Thoughts on Invisalign to widen the mouth/palate?

[NoPainNoChick]

BEFORE AND AFTER: HOW INVISALIGN CREATED FULLER LIPS AND A STRONGER JAWLINE — Lemchen Salzer Orthodontics | Best Orthodontist NYC

Patient Evaluation This patient requested fuller lips and she wanted to create a more symmetrical and aligned look that would allow her cheekbones to appear more prominent and her jaw line to be more pronounced. Treatment This patient wore Invisalign for about a year. She took her treatment plan

lsortho.com

Pretty insane results without involving surgery. It gaves so much more support to her lips.

Invisalign is not talken about much on this forum. Is it cope? Gonna email a bunch of orthodontists.

 

[rubybrrr]

Not cope. Gonna get it to widen smile.

 

[Deleted member 17429]

Doing it rightnow during puberty
Lower third is taller and face wider with my retainers in then without. I love jewthodontists

 

[wollet2]

how her short face syndrome got fixed

 

[Deleted member 5892]

Already had it done. Made my mouth wider by around 3mm and I have Chico tier lip seal now

 

[ErbCel]

Already had it done. Made my mouth wider by around 3mm and I have Chico tier lip seal now

3mm overall or each side?

 

[Deleted member 5892]

3mm overall or each side?

Overall, but trust me 3mm makes a huge visible difference. And I made sure to measure my mouth width during the whole treatment
My mouth wasn't very narrow to begin with, but it still lacked some width and support.

 

[Deleted member 18840]

Overall, but trust me 3mm makes a huge visible difference. And I made sure to measure my mouth width during the whole treatment
My mouth wasn't very narrow to begin with, but it still lacked some width and support.

Can you get invisalign if your teeth are perfect?

 

[Deleted member 5892]

Can you get invisalign if your teeth are perfect?

tbh i dont think so, my teeth were crooked. Ask an ortho to make sure

 

[ErbCel]

Overall, but trust me 3mm makes a huge visible difference. And I made sure to measure my mouth width during the whole treatment
My mouth wasn't very narrow to begin with, but it still lacked some width and support.

How many more teeth did you gain in your smile?
I mean exactly how many more teeth show in your upper teeth after invisalign?

 

[Deleted member 5892]

How many more teeth did you gain in your smile?
I mean exactly how many more teeth show in your upper teeth after invisalign?

2 more teeth, molars (1 tooth per side)
I gained 8mm total in terms of upper palate width (4mm each side)
I dont have any buccal corridors

 

[Deleted member 17429]

2 more teeth, molars (1 tooth per side)
I gained 8mm total in terms of upper palate width (4mm each side)
I dont have any buccal corridors

Did u mew during this time period?

 

[Deleted member 5892]

Did u mew during this time period?

yea

 

[Deleted member 2729]

yea

Can bimax have the same effect?

 

[Deleted member 5892]

Can bimax have the same effect?

idk but im having bimax in a few weeks so I will be able to answer that question in a few

 

[Deleted member 10800]

I'm going to get them soon my dentist told me to avoid it before because I have 1 baby tooth which would have to be removed to do it. My parents didn't bother getting me braces because my teeth were "good enough" wish I was american where you get braces if your tooth is a milimetre out of place.

 

[Deleted member 2729]

idk but im having bimax in a few weeks so I will be able to answer that question in a few

tagg me then

 

[agoostis]

does this reduce hollow cheek appearance?

 

[OldRooster]

invisilign isn't going to widen the palate of an adult.

 

[raystar66]

i dont get how her lips changed tho?

 

[MrRubiks]

how her short face syndrome got fixed

Girls don't really have SFS.

 

[Biiyo03]

T

idk but im having bimax in a few weeks so I will be able to answer that question in a few

Tag me bro

 

[ChristianChad]

Overall, but trust me 3mm makes a huge visible difference. And I made sure to measure my mouth width during the whole treatment
My mouth wasn't very narrow to begin with, but it still lacked some width and support.

I don't understand how it widens your mouth

@RealSurgerymax @Acromegaly_Chad @LooksOverAll @NegativeNorwood

 

[ChristianChad]

tbh i dont think so, my teeth were crooked. Ask an ortho to make sure

Huh maybe when you are young getting the teeth into palate with Invisalign forces to make the palate larger? It must be different than braces then if that's the case because braces would just make your forward teeth tilt forward to make space. Orthos avoid that by at some point just extracting your premolars and making space that way, this is why Orthodontics are a scam when it comes to treating skeletal issues like a narrow palate, unless you are young (6-13) then you can use a tooth borne expander or a bone-tooth borne expander like MSE/MARPE in that case Orthodontics are actually useful for aesthetics and craniofacial health and not just rape you.
How old were you when you had Invisilign treatment?

 

[ChristianChad]

invisilign isn't going to widen the palate of an adult.

