Why 12-15% Bodyfat is optimal for most men

[JamesHowlett]

- Flat stomach + visible abs/outline
- Still looks aesthetic with decent muscle
- Lean face but not super gaunt
- Can still look big in clothes
- Good energy
- Good mood
- Good sex drive
- Good gym performance and pumps
- More flexibility to enjoy life

You can literally just keep cutting to 12% and bulking to 15%. For very special occasions, you could go down to 10% (for a vacation, etc) but it should be temporary as it’s not optimal.

There’s only a very small percentage of men who can maintain 10% or below AND have all the benefits I listed above in regards to having a normal, fulfilled life. Social media has fucked up our bodyfat standards and many of the legit fitness YouTubers agree with that.

 

[Johanjohan]

Stop coping fatty and hit the treadmill

 

[JamesHowlett]

Stop coping fatty and hit the treadmill

My goal is to be 12-15% so I’m currently cutting, I’m probably like 18-20% atm

 

[Aesthetics_III]

10% or death

 

[Chadethnic101]

- Flat stomach + visible abs/outline
- Still looks aesthetic with decent muscle
- Lean face but not super gaunt
- Can still look big in clothes
- Good energy
- Good mood
- Good sex drive
- Good gym performance and pumps
- More flexibility to enjoy life

You can literally just keep cutting to 12% and bulking to 15%. For very special occasions, you could go down to 10% (for a vacation, etc) but it should be temporary as it’s not optimal.

There’s only a very small percentage of men who can maintain 10% or below AND have all the benefits I listed above in regards to having a normal, fulfilled life. Social media has fucked up our bodyfat standards and many of the legit fitness YouTubers agree with that.

I have been obsessing over getting to 10% since 2020- and was only ever able to get to 12%ish poss 13 range- looked decent tbh lower abs were just not very visible.

I agree with you 10% me and you who aren't ectomorphs will ALWAYS struggle to maintain natty
And also my sex drive is not good at all, so even if you can slay you wouldn't be in the mood for it much...

12-15% is ideal tbh 12-13 for most of year putting on muscle
Then maybe closer to 10 for vacations but even then I'll take 12% esp if want to slay abroad etc

 

[Chadethnic101]

Only way to get to 10% and maintain is through a restrictive carnivore/keto diet where there are no carbs.

However realistically who can live life without eating carbs it's too restrictive. Yes I know you don't crave carbs etc but eating out, going holiday makes shit too complicated, you'll develop eating disorder

 

[TsarTsar444]

I have been obsessing over getting to 10% since 2020- and was only ever able to get to 12%ish poss 13 range- looked decent tbh lower abs were just not very visible.

I agree with you 10% me and you who aren't ectomorphs will ALWAYS struggle to maintain natty
And also my sex drive is not good at all, so even if you can slay you wouldn't be in the mood for it much...

12-15% is ideal tbh 12-13 for most of year putting on muscle
Then maybe closer to 10 for vacations but even then I'll take 12% esp if want to slay abroad etc

Being an ecto and being 10% or less you unironically look like a holocaust victim.

Best advice i can tell everyone here what bf level is most ideal is to follow your cravings, eat how much you like, bulking and cutting are both not natural for various reasons and you stated a few already like the sex thing with a cut.

Maybe im just biased with the eat at cravings thing because im an ecto so my natural bf is no more then 14-15%

 

[TsarTsar444]

Only way to get to 10% and maintain is through a restrictive carnivore/keto diet where there are no carbs.

However realistically who can live life without eating carbs it's too restrictive. Yes I know you don't crave carbs etc but eating out, going holiday makes shit too complicated, you'll develop eating disorder

The easiest way to be below 10% is either carnivore or frutarian. Good luck getting fat on only fruits

 

[Lihito]

- Flat stomach + visible abs/outline
- Still looks aesthetic with decent muscle
- Lean face but not super gaunt
- Can still look big in clothes
- Good energy
- Good mood
- Good sex drive
- Good gym performance and pumps
- More flexibility to enjoy life

You can literally just keep cutting to 12% and bulking to 15%. For very special occasions, you could go down to 10% (for a vacation, etc) but it should be temporary as it’s not optimal.

