TOOTH EXTRACTIONS : WHY YOU SHOULD AVOID THEM PRESENTED WITH DATA

[loyolaxavvierretard]

LOL u challanged fcking mild malloclusion idgaf abt that

Now you dont care about moderate occlusion. Entire thread you are dancing around "we were talking something useful". Cagefuel absolute cagefuel. Now that you are proven wrong you are calling me a brokie. Now suddenly when all your arguments are shit you "dont care about malocclusion". Nice deflextion bro. Keep bumping

 

[geneticdiff]

Now you dont care about moderate occlusion. Entire thread you are dancing around "we were talking something useful". Cagefuel absolute cagefuel. Now that you are proven wrong you are calling me a brokie. Now suddenly when all your arguments are shit you "dont care about malocclusion". Nice deflextion bro. Keep bumping

yes i'll keep bumping ur useless thread that nobody gives a fck about, glad i could give you a few extra reps to give your pathetic life an ounce more of meaning, gz amazing 12 hr shift of work for the 50 reps on .org, goodlife bro

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

yes i'll keep bumping ur useless thread that nobody gives a fck about, glad i could give you a few extra reps to give your pathetic life an ounce more of meaning, gz amazing 12 hr shift of work for the 50 reps on .org, goodlife bro

Didnt read the post, argues about something I already mentioned in the post itself, gets caught, tries to say nonsense but again proven wrong. Now finally I dont care about moderate and mild bro nah bro couldnt care. And finally after running out of arguments you are insulting me. Good to eviscerate a nigger

 

[geneticdiff]

Didnt read the post, argues about something I already mentioned in the post itself, gets caught, tries to say nonsense but again proven wrong. Now finally I dont care about moderate and mild bro nah bro couldnt care. And finally after running out of arguments you are insulting me. Good to eviscerate a nigger

ur right bro just didn't know we are writing 8000 word threads about something everyone already knows, good thread tho bro enjoy the 20 pity reps for spreading general knowledge

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

ur right bro just didn't know we are writing 8000 word threads about something everyone already knows, good thread tho bro enjoy the 20 pity reps for spreading general knowledge

Now after having being eviscerated properly and burnt, now you think everyone knows this shit. Then why the fuck did you comment nigger, were dicks up your nose ? Everybody knows but you were out of context this entire thread and outright posting anecdotes

 

[juju06]

Wrong section, mods should move to looksmaxxing.



From outside perspective, America really had/has a weird preference for some procedures.
Teeth extractions, circumcision, no-second-thought adenoid, tonsils and appendix removal...

I wonder why....

 

[geneticdiff]

Now after having being eviscerated properly and burnt, now you think everyone knows this shit. Then why the fuck did you comment nigger, were dicks up your nose ? Everybody knows but you were out of context this entire thread and outright posting anecdotes

ye bro u eviscerated me about something i didn't know i was arguing about, put that on your wall of achievements, top 3 things you've achieved in ur life, post more general knowledge im sure ppl find it useful to read when half the thread is DNR posts

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

ye bro u eviscerated me about something i didn't know i was arguing about, put that on your wall of achievements, top 3 things you've achieved in ur life, post more general knowledge im sure ppl find it useful to read when half the thread is DNR posts

Half the thread is talking about extractions. The other half is you being a low IQ nigger. I will forget about this tomorrow because no one remembers low IQ niggers who cant read and cant cite and only know anecdotes.

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

I wonder why....

Because they become "standard practice". After that happens it is really tough to change that

 

[geneticdiff]

Half the thread is talking about extractions. The other half is you being a low IQ nigger. I will forget about this tomorrow because no one remembers low IQ niggers who cant read and cant cite and only know anecdotes.

i've forgotten abt it 3 times thru alr but ur shtty posts keep triggering my noti so i have to come back, dni w me go farm ur reps niggha gl in life

 

[Snicket]

TLDR : TOOTH EXTRACTIONS SHOULD BE AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS

INTRODUCTION
​

View attachment 3655011

• There are multiple accounts of tooth extractions ruining the face i.e. they "flatten the profile" or the face seems "retracted" or it leads to recessed jaws.
• However there has been a great debate within the orthodontic community regarding the validity of these claims. Some believe that the claims are exaggerated, while others believe that we are not really paying attention to the issue of the changes of the facial profile occuring due to tooth extractions
• In this guide I will give a historical and a statiscal foundation for my argument that you should avoid tooth extractions unless and until it is absolutely required i.e. Jaw Surgery.

