Were the X-rays inaccurate this whole time?

[Dolorous]

I saw an edit on height stuff on tiktok (yes i know) and one of the screenshots was a study basically concluding that X-rays significantly overrated level of wrist fusion in boys playing soccer

@AtrophicPyra @Gudlifer @polarpop @tension @Badrya

please consider looking at the article if you have time: https://www.researchgate.net/public...on_for_exclusion_of_overaged_football_players

 

[blacksuit]

how overrated are we talking? like years of growth more or less?

 

[Dolorous]

how overrated are we talking? like years of growth more or less?

good question honestly, i don't know but the study just said "significantly overrate the grading of fusion in this age group"

look at the study though and tell me your thoughts

 

[Dolorous]

@sha @Eldian read the study please so i can have more opinions on this

 

[lmnopq]

I saw an edit on height stuff on tiktok (yes i know) and one of the screenshots was a study basically concluding that X-rays significantly overrated level of wrist fusion in boys playing soccer

@AtrophicPyra @Gudlifer @polarpop @tension @Badrya

please consider looking at the article if you have time: https://www.researchgate.net/public...on_for_exclusion_of_overaged_football_players

Yes I beleive bppremed reposted this a while ago and yes it is true, but it doesn’t mean much growth will be achieved naturally, just that the growth plate can still form bone when drugs are used ie fgfr3 inhibitors, growth hormone megadose

 

[Dolorous]

Yes I beleive bppremed reposted this a while ago and yes it is true, but it doesn’t mean much growth will be achieved naturally, just that the growth plate can still form bone when drugs are used ie fgfr3 inhibitors, growth hormone megadose

yeah LO i didn't want to say bpedpremed but this is where i'm getting it from. did you look at the study?

 

[Niebvll]

how overrated are we talking? like years of growth more or less?

way less

 

[Dolorous]

way less

alain delon avi to damian kater edit? well how much less would you say

 

[Niebvll]

well how much less would you say

Grade classification:
1 No fusion seen of the growth plate. There are two or three continuous
broad lucent lines traversing the growth plate horizontally ( figure 1 )
2 There is disruption of one or two of the continuous bands above ( figure 2 )
3 There is evidence of fusion across the growth plate but less than 50% of
the tot al width of the radius ( figure 3 )
4 There is more th an 50% fusion across the growth plate. The unfused
port ions on one side of the growth plate must exceed 5 mm from any one
side across the growth plate ( figure 4 )
5 There is almost complete fusion with only the presence of a notch
measuring less than 5 mm on the radial or uln a side or both sides of the
growth plate ( figure 5 )
6 There is complete fusion of the g rowth plate . There is no evidence of any
notch ( figure 6)


Measured grades/grade differences (compare means)

 

[Dolorous]

Grade classification:
1 No fusion seen of the growth plate. There are two or three continuous
broad lucent lines traversing the growth plate horizontally ( figure 1 )
2 There is disruption of one or two of the continuous bands above ( figure 2 )
3 There is evidence of fusion across the growth plate but less than 50% of
the tot al width of the radius ( figure 3 )
4 There is more th an 50% fusion across the growth plate. The unfused
port ions on one side of the growth plate must exceed 5 mm from any one
side across the growth plate ( figure 4 )
5 There is almost complete fusion with only the presence of a notch
measuring less than 5 mm on the radial or uln a side or both sides of the
growth plate ( figure 5 )
6 There is complete fusion of the g rowth plate . There is no evidence of any
notch ( figure 6)


Measured grades/grade differences (compare means)
View attachment 5665519

thanks for showing this, i may just be retarded but how would comparing the means give an estimate of how much time is actually left

 

[polarpop]

they didnt use standard xray machines from clinics.

and were using the wrong grading rules on the wrong imagining

 

[Niebvll]

thanks for showing this, i may just be retarded but how would comparing the means give an estimate of how much time is actually left

It wouldnt
It shows the mean difference with both methods used, thus the inaccuracy of normal x rays
you dont measure gps by time left anyways, if anything you could make a prediction of growth left

 

[Dolorous]

It wouldnt
It shows the mean difference with both methods used, thus the inaccuracy of normal x rays
you dont measure gps by time left anyways, if anything you could make a prediction of growth left

youre amazing for this, and "inaccuracy of normal x rays" can be interpreted in our favor yes? even if not much

 

[Dolorous]

they didnt use standard xray machines from clinics.

and were using the wrong grading rules on the wrong imagining

oh, so does that make their final conclusion invalid then

 

[Niebvll]

youre amazing for this, and "inaccuracy of normal x rays" can be interpreted in our favor yes? even if not much

As seen in the study
with the methods they used yes except for the 15yo cohort

 

[polarpop]

oh, so does that make their final conclusion invalid then

Yes, interesting study tho

 

[Niebvll]

they didnt use standard xray machines from clinics.