There’s only a very small percentage of men who can maintain 10% or below AND have all the benefits I listed above in regards to having a normal, fulfilled life. Social media has fucked up our bodyfat standards and many of the legit fitness YouTubers agree with that.

I cant even Keep 12% cause of cortisol spikes

 

[Chadethnic101]

The easiest way to be below 10% is either carnivore or frutarian. Good luck getting fat on only fruits

If I just ate fruits I'd go asexual jfl

 

[Chadethnic101]

Being an ecto and being 10% or less you unironically look like a holocaust victim.

Best advice i can tell everyone here what bf level is most ideal is to follow your cravings, eat how much you like, bulking and cutting are both not natural for various reasons and you stated a few already like the sex thing with a cut.

Maybe im just biased with the eat at cravings thing because im an ecto so my natural bf is no more then 14-15%

Yea I wasted years actively avoiding women coz I thought my bf was too high at 13-15% lmao

Wish I realised sooner. I thought I could be those insta fitness model but natty JFL

 

[Smoke Fanboy]

What is best way to find out your bf%?

 

[TsarTsar444]

Yea I wasted years actively avoiding women coz I thought my bf was too high at 13-15% lmao

Wish I realised sooner. I thought I could be those insta fitness model but natty JFL

I permanently destroyed my gut 2 years ago from bulking even though my body was clearly not wanting to gain anymore wieght, and now i have leaky gut, ibd, ibs, sibo

And this year i did a hardcore cut and went to 8-9% bf and destroyed my hormonal system, now im back to 14% and still haven't recovered my libido like it once was before the cut

 

[Chadethnic101]

I permanently destroyed my gut 2 years ago from bulking even though my body was clearly not wanting to gain anymore wieght, and now i have leaky gut, ibd, ibs, sibo

And this year i did a hardcore cut and went to 8-9% bf and destroyed my hormonal system, now im back to 14% and still haven't recovered my libido like it once was before the cut

View attachment 1611887

Damn man, hopefully few more months it goes back to normal hopefully?
If not maybe go doctor not sure how old you are bro

Yeah when I hit 12% I will probably stop and try maintain up the food slot then eventually go for a lean bulk for 6 months or so, I never want to 'diet' or eat at a deficit again after this esp as it'll fuck my sex drive up permanently probs

 

[TsarTsar444]

Damn man, hopefully few more months it goes back to normal hopefully?
If not maybe go doctor not sure how old you are bro

Yeah when I hit 12% I will probably stop and try maintain up the food slot then eventually go for a lean bulk for 6 months or so, I never want to 'diet' or eat at a deficit again after this esp as it'll fuck my sex drive up permanently probs

Im ready at a stage of my bulk where i don't want to eat anymore, absolutely cagefuel how my yo-yo dieting journey went, from being a starving holocaust victim back in November to barely being able to eat now

The most brutal blackpill for me to swallow is humans are naturally suppose to size mog from bones and naturally large muscle bellies, not from fat or artificial gymceling

 

[JamesHowlett]

I cant even Keep 12% cause of cortisol spikes

*I can’t even keep 12% cause of calories

 

[JamesHowlett]

I have been obsessing over getting to 10% since 2020- and was only ever able to get to 12%ish poss 13 range- looked decent tbh lower abs were just not very visible.

I agree with you 10% me and you who aren't ectomorphs will ALWAYS struggle to maintain natty
And also my sex drive is not good at all, so even if you can slay you wouldn't be in the mood for it much...

12-15% is ideal tbh 12-13 for most of year putting on muscle
Then maybe closer to 10 for vacations but even then I'll take 12% esp if want to slay abroad etc

Yup if you aren’t naturally skinny, like during childhood, you can’t get to 10% in adulthood AND feel good.