HISTORY OF EXTRACTIONS
​

View attachment 3655016

• The early days of modern orthodontics featured almost no tooth extractions. Even the most crowded teeth were somehow fixed without any premolar extractions somehow using the tools and methods available at the time
• Dr Edward Angle, who is considered the father of modern orthodontics, was extremely adamant regarding his conviction that all the 32 teeth were to be kept intact for an aesthetic smile. From 1890 to 1930 orthodontists followed his philosophy of avoiding extractions at all cost in all cases related to malocclusion. Extracting healty adult teeth was considered barbaric in Edward Angle's time and was only done in barber shops
• But Angle's student Dr Charles Tweed concluded in a conference to much outrage that extractions were the preferred way to solve malocclusion. He argued that extracting premolar teeth were the only way to prevent relapse of teeth i.e. moving back into the same position they were in. He also argued that the reduced jaws and flatter lips as a result of extractions were more aesthetic than the other way round. Given photo below is the result of Tweed's case study. You be the judge of what is more aesthetic
• View attachment 3655044
• One of the most eminent individuals in dentistry at that time B.F. Dewel produced hundreds of case studies showing that extractions produced downgrown mandibles in children and hindered jaw growth. It was also argued that the forward head posture as a result of Tweed's method suggested something wrong with the cranial development. There were a lot of harsh words spoken towards Premolar Extractions and a lot of orthodontists warned against Tweed's methods saying that orthodontists would regret flattening American smiles
• Despite all these criticisms, Premolar Extractions became popular in America in 1960s whereby it was done in almost 70% of cases involving malocclusion. The primary reason was that Premolar Extractions indeed did prevent relapse, the method reduced treatement time and hence proved to be cheaper to patients. By 1970s it had become standard of care to remove healthy teeth just to fit the other teeth in the dental arch.
• After the 1970s terryfing results came in that showed that Premolar Extractions resulted in a "flattened profile" which was mainly because of bone resorption due to the extractions. This was further proved by twin studies that showed the stark difference
• View attachment 3655065
• View attachment 3655069
• View attachment 3655070
• The answer to all these aesthetic changes by the orthodontists who did extractions was that it was because of the genetic predisposition of the child not because of the extractions treatment. To the opposite they successfully tried to reduce the stigma around extractions throught this infamous advertisement
• View attachment 3655076
• However, while they were lying to the public the orthodontist community quietly reduced the rates of extraction treatment from 70% in the 60s to 50% in the 70s and even lesser in the 80s. In-house there was a real acknowledgement of the dangers of extraction and this historical review explains in its section dedicated to the 70s that how orthodontists were starting to understand the fact that extractions lead to "dished in" faces and a whole host of undesired aesthetic changes.
• To bring home my point, I would like to present this photo of the our very own Miss America who featured in a pro extraction ad. When does look better ? pre treatment or post treatment ?
• View attachment 3655079

WHY EXTRACTIONS MATTER TO LOOKSMAXXING AND HEALTHMAXXING
​

View attachment 3655080

1. Premolar extractions lead to loss of jaw bone that surrounds the extracted tooth. The process begins immediately after extraction and 60% of the bone is lost after the extraction takes place. It continues to happen even after the teeth have moved in and the treatment is completed. This process is called as alveolar ridge resorption and the lost bone cannot be recovered. The dental arch is also retracted after the extraction to utlilise the space to stratghten teeth. This is shown in the image above. Due to the retraction procedure performed after extraction the palate shrinks as shown in the image below
The study referenced
View attachment 3655081

2.The mandible and the maxilla may grow downward instead of forward if extractions are performed on patients who are still growing. Less teeth in a child and a shrunken alveolar ridge has been consistently shown to hinder jaw growth. The image below shows efore and after Extraction/Retraction; the patient's jaws grew down and backward. The patient's father, a medical doctor, sued the orthodontist for facial disfigurement.

View attachment 3655083

3. The zygomatic bones may flatten. Study referenced credit to @juju06

4. The condoyle position may be changed which can lead to TMJ

View attachment 3655085

5. The hyoid bone may change position

6.The pharyngial airway will narrow. This is the most brutal risk since narrowing the airway has many consequences of the quality of life. A narrow airway is a potential cause of severe breathing problems such as Obstructive Sleep Apnea and UARS. This finding can link OSA to extractions and be a silent health killer since it disrupts the quality of life in many ways. Brain fog, stroke, hypertension, depression, fatigue, type 2 diabetes, metabolic syndrome, fatty liver disease are all linked to sleep apnea. That is why it is so hard to diagnose the cause of other health issues in patients who have sleep apnea, because unless you do a sleep study you wont know what is wrong. The link between extractions and narrowed airway was found by scientists using a 3-D cone beam analysis and the studies are linked in a Google Sheet in this point above