The DR is completely fine in my view, whats your critique on it?

and were using the wrong grading rules

Its not a wrong grading
just a different one compared to standard ones
Though I agree that this shouldnt be assumed onto actual clinical xray estimates since they use specificially adjusted scalings and interpretations instead of MRI based ones

on the wrong imagining

imagining?

 

[tension]

i don’t care abt ts anymore now that my plates are closed

either way from what i’ve learned is that basically every “heightmax” is cope anyway

basically every drug needs to be started when you’re really young which none of us are

nutrition/lifestyle/habits also matter but it’s also in early years that it matters

early years = under 13 imo

i personally believe that a high protein diet + optimized sleep schedule from birth mogs pharmaceuticals unironically

only real heightmaxxes are lifts and LL tho

 

[polarpop]

The DR is completely fine in my view, whats your critique on it?

Its not a wrong grading
just a different one compared to standard ones
Though I agree that this shouldnt be assumed onto actual clinical xray estimates since they use specificially adjusted scalings and interpretations instead of MRI based ones

imagining?

yeah my bad “wrong” was the wrong word

the fifa scale was made for mri. when they just used that same scale on xrays, the xrays kept grading it as more fused than the mri did on the same kids

so not that xrays are inaccurate, you just cant copy the mri cutoffs onto them. normal clinical bone age stuff uses its own scales anyway

(and yeah i meant imaging lol)

 

[polarpop]

i don’t care abt ts anymore now that my plates are closed

View attachment 5665789View attachment 5665790View attachment 5665792

either way from what i’ve learned is that basically every “heightmax” is cope anyway

basically every drug needs to be started when you’re really young which none of us are

nutrition/lifestyle/habits also matter but it’s also in early years that it matters

early years = under 13 imo

i personally believe that a high protein diet + optimized sleep schedule from birth mogs pharmaceuticals unironically

only real heightmaxxes are lifts and LL tho

agreed

 

[Niebvll]

yeah my bad “wrong” was the wrong word

the fifa scale was made for mri. when they just used that same scale on xrays, the xrays kept grading it as more fused than the mri did on the same kids

so not that xrays are inaccurate, you just cant copy the mri cutoffs onto them. normal clinical bone age stuff uses its own scales anyway

yeah that is what I also said
but what about the DR?

 

[polarpop]

yeah that is what I also said
but what about the DR?

nothing wrong with the dr itself

the study just showed that when you use the exact same fifa grading scale on both, the xrayy version of the dr looks more fused than the mri version does on the same kid

the mismatched grading was the isseu

 

[Niebvll]

nothing wrong with the dr itself

the study just showed that when you use the exact same fifa grading scale on both, the xrayy version of the dr looks more fused than the mri version does on the same kid

the mismatched grading was the isseu

Then why argue with this?

 

[Dolorous]

i don’t care abt ts anymore now that my plates are closed

View attachment 5665789View attachment 5665790View attachment 5665792

either way from what i’ve learned is that basically every “heightmax” is cope anyway

basically every drug needs to be started when you’re really young which none of us are

nutrition/lifestyle/habits also matter but it’s also in early years that it matters

early years = under 13 imo

i personally believe that a high protein diet + optimized sleep schedule from birth mogs pharmaceuticals unironically

only real heightmaxxes are lifts and LL tho

ik lol i just wanted to tag people i've had conversations with, you're one of them

that's suicidefuel to read, but some would argue that you achieve some meaningful growth in the spine pretty late in life like polarpop

lifts are fine, but i've heard overuse can lead to shitty posture and somehow affecting your natural height?

 

[tension]

ik lol i just wanted to tag people i've had conversations with, you're one of them

nah i’m happy to be tagged

lifts are fine, but i've heard overuse can lead to shitty posture and somehow affecting your natural height?

yeah i’ve heard that too but it’s mostly false

you’re obviously still gonna be taller with the lifts even if u have slightly worse posture

also, ur not forced to have worse posture

just get used to a little incline and increase it every once in a while

that's suicidefuel to read, but some would argue that you achieve some meaningful growth in the spine pretty late in life like polarpop

it’s possible to see SOME growth

but i wouldn’t say “meaningful”

when ur knees are closed ur not gon grow much more

 

[Gudlifer]

if your wrist is fused, it doesnt necessarily mean you cant grow taller

growth plates close from the extremes inwards (so fingers toes first, then metacarpals and carpals and feet, then wrist and ankles, then elbows then knees the upper femur and finally ur spine) so theres a chance someone with fused wrist plates can still grow taller, however it does mean that bone age is significantly advanced so ull see less growth

