LegitUser
Gluttonmaxxed gypsy from the council estate
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Original post : https://incels.is/threads/why-black...d-how-most-incels-are-not-blackpilled.539524/
this isnt my post buts its very important and needs to be read by more people so i reposted it on this site from .is
Summary:
Blackpilling Normies always fails.
When Normies try to understand Incels, they never tackle the blackpill itself.
In this thread, we investigate the reasons behind this and shock everyone by exposing
how most incels are just turncoat Tonys, ready to drop the incel moniker in a hearbeat.
Stay Tuned.
1. Introduction: Normies Do Not Understand Us
2. What the Blackpill is
3. What the Blackpill is not
4. Why Normies Fail to Understand Us
5. How a lot of Incels are not Blackpilled
6. Final Thoughts and Doctors Orders
7. Mega.nz link with some goodies
Blurp:
When I first took the blackpill I was excited to know the truth and tried to blackpill people in real life.
All I got was confusion, hostility, gaslighting, social consequences.
I then found out there was a subreddit called r/IncelTear that relentlessly denied the blackpill despite all the evidence.
I watched an IncelTV video someone called Brendio tried to give valid argumentation to the bluepillers he was talking to.
But all they did was mute him and moralfag before kicking him off the stream.
They did not even attempt to make any arguments themselves.
My biggest question was why?
How could they not even engage us when we had so much data on our side?
I've spent the last 5 months or so heavily thinking about this.
There is not much information on why people deny the blackpill so I took it upon myself to find out.
This thread is a collection of information I have come across to make sense of it all.
I hope that this thread gives a good outline to why we get gaslighted about the blackpill.
Thankyou for reading my thoughts.
1. Normies Do Not Understand Us
Baffling to us, Normies always reduce incels and the adjacent blackpill to
a form of rabid emotionalism.
For some reason they reduce the entire subject to Incels being a bunch of angry men.
They act as if incels have no reasons.
(Ironically, they also reduce it to a womans-issue only, thus proving gynocracy exists but I digress)
Even when many of us have tried to expose Normies to the Blackpill.
We linked data, we printed out studies - to no avail.
What is the problem with Normies?
It's clearly not about a lack of good information.
What is happening?
Why are they doing this?
That shall be answered now.
But first, definitions my friends:
2. What the blackpill is:
The blackpill is a body of value-neutral data-points derived from academic research, historical sources and anecdotes.
These findings highlight certain behaviors of both genders.
Since the information is value neutral, meaning it contains no value judgements about women or men,
there is no reason to ascribe any attributes to it, i.e. "nihilstic," "fatalistic," "self-loathing," "mysognistic," etc.
That's it. That's the blackpill.
3. What the blackpill is not:
- It is not an ideology.
- It is not connected to emotions.
- It does not make any value-judgements about either gender (not that it could, it has no personhood).
- The blackpill is not a fatalistic belief system, dreamt up by disatisfied men that hoped for more in life.
In fact, the blackpill is fit for marriage with any worldview whatsoever.
For example, a Christian worldview could easily incorporate the blackpill by simply explaining human behavior
as corrupted by the fall of man in Genesis.
This would be a negative interpretation, suffice to say.
A scientist could incorporate the blackpill into evolutionary psychology.
This would be a neutral take.
What about a postive interpration?
Yes, it is possible!
From the perspective of someone who profits of the blackpill, it is absolutely beautiful my friends!
Imagine a psychopath, or the powers that be... or a marketing agent perhaps...
They would ADORE the blackpill! It would make their life so much easier!
Maybe it has already...
You see friends, my point is this: The blackpill is just this: Nothing.
It pertains to be nothing, it judges not, it holds nobody accountable.
So the question remains: Why is it portrait as such when Normies engage with Incels?
4. Why Normies Fail to Understand Us
Morality.
It's morality.
Note, I am not saying any party involved is morally superior or inferior.
That is not the argument I am making.
No, I think the problem is the worldview and resulting value judgements of Normies compared to the average incel.
We simply value completely different things and thus interpret everything differently.
Women and Normies interpretation of reality breaks down to self-benefit.
Everything is evaluated first by one criteria:
"Does it benefit me?"
If not, it has no value.
This is also how propaganda works.
You just frame things so normies think it benefits them.
"Your rights to do xyz are being taken away."
Suddenly people care about things they did not even know existed a moment ago.
Here are some common observable normie tropes with this pattern:
a) "You are not entitled to anything."
This is simply logically fallacious. If the statement holds universally true then the person making it would not be entitled
to making it. Are you entitled to your opinion? It is self refuting.
However, this is not why they say it. It does not come from a logical place.
It's a form of violence. They are basically saying, "fuck you, take it up the ass and shut up."
It's a form of might is right. If something benefits them they feel they deserve it and you are not to critize them for that.
If you anyone wants to study up further on this, here are some interesting things to look into:
b) "That's none of your business."
Ditto. Is it your business to tell me that? What my business is, is none your business. It's circular reasoning when applied consistently.
c) "If you don't do xzy you are a bad person"
"If you don't give money to soup kitchens, you hate poor people."
"If you say something I don't like about women, you hate women."
They don't care about poor people, it's manipulation.
As an autist, it took me years to understand this. I am 26 years old and I still struggle
with people not saying what they mean.
Their verbal output is not indentical to their internal monologue.
However, we can approximate based on their actions.
One example of this that we already mentioned is that normies defend things that benefit them as if they are moral goods.
If it benefits them, them they win in their own head, and because they win (benefit), they verbally express that its "valuable."
But this does not mean it's actually good in their eyes. It just means it benefits them.
Acting Good = Being Good.
"Anything that benefits me is good."
With women in particular this goes as far as "not being punished = being rewarded."
This is also why the predominant female power fantasy in movies is playing the villian and getting away with it.
In the recent hitshow "Fleabag," beloved by women, the POV main character is a essentially
a narcisstic psycho who treats people in her life as objects, especially men.
For instance, she is aroused by a priest and simply lables him "hot priest."
This is how women actually see people. Utilities.
Even Chad is only viewed as a utility - "hot guy."
Suffice to say, by the end of the show the evil main foid just walks off, no punishment, no consequences.