7. This is not it though. The extraction of a few teeth has a domino effect on the entire body. It is so significant that it can ruin the entire posture of the body. Moreover, TMJ may be induced due to the retruded mandible, the Cervical vertebrae will compress and somatic tinnitus may develop. The shoulders will slump, neck curve will change, the lower back will sway and as a result back pain may develop. All due to removing teeth. A reference image is shown below

View attachment 3655127

WHAT TO DO IF YOU WANT TO TREAT BAD TEETH WITHOUT EXTRACTIONS ?​

1. The number thing is to get multiple consultations with different orthodontists. It never hurts and the first consultation is usually free. There are many orthodontists in the Western nations who are willing to treat malocclusions without extracting healthy teeth, so never settle for a suboptimal outcome and waste your money unless it is absolutely required and not doing so would result in adverse health consequences

2. It is advisable to go to a maxillofacial surgeon first to determine whether you are clinically recessed and whether your case warrants surgery. In such cases camouflage orthodontics does not treat the cause of the issue that is the jaw. You might end up with TMJ or some other jaw related issue if your upper and lower jaws are not aligned and the treatment consists of retracting the jaws

3. Go to an orthodontist as early as possible. The faster you catch the problem the better it is since the maxillary sutures are shut by the time you turn 16. When you are growing, it is still possible to expand your jaw using myofacial appliances and undergo an expansion treatment instead of the normal retraction treatement. It not only benefits aesthetics but also prevents airway issues going into the future. A huge downside is that it is costly and it hurts a lot so patient compliance is very less due to which only a few orthodontists recommend this treatment

4. If you are above 16, there is still hope as you can still undergo maxillary expansion surgery that is provided by Dr Kasey Li. It is not at all related to aesthetics and is more of a treatment for sleep apnea caused by stunted jaw growth. Take this advice as healthmaxxing, since whatever aesthetic changes are caused, they are barely subtle





THANK YOU FOR READING IF YOU HAVE COME THIS FAR !

@sigmamogger @davidlaidisme67 @talcel @The Homelander @goyimslayer

Good thread, quite comprehensive. Worth covering maxillary protraction devices in 6-12 year olds as well.
If treatment is applied early enough, before maxillary sutures start sealing, then you can avoid jaw surgery in many cases by adulthood.

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

i've forgotten abt it 3 times thru alr but ur shtty posts keep triggering my noti so i have to come back, dni w me go farm ur reps niggha gl in life

"General knowledge" . Yeah knowledge so well known that you said tooth extraction dont change bones. Jfl at this retardation. Triggered at being proven wrong again and again

 

[isegrim314]

Back when I wore braces as a teen the dentist wanted me to have all my wisdom teeth extracted, but I refused, to this day they haven't erupted

 

[geneticdiff]

"General knowledge" . Yeah knowledge so well known that you said tooth extraction dont change bones. Jfl at this retardation. Triggered at being proven wrong again and again

i said it wouldn't matter in the context of getting ortho surgery lilnigga

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

Good thread, quite comprehensive. Worth covering maxillary protraction devices in 6-12 year olds as well.
If treatment is applied early enough, before maxillary sutures start sealing, then you can avoid jaw surgery in many cases by adulthood.

That is a good point. But half my time was wasted in arguing with an idiot who was presenting wrong information. He like Paul Allen, but more retarded since I could catch when he changed the goalposts. I will maybe do this in a sequel posts. Early treatment is the key to avoiding retraction extraction procedures. I cant stress that enough even though it is expensive. Saves surgery costs later

 

[sensitive young man]

i said it wouldn't matter in the context of getting ortho surgery lilnigga

nigga you still here? accept you were wrong you little egotistical fuck

 

[geneticdiff]

nigga you still here? accept you were wrong you little egotistical fuck

stop pinging then u faggotnigger

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

nigga you still here? accept you were wrong you little egotistical fuck

Didnt even specify ortgo suergery but sure "general knowledge"

 

[Eren]

@sensitive young man

you exclusively speak about premolars, what about wisdom teeth ?

it had a quite negative effect for me personally, but it doesn't matter anymore as i will do bimax and would have been removed eventually
Would have been recessed regardless anyway

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

you exclusively speak about premolars, what about wisdom teeth ?

it had a quite negative effect for me personally, but it doesn't matter anymore as i will do bimax and would have been removed eventually
Would have been recessed regardless anyway

