Which one looks better?

[Joaquin]

his mandibular plane angle changed ,also his gonial angle and his lowet third is vertivally shorter, but which one looks better to you?

 

[Joaquin]

Bump.

 

[Joaquin]

@Volksstaffel
@Arthur the Egyptian
@maxlooksmax

 

[KaisenMaxxer]

2nd has better rammus and gonion visibility but too much downgrowth, 1rst is better overall despite a bit lacking in rammus and gonion

 

[LTNUser]

2nd look makes his jaw worse

 

[Joaquin]

2nd has better rammus and gonion visibility but too much downgrowth, 1rst is better overall despite a bit lacking in rammus and gonion

He achieved ccw rotation

 

[maxlooksmax]

View attachment 3763941View attachment 3763942his mandibular plane angle changed ,also his gonial angle and his lowet third is vertivally shorter, but which one looks better to you?

obviously the first

 

[Joaquin]

obviously the first

What changes do you notice?

 

[maxlooksmax]

What changes do you notice?

insane downgrowth

 

[Debetro]

I don't notice anything. Over for international competition but well enough for national.

 

[Joaquin]

I don't notice anything. Over for international competition but well enough for national.

You are blind I think

 

[Debetro]

You are blind I think

There is no change there.

It's a head/neck and angle thing along with frowning. I've been enough time here and orthotropic sites, and let me tell you there has never been a good transformation via mewing, thumbpulling, towel pulling or any of the other stuff (I assume what you are showing is some transformation pictures of this style)

 

[Joaquin]

There is no change there.

It's a head/neck and angle thing along with frowning. I've been enough time here and orthotropic sites, and let me tell you there has never been a good transformation via mewing, thumbpulling, towel pulling or any of the other stuff (I assume what you are showing is some transformation pictures of this style)

Yeah bro its just angles

 

[Debetro]

Yeah bro its just angles

It indeed is.

Angles and head-neck position make your face look more or less projected.

I was into a lot of this stuff back in the day when it was trendy in 2018-2021.

Lots of people trying a lot of stuff in forums like thegreatwork. But there has never been any result as far as bone movement concerns, at most teeth position with appliances. Why? Because your bones in your face are +98% fused by 14 and you can't change them just like that. Mike Mew states himself, mewing won't bring bone changes past the age of 12.

 

[Joaquin]

It indeed is.

View attachment 3764068View attachment 3764069

View attachment 3764073View attachment 3764071

Angles and head-neck position make your face look more or less projected.

I was into a lot of this stuff back in the day when it was trendy in 2018-2021.

Lots of people trying a lot of stuff in forums like thegreatwork. But there has never been any result as far as bone movement concerns, at most teeth position with appliances. Why? Because your bones in your face are +98% fused by 14 and you can't change them just like that. Mike Mew states himself, mewing won't bring bone changes past the age of 12.

Elias jaw looks literally downgrown on both and jordan looks ideal on both lol. Also the transformation ive uploaded, both of the pics are nearly same angle and the change is very noticable.

 

[NEET_Emperor]

missing link ass side profile

 

[NEET_Emperor]

brazilian ass side profile

 

[Debetro]

Elias jaw looks literally downgrown on both and jordan looks ideal on both lol. Also the transformation ive uploaded, both of the pics are nearly same angle and the change is very noticable.

His neck and head position are slightly different, add frowning and slight jutting to diminish facial angle and there it is. An unexperienced eye would find it hard to see I agree.

Time will give you the answer, I used to believe in that once too.

There is a noticeable change in the facial projection of the ones I posted.

Here is another one:

Mewing, towelpulling, anything like that has never done anything to the facial bones of someone older than 14. Bones get fused by 15-16.

 

[Joaquin]

His neck and head position are slightly different, add frowning and slight jutting to diminish facial angle and there it is. An unexperienced eye would find it hard to see I agree.

Time will give you the answer, I used to believe in that once too.

There is a noticeable change in the facial projection of the ones I posted.

Here is another one:

View attachment 3764172View attachment 3764173

Mewing, towelpulling, anything like that has never done anything to the facial bones of someone older than 14. Bones get fused by 15-16.