Well said


Regarding the case posted above absolute lol @ the replies on this thread regarding it. Nothing changed. I did notice they made her front upper teeth tilt forward, not good for dental health or anything at all, but it had slight soft tissue effect. I read this a trend in Invisalign treatment that it just makes you front teeth tilt forward.
So they put her teeth in a less healthy position lol, what a scam...

 

[BugeyeBigNoseCurry]

View attachment 1782767

BEFORE AND AFTER: HOW INVISALIGN CREATED FULLER LIPS AND A STRONGER JAWLINE — Lemchen Salzer Orthodontics | Best Orthodontist NYC

Patient Evaluation This patient requested fuller lips and she wanted to create a more symmetrical and aligned look that would allow her cheekbones to appear more prominent and her jaw line to be more pronounced. Treatment This patient wore Invisalign for about a year. She took her treatment plan

lsortho.com

Pretty insane results without involving surgery. It gaves so much more support to her lips.

Invisalign is not talken about much on this forum. Is it cope? Gonna email a bunch of orthodontists.

Braces can do th same thing

 

[wollet2]

Girls don't really have SFS.

elab

 

[MrRubiks]

elab

As a rule, girls have more leeway when it comes to facial features. For a man, you want a chin/philtrum ratio of at least 2, no scleral show, and no UEE. Women can violate all of these (or not) and it wouldn't hurt their attractiveness whatsoever.

 

[RealSurgerymax]

Bad idea, Widen palate skeletally as an adult with a MARPE

 

[lasthope]

Overall, but trust me 3mm makes a huge visible difference. And I made sure to measure my mouth width during the whole treatment
My mouth wasn't very narrow to begin with, but it still lacked some width and support.

Did you said your ortho that you want a wider smile?

 

[lasthope]

idk but im having bimax in a few weeks so I will be able to answer that question in a few

Which movements? Health or aesthetics reasons?

 

[lasthope]

Bad idea, Widen palate skeletally as an adult with a MARPE

Why it’s a bad idea?

 

[lasthope]

Well said


Regarding the case posted above absolute lol @ the replies on this thread regarding it. Nothing changed. I did notice they made her front upper teeth tilt forward, not good for dental health or anything at all, but it had slight soft tissue effect. I read this a trend in Invisalign treatment that it just makes you front teeth tilt forward.
So they put her teeth in a less healthy position lol, what a scam...

Why is putting front upper teeth tilt forward less healthy?

 

[Sal]

it’s not cope. I know two people I’ll who’ve gotten it and it widened theirs.

I’m getting mine this year.

 

[RecessedChinCel]

Why is putting front upper teeth tilt forward less healthy?

He’s coping this foid obviously had a good improvement. Also upper teeth should naturally slightly tip out (especially if you’re ethnic)

 

[lasthope]

He’s coping this foid obviously had a good improvement. Also upper teeth should naturally slightly tip out (especially if you’re ethnic)

Yeah normally it’s considered good to have teeth slighty tip out

 

[Deleted member 5892]

Which movements? Health or aesthetics reasons?

Both. Bsso to fix an overbite + genio
Bsso arund 12mm + 5mm genio. Maxilla will obly be ccw rotated, no advancement (i want to redesign my maxilla with implants fpr aesthetic concerns)

 

[Deleted member 5892]

invisilign isn't going to widen the palate of an adult.

I don't understand how it widens your mouth

@RealSurgerymax @Acromegaly_Chad @LooksOverAll @NegativeNorwood

Invisalign widened my mouth bc my palate was nartow bc of an alveolar issue . Invisalign reshapes the alveolar structute. Although some ppl will need surgery like mse

 

[Deleted member 5892]

Huh maybe when you are young getting the teeth into palate with Invisalign forces to make the palate larger? It must be different than braces then if that's the case because braces would just make your forward teeth tilt forward to make space. Orthos avoid that by at some point just extracting your premolars and making space that way, this is why Orthodontics are a scam when it comes to treating skeletal issues like a narrow palate, unless you are young (6-13) then you can use a tooth borne expander or a bone-tooth borne expander like MSE/MARPE in that case Orthodontics are actually useful for aesthetics and craniofacial health and not just rape you.
How old were you when you had Invisilign treatment?

I was 19

 

[randomvanish]

it’s not cope. I know two people I’ll who’ve gotten it and it widened theirs.

I’m getting mine this year.

with sarpe?

 

[Sal]

with sarpe?

Invisalign bro

 

[randomvanish]

Invisalign bro

how many months they wore it?

 

[Deleted member 15698]

Overall, but trust me 3mm makes a huge visible difference. And I made sure to measure my mouth width during the whole treatment
My mouth wasn't very narrow to begin with, but it still lacked some width and support.

How old are you? And when you say mouth, you mean lips with resting expression?

 

[Sal]

how many months they wore it?

About 1 year. With mewing

 

[lasthope]

About 1 year. With mewing

Do you need to wear a retainer?