Art imitates life.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSAJEXZIrvA
Scientifically this has been noted prior by people like Kohlberg
(shoutout to @Cybersex is our hope who first made me aware of this with his thread ):
Please look at the above picture.
Kohlberg tried to quantify morality in a model.
Most people are stuck on the lower 1-3 levels, especially women.
Everything is about self-benefit and punishment reward.
You know how kids go through that annoying phase where they pester their parens with questions?
That phase never stops.
Grown people still turn to authority figures for all questions in life.
That's where they get their morality from.
They test boundaries, like kids. If they don't get punished, they feel a rush.
Nothing changes since childhood.
It's just more subtle.
One example from Nazi Germany:
Most germans did not care about Nazi ideology. Not surprising since most people back then
had like a 6th grade education and began working at 14.
So how did the Nazis activate Normies to support the war effort?
By framing the entire thing through the lense of self-benefit.
Fear in particular.
Just like during the american civil war, most people fighting probably were not ideologically motivated.
Some feared for their homes, some probably thought the army was a great deal.
A lot of guys also said the uniform seemed to attracted bitches, so they joined.
The Nazi Flag is a good example.
It's symbolism escapes most people nowadays, so let me explain:
The red literally is meant to symbolize Communism.
Communism surrounds a small group of Nazis, allmost swallowing them.
Most germans fought because they feared a communist takeover.
You can only manipulate people by appealing to base instincts.
As Edward Bernays wrote in "Propaganda:"
PROPAGANDA By EDWARD L. BERNAYS. 1928. CONTENTS I. ORGANIZING CHAOS .................................................. 9. II. THE NEW PROPAGANDA ............................................ 19. III. THE NEW PROPAGANDISTS. 32. IV. THE PSYCHOLOGY OF PUBLIC RELATIONS. 47. V. BUSINESS AND THE...
What he is getting at is that the Propagandist can not create new instincts in people.
It can only appeal to existing ones by attacking or arousing them.
For example, the attacking principle is mostly used on men:
Whereas the arousing principle is mostly used on women.
That's why most products nowadays have cartoon characters on them and why 80-90% of customer purchases are done by women.
Charles Manson is another example.
All the foids that he "manipulated" talk about him like he was this high IQ genius.
Meanwhile his male friend had this to say about him:
https://www.villagevoice.com/troy-donahue-explains-charlie-mansons-appeal-his-cock/
Just lol.
Going back to Kohlberg and Normies simplistic "might-is-right" worldview:
If someone is on a certain stage of moral development, then they project that you are on that level as well.
Incels are the only group that critiques itself due to operating mostly on the higher, principle-based stage of moral development.
In research, this is conflated as incels being "self-loathing." In reality, it's just being realistic.
Again, they are applying value judgements to the blackpill.
The value judgement that the blackpill is "self-loathing," "depressing," etc... comes from a worldview
that presupposes that certain things are morally negative. These values are not inherent to the blackpill at all.
To give one example, look at this footnote from a paper on incels:
Source:
The Sense in Senseless Violence: Male Reproductive Strategy and the Modern Sexual Marketplace as Contributors to Violent Extremism
- supremacy (value judgement)
- hatred (value judgement)
- entitlement (value judgement)
None of this has anything to do with the blackpill.
All of these are presuppositions that come from a very specific worldview that interprets data
in a very specific way. They are not "brute facts" at all.
Humans project their worldview onto other people.
"We don't see the world as it is, but as we are."
The blackpill has nothing to do with value judgments at all. As I said earlier, the blackpill can be outright
invigorating if your worldview interprets it that way.
When we understand this, it becomes clear that it's not Normies fault that they cant be blackpilled.
They dont have the reasoning for it, or rather, their biased self serving worldview simply does not allow certain kind of evidences, because these evidences contradict their unfounded moral pre-suppositions.
We project a sense of justice on normies that doesnt exist
Its not their fault, they just cant think beyond their biased Worldview.
At 32:08 in this clip, known CIA asset and also-happens-to-be-a-famous-writer Kurt Vonnegut
explains how he made the same experience working as an anthropologist:
View: https://youtu.be/eLwe-EFUF-A?t=1928
This is why its impossible to blackpill normies.
From their perspective, where everything is group-dynamics, power-struggles, might-is-right,
When you show them the blackpill, you are asking them to support a group of males viewed as evil, over ALL women. That includes their sisters, cousins, mother, aunts, wives, girlfriends, female friends.
In reality, you are not asking them to support anything though.
It's simply too much too ask. In order to understand the blackpill, you need to put aside bias, self interest etc.
"It's the hallmark of intelligence to be able to entertain a thought without being consumed by it."
- Some greek faggot
This is also why women deny the blackpill despite obviously knowing about it (obsessed with looks, make up etc).
It does not benefit them to give away their tricks.
Chaps, I can't get into it but I would highly encourage reading the original Milgram Experiment text.
View and download Stanley Milgram - Obedience to Authority_ An Experimental View-Tavistock Publications Ltd (1974).pdf on DocDroid
They basically made people shock someone to death with a little push of authority.
And most normies went along with it, for the reasons I mentioned (lower morality - a priest for example did not go along with it, go figure).
Basically, everything is subjugated to "benefit or no benefit?"
Lying? Fine, as long as you benefit.
Ignoring or Misrepresenting Evidence? Fine, as long as you benefit.
Everything in their worldview is reduced to utility to the self.
If it does not benefit them, it is useless.
The reason why they don't acknowledge the blackpill when talking about Incels has nothing to do with
- them not getting the blackpill (they do, evidence later)
- them not understanding incels plight
- they don't benefit from agreeing with incels, so they dont
It's about warfare. They project that we use knowledge the same way they do: As a weapon to benefit ourselves.
We don't. Or at least not all of us. I will call you guys out later
Normies break everything down to a power-struggle.
Punishment vs. Reward.
Victim vs. Opressor.
So from their perspective, the blackpill is...
-> A bunch of shit a bunch of angry men say to get their way.
This is where all their claims come from
- "incels only want stacies"
- "incels are entitled"
- "incels are violent"
None of this shit has anything to do with the blackpill.
They are projecting their infantile "might-is-right" morality onto a dataset that has nothing to do with morality at all.
If we go by what Kohlberg illustrated, many people may not even be capable of surpassing this kind of thinking.
They literally believe we only care about the blackpill because it benefits us.