I like how you are being logical with your arguments and respectful but I honestly dont agree with you at all, at least right now.
What is your opinion on jordan Woods transformation? He gained significant projection on his midfsce and a more compact fWHR and more things by doing thumbpulling and more things, showing the same exact angles. How do you debunk that?

 

[Alias!]

View attachment 3763941View attachment 3763942his mandibular plane angle changed ,also his gonial angle and his lowet third is vertivally shorter, but which one looks better to you?

Uno second looks so ape like

 

[enlightful]

View attachment 3763941View attachment 3763942his mandibular plane angle changed ,also his gonial angle and his lowet third is vertivally shorter, but which one looks better to you?

His mandible grew downwards

 

[Joaquin]

His mandible grew downwards

The second pic is the before and the first the after

 

[Joaquin]

His mandible grew downwards

Yes, making his lower third too long

 

[enlightful]

The second pic is the before and the first the after

Oh

How'd he gain that ccw rotation?

1st pic is better

 

[Joaquin]

Oh

How'd he gain that ccw rotation?

1st pic is better

Its an insane transformation tbhPost in thread 'Is there any way to fix my downward maxillary growth to turn upwards?' https://looksmax.org/threads/is-the...-growth-to-turn-upwards.1422401/post-20591998

 

[Debetro]

I like how you are being logical with your arguments and respectful but I honestly dont agree with you at all, at least right now.
What is your opinion on jordan Woods transformation? He gained significant projection on his midfsce and a more compact fWHR and more things by doing thumbpulling and more things, showing the same exact angles. How do you debunk that?

Can you link who is that?

I mean, mewing is great, it's the natural tongue position. After 4 or so years, I think it might have widened my palate size slightly. But nothing past that, as logically, your tongue won't produce any upwards and horizontal movement of your skull bones. There are some really detailed threads here on mewing stuff, 2019-2020, where they made all types of theories and put them in practice. Some that I remember are mewing, thumb pulling, towel pulling, incisor clenching for rotation and mouthguard clenching. There were such autistically described 30 pages long threads on the-great-work.org. So many people affirmed to have started on whatever it was and that they would update. Well, a lot of years have passed since then, and out of all of those hundreds if not thousands of people if we count reddit communities that have put all that in practice, none that I can remember came with any real results. They posted their result, but it was the same case as in OP. Think about it, how do you expect to grow a chin, get a longer mandible, etc.
Maybe widen your cheek bones? I don't think so but I'm open-minded about that. I think mewing plus teeth in contact if you have a proper bite plus mandible training via mouthguard, food, gum, etc. can have an effect on face. I can't tell you whether it's bone, that would be surprising and unlikely, I think it has to do more with muscles but it still is a positive facial change.

I believe that environment matters a lot, but especially from 0-12 ages, where if you pass a lot of time being severely deficient on something, have chronic allergies and have unproper mouth patterns, you will screw up your face and you won't be able to recover from that. As you grow older it's still a very important thing but you will be working with the base you have produced in your first decade of life.

I got slightly pissed off at that transformation, because for me it's the clear case of slightly different position, and facial expressions such as frowning and jutting. I can understand why you called me blind, in the 2nd picture there is a visible antegonial notch, in the 1st one there isn't, but it's a play of angle and jutting. I'm sure he is not doing it on purpose, he is just not aware.

 

[duplybones]

First picture

 

[Joaquin]

I believe that environment matters a lot, but especially from 0-12 ages, where if you pass a lot of time being severely deficient on something, have chronic allergies and have unproper mouth patterns, you will screw up your face and you won't be able to recover from that. As you grow older it's still a very important thing but you will be working with the base you have produced in your first decade of life.

Thats super true, I mouthbreathed my whole life until 14 yo and had a bad diet. Guess what, I became ugly even tho I really had good genetic potential.

 

[Joaquin]

Thats super true, I mouthbreathed my whole life until 14 yo and had a bad diet. Guess what, I became ugly even tho I really had good genetic potential.

Now im 17 and Im reversing the effects but even tho my long midface improved and my recessed chin too, I still have them.

 

[Debetro]

Now im 17 and Im reversing the effects but even tho my long midface improved and my recessed chin too, I still have them.

How could you have improved them if they are still there? Are you sure it's not placebo? Like, really sure?