Wisdom teeth is very unclear. In some patients it does have an effect but they were recessed heavily anyway. I think you should talk your doctor regarding the treatment comprehensively since it is on a case to case basis. But for a lot of people wisdom teeth removal dont change the jaw structure literally. There are uncommon cases like you however, it will be only realised when we undertake 3-D scan studies on a longitudnal scale

 

[Eren]

Wisdom teeth is very unclear. In some patients it does have an effect but they were recessed heavily anyway. I think you should talk your doctor regarding the treatment comprehensively since it is on a case to case basis. But for a lot of people wisdom teeth removal dont change the jaw structure literally. There are uncommon cases like you however, it will be only realised when we undertake 3-D scan studies on a longitudnal scale

my lower jaw litterally melted after removal at 17 so this is possible but surely because i was subhumanly predisposed to indeed

 

[Snicket]

That is a good point. But half my time was wasted in arguing with an idiot who was presenting wrong information. He like Paul Allen, but more retarded since I could catch when he changed the goalposts. I will maybe do this in a sequel posts. Early treatment is the key to avoiding retraction extraction procedures. I cant stress that enough even though it is expensive. Saves surgery costs later

Here's a study on early face-mask treatment of maxillary recession in children and its diminishing efficacy in mid to late teenagers.
Might be useful, might not. Either way, take a look:

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

my lower jaw litterally melted after removal at 17 so this is possible but surely because i was subhumanly predisposed to indeed

Yeah, it is very possible. But whether it is common, or the degree of change, or what causes such changes are not really studied since wisdom tooth removal is "standard practice". So it wont be challenged until a landmark study questions its whole foundation. Kinda like how the wave theory of light shook the foundation of the particle theory. But there are surgeons who can deal with your condition so there is hope for your case

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

Here's a study on early face-mask treatment of maxillary recession in children and its diminishing efficacy in mid to late teenagers.
Might be useful, might not. Either way, take a look:

This is an excellent find. But this study is very comprehensive on its own, so it deserves its own post. I will find the time in May most probably.

 

[andy9432]

What about wisdom teeth extractions?

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

What about wisdom teeth extractions?

They are fine. But you can face problems since they are not uncommon. This thread was about premolar extractions but I got carried away as you can see and forgot to specify that. This is specifically for premolar extractions in the cases of braces and even then, only if your case is not spefically severe, you should avoid extractions. For Jaw Surgery it is fine

 

[Snicket]

They are fine. But you can face problems since they are not uncommon. This thread was about premolar extractions but I got carried away as you can see and forgot to specify that. This is specifically for premolar extractions in the cases of braces and even then, only if your case is not spefically severe, you should avoid extractions. For Jaw Surgery it is fine

Yes, wisdom teeth removal is fine for jaw surgery.

 

[alurmo]

lol i removed 4 teeth for braces

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

lol i removed 4 teeth for braces

Cant really change it now. But it shows its effects to varying degrees. Not everyone becomes a goblin. Most people get the side effects but to differing degrees. Depends on the initial bone structure too. But if I included all that people would have left dnr on this thread. Even on this short post there is some idiot arguing nonsense

 

[Snicket]

lol i removed 4 teeth for braces

Ironically had zero crowding or extractions but pan-facial hypoplasia.
My dentist didn't even tell my parents that I had a near 1cm underbite at 6 years old.
I consider that negligence considering how crucial early face mask intervention can be at that age.

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

Ironically had zero crowding or extractions but pan-facial hypoplasia.
My dentist didn't even tell my parents that I had a near 1cm underbite at 6 years old.
I consider that negligence considering how crucial early face mask intervention can be at that age.

How did such a sever malocclusion go unnoticed ? That requires surgery not braces damn

 

[Snicket]

How did such a sever malocclusion go unnoticed ? That requires surgery not braces damn

Parents were just uneducated unfortunately. Had they known, they would have done something.
Early facemask use likely would have fixed my underbite or brought me within a just a few mm of class 1 occlusion.

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

Parents were just uneducated unfortunately. Had they known, they would have done something.
Early facemask use likely would have fixed my underbite or brought me within a just a few mm of class 1 occlusion.

Damn, that's brutal. Now wonder why rich people's look better on average since they can afford such procedures and orthodontists who provide these

 

[goyimslayer]

lol i removed 4 teeth for braces

i had braces for 2 years, but luckily i didnt need to extract any teeth

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

i had braces for 2 years, but luckily i didnt need to extract any teeth

Most likely that didnt change your actual maxilla, just the dental ridge

 

[Snicket]

Damn, that's brutal. Now wonder why rich people's look better on average since they can afford such procedures and orthodontists who provide these

Pretty much. So much of treating conditions is early identification and intervention though.
Prevention is almost always worth more than the cure.