So they jump to the conclusion, "well, this is all about getting what you want anyway" -> "incels are entitled"
This goes into another thing they do: Intentional display.
I said prior, they think acting like a good person = being a good person.
Just imagine a child thinking its good because it follows its parents instructions.
Newsflash: You are not good for acting good. Nobody can act agains their own will, ALL actions are self-serving.
If the children comparison seems derogatory to you, you have learned nothing up to this point.
(pshht, its only derogatory if you dont get what im saying about how worldviews shape value judgements - you only think its derogatory because you think children are retarded and you dont value them OH NOOO YOU DONT WANT TO THINK THAT DO YOU? BAD BAAD)
This is devastating friends, because it means that we will never, and I mean never, be able to argue with Normies
on a logical basis. Everything we say will be judged through the lense of "victim vs opressor"
or rather
- the messenger will always judged insead of the message
- they look for the "why" not for the "what" (as in "why are incels saying this" not for "what are incels actually saying")
Their worldview simply does not allow for any other outlook.
And if your worldview only permits evidences which prove what you want to believe,
then arguing is pointless.
By this we can deduce that, anyone who claims the blackpill is an ideology exposes themselves as biased, and, you knowk, actually having an ideology.
For instance, if someone sees a datapoint about women or men they don't like, that does not mean the blackpill or incels
are evil or nihilstic.
It just means the datapoint does not jive with their worldview and how they interpret human behavior.
This principle of power superseeding even elementary logic can be seen elsewhere as well.
Take the current israel-hamas conflict.
Most normies couldn't show you Gaza on a map a few day ago.
Suddenly they care about this shit. In a few months, it will be like it never happened. Remember my words.
They only care because right now, virtue signalling about this distant conflict benefits them
"Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia."
Same for Covid, which essentially only existed in the media.
Ukraine, same shit.
People have already forgotten about Ukraine lmao.
People don't really care about any of this. They care about benefitting themselves.
Studies have shown that virtue signalling about shit like this
is actually indicative of dark triad personality traits.
We investigate the consequences and predictors of emitting signals of victimhood and virtue. In our first three studies, we show that the virtuous victim signal can facilitate nonreciprocal resource transfer from others to the signaler. Next, we develop and validate a victim signaling scale that...
One of the most krass examples is children.
Society simply does not value children, or there would be no need for orphanages.
All the children would be off the market already.
It's simple market economics. If children were a sought after commodity, they would be sold out.
And in our case, the classic example would be how they always, unfailingly, reduce the entire subject to
"women most affected."They think catering to foids benefits them.
They look at neutral datapoints and conclude with retarded certainity: "This is about women."
It's not. It's not about shit. It's not about anything.
You could easily look at the same blackpills and conclude that most men are retarded
mentally ill fuckshits that are spending billions of shekles on pictures of naked women.
But they don't draw that conclusion, do they?
Exactly.
Your worldview shapes how you interpret reality.
The blackpill is basically a massive Rorschach test.
What do you see in the inkblobs Johnny?
Do you see a bunch of inkblobs (reality) or do you see a woman getting hurt and you dont like that (bias)?
This is why you can not argue with them.
When you talk to normies, you are not debating facts, you are debating paradigms.
Worldviews.
Entire systems of thought.
They don't process information like incels.
To illustrate how it's all just self benefit, look at these examples in which they:
- acknowledge mens plight
- acknowledge lookism
- advocate for actual solutions to these
Basically they admit key points of the blackpill.
Yet when talking to us, they reject them. How come?
a) Yvetlana Vasin
View: https://medium.com/hello-love/stop-saying-looks-dont-matter-7d48d07eea93
Writer.
Openly admits looks matter. Seemingly understand blackpill.
But then you look her up and she runs this match-making service
to sell trophy hoes to trad-copers in the west:
Meet genuine ladies who are looking for love. Register NOW for free and start browsing the profiles of potential partners here at St. Petersburg Women.
saint-petersburg-women.com
So she literally knows that looks matter, but she only uses that konwledge to benefit herself.
Again, they admit looks matter, if it benefits them.
b) STRANGE ÆONS
Shits on incels:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJvDMKsy8D8
Then gets a nosejob (lookism):
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUbsaPeLWGU
c) Various Looks-Surgery or "rate-me" related subreddits
On all of these subreddits, you see way more women than men.
The women are getting way more attention.
And on the surgery subreddits, the men are gaslight about their looks
while people literally encourage women to get surgeries.
Again, if it benefits them somehow, they absolutely support the blackpill.
Women are hypocrites. This is warfare to them.
The reason why they don't admit we are right is because their worldview inherently
is anti-male.
Although it might seem that men are catching up quickly, when it comes to having plastic surgery, this is still a woman’s game by a very large margin. The American Society of Plastic Surgeons (ASPS) reveals from its 2014 plastic surgery statistics that women accounted for 92% of all cosmetic...
d) QOVESStudio
https://www.youtube.com/@QOVESStudio
Youtube channel with 500k subs talking exclusively about lookism.
Comments often talk about how looks affect life.
If we make these points, we are ridiculed though.
e) Ugly deformed kids getting surgery.
Whenever you see some report or gofuckme with a child that got mauled
by a pitbull or something, people violently scream for jutsice and point out
how the looks of the child will negatively affect it - "i hope he gets surgery
and gets to live a normal life."
So looks suddenly matter?
f) Female Spending
Going away from lookism a bit here.
In my opinion, you can literally explain the entire blackpill just by using
market economics. Things like skewed gender-ratios have a tremendous impact on society.
Take for instance the fact that women make 80-90% of customer purchases alone.
"Women were responsible for 75-85% of consumer spending in the 1930s."
This guide explores primary and secondary sources that examine the advertising industry from 1929 to 1933, including advertising agencies, consumer protection groups, and topical sources on gender, race, and radio in advertising.
guides.loc.gov
"Women make up more than half of the U.S. population, and control or influence 85% of consumer spending"
Women control over $20 trillion in world-wide spending. Learn more about the purchasing power of women, from Millennials to Baby Boomers, in various markets
This is devastating.
It means that women get almost half the money they own from men.
It means that women are probably hiding money from their partners.
It means that women are extremely shallow and materialistic, while guys predominately value women
over material goods.
