aren't that people didn't practice it before, my claims are islam propagates it.

How is it sunnah? It prohibits first cousin marriage. I already mentioned to you there were fucking villages with maybe 200 people since world population was 95% less, and they didn't exactly have tinder and telecommunications back in the day.

If marry my second cousin too, if she was hot.

 

[Deleted member 46979]

the christians are the only good things about turgay. also, half the jews in the world weren't jews, they're just connivers who recognize that the jewish label afforded them greater access to resources and opportunities, and it stuck in the historical records. same reason everyone and their grandmother called themselves a free mason

 

[Baban]

Yes anything that contradicts Islam is also against science.

so your child resembles you if you orgasm first and resembles ur wife if she orgasms (and releases a liquid that apparently plays a part in fertilization) first? jfl

al-Albani

yes he was high iq illyrian. the hadith's in bukhari jfl, rejecting that means it's over for hadithcels. but bro solomon literally talked with animals, hadiths mention a FUCKING STONE running away with moses' clothes, and muhammad HAD FUCKING TREES talking to him JFL AND YOU DENY THIS? HAHAHAHAHAHAH JFL

Sahih al-Bukhari 278 - Bathing (Ghusl) - كتاب الغسل - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

Sahih al-Bukhari 3584 - Virtues and Merits of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions - كتاب المناقب - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

How is it sunnah

muhammad cucked his own stepson to marry zainab (his cousin)

 

[SecularIslamist]

so your child resembles you if you orgasm first and resembles ur wife if she orgasms (and releases a liquid that apparently plays a part in fertilization) first? jfl

Makes sense I look like my mom. That's why my morph is so sexy.

yes he was high iq illyrian. the hadith's in bukhari jfl, rejecting that means it's over for hadithcels. but bro solomon literally talked with animals, hadiths mention a FUCKING STONE running away with moses' clothes, and muhammad HAD FUCKING TREES talking to him JFL AND YOU DENY THIS? HAHAHAHAHAHAH JFL

Sahih al-Bukhari 278 - Bathing (Ghusl) - كتاب الغسل - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

Sahih al-Bukhari 3584 - Virtues and Merits of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions - كتاب المناقب - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic

sunnah.com

muhammad cucked his own stepson to marry zainab (his cousin)

There is a small chance I deny any authentic sahih hadiths. Yes I believe the prophet went to Jerusalem on a winged horse. Idc if it's supposed to be metaphorical or literal - I believe in whatever is the case, and if it's the latter I believe it 100%> Ofc you think this is just fairy tales, exactly what the jahili pagans thought as well, think their senses and reason was above revelation. JFL. Only a brute retard applies science to religion.

 

[Baban]

Only a brute retard applies science to religion.

Yes anything that contradicts Islam is also against science.

HAHAHAHAHAH do we apply science to religion or not nigga? jfl

Makes sense I look like my mom.

literally no arguments made against that hadith lmao. over for your tree speaking, stone stealing, monkey stoning, winged-worse flying ass jfl

 

[Baban]

also, half the jews in the world weren't jews, they're just connivers who recognize that the jewish label afforded them greater access to resources and opportunities, and it stuck in the historical records. same reason everyone and their grandmother called themselves a free mason

can i hab source for this? really interesting

 

[deadmanwalking]

This thread is such a circle jerk jfl LDAR already neither Islam or Christianity will save your country or inceldom

God is chad-only if you didn’t notice already

I still believe in god but I don’t have a sense of idol worshipping it’s already over my friends