 

[goyimslayer]

@loyolaxavvierretard Maybe you know something about this, I had braces for 2 years and since I took it off I have used a permanent retainer. Basically it's metal wires in the back of my upper front teeth, and my lower front teeth.

The retainer is there to stop my teeth from reverting back to their original position and I will have these metal wires in my mouth until the day I die

Anyways, is it possible that the braces/retainer has somehow interfered with the growth of my lower jaw? My jaw/chin is basically downgrown for some reason, not FORWARD grown like normal but literally grown downwards...

Was this caused by my orthodontic procedure or just genetical?

 

[goyimslayer]

@loyolaxavvierretard Maybe you know something about this, I had braces for 2 years and since I took it off I have used a permanent retainer. Basically it's metal wires in the back of my upper front teeth, and my lower front teeth.

The retainer is there to stop my teeth from reverting back to their original position and I will have these metal wires in my mouth until the day I die

Anyways, is it possible that the braces/retainer has somehow interfered with the growth of my lower jaw? My jaw/chin is basically downgrown for some reason, not FORWARD grown like normal but literally grown downwards...

Was this caused by my orthodontic procedure or just genetical?

I'm 18 now and used braces from 15-17

 

[superpsycho]

i dont plan on getting shit extracted

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

@loyolaxavvierretard Maybe you know something about this, I had braces for 2 years and since I took it off I have used a permanent retainer. Basically it's metal wires in the back of my upper front teeth, and my lower front teeth.

The retainer is there to stop my teeth from reverting back to their original position and I will have these metal wires in my mouth until the day I die

Anyways, is it possible that the braces/retainer has somehow interfered with the growth of my lower jaw? My jaw/chin is basically downgrown for some reason, not FORWARD grown like normal but literally grown downwards...

Was this caused by my orthodontic procedure or just genetical?

Not really, the retainer doesnt push the teeth. It prevents the moving of teeth back into the original position unlike braces which push teeth. Also it has an effect on the teeth only not on the bone so ot wouldnt really stunt the jaw growth. Retainers act like a placeholder that dont put any significant pressure on the teeth. Since they cant really move the teeth they cant move bone

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

i dont plan on getting shit extracted

Good, but depending on the condition you may need wisdom tooth removal

 

[Snicket]

Not really, the retainer doesnt push the teeth. It prevents the moving of teeth back into the original position unlike braces which push teeth. Also it has an effect on the teeth only not on the bone so ot wouldnt really stunt the jaw growth. Retainers act like a placeholder that dont put any significant pressure on the teeth. Since they cant really move the teeth they cant move bone

Yes, fixed retainers are about preventing dental relapse from orthodontic treatment.

 

[superpsycho]

Good, but depending on the condition you may need wisdom tooth removal

hasnt affected me whatsoever

 

[goyimslayer]

Not really, the retainer doesnt push the teeth. It prevents the moving of teeth back into the original position unlike braces which push teeth. Also it has an effect on the teeth only not on the bone so ot wouldnt really stunt the jaw growth. Retainers act like a placeholder that dont put any significant pressure on the teeth. Since they cant really move the teeth they cant move bone

Alright I understand but what about the braces? Could they have interfered with the growth of my mandible/lower jaw?

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

Alright I understand but what about the braces? Could they have interfered with the growth of my mandible/lower jaw?

Not really, they change the dental ridge. Cant affect the alveolar area unless they were moved significantly at an early age and that is what is done in extraction treatment

 

[Snicket]

Alright I understand but what about the braces? Could they have interfered with the growth of my mandible/lower jaw?

Unlikely. Orthodontists generally deal with the effects of jaw malformations while surgeons deal with the underlying cause.

Orthodontists are rightly criticised on here but they also get a lot of unfair shit as well.

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

hasnt affected me whatsoever

Then you are one of the lucky ones, although you should wait before you turn 25

 

[superpsycho]

Then you are one of the lucky ones, although you should wait before you turn 25

i plan on it

 

[goyimslayer]

Not really, they change the dental ridge. Cant affect the alveolar area unless they were moved significantly at an early age and that is what is done in extraction treatment

What's the dental ridge, I searched up on Google but didn't really find an understandable answer

 

[loyolaxavvierretard]

What's the dental ridge, I searched up on Google but didn't really find an understandable answer

Basically shorthand for the dental arch. It holds your teeth. It doesnt affect the real life jaw aesthetics. But the alveolar ridge does since there is where the bone resorption happens first and it is connected to jaw aesthetics