12-15% would still be enough to have a flat stomach and then just focus on muscle

In terms of attracting women flat stomach is deffo enough, you don’t NEED a defined 6 pack

 

[JamesHowlett]

10% or death

For most men that equates to “be miserable or death”.

 

[Chadethnic101]

Yup if you aren’t naturally skinny, like during childhood, you can’t get to 10% in adulthood AND feel good.

12-15% would still be enough to have a flat stomach and then just focus on muscle

In terms of attracting women flat stomach is deffo enough, you don’t NEED abs.

Yes I was chubby through childhood so I've finally accepted it's best for me to not try and maintain such a condition natty
If I could maintain solid sex drive and testosterone then I would, but I can't.

However I do get paranoid if my abs aren't showing a little around women but it's more mental I guess

I'd like my upper 4 and lowers to be slightly visible

A level of leanness like this I'd love to maintain most of year

 

[ItsOverCel]

I eat 3-3.5k cals to maintain 12% bf and I have to eat more than 4k to bulk and get to 15% bf. And that sucks because despite eating a lot I hardly gain any muscle. Also when eating that much you will inevitably get bloated even without gaining fat so thats really bad

 

[Deleted member 18313]

Best advice i can tell everyone here what bf level is most ideal is to follow your cravings, eat how much you like, bulking and cutting are both not natural for various reasons and you stated a few already like the sex thing with a cut.

Isn't building muscle not natural too in a certain sense? Your body doesn't want to build muscle because it wants to keep your metabolic rate low(optimal for survival) so you kinda have to fight against it and force feed to a degree

 

[Chadethnic101]

Is this 12%? This was me before lockdown, been trying to get back to this level ever since, I'd like to maintain this level all year ideally

 

[Chadethnic101]

Isn't building muscle not natural too in a certain sense? Your body doesn't want to build muscle because it wants to keep your metabolic rate low(optimal for survival) so you kinda have to fight against it and force feed to a degree

If you are an ecto yes like @TsarTsar444

If you aren't like I can put weight on easy and probably build muscle on only 2500 calories for a good few months before changing

 

[Deleted member 18313]

If you are an ecto yes like @TsarTsar444

If you aren't like I can put weight on easy and probably build muscle on only 2500 calories for a good few months before changing

I meant it both ways, forced undereat if you are endo and want to lose weight and forcefeed if ecto and want to gain.
Its not about metabolism either as most people think(the difference is 200cal on both ends max) it probably due to higher leptin in ectos and higher ghrelin in endos.

 

[TsarTsar444]

Isn't building muscle not natural too in a certain sense? Your body doesn't want to build muscle because it wants to keep your metabolic rate low(optimal for survival) so you kinda have to fight against it and force feed to a degree

For an ecto at least it isnt natural, ectos are supposed to have a high meat diet and excell in endurance, ectos naturally should look somewhat muscular shirtless and slim with slim face. Humans are naturally meant to be shirtless, or at least in tanktop like clothes. Like those african tribesmen

 

[ItsOverCel]

If you are an ecto yes like @TsarTsar444

If you aren't like I can put weight on easy and probably build muscle on only 2500 calories for a good few months before changing

Chad
I will auschwitzmaxx if I eat 2500 cals a day

 

[JamesHowlett]

I eat 3-3.5k cals to maintain 12% bf and I have to eat more than 4k to bulk and get to 15% bf. And that sucks because despite eating a lot I hardly gain any muscle. Also when eating that much you will inevitably get bloated even without gaining fat so thats really bad

You’ve got naturally skinny genetics then, better than naturally fat genetics lol

 

[JamesHowlett]

Is this 12%? This was me before lockdown, been trying to get back to this level ever since, I'd like to maintain this level all year ideally

I’d be sooooo happy with that bf%

 

[JamesHowlett]

Yes I was chubby through childhood so I've finally accepted it's best for me to not try and maintain such a condition natty
If I could maintain solid sex drive and testosterone then I would, but I can't.

