Why do religions claim to give you free will

[Putridgenes]

But the teacher taught the student nevertheless - God didn't put me on this earth with knowledge that he exists.

There was no proof or anything scientific teachings related to him - the analogy is incomparable.

I agree that there is a bigger power - but it just isn't the way that most religions say God exists - I said this before.

Look around you brah. Everything you see hear, your immune system, your body functioning in perfection no human technology could reach. There is knowledge he exists, you just gotta ponder on the world.

 

[androsterone]

do you guys feel tired and have no motivation to do anything and also cant sleep at night :/

 

[Putridgenes]

I added to my comment go re read it again I added a 2nd paragraph

I always debate aggressively with low IQs don’t equate me to other people your dealing with ME and individual let’s keep it at that level plz if you don’t like how I behave then cry

Ok so what if they recount shit from previous lives? You notice how most of them also talk about GOD being the one that did this for them and how those same kids say they went to heaven and met God he read these stories so stfu you absolute idiot

There’s also stories of ppl dying going to heaven and hell etc and coming back and chatting about it as well imagine being able to accept this stuff but not doing basic philosophy which will lead you to the fact that god is necessary and only the Christian god makes sense and can ground all of creation. It’s literally the only way.

If you wanna learn more for ONCE I’ll not be a dick and I’ll treat you as a human because this requires humility on both our ends if your free to learn about it then just ask and I’ll do so. Promise I’ll not be a ass

Lol why the ego brah. Can you explain the trinity to me?

 

[Mainlander]

do you guys feel tired and have no motivation to do anything and also cant sleep at night :/

Go on Nofap

 

[inversions]

Ok so what if they recount shit from previous lives? You notice how most of them also talk about GOD being the one that did this for them and how those same kids say they went to heaven and met God he read these stories so stfu you absolute idiot

I never said I disbelieved in God, if you've read what I've said. My main issue is that God isn't the way he's been portrayed in most religions.

Furthermore, the stories I've seen don't really link or have much memory of a 'God' but instead they just remember what actually happened in their previous lives.

It would be more convincing for me to be in a 'matrix' type of simulation than what you consider.

I always debate aggressively with low IQs

Probably means that you're the low IQ one mate.

There’s also stories of ppl dying going to heaven and hell etc and coming back and chatting about it as well imagine being able to accept this stuff but not doing basic philosophy which will lead you to the fact that god is necessary and only the Christian god makes sense and can ground all of creation. It’s literally the only way.

Yes, but that can be blamed on hallucinations due to their NDE's, on the other hand remembering experiences like that can't really be coincidences.

If you wanna learn more for ONCE I’ll not be a dick and I’ll treat you as a human because this requires humility on both our ends if your free to learn about it then just ask and I’ll do so. Promise I’ll not be a ass

I'm open to learning, sure.

 

[Putridgenes]

do you guys feel tired and have no motivation to do anything and also cant sleep at night :/

Nah brah, i need to go watch a movie with my Mum, im delaying it, lol.

 

[inversions]

Look around you brah. Everything you see hear, your immune system, your body functioning in perfection no human technology could reach. There is knowledge he exists, you just gotta ponder on the world.

I don't doubt existence.

 

[choppedshyt]

Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses – We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through, We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise."
(Qur'an 4:56, Sahih International translation)

This is why I could never get into the Quran man. Anytime I tried religioncelling and opened the Quran every single fucking verse would just be dedicated to describing in gruesome detail how you will be burned in the deepest pits of hell if you don't follow his words. Literally no words of wisdom or anything just kafir kafir kafir

 

[inversions]

This is why I could never get into the Quran man. Anytime I tried religioncelling and opened the Quran every single fucking verse would just be dedicated to describing in gruesome detail how you will be burned in the deepest pits of hell if you don't follow his words. Literally no words of wisdom or anything just kafir kafir kafir

Gruesome imagery to evoke fear - and then they talk about 'All loving'

 

[choppedshyt]

Islam says free will is an illusion. Infact materialistic pleasures are illusions that will never lead to finding true peace or happiness, but it isnt wrong to be rich and push your self for excellence just dont lose yourself chasing something finite, living on the streets is simply wrong, celibacy is also prohibited in Islam, im pretty sure thats a christian thing.

