Why do people think how recessed/forwardgrown/downgrown a facial profile LOOKS is affected by its rotation in the sagittal plane?

[thecel]

Some people here seem to genuinely perceive the forward growth of a face in the profile view to be different depending on the rotation of the photo or the tilt of the head.

Like a user says someone is recessed and the guy is tilting his head down, and another user tells the first user that he needs to rotate the profile to the Frankfurt plane (Frankfurt plane is the right way to measure. But it shouldn’t affect how forward-grown the face appears to the eye).

For me, 9 times out of 10 if someone is tilting their head up, I can see that it’s tilted upwards, and my brain automatically accounts for the rotation. Likewise for downtilt.

Do some people not perceive side profiles independently of rotation?

 

[anthony111553]

frauding is law

 

[try2beme]

Because the only humans they ever see are chads on their screen

 

[thecel]

I’ll provide examples.

Some .org members would say, “See bro don’t be fooled by head posture. Models tilt up to look more forward-grown!” But to me the down-tilt posed photo does NOT look more recessed than the up-tilt posed photo.

 

[Latinolooksmaxxer]

I mew to fraud jaw

 

[optimisticzoomer]

I’ll provide examples.

View attachment 3195498View attachment 3195499

Some .org members would say, “See bro don’t be fooled by head posture. Models tilt up to look more forward-grown!” But to me the down-tilt posed photo does NOT look more recessed than the up-tilt posed photo.

It does to normies
And this is an extreme example

Most people can't pick up on a subtle head tilt which does fraud slightly

For example this gandy photo is frauding and would look worse if he wasn't

Gandy glazers are crazy. Mf looks MTN in this pic

Legit can't understand how this is supposed to be an ubermodel

looksmax.org

 

[Orc]

most people are too stupid to be able to tell whether a head is in neutral position.

+ it doesn't help that all models are frauding it the same way.

if this red line is flat the face is neutral, it's from the tragus to the bottom of the orbital.

there's some people with strange anatomy that this doesn't work on (i.e abnormal ear tilt or position) but it's correct most of the time.

 

[optimisticzoomer]

most people are too stupid to be able to tell whether a head is in neutral position.

+ it doesn't help that all models are frauding it the same way.

View attachment 3195506View attachment 3195508View attachment 3195510
if this red line is flat the face is neutral, it's from the tragus to the bottom of the orbital.

there's some people with strange anatomy that this doesn't work on (i.e abnormal ear tilt or position) but it's correct most of the time.

You say this yet you've posted side pics of yourself with exactly this issue, which is why u said ur chin projected too much, and I called it out

 

[thecel]

Another example:

happens a lot, people are too retarded to correctly identify forward growth.

they think this is her profile, but it's not.

in reality it's this, which isn't bad, but has no chin projection.

you often see this on models who are down-grown (which is most of them), they just point their chin up and look down so their chin appears to go in a straight line forward, but they don't actually have a 90 degree angle jaw.

I find it weird the idea that you’d have to know what the proper tilt is in order to know how forward-grown someone is. Can’t you visually see how forward-grown someone is, independent of rotation?

“they think this is her profile, but it’s not”
“in reality it’s this”

Yeah but rotating the image doesn’t change how forward-grown she looks. She looks the same amount of forward-grown in the 2 pictures. Do some people not see it this way?

 

[thecel]

You say this yet you've posted side pics of yourself with exactly this issue, which is why u said ur chin projected too much, and I called it out

You said the forehead in the morph I posted is projected too much. Elab?

 

[thecel]

most people are too stupid to be able to tell whether a head is in neutral position.

+ it doesn't help that all models are frauding it the same way.

View attachment 3195506View attachment 3195508View attachment 3195510
if this red line is flat the face is neutral, it's from the tragus to the bottom of the orbital.

there's some people with strange anatomy that this doesn't work on (i.e abnormal ear tilt or position) but it's correct most of the time.

You drew the red lines way too upwardly inclined.

 

[Latinolooksmaxxer]

I’ll provide examples.

View attachment 3195498View attachment 3195499

Some .org members would say, “See bro don’t be fooled by head posture. Models tilt up to look more forward-grown!” But to me the down-tilt posed photo does NOT look more recessed than the up-tilt posed photo.