This is a brutal pill and reflects extremely negatively on women, if your worldview is bluepilled.
However, because of the current culture, this seen as positive by normies.
Just look at the "girlpowermarketing" link above. It's in the name. "Girl Power."
So this seemingly horrific exposure of female nature suddenly becomes morally good, because context.
g) Female Sexual liberation
This one is kind of a funny double standard:
"Women are sexually liberated" - YAY!
"You're mom is a hoe that got bukkaked on camera." - NOOOOOOO
The cognitivie dissonance is very funny to me.
You see this with tradcopers and redpillers a lot.
One one hand they advocate for plowing through as many hoes as possible.
But then they tell you "just find a good wife bro."
Hilarious.
So please, why do they so readily agree with our points as long as its not us making them?
You should be able to answer that at this point.
It was nothing to do with the blackpill.
They disagree with us not because they think the blackpill is wrong, but because WE are wrong.
The messenger is the message.
Its warfare. They literally think incels are trying to mog them by flexing the blackpills as a tool for their own ends.
Its that stupid.
When the blackpill benefits them, they use it.
They simply cant grasp that there are mind-independent things in the world
that exist outside of some monkey-brained retarded using them for personal gain.
Everything is personal gain for them.
If we re-framed the entire blackpill to fit Normies worldview,
they would be campaigining to put it into legislature right now.
I am not exaggerating.
Now, children of the sun, I must critique you tsk tsk.
5. How most Incels are not Blackpilled
Many of us are guilty of exactly the same shit I just talked about.
To illustrate:
Incels fall into two categories:
a) The smart ones:
The ones that get the above points on a philosophical level.
I would count people like @WorthlessSlavicShit and @Atavistic Autist among them.
They are mostly interested in information hoarding and research.
I would call these "consistent" incels, as you could reasonably convince them of anything
as long as your points are valid.
b) The dummies:
These are the ones that gives us a bad name.
They operate exactly like normies do. Might is right, self benefit to the max. To them, the blackpill is inconsequential. It does not even matter.
This is more incels than you would think, unfortunately.
Shocking: Normies attitude towards us IS TRUE - when applied to this group.
These are the droves of greycels that wash up on our shores and then disappear within a few months.
These are the dregs of this forum. They engage in loud displays to signal their bonobo group-adherence to the tribe.
They are ones causing constant in-fighting and witchhunts.
They are the ones that are not even blackpilled and will probably get buxxed in the next 20 years.
If "It's just a phase mom" was a person, it would be them.
View: https://youtu.be/dhEfIdXxRuk?t=1032
In this clip, Naama kates, whos been with groups spying on us for years now,
makes this superficially unbelievable assertion:
Most incels leave the blackpill, get buxxed and move on.
When I first heard this it boggled my mind.
How tf can you move on from an observation like "women are 80% of customers?"
I was projecting friends.
Most greycels, most incels are not even blackpilled.
They come here, thinking this is some edgelord shit and then they act the fool to compete for rank in the
hiearchy here. Once it gets boring they move on.
Normiecels are the scourge of incels and give us a bad rep.
In my "Masculinity is a social construct" thread I laid out
how male in-fighting is the norm and how its encouraged by women.
"You're not a real woman!" Said no one ever. Why? Why does that only work on men? The answer is two-fold 1. women have inherent value, you can't loose your woman card because being a woman is synonymous with having female flesh. 2. masculinity as its propagated by women and society largely...
We are not immune to this.
There is constant fighting on this forum.
Guys, women operate as a very dense hivemind with tentacles everywhere.
They are like a kraken with manifold arms, a beast of immeasurable proportions.
You. Can. Not. Win.
The constant male on male violence we observe on these forums
is literally exactly whats happening in society and why men cant get a foothold against women.
Men compete with men and worship women = 99% of niggas on this forum.
The only people that are fully excempt from this is a handful of autistic niggas
that spend years digging through research papers and other shit
instead of bickering and witchunting on here.
I wish people spend more time actually researching.
One counter to this that will be made: "The blackpill is complete, there is no new data to be found."
This is a hypercope.
It reminds of when people in 1900 literally claimed everything that could be invented had already been invented.
source:
The blackpill is not restricted to looks and dating.
- looks = health
- health = nutrition + genetics
- nutrition + health + genetics = global politics (government food recommendatiosn deliberately fucking up populations)
- global polictics = jewpill, new world order whatever
- politics = philosophy
- philosohpy = argumentation, worldviews, sound reasoning
- etc.
everything intersects and connects and the ride never ends.
If you want to come to the fullness of truth, you have to keep learning.
The reason why a lot of incels will not go down that path is because they are normies.
They will move on. They think it doesn't benefit them to dig deeper.
There is so much we could talk about, so much.
We are men, all of us have cool shit to say.
Instead I see retards getting angry because some dude said something mean in a thread.
If it was a foid many of you would simp.
Shame on you!
You should stop fighting and competing with other men.
Especially on this forum.
You never see women do that shit. They are above that with their insane in group preference.
Another thing to consider:
- Normies and Psychologists want the blackpill to become an actual ideology because its easier to control
- They want to hijack the negative parts of male nature (hyper-competitive, bickering, infighting) against us
To that End, they constantly discourage actual research and high-trust actions on these forums.
If you attack other men on here or IRL, you are no better than women and normie men,
that constantly encourage male on male aggression and competition.
6. Final Thoughts and Doctors Orders:
I hope I could illustrate why its impossible for Normies to be blackpilled.
And also, why many incels are not really blackpilled.
Honestly, black pillers and blue pillers just shouldnt talk to eachother, as communication is not possible
Women will NEVER say that looks matter unless it benefits them somehow.
And the final pill for today:
If people were capable of understanding these problems they would have already been fixed.
If there was a solution, there would be no market.
@WorthlessSlavicShit
@wasted12years
@Atavistic Autist
@NorthernWind
@Antorian
@telamon
@lifefuel
7. Mega.nz link with some goodies
mega.nz file with some of the stuff mentioned in thread (books, videos):
this isnt my post buts its very important and needs to be read by more people so i reposted it on this site from .is
Summary:
Blackpilling Normies always fails.
When Normies try to understand Incels, they never tackle the blackpill itself.
In this thread, we investigate the reasons behind this and shock everyone by exposing
how most incels are just turncoat Tonys, ready to drop the incel moniker in a hearbeat.