GreulichPyle bone age scale are based on xrays, not MRI, the bone age standardization is still accurate if we take that as the reference.
but if bone age is 19+ in greulich pyle w xray you still probably cant grow much at all

basically every drug needs to be started when you’re really young

this is not true

when ur knees are closed ur not gon grow much more

also not true
you can grow multiple inches from your spine even after knee gps are basically almost fully fused

obviously the more open they are the more you can grow but ur claim is still not true








OP, if ur plates are fused just start saving for LL you can get up to 6 inches safely, 4 with a single surgery (excluding the nail extraction) and u can start walking within 2 weeks w dr paley now

 

[tension]

this is not true

good argument

also not true
you can grow multiple inches from your spine even after knee gps are basically almost fully fused

obviously the more open they are the more you can grow but ur claim is still not true

who has significantly grown from their spine after their knees plates fused

 

[Dolorous]

if your wrist is fused, it doesnt necessarily mean you cant grow taller

growth plates close from the extremes inwards (so fingers toes first, then metacarpals and carpals and feet, then wrist and ankles, then elbows then knees the upper femur and finally ur spine) so theres a chance someone with fused wrist plates can still grow taller, however it does mean that bone age is significantly advanced so ull see less growth

GreulichPyle bone age scale are based on xrays, not MRI, the bone age standardization is still accurate if we take that as the reference.
but if bone age is 19+ in greulich pyle w xray you still probably cant grow much at all



this is not true



also not true
you can grow multiple inches from your spine even after knee gps are basically almost fully fused

obviously the more open they are the more you can grow but ur claim is still not true








OP, if ur plates are fused just start saving for LL you can get up to 6 inches safely, 4 with a single surgery (excluding the nail extraction) and u can start walking within 2 weeks w dr paley now

lifefuel reading some of this from you, yeah i just cope professionally so people like you make my day.

im a pussy and too much of a coper to undergo LL, just too brutal pyschologically

 

[Gudlifer]

who has significantly grown from their spine after their knees plates fused

lots of people if they do the proper interventions
naturally its likely less than an inch but doesnt mean you CANT grow

good argument

it is because its not true

 

[tension]

lots of people if they do the proper interventions
naturally its likely less than an inch but doesnt mean you CANT grow

i was asking for an example

idc abt hypotheticals

it is because its not true

cope a day keeps the rope away ig

 

[Gudlifer]

lifefuel reading some of this from you, yeah i just cope professionally so people like you make my day.

im a pussy and too much of a coper to undergo LL, just too brutal pyschologically

its really not that bad

main issue for most people will be getting the necessary funds



and you should be injecting yourself with unapproved chemicals from a suspicious source instead of coping professionally


if u r already doing that but havent rlly grown, u probably cant grow (unless youre doing some bs ahh protocol)

 

[Dolorous]

its really not that bad

main issue for most people will be getting the necessary funds



and you should be injecting yourself with unapproved chemicals from a suspicious source instead of coping professionally


if u r already doing that but havent rlly grown, u probably cant grow (unless youre doing some bs ahh protocol)

yeah i did try a height thing but it was fucking horseshit because i ran arimidex and hgh only for like 10 days, cage at my retarded self it's just hard to not get scammed while searching for the more complex stuff, but i agree with the point

 

[Gudlifer]

yeah i did try a height thing but it was fucking horseshit because i ran arimidex and hgh only for like 10 days, cage at my retarded self it's just hard to not get scammed while searching for the more complex stuff, but i agree with the point

keep doing the AI

 

[Badrya]

Grade classification:
1 No fusion seen of the growth plate. There are two or three continuous
broad lucent lines traversing the growth plate horizontally ( figure 1 )
2 There is disruption of one or two of the continuous bands above ( figure 2 )
3 There is evidence of fusion across the growth plate but less than 50% of
the tot al width of the radius ( figure 3 )
4 There is more th an 50% fusion across the growth plate. The unfused
port ions on one side of the growth plate must exceed 5 mm from any one
side across the growth plate ( figure 4 )
5 There is almost complete fusion with only the presence of a notch
measuring less than 5 mm on the radial or uln a side or both sides of the
growth plate ( figure 5 )
6 There is complete fusion of the g rowth plate . There is no evidence of any
notch ( figure 6)


Measured grades/grade differences (compare means)
View attachment 5665519

Rhgh is not cope ur just an idiot
how is hgh cope give me an a good argument for that u fucking bitch im unretiring to demolish the hgh hate once and for all

 

[Dolorous]

Rhgh is not cope ur just an idiot
how is hgh cope give me an a good argument for that u fucking bitch im unretiring to demolish the hgh hate once and for all

its you again i hope you've been well, but do you have any thoughts on the research article

try to keep the war with niebull at a minimum if you can