However I do get paranoid if my abs aren't showing a little around women but it's more mental I guess

I'd like my upper 4 and lowers to be slightly visible

A level of leanness like this I'd love to maintain most of year

Trust me it’s deffo mental, there is no significant reason to have abs but be miserable instead of having a flat stomach and being happy. If you have big muscles everywhere else like shoulders and arms I’d argue girls would be more impressed with that vs abs

Your bf% before lockdown is great, I’d get back to that then focus on muscle

 

[ItsOverCel]

You’ve got naturally skinny genetics then, better than naturally fat genetics lol

the main cons of such genetics is that the amount of food I have to eat to maintain my muscle bloats me and causes acne, because I eat shit tons of carbs to hit my calories and don't let the scale go down

 

[Chadethnic101]

I’d be sooooo happy with that bf%

Thanks man but I'm not at this bf atm, trying to get back to it and will probs try maintain it for a good month to keep it long term

Realised if I don't maintain it now I'll probably never be lean ffs

 

[Chadethnic101]

the main cons of such genetics is that the amount of food I have to eat to maintain my muscle bloats me and causes acne, because I eat shit tons of carbs to hit my calories and don't let the scale go down

Yeah plus if you have a busy day then you have less time to eat

Must be annoying tbh

 

[JamesHowlett]

the main cons of such genetics is that the amount of food I have to eat to maintain my muscle bloats me and causes acne, because I eat shit tons of carbs to hit my calories and don't let the scale go down

Yeah that’s true, I have a friend in the same situation. What are your macros? Also maybe try lowering your activity outside weight training.

 

[reputation]

pump doesn't matter in muscle building

- Flat stomach + visible abs/outline
- Still looks aesthetic with decent muscle
- Lean face but not super gaunt
- Can still look big in clothes
- Good energy
- Good mood
- Good sex drive
- Good gym performance and pumps
- More flexibility to enjoy life

You can literally just keep cutting to 12% and bulking to 15%. For very special occasions, you could go down to 10% (for a vacation, etc) but it should be temporary as it’s not optimal.

There’s only a very small percentage of men who can maintain 10% or below AND have all the benefits I listed above in regards to having a normal, fulfilled life. Social media has fucked up our bodyfat standards and many of the legit fitness YouTubers agree with that.

 

[JamesHowlett]

pump doesn't matter in muscle building

It does actually have some minor benefits, also a good indicator that the muscle is fatigued and it makes you look big + vascular.

Overall it’s a good thing with no downsides so this looks like you’re just nitpicking tbh

 

[Gluteus]

It's optimal in that it's a good balance between looking good and feeling good for most men.

If you're looking to looksmax then there's a good chance that the ideal is closer to 10%, but you either need a good bone structure or 1-2 years of muscle gains to pull it off without looking too skinny.

 

[JamesHowlett]

It's optimal in that it's a good balance between looking good and feeling good for most men.

If you're looking to looksmax then there's a good chance that the ideal is closer to 10%, but you either need a good bone structure or 1-2 years of muscle gains to pull it off without looking too skinny.

I’ve since changed my stance to 10-15% being the best range. A lot of guys wouldn’t be able to comfortably maintain 10% and function optimally.

 

[Deleted member 18418]

low bf did me both good and bad, revealed my good bones, but also my UEE is awful now.

 

[JamesHowlett]

low bf did me both good and bad, revealed my good bones, but also my UEE is awful now.

If UEE was the only downside then I’d say the benefits of low bf% outweight that. Do you look better or worse overall?

 

[Deleted member 18418]

If UEE was the only downside then I’d say the benefits of low bf% outweight that. Do you look better or worse overall?

better overall. bones defintion saves a slightly more UEE obviously

 

[sub5inchcel]

If UEE was the only downside then I’d say the benefits of low bf% outweight that. Do you look better or worse overall?

nvm