Stay Tuned.
1. Introduction: Normies Do Not Understand Us
2. What the Blackpill is
3. What the Blackpill is not
4. Why Normies Fail to Understand Us
5. How a lot of Incels are not Blackpilled
6. Final Thoughts and Doctors Orders
7. Mega.nz link with some goodies
Blurp:
When I first took the blackpill I was excited to know the truth and tried to blackpill people in real life.
All I got was confusion, hostility, gaslighting, social consequences.
I then found out there was a subreddit called r/IncelTear that relentlessly denied the blackpill despite all the evidence.
I watched an IncelTV video someone called Brendio tried to give valid argumentation to the bluepillers he was talking to.
But all they did was mute him and moralfag before kicking him off the stream.
They did not even attempt to make any arguments themselves.
My biggest question was why?
How could they not even engage us when we had so much data on our side?
I've spent the last 5 months or so heavily thinking about this.
There is not much information on why people deny the blackpill so I took it upon myself to find out.
This thread is a collection of information I have come across to make sense of it all.
I hope that this thread gives a good outline to why we get gaslighted about the blackpill.
Thankyou for reading my thoughts.
1. Normies Do Not Understand Us
Baffling to us, Normies always reduce incels and the adjacent blackpill to
a form of rabid emotionalism.
For some reason they reduce the entire subject to Incels being a bunch of angry men.
They act as if incels have no reasons.
(Ironically, they also reduce it to a womans-issue only, thus proving gynocracy exists but I digress)
Even when many of us have tried to expose Normies to the Blackpill.
We linked data, we printed out studies - to no avail.
What is the problem with Normies?
It's clearly not about a lack of good information.
What is happening?
Why are they doing this?
That shall be answered now.
But first, definitions my friends:
2. What the blackpill is:
The blackpill is a body of value-neutral data-points derived from academic research, historical sources and anecdotes.
These findings highlight certain behaviors of both genders.
Since the information is value neutral, meaning it contains no value judgements about women or men,
there is no reason to ascribe any attributes to it, i.e. "nihilstic," "fatalistic," "self-loathing," "mysognistic," etc.
That's it. That's the blackpill.
3. What the blackpill is not:
- It is not an ideology.
- It is not connected to emotions.
- It does not make any value-judgements about either gender (not that it could, it has no personhood).
- The blackpill is not a fatalistic belief system, dreamt up by disatisfied men that hoped for more in life.
In fact, the blackpill is fit for marriage with any worldview whatsoever.
For example, a Christian worldview could easily incorporate the blackpill by simply explaining human behavior
as corrupted by the fall of man in Genesis.
This would be a negative interpretation, suffice to say.
A scientist could incorporate the blackpill into evolutionary psychology.
This would be a neutral take.
What about a postive interpration?
Yes, it is possible!
From the perspective of someone who profits of the blackpill, it is absolutely beautiful my friends!
Imagine a psychopath, or the powers that be... or a marketing agent perhaps...
They would ADORE the blackpill! It would make their life so much easier!
Maybe it has already...
You see friends, my point is this: The blackpill is just this: Nothing.
It pertains to be nothing, it judges not, it holds nobody accountable.
So the question remains: Why is it portrait as such when Normies engage with Incels?
4. Why Normies Fail to Understand Us
Morality.
It's morality.
Note, I am not saying any party involved is morally superior or inferior.
That is not the argument I am making.
No, I think the problem is the worldview and resulting value judgements of Normies compared to the average incel.
We simply value completely different things and thus interpret everything differently.
Women and Normies interpretation of reality breaks down to self-benefit.
Everything is evaluated first by one criteria:
"Does it benefit me?"
If not, it has no value.
This is also how propaganda works.
You just frame things so normies think it benefits them.
"Your rights to do xyz are being taken away."
Suddenly people care about things they did not even know existed a moment ago.
Here are some common observable normie tropes with this pattern:
a) "You are not entitled to anything."
This is simply logically fallacious. If the statement holds universally true then the person making it would not be entitled
to making it. Are you entitled to your opinion? It is self refuting.
However, this is not why they say it. It does not come from a logical place.
It's a form of violence. They are basically saying, "fuck you, take it up the ass and shut up."
It's a form of might is right. If something benefits them they feel they deserve it and you are not to critize them for that.
If you anyone wants to study up further on this, here are some interesting things to look into:
Self-serving bias - Wikipedia
Fundamental attribution error - Wikipedia
Depressive realism - Wikipedia
b) "That's none of your business."
Ditto. Is it your business to tell me that? What my business is, is none your business. It's circular reasoning when applied consistently.
c) "If you don't do xzy you are a bad person"
"If you don't give money to soup kitchens, you hate poor people."
"If you say something I don't like about women, you hate women."
They don't care about poor people, it's manipulation.
As an autist, it took me years to understand this. I am 26 years old and I still struggle
with people not saying what they mean.
Their verbal output is not indentical to their internal monologue.
However, we can approximate based on their actions.
One example of this that we already mentioned is that normies defend things that benefit them as if they are moral goods.
If it benefits them, them they win in their own head, and because they win (benefit), they verbally express that its "valuable."
But this does not mean it's actually good in their eyes. It just means it benefits them.
Acting Good = Being Good.
"Anything that benefits me is good."
With women in particular this goes as far as "not being punished = being rewarded."
This is also why the predominant female power fantasy in movies is playing the villian and getting away with it.
In the recent hitshow "Fleabag," beloved by women, the POV main character is a essentially
a narcisstic psycho who treats people in her life as objects, especially men.
For instance, she is aroused by a priest and simply lables him "hot priest."
This is how women actually see people. Utilities.
Even Chad is only viewed as a utility - "hot guy."
Suffice to say, by the end of the show the evil main foid just walks off, no punishment, no consequences.
Art imitates life.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSAJEXZIrvA
Scientifically this has been noted prior by people like Kohlberg
(shoutout to @Cybersex is our hope who first made me aware of this with his thread ):
Please look at the above picture.
Kohlberg tried to quantify morality in a model.
Most people are stuck on the lower 1-3 levels, especially women.
Everything is about self-benefit and punishment reward.
You know how kids go through that annoying phase where they pester their parens with questions?
That phase never stops.
