Thoughts on Invisalign to widen the mouth/palate?

[ChristianChad]

Btw, I searched literature in regards to SARPE with or without PMD (Pterygomaxillary Disjunction) and I consistently found that the effectiveness is inconclusive / it's irrelevant if you do PMD or not. So I'm not sure if PMD is necessary or not.

This is unsubstituted and not based on any literature but my theory is that it DOES matter and influences expansion pattern, but moreso if you do a big expansion, maybe I'm wrong.
I also think it should matter in this case because the device would be purely expanding with the support of the Miniscrews after the arms are removed, and in my head it makes sense to eliminate every resistance point, although maybe the initial expansion with the arms attached weakens those PM sutures enough it doesn't matter if you surgically address them or not.

 

[NegativeNorwood]

Btw, I searched literature in regards to SARPE with or without PMD and I consistently found that the effectiveness is inconclusive / it's irrelevant if you do PMD or not. So I'm not sure if PMD is necessary or not.

This is unsubstituted and not based on any literature but my theory is that it DOES matter and influences expansion pattern, but moreso if you do a big expansion, maybe I'm wrong.
I also think it should matter in this case because the device would be purely expanding with the support of the Miniscrews after the arms are removed, and in my head it makes sense to eliminate every resistance point, although maybe the initial expansion with the arms attached weakens those PM sutures enough it doesn't matter if you surgically address them or not.

AFAIK and because of reading it wrote by Sergio, any kind of palate expansion (MSE, EASE, SARPE, etc) without surgical assist in people over 16 years old is a waste of time. And the expansion pattern is because of the device used, something like the Power Expander is much more powerful and can expand evenly vs the cone shaped, mostly anterior expansion of the more conventional, less powerful expanders.

Even if they use the same surgical cuts to assist either device, you can clearly see that the one on the right is way, way more powerful. That's what gives the coveted 12 tooth smile thanks to even expansion AFAIK.
Left, someone who had SARPE with surgical assist but the normal RPE expander. Mila Kunis on the right:

Starking difference, Mila's smile is much wider posteriorly and looks so much fuller. The Power expander should be able to give a smile like Mila's due to the even expansion AFAIK.

 

[ChristianChad]

I know that SARPE with surgical assist and the Power Expander should be very best option for an adult that wants not just a wider smile, but a posteriorly wider smile, like the ones that Mila Kunis or Rodrigo Guirao have.

I don't understand why this would be the case though. It would be very similar to SARPE, which has an anterior-heavy expansion pattern.


Generally I thought it doesn't really matter what device you use for SARPE, whether it be an RPE or MARPE, because there are no resistance points. But a MARPE would probably be the better choice if possible because it is able to produce stronger forces and it could probably produce more consistent / symmetrical / ? results.
But still, I don't understand how it would change the expansion pattern from being anterior-heavy to more equal between the ANS and PNS.


In-general, best would probably be treatment similar to what Kasey-Li developed, because he developed EASE to specifically achieve more Posterior Expansion because he theorised it would provide better breathing benefits to people with Sleep Apnea.

 

[NegativeNorwood]

I don't understand why this would be the case though. It would be very similar to SARPE, which has an anterior-heavy expansion pattern.


Generally I thought it doesn't really matter what device you use for SARPE, whether it be an RPE or MARPE, because there are no resistance points. But a MARPE would probably be the better choice if possible because it is able to produce stronger forces and it could probably produce more consistent / symmetrical / ? results.
But still, I don't understand how it would change the expansion pattern from being anterior-heavy to more equal between the ANS and PNS.


In-general, best would probably be treatment similar to what Kasey-Li developed, because he developed EASE to specifically achieve more Posterior Expansion because he theorised it would provide better breathing benefits to people with Sleep Apnea.

Don’t mew if you plan on getting MSE

Disclaimer: I am not an orthotropics expert. Take this post with a grain of salt. Why shouldn’t you mew if you’re going to get MSE in the future? Mewing expands the palate by pushing the teeth farther apart, but it doesn’t expand the bone of the maxilla. On the contrary, MSE expands the lower...

looksmax.org

"SMARPE/SARME/SARPE/DOME/EASE (to me the difference between these last are insignificant, so I put them in the same batch)"

The device used is hugely important, Kasey Li uses a KLM Martin TPD instead of the RPE because it is much more powerful. IIRC, the Power Expander is even more powerful than the TPD.



He got 16mm anterior expansion and 15.7mm posterior expansion with the Power Expander. Meanwhile, the RPE:

Barely expanded posteriorly in comparison.

 

[ChristianChad]

Don’t mew if you plan on getting MSE

Disclaimer: I am not an orthotropics expert. Take this post with a grain of salt. Why shouldn’t you mew if you’re going to get MSE in the future? Mewing expands the palate by pushing the teeth farther apart, but it doesn’t expand the bone of the maxilla. On the contrary, MSE expands the lower...

looksmax.org

"SMARPE/SARME/SARPE/DOME/EASE (to me the difference between these last are insignificant, so I put them in the same batch)"

The device used is hugely important, Kasey Li uses a KLM Martin TPD instead of the RPE because it is much more powerful. IIRC, the Power Expander is even more powerful than the TPD.



He got 16mm anterior expansion and 15.7mm posterior expansion with the Power Expander. Meanwhile, the RPE:

Barely expanded posteriorly in comparison.

This was the part they should have shown to be able to view the expansion pattern clearly.



I wonder...

What a Cohencidence...! Very cheap tricks Dr. Juan Carlos also known as Chaim Shlomo Perez ...

 

[NegativeNorwood]

I wonder...
View attachment 1911393
View attachment 1911395

What a Cohencidence... Very cheap tricks Dr. Juan Carlos also known as Chaim Shlomo Perez ...

Caged at Chaim Shlomo Perez

 

[Luis]

Don’t mew if you plan on getting MSE

Disclaimer: I am not an orthotropics expert. Take this post with a grain of salt. Why shouldn’t you mew if you’re going to get MSE in the future? Mewing expands the palate by pushing the teeth farther apart, but it doesn’t expand the bone of the maxilla. On the contrary, MSE expands the lower...

looksmax.org

"SMARPE/SARME/SARPE/DOME/EASE (to me the difference between these last are insignificant, so I put them in the same batch)"

The device used is hugely important, Kasey Li uses a KLM Martin TPD instead of the RPE because it is much more powerful. IIRC, the Power Expander is even more powerful than the TPD.



He got 16mm anterior expansion and 15.7mm posterior expansion with the Power Expander. Meanwhile, the RPE:

Barely expanded posteriorly in comparison.

this looks like a good result in an adult. im looking to do something like this. is this EASE? Im considering that as Im a 27r old man and MSE would be innapropriate (only children normally).

 

[NegativeNorwood]

this looks like a good result in an adult. im looking to do something like this. is this EASE? Im considering that as Im a 27r old man and MSE would be innapropriate (only children normally).

Don't know, probably SARPE because it is the most common and most predictable on adults AFAIK

 

[3arsa]

2 more teeth, molars (1 tooth per side)
I gained 8mm total in terms of upper palate width (4mm each side)
I dont have any buccal corridors

did you ask the ortho that you want lateral expansion or he just did it?