Where is the line between sub-optimal craniofacial development and actual deformity?

[DoctorLooksmax]

For example - surely you would not call someone with a skeletal overbite of 3mm deformed. However a skeletal overbite of 1cm would be classed as deformity by many on the forum

Nor someone with slightly excessive gum show or maybe only 75% incisor show as being deformed. However people within minimal incisor show as classed as SFS deformity and also horse faces with tons of gum show opposite end of the spectrum

Is there a place we draw the line between deformity and just non-ideal jaw development (which most people have anyway).

I’m curious as to how surgeons actualy classify people as maxillary hypoplasia, SFS etc. are there actualy metrics for these things? Or an individual surgeons discretion

 

[Deleted member 4430]

Maxillary hypoplasia, or maxillary deficiency, when It is associated with Crouzon syndrome, Angelman syndrome, as well as fetal alcohol syndrome.

this is the only definition of craniofacial deformit.

and since 100% of the userbase here has no medical education and no cranifacial surgery education at all, their opinion may not matter to any person.

 

[KingBetaTut]

For example - surely you would not call someone with a skeletal overbite of 3mm deformed. However a skeletal overbite of 1cm would be classed as deformity by many on the forum

Nor someone with slightly excessive gum show or maybe only 75% incisor show as being deformed. However people within minimal incisor show as classed as SFS deformity and also horse faces with tons of gum show opposite end of the spectrum

Is there a place we draw the line between deformity and just non-ideal jaw development (which most people have anyway).

I’m curious as to how surgeons actualy classify people as maxillary hypoplasia, SFS etc. are there actualy metrics for these things? Or an individual surgeons discretion

Bro surgeon got absolutely no clue most of the time. It’s the reason why no two surgeon will give you a single plan from fixing someone’s subhumanity

 

[Deleted member 18840]

Seems relative to your skull, ethnicity and race, from talking to lots of surgeons.
Beside the obvious frankpurt plane and etc.
But the difference to me is just in how you get treated by girls. If you get pretty privileged then its just sub optimal else its irl deformity.
Because else i would consider 99,99/100 of people i see irl as aesthetically recessed per psl standards - good bite yet shit bones and projection. And women aren't as harsh.

 

[Foreverbrad]

Well the UK NHS requires a class 2 to be 6mm or more before being considered for surgery.

 

[DoctorLooksmax]

Well the UK NHS requires a class 2 to be 6mm or more before being considered for surgery.

Only 6mm?

That’s not even that much, is that 6mm after being treated with orthodontics or prior to dental compensation?

I’m pretty sure without compensation I’ve got like 6mm overbite

 

[DoctorLooksmax]

Seems relative to your skull, ethnicity and race, from talking to lots of surgeons.
Beside the obvious frankpurt plane and etc.
But the difference to me is just in how you get treated by girls. If you get pretty privileged then its just sub optimal else its irl deformity.
Because else i would consider 99,99/100 of people i see irl as aesthetically recessed per psl standards - good bite yet shit bones and projection. And women aren't as harsh.

But some people can be perfectly well formed on a craniofacial level and still be unattractive due to something else shit shit pheno, bald, dogshit eye area , fat, something like that.

Although - I do think if you don’t have any kind of recession, nor a face that it’s noticably too short or too long- then it is rare to not be atleast above average looking

 

[6ft4]

But some people can be perfectly well formed on a craniofacial level and still be unattractive due to something else shit shit pheno, bald, dogshit eye area , fat, something like that.

I like to cope that these are the true subhumans since they have nothing to possibly improve on and still look bad and I feel the people who would be attractive if not for their craniofacial deformity should mog them from an inherit value perspective but it is not the case irl since women penalize guys with good traits + a deformity harder than they penalize guys with no good traits but no deformities

 

[DoctorLooksmax]

I like to cope that these are the true subhumans since they have nothing to possibly improve on and still look bad and I feel the people who would be attractive if not for their craniofacial deformity should mog them from an inherit value perspective but it is not the case irl since women penalize guys with good traits + a deformity harder than they penalize guys with no good traits but no deformities

Would you class me as having a deformity?

 

[6ft4]

Would you class me as having a deformity?

No I wouldn't but since you have some level of overbite you are not ideally formed so it is promising hope for surgerycension

 

[DoctorLooksmax]

No I wouldn't but since you have some level of overbite you are not ideally formed so it is promising hope for surgerycension

Hmmm that’s an interesting point - your underbite is what? Like 5mm?

I think my overbite is about the same as that. So why would you class yourself as having deformity and not me?

Is it simply because my overbite is less apparent than your underbite? Or perhaps that overbites are atleast in my opinion - less of a severe failo as underbites

 

[6ft4]

Hmmm that’s an interesting point - your underbite is what? Like 5mm?

I think my overbite is about the same as that. So why would you class yourself as having deformity and not me?

Is it simply because my overbite is less apparent than your underbite? Or perhaps that overbites are atleast in my opinion - less of a severe failo as underbites

My underbite before I had braces from 16-18 was severe
there is no way someone could've looked at me and not thought I was deformed
I did not notice you have any overbite apart from you pointing it out and analyzing your profile view

 

[DoctorLooksmax]

I

My underbite before I had braces from 16-18 was severe
there is no way someone could've looked at me and not thought I was deformed
I did not notice you have any overbite apart from you pointing it out and analyzing your profile view

I agree yours is more visually evident- is that just because underbites are worse than overbites?

Like is a 7-9mm overbite equivalent to as much as a failo as 4-5mm underbite?

I’ve noticed underbitecels seem to ascend harder from jaw survery than overbitecels with similar movements so maybe this is the case

 

[6ft4]

I


I agree yours is more visually evident- is that just because underbites are worse than overbites?

Like is a 7-9mm overbite equivalent to as much as a failo as 4-5mm underbite?

I’ve noticed underbitecels seem to ascend harder from jaw survery than overbitecels with similar movements so maybe this is the case

I can't picture in my mind what a 7-9mm overbite looks like, I'd need to see examples of different sized overbites

As far as I'm aware plenty of overbitecels can have maxillas with adequate projection, bringing the mandible forward to match will remove the incompetent look caused by an overbite but the thing that makes a person pretty (their maxilla projection) has already been established

When you take someone's maxilla from recessed to not recessed you are unlocking some additional prettiness.
Unfortunately tho the recession of the upper maxilla cannot be undone so a surgerymaxxed underbitecel will never get to the same level as someone with naturally forward maxilla so arguably the overbitecel has the better maxilla
It's probably a case that the overbitecel sees a less drastic improvement because they're already used to looking in the mirror and seeing a decent maxilla so that aspect of their looks is already taken for granted

I sometimes just sit and reflect in disbelief at how fucking bad it is to have a recessed maxilla and how I coped with it all these years, like the most important bone in the face for attraction happens to be pressed back inwards on my face

 

[6ft4]

Some of Rami's finest work

Then there's some lefort cases where there's negligable difference