Grown people still turn to authority figures for all questions in life.
That's where they get their morality from.
They test boundaries, like kids. If they don't get punished, they feel a rush.
Nothing changes since childhood.
It's just more subtle.
One example from Nazi Germany:
Most germans did not care about Nazi ideology. Not surprising since most people back then
had like a 6th grade education and began working at 14.
So how did the Nazis activate Normies to support the war effort?
By framing the entire thing through the lense of self-benefit.
Fear in particular.
Just like during the american civil war, most people fighting probably were not ideologically motivated.
Some feared for their homes, some probably thought the army was a great deal.
A lot of guys also said the uniform seemed to attracted bitches, so they joined.
The Nazi Flag is a good example.
It's symbolism escapes most people nowadays, so let me explain:
The red literally is meant to symbolize Communism.
Communism surrounds a small group of Nazis, allmost swallowing them.
Most germans fought because they feared a communist takeover.
You can only manipulate people by appealing to base instincts.
As Edward Bernays wrote in "Propaganda:"
Bernays - Propaganda.pdf
PROPAGANDA By EDWARD L. BERNAYS. 1928. CONTENTS I. ORGANIZING CHAOS .................................................. 9. II. THE NEW PROPAGANDA ............................................ 19. III. THE NEW PROPAGANDISTS. 32. IV. THE PSYCHOLOGY OF PUBLIC RELATIONS. 47. V. BUSINESS AND THE...
What he is getting at is that the Propagandist can not create new instincts in people.
It can only appeal to existing ones by attacking or arousing them.
For example, the attacking principle is mostly used on men:
Whereas the arousing principle is mostly used on women.
That's why most products nowadays have cartoon characters on them and why 80-90% of customer purchases are done by women.
Charles Manson is another example.
All the foids that he "manipulated" talk about him like he was this high IQ genius.
Meanwhile his male friend had this to say about him:
https://www.villagevoice.com/troy-donahue-explains-charlie-mansons-appeal-his-cock/
Just lol.
Going back to Kohlberg and Normies simplistic "might-is-right" worldview:
If someone is on a certain stage of moral development, then they project that you are on that level as well.
Incels are the only group that critiques itself due to operating mostly on the higher, principle-based stage of moral development.
In research, this is conflated as incels being "self-loathing." In reality, it's just being realistic.
Again, they are applying value judgements to the blackpill.
The value judgement that the blackpill is "self-loathing," "depressing," etc... comes from a worldview
that presupposes that certain things are morally negative. These values are not inherent to the blackpill at all.
To give one example, look at this footnote from a paper on incels:
Source:
The Sense in Senseless Violence: Male Reproductive Strategy and the Modern Sexual Marketplace as Contributors to Violent Extremism
- supremacy (value judgement)
- hatred (value judgement)
- entitlement (value judgement)
None of this has anything to do with the blackpill.
All of these are presuppositions that come from a very specific worldview that interprets data
in a very specific way. They are not "brute facts" at all.
Humans project their worldview onto other people.
"We don't see the world as it is, but as we are."
The blackpill has nothing to do with value judgments at all. As I said earlier, the blackpill can be outright
invigorating if your worldview interprets it that way.
When we understand this, it becomes clear that it's not Normies fault that they cant be blackpilled.
They dont have the reasoning for it, or rather, their biased self serving worldview simply does not allow certain kind of evidences, because these evidences contradict their unfounded moral pre-suppositions.
We project a sense of justice on normies that doesnt exist
Its not their fault, they just cant think beyond their biased Worldview.
At 32:08 in this clip, known CIA asset and also-happens-to-be-a-famous-writer Kurt Vonnegut
explains how he made the same experience working as an anthropologist:
View: https://youtu.be/eLwe-EFUF-A?t=1928
This is why its impossible to blackpill normies.
From their perspective, where everything is group-dynamics, power-struggles, might-is-right,
When you show them the blackpill, you are asking them to support a group of males viewed as evil, over ALL women. That includes their sisters, cousins, mother, aunts, wives, girlfriends, female friends.
In reality, you are not asking them to support anything though.
It's simply too much too ask. In order to understand the blackpill, you need to put aside bias, self interest etc.
"It's the hallmark of intelligence to be able to entertain a thought without being consumed by it."
- Some greek faggot
This is also why women deny the blackpill despite obviously knowing about it (obsessed with looks, make up etc).
It does not benefit them to give away their tricks.
Chaps, I can't get into it but I would highly encourage reading the original Milgram Experiment text.
Stanley Milgram - Obedience to Authority_ An Experimental View-Tavistock Publications Ltd (1974).pdf
View and download Stanley Milgram - Obedience to Authority_ An Experimental View-Tavistock Publications Ltd (1974).pdf on DocDroid
They basically made people shock someone to death with a little push of authority.
And most normies went along with it, for the reasons I mentioned (lower morality - a priest for example did not go along with it, go figure).
Basically, everything is subjugated to "benefit or no benefit?"
Lying? Fine, as long as you benefit.
Ignoring or Misrepresenting Evidence? Fine, as long as you benefit.
Everything in their worldview is reduced to utility to the self.
If it does not benefit them, it is useless.
The reason why they don't acknowledge the blackpill when talking about Incels has nothing to do with
- them not getting the blackpill (they do, evidence later)
- them not understanding incels plight
- they don't benefit from agreeing with incels, so they dont
It's about warfare. They project that we use knowledge the same way they do: As a weapon to benefit ourselves.
We don't. Or at least not all of us. I will call you guys out later
Normies break everything down to a power-struggle.
Punishment vs. Reward.
Victim vs. Opressor.
So from their perspective, the blackpill is...
-> A bunch of shit a bunch of angry men say to get their way.
This is where all their claims come from
- "incels only want stacies"
- "incels are entitled"
- "incels are violent"
None of this shit has anything to do with the blackpill.
They are projecting their infantile "might-is-right" morality onto a dataset that has nothing to do with morality at all.
If we go by what Kohlberg illustrated, many people may not even be capable of surpassing this kind of thinking.
They literally believe we only care about the blackpill because it benefits us.
So they jump to the conclusion, "well, this is all about getting what you want anyway" -> "incels are entitled"
This goes into another thing they do: Intentional display.
I said prior, they think acting like a good person = being a good person.