Also, reccesion, bimaxillary protrusion, etc. Is often genetic. The example you posted is probably a case of it.

 

[Joaquin]

Can you link who is that?

I mean, mewing is great, it's the natural tongue position. After 4 or so years, I think it might have widened my palate size slightly. But nothing past that, as logically, your tongue won't produce any upwards and horizontal movement of your skull bones. There are some really detailed threads here on mewing stuff, 2019-2020, where they made all types of theories and put them in practice. Some that I remember are mewing, thumb pulling, towel pulling, incisor clenching for rotation and mouthguard clenching. There were such autistically described 30 pages long threads on the-great-work.org. So many people affirmed to have started on whatever it was and that they would update. Well, a lot of years have passed since then, and out of all of those hundreds if not thousands of people if we count reddit communities that have put all that in practice, none that I can remember came with any real results. They posted their result, but it was the same case as in OP. Think about it, how do you expect to grow a chin, get a longer mandible, etc.
Maybe widen your cheek bones? I don't think so but I'm open-minded about that. I think mewing plus teeth in contact if you have a proper bite plus mandible training via mouthguard, food, gum, etc. can have an effect on face. I can't tell you whether it's bone, that would be surprising and unlikely, I think it has to do more with muscles but it still is a positive facial change.

I believe that environment matters a lot, but especially from 0-12 ages, where if you pass a lot of time being severely deficient on something, have chronic allergies and have unproper mouth patterns, you will screw up your face and you won't be able to recover from that. As you grow older it's still a very important thing but you will be working with the base you have produced in your first decade of life.

I got slightly pissed off at that transformation, because for me it's the clear case of slightly different position, and facial expressions such as frowning and jutting. I can understand why you called me blind, in the 2nd picture there is a visible antegonial notch, in the 1st one there isn't, but it's a play of angle and jutting. I'm sure he is not doing it on purpose, he is just not aware.

This is jordan wood. The before pics are when he was 18 and the after pics are 19.
You can tell he was a late Booker, or he is abussing angles, but lets be real, this guy looks much better right now and the chances of ascending at 18 at that magnitudes are nearly impossible without doing what he did.I believe thumbpulling can really affect how your face looks because there are transofrmations but for now its pure pseoudoscience, Im just wondering if I can reverse my downgrowth as the guy on op did. Yes ok, I know, the guy on op is using a different angle and lightning, but I still have some faith that I can change.

 

[Joaquin]

How could you have improved them if they are still there? Are you sure it's not placebo? Like, really sure?

Also, reccesion, bimaxillary protrusion, etc. Is often genetic. The example you posted is probably a case of it.

I have measured my face with ratios and when I was 15, I had a 1.5 fWHR and a 0.86 midface ratio. Then I started mewing, nasal breathing and mouth taping and 2 years later I have a more compact midface and such a wider face .But overall my fsce still looks long.

 

[Joaquin]

How could you have improved them if they are still there? Are you sure it's not placebo? Like, really sure?

Also, reccesion, bimaxillary protrusion, etc. Is often genetic. The example you posted is probably a case of it.

That guy has downgrowth and downgrowth isnt really a genetic thing. Its not normal to have a downgrown maxillo mandibular complex at all if you have had good oral posture as a Child.

 

[Debetro]

That guy has downgrowth and downgrowth isnt really a genetic thing. Its not normal to have a downgrown maxillo mandibular complex at all if you have had good oral posture as a Child.

Prognathism and bimaxillary protrusion in asiatics, blacks and indigineous people is very common. I don't know if you count that as downwardgrowth.

View attachment 3764365View attachment 3764366View attachment 3764368View attachment 3764369
This is jordan wood. The before pics are when he was 18 and the after pics are 19.
You can tell he was a late Booker, or he is abussing angles, but lets be real, this guy looks much better right now and the chances of ascending at 18 at that magnitudes are nearly impossible without doing what he did.I believe thumbpulling can really affect how your face looks because there are transofrmations but for now its pure pseoudoscience, Im just wondering if I can reverse my downgrowth as the guy on op did. Yes ok, I know, the guy on op is using a different angle and lightning, but I still have some faith that I can change.

Bigger masseters, I don't see anything else.