Great side profile mid front tho (on photo dunno on film)

 

[Orc]

You say this yet you've posted side pics of yourself with exactly this issue, which is why u said ur chin projected too much, and I called it out

I don't ask people to rate my side profile + my anatomy is weird due to a disease that affects bone growth.

You drew the red lines way too upwardly inclined.

the orbital is clearly visible in all.

 

[thecel]

most people are too stupid to be able to tell whether a head is in neutral position.

+ it doesn't help that all models are frauding it the same way.

View attachment 3195506View attachment 3195508View attachment 3195510
if this red line is flat the face is neutral, it's from the tragus to the bottom of the orbital.

there's some people with strange anatomy that this doesn't work on (i.e abnormal ear tilt or position) but it's correct most of the time.

Frankfurt plane crosses the tragion which is above the tragus.

Rotating a profile to the Frankfurt plane shouldn’t make it look like it’s down-tilted.

 

[thecel]

the orbital is clearly visible in all.

No it isn’t. The crease of the eye bag is not always at the level of the infraorbital rim (it isn’t even in most cases).

 

[Orc]

Frankfurt plane crosses the tragion which is above the tragus.

View attachment 3195559View attachment 3195561

Rotating a profile to the Frankfurt plane shouldn’t make it look like it’s down-tilted.

the tragus is that appendage next to the ear hole.

you posted a frankfurt horizontal, it's not the same thing.

 

[thecel]

View attachment 3195570

the tragus is that appendage next to the ear hole.

you posted a frankfurt horizontal, it's not the same thing.

Tragion is a soft tissue approximation for the top of the ear hole of the skull.

Note how the orbitale is a distance below the crease of the eye bag in the 2nd diagram.

 

[Orc]

Tragion is a soft tissue approximation for the top of the ear hole of the skull.

View attachment 3195579
View attachment 3195582

Note how the orbitale is a distance below the crease of the eye bag in the 2nd diagram.

from what I'm reading it seems the frankfurt horizontal is for 3D rendering.

the other is an anatomical reference, in dentistry they use the point on the margin of the auditory meatus which is somewhere in-between.

 

[Deleted member 93012]

Everyone on here tilts their head back, it's annoying.

 

[thecel]

from what I'm reading it seems the frankfurt horizontal is for 3D rendering.

the other is an anatomical reference, in dentistry they use the point on the margin of the auditory meatus which is somewhere in-between.

View attachment 3195589

Frankfurt horizontal, as a pose in 3D, is a face that’s aligned to the Frankfurt plane.

You posted another soft tissue approximation for the ear hole of the skull. Tragus, tragion, and EAM are all approximations for the top of the bone hole.

Based on the diagrams I checked, the tragion is the most accurate soft tissue approximation for the skeletal ear hole.

See this one:

 

[Deleted member 93012]

also what do you think would cause someone to naturally have their head tilted downward, like they're chin tucking? Usually recessed, downgrown people naturally tilt their heads backwards from what I've seen irl.

 

[Orc]

Frankfurt horizontal, as a pose in 3D, is a face that’s aligned to the Frankfurt plane.

You posted another soft tissue approximation for the ear hole of the skull. Tragus, tragion, and EAM are all approximations for the top of the bone hole.

Based on the diagrams I checked, the tragion is the most accurate soft tissue approximation for the skeletal ear hole.

See this one:

View attachment 3195611

all of them look fucked up for me when I do it in the mirror, basically have to tilt my head down and peek through my eyebrows to get it to align, it's probably due to the weird tilt of the ear.

the disease I have is so rare that I can't be used as reference though.

 

[Deleted member 93012]

 

[thecel]

View attachment 3195641

@Orc
this is weird anatomy
can’t use the Frankfurt plane or she’d be looking at the sky jfl

 

[Orc]

@Orc
this is weird anatomy
can’t use the Frankfurt plane or she’d be looking at the sky jfl

yes, unusually high set point of the ear, it's more common than the weird tilt I have.

here's an example of it (not me)

models don't tend to have significant defects, although the position of the orbital is quite variable, using the tilt of the ear is also reliable to find out what the neutral plane of a face is sometimes, but when you do it to people like this they're staring at the floor instead of the sky.