Just imagine a child thinking its good because it follows its parents instructions.
Newsflash: You are not good for acting good. Nobody can act agains their own will, ALL actions are self-serving.
If the children comparison seems derogatory to you, you have learned nothing up to this point.
(pshht, its only derogatory if you dont get what im saying about how worldviews shape value judgements
- you only think its derogatory because you think children are retarded and you dont value them OH NOOO YOU DONT WANT TO THINK THAT DO YOU? BAD BAAD)This is devastating friends, because it means that we will never, and I mean never, be able to argue with Normies
on a logical basis. Everything we say will be judged through the lense of "victim vs opressor"
or rather
- the messenger will always judged insead of the message
- they look for the "why" not for the "what" (as in "why are incels saying this" not for "what are incels actually saying")
Their worldview simply does not allow for any other outlook.
And if your worldview only permits evidences which prove what you want to believe,
then arguing is pointless.
By this we can deduce that, anyone who claims the blackpill is an ideology exposes themselves as biased, and, you knowk, actually having an ideology.
For instance, if someone sees a datapoint about women or men they don't like, that does not mean the blackpill or incels
are evil or nihilstic.
It just means the datapoint does not jive with their worldview and how they interpret human behavior.
This principle of power superseeding even elementary logic can be seen elsewhere as well.
Take the current israel-hamas conflict.
Most normies couldn't show you Gaza on a map a few day ago.
Suddenly they care about this shit. In a few months, it will be like it never happened. Remember my words.
They only care because right now, virtue signalling about this distant conflict benefits them
"Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia."
Same for Covid, which essentially only existed in the media.
Ukraine, same shit.
People have already forgotten about Ukraine lmao.
People don't really care about any of this. They care about benefitting themselves.
Studies have shown that virtue signalling about shit like this
is actually indicative of dark triad personality traits.
Signaling virtuous victimhood as indicators of Dark Triad personalities - PubMed
We investigate the consequences and predictors of emitting signals of victimhood and virtue. In our first three studies, we show that the virtuous victim signal can facilitate nonreciprocal resource transfer from others to the signaler. Next, we develop and validate a victim signaling scale that...
One of the most krass examples is children.
Society simply does not value children, or there would be no need for orphanages.
All the children would be off the market already.
It's simple market economics. If children were a sought after commodity, they would be sold out.
And in our case, the classic example would be how they always, unfailingly, reduce the entire subject to
"women most affected."They think catering to foids benefits them.
They look at neutral datapoints and conclude with retarded certainity: "This is about women."
It's not. It's not about shit. It's not about anything.
You could easily look at the same blackpills and conclude that most men are retarded
mentally ill fuckshits that are spending billions of shekles on pictures of naked women.
But they don't draw that conclusion, do they?
Exactly.
Your worldview shapes how you interpret reality.
The blackpill is basically a massive Rorschach test.
What do you see in the inkblobs Johnny?
Do you see a bunch of inkblobs (reality) or do you see a woman getting hurt and you dont like that (bias)?
This is why you can not argue with them.
When you talk to normies, you are not debating facts, you are debating paradigms.
Worldviews.
Entire systems of thought.
They don't process information like incels.
To illustrate how it's all just self benefit, look at these examples in which they:
- acknowledge mens plight
- acknowledge lookism
- advocate for actual solutions to these
Basically they admit key points of the blackpill.
Yet when talking to us, they reject them. How come?
a) Yvetlana Vasin
View: https://medium.com/hello-love/stop-saying-looks-dont-matter-7d48d07eea93
Writer.
Openly admits looks matter. Seemingly understand blackpill.
But then you look her up and she runs this match-making service
to sell trophy hoes to trad-copers in the west:
St. Petersburg Women for Marriage | Meet Your Future Bride
Meet genuine ladies who are looking for love. Register NOW for free and start browsing the profiles of potential partners here at St. Petersburg Women.
saint-petersburg-women.com
So she literally knows that looks matter, but she only uses that konwledge to benefit herself.
Again, they admit looks matter, if it benefits them.
b) STRANGE ÆONS
Shits on incels:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJvDMKsy8D8
Then gets a nosejob (lookism):
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUbsaPeLWGU
c) Various Looks-Surgery or "rate-me" related subreddits
Reddit - Dive into anything
On all of these subreddits, you see way more women than men.
The women are getting way more attention.
And on the surgery subreddits, the men are gaslight about their looks
while people literally encourage women to get surgeries.
Again, if it benefits them somehow, they absolutely support the blackpill.
Women are hypocrites. This is warfare to them.
The reason why they don't admit we are right is because their worldview inherently
is anti-male.
Men vs. Women: Plastic Surgery Statistics - Crown Valley Cosmetic Surgery
Although it might seem that men are catching up quickly, when it comes to having plastic surgery, this is still a woman’s game by a very large margin. The American Society of Plastic Surgeons (ASPS) reveals from its 2014 plastic surgery statistics that women accounted for 92% of all cosmetic...
d) QOVESStudio
https://www.youtube.com/@QOVESStudio
Youtube channel with 500k subs talking exclusively about lookism.
Comments often talk about how looks affect life.
If we make these points, we are ridiculed though.
e) Ugly deformed kids getting surgery.
Whenever you see some report or gofuckme with a child that got mauled
by a pitbull or something, people violently scream for jutsice and point out
how the looks of the child will negatively affect it - "i hope he gets surgery
and gets to live a normal life."
So looks suddenly matter?
f) Female Spending
Going away from lookism a bit here.
In my opinion, you can literally explain the entire blackpill just by using
market economics. Things like skewed gender-ratios have a tremendous impact on society.
Take for instance the fact that women make 80-90% of customer purchases alone.
"Women were responsible for 75-85% of consumer spending in the 1930s."
Research Guides: Consumer Advertising During the Great Depression: A Resource Guide: Gender and Advertising
This guide explores primary and secondary sources that examine the advertising industry from 1929 to 1933, including advertising agencies, consumer protection groups, and topical sources on gender, race, and radio in advertising.
guides.loc.gov
"Women make up more than half of the U.S. population, and control or influence 85% of consumer spending"
The Purchasing Power of Women: Statistics | Girlpower Marketing
Women control over $20 trillion in world-wide spending. Learn more about the purchasing power of women, from Millennials to Baby Boomers, in various markets
This is devastating.