 

[Deleted member 5892]

How old are you? And when you say mouth, you mean lips with resting expression?

yeah exactly. And im 20

 

[BugeyeBigNoseCurry]

w

Braces can do th same thing

stop jfling mew cels you can widen the palate with braces

 

[NegativeNorwood]

Bad idea, Widen palate skeletally as an adult with a MARPE

Can you please explain why is it a bad idea?
I've recently seen some very impressive results with self ligating braces. This study claims 9mm posterior width increase and shows this before and after picture.

Ormco Damon™ System provides full arch development | Ormco

Read the research done to study how Damon System treatment achieves arch width expansion without the need for Rapid Palatal Expanders or surgery.

ormco.com

Why is it bad idea compared to a ie SARPE with custom device like the Power Expander for an adult?

 

[ChristianChad]

Can you please explain why is it a bad idea?
I've recently seen some very impressive results with self ligating braces. This study claims 9mm posterior width increase and shows this before and after picture.

Ormco Damon™ System provides full arch development | Ormco

Read the research done to study how Damon System treatment achieves arch width expansion without the need for Rapid Palatal Expanders or surgery.

ormco.com

View attachment 1909876

Why is it bad idea compared to a ie SARPE with custom device like the Power Expander for an adult?

This is cope for you because you are not young, female or have crowding.

Besides, I have found that treatments which have alevolar expansion often look unaesthetic, this is probably because the teeth are pushed out of the alevolar bone and are more exposed and they look less healthy (for example Ronald Ead/Jaw Hacks, who did stuff like AGGA, MSE which has a lot of alevolar expansion).
You want pure skeletal expansion results, son.

Because you're not doing EASE, maybe this would be good;

_SARPE surgery + Pterygomaxillary Disjunction / addressing the Pterygomaxillary suture somehow
_Expansion done with Power Expander device, but the protocol should be done as such as that the expansion is done normally at first, but then removing the arms of the device and doing the majority rest of the expansion with the same device but without it connecting to to the teeth / armless Power Expander. If all goes well the rest of the expansion done with the armless device would be purely skeletal.


3 things though:

Starting expansion with arms and then clipping them off is something sometimes done with MSE IIRC, so this shouldn't be too far-fetched.

Pterygomaxillary Disjunction needs to be done in a hospital as far as I know because of the bleeding risk. But I don't know what techniques exist to address those Pterygomaxillary / ??? points usually, maybe there are many possible ways to address weakening those points, I don't know tbh.

Discuss it with your treatment provider first if this expansion protocol is possible for your case (if your bone that the Mini-screws of the Power Expander device are attached to are not too thin/??? etc...) and how it's best to approach this treatment if that expansion protocol is possible for you, for example what would be the best device placement, device design if he custom designs it as you said; for example you would probably want the design to have more Miniscrews then usual, a large numbers of TADs are probably unnecessary, etc....


@Silver @Mr.Proper Thoughts?

 

[NegativeNorwood]

This is cope for you because you are not young, female or have crowding.

This is so true jfl, legit sub zero IQ moment by me at not taking this into account lmao. Just was excited when reading the study and asked .

Besides, I have found that treatments which have alevolar expansion often look unaesthetic, this is probably because the teeth are pushed out of the alevolar bone and are more exposed and they look less healthy (for example Ronald Ead/Jaw Hacks, who did stuff like AGGA, MSE which has a lot of alevolar expansion).
You want pure skeletal expansion results, son.

Because you're not doing EASE, maybe this would be good;

_SARPE surgery + Pterygomaxillary Disjunction / addressing the Pterygomaxillary suture somehow
_Expansion done with Power Expander device, but the protocol should be done as such as that the expansion is done normally at first, but then removing the arms of the device and doing the majority rest of the expansion with the same device but without it connecting to to the teeth / armless Power Expander. If all goes well the rest of the expansion done with the armless device would be purely skeletal.


3 things though:

Starting expansion with arms and then clipping them off is something sometimes done with MSE IIRC, so this shouldn't be too far-fetched.

Pterygomaxillary Disjunction needs to be done in a hospital as far as I know because of the bleeding risk. But I don't know what techniques exist to address those Pterygomaxillary / ??? points usually, maybe there are many possible ways to address weakening those points, I don't know tbh.

Discuss it with your treatment provider first if this expansion protocol is possible for your case (if your bone that the Mini-screws of the Power Expander device are attached to are not too thin/??? etc...) and how it's best to approach this treatment if that expansion protocol is possible for you, for example what would be the best device placement, device design if he custom designs it as you said; for example you would probably want the design to have more Miniscrews then usual, a large numbers of TADs are probably unnecessary, etc....


@Silver @Mr.Proper Thoughts?

I know that SARPE with surgical assist and the Power Expander should be very best option for an adult that wants not just a wider smile, but a posteriorly wider smile, like the ones that Mila Kunis or Rodrigo Guirao have. Don't know much else tbh, must ask the specific details once I go to consult an expert like Varela.