It means that women get almost half the money they own from men.
It means that women are probably hiding money from their partners.
It means that women are extremely shallow and materialistic, while guys predominately value women
over material goods.
This is a brutal pill and reflects extremely negatively on women, if your worldview is bluepilled.
However, because of the current culture, this seen as positive by normies.
Just look at the "girlpowermarketing" link above. It's in the name. "Girl Power."
So this seemingly horrific exposure of female nature suddenly becomes morally good, because context.
g) Female Sexual liberation
This one is kind of a funny double standard:
"Women are sexually liberated" - YAY!
"You're mom is a hoe that got bukkaked on camera." - NOOOOOOO
The cognitivie dissonance is very funny to me.
You see this with tradcopers and redpillers a lot.
One one hand they advocate for plowing through as many hoes as possible.
But then they tell you "just find a good wife bro."
Hilarious.
So please, why do they so readily agree with our points as long as its not us making them?
You should be able to answer that at this point.
It was nothing to do with the blackpill.
They disagree with us not because they think the blackpill is wrong, but because WE are wrong.
The messenger is the message.
Its warfare. They literally think incels are trying to mog them by flexing the blackpills as a tool for their own ends.
Its that stupid.
When the blackpill benefits them, they use it.
They simply cant grasp that there are mind-independent things in the world
that exist outside of some monkey-brained retarded using them for personal gain.
Everything is personal gain for them.
If we re-framed the entire blackpill to fit Normies worldview,
they would be campaigining to put it into legislature right now.
I am not exaggerating.
Now, children of the sun, I must critique you tsk tsk.
5. How most Incels are not Blackpilled
Many of us are guilty of exactly the same shit I just talked about.
To illustrate:
Incels fall into two categories:
a) The smart ones:
The ones that get the above points on a philosophical level.
I would count people like @WorthlessSlavicShit and @Atavistic Autist among them.
They are mostly interested in information hoarding and research.
I would call these "consistent" incels, as you could reasonably convince them of anything
as long as your points are valid.
b) The dummies:
These are the ones that gives us a bad name.
They operate exactly like normies do. Might is right, self benefit to the max. To them, the blackpill is inconsequential. It does not even matter.
This is more incels than you would think, unfortunately.
Shocking: Normies attitude towards us IS TRUE - when applied to this group.
These are the droves of greycels that wash up on our shores and then disappear within a few months.
These are the dregs of this forum. They engage in loud displays to signal their bonobo group-adherence to the tribe.
They are ones causing constant in-fighting and witchhunts.
They are the ones that are not even blackpilled and will probably get buxxed in the next 20 years.
If "It's just a phase mom" was a person, it would be them.
View: https://youtu.be/dhEfIdXxRuk?t=1032
In this clip, Naama kates, whos been with groups spying on us for years now,
makes this superficially unbelievable assertion:
Most incels leave the blackpill, get buxxed and move on.
When I first heard this it boggled my mind.
How tf can you move on from an observation like "women are 80% of customers?"
I was projecting friends.
Most greycels, most incels are not even blackpilled.
They come here, thinking this is some edgelord shit and then they act the fool to compete for rank in the
hiearchy here. Once it gets boring they move on.
Normiecels are the scourge of incels and give us a bad rep.
In my "Masculinity is a social construct" thread I laid out
how male in-fighting is the norm and how its encouraged by women.
Masculinity is an actual social construct and More - Studies
"You're not a real woman!" Said no one ever. Why? Why does that only work on men? The answer is two-fold 1. women have inherent value, you can't loose your woman card because being a woman is synonymous with having female flesh. 2. masculinity as its propagated by women and society largely...
We are not immune to this.
There is constant fighting on this forum.
Guys, women operate as a very dense hivemind with tentacles everywhere.
They are like a kraken with manifold arms, a beast of immeasurable proportions.
You. Can. Not. Win.
The constant male on male violence we observe on these forums
is literally exactly whats happening in society and why men cant get a foothold against women.
Men compete with men and worship women = 99% of niggas on this forum.
The only people that are fully excempt from this is a handful of autistic niggas
that spend years digging through research papers and other shit
instead of bickering and witchunting on here.
I wish people spend more time actually researching.
One counter to this that will be made: "The blackpill is complete, there is no new data to be found."
This is a hypercope.
It reminds of when people in 1900 literally claimed everything that could be invented had already been invented.
source:
The blackpill is not restricted to looks and dating.
- looks = health
- health = nutrition + genetics
- nutrition + health + genetics = global politics (government food recommendatiosn deliberately fucking up populations)
- global polictics = jewpill, new world order whatever
- politics = philosophy
- philosohpy = argumentation, worldviews, sound reasoning
- etc.
everything intersects and connects and the ride never ends.
If you want to come to the fullness of truth, you have to keep learning.
The reason why a lot of incels will not go down that path is because they are normies.
They will move on. They think it doesn't benefit them to dig deeper.
There is so much we could talk about, so much.
We are men, all of us have cool shit to say.
Instead I see retards getting angry because some dude said something mean in a thread.
If it was a foid many of you would simp.
Shame on you!
You should stop fighting and competing with other men.
Especially on this forum.
You never see women do that shit. They are above that with their insane in group preference.
Another thing to consider:
- Normies and Psychologists want the blackpill to become an actual ideology because its easier to control
- They want to hijack the negative parts of male nature (hyper-competitive, bickering, infighting) against us
To that End, they constantly discourage actual research and high-trust actions on these forums.
If you attack other men on here or IRL, you are no better than women and normie men,
that constantly encourage male on male aggression and competition.
6. Final Thoughts and Doctors Orders:
I hope I could illustrate why its impossible for Normies to be blackpilled.
And also, why many incels are not really blackpilled.
Honestly, black pillers and blue pillers just shouldnt talk to eachother, as communication is not possible
Women will NEVER say that looks matter unless it benefits them somehow.
And the final pill for today:
If people were capable of understanding these problems they would have already been fixed.
If there was a solution, there would be no market.
@WorthlessSlavicShit
@wasted12years
@Atavistic Autist
@NorthernWind
@Antorian
@telamon
@lifefuel
7. Mega.nz link with some goodies
mega.nz file with some of the stuff mentioned in thread (books, videos):