The main principles of Islam is MUH FREE WILL what is your evidence for islam claiming it's an illusion?

But let's say it did: your argument still contradicts itself.

If free will is an illusion, then why praise people for pushing themselves to excellence or warning them against losing themselves knowing it isn't really their choice?

Material pleasures aren't an illusion. Food, shelter, relationships, undeniably impact human well being. If Islam permits wealth and marriage but still claims worldly pursuits cant bring true peace, it creates a double bind: "youre allowed to enjoy life, but warned it’s ultimately empty unless tied to god" which keeps followers dependent on faith for meaning.

 

[Putridgenes]

This is why I could never get into the Quran man. Anytime I tried religioncelling and opened the Quran every single fucking verse would just be dedicated to describing in gruesome detail how you will be burned in the deepest pits of hell if you don't follow his words. Literally no words of wisdom or anything just kafir kafir kafir

Thats not true brah, theres so many ayat describing the heavens, and Allahs mercy, but it also has ayat for the punishment of Allah for those who heard the truth and rejected it, it goes both ways to motivate people to move towards good and stay away from evil. Btw are u an ex muslim?

 

[choppedshyt]

Thats not true brah, theres so many ayat describing the heavens, and Allahs mercy, but it also has ayat for the punishment of Allah for those who heard the truth and rejected it, it goes both ways to motivate people to move towards good and stay away from evil.

Once again using fear and reward as motivation is coercion not guidance

Btw are u an ex muslim?

My religious background is complicated as I come from a mixed background but to put it simply I did have a phase where I tried looking into Islam, especially since my dad is Muslim.

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

I never said I disbelieved in God, if you've read what I've said. My main issue is that God isn't the way he's been portrayed in most religions.

Furthermore, the stories I've seen don't really link or have much memory of a 'God' but instead they just remember what actually happened in their previous lives.

It would be more convincing for me to be in a 'matrix' type of simulation than what you consider.



Probably means that you're the low IQ one mate.

Yes, but that can be blamed on hallucinations due to their NDE's, on the other hand remembering experiences like that can't really be coincidences.

I'm open to learning, sure.

Yes because I agree other relations get God brutally wrong.

The one one getting god right is Eastern Orthodox Christianity

I’ve seen these stories your on about most I have seen the kids say they were in heaven and spoke to for and angels etc. I’ve seen these reincarnation stories I myself used to be obsessed with fhem a decade ago.

And the kids new life experiences could be to hallucinations etc other factors not necessarily due to “reincarnation” as you put it hell even demons are known to tell people shit who knows these lil niggas ain’t possesed. Point is neither of us know the truth regarding the origin of this shit so why put so much stock into it? There’s a reason why I won’t and don’t use that in my arguments because I see it for what it is

Compare that to the case for the Christian God: it’s not just based on personal experiences, but also on historical claims—like the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus, which is attested by multiple sources inside and outside the Bible. You’ve also got the origin of the universe, fine-tuning of physical laws, the existence of objective moral values, and the explosive growth of the early church under persecutionall pointing to a God who’s not just a vague force or cycle, but personal and relational.

So, while those reincarnation stories might be interesting, they’re not necessarily better evidence. The Christian worldview actually gives a complete framework for understanding life, death, consciousness, and even why people might have those strange experiences in the first place.

The Transcendental Argument for God (TAG) doesn’t just argue for a god—it specifically points to the Christian God.

The idea is this: things like logic, morality, and science only make sense if the world is grounded in a God who is eternal, unchanging, rational, personal, and morally perfect. These things don’t make sense in a random, godless universe. But here’s the twist—not just any god fits the bill.

For example:

• Logic is universal and immaterial. That only makes sense if it reflects the nature of a rational, eternal mind—not a force or cycle like in Eastern religions.
• Objective morality requires a moral lawgiver—someone who is perfectly good and has authority over creation. Again, that fits the Christian God, not a pantheon or impersonal force.
• Science depends on a world that is orderly, consistent, and knowable—just what you’d expect if a rational Creator made it. Christianity uniquely teaches that God created a rational world and gave humans minds in His image to explore it.

Also, only the Christian worldview explains how a personal, loving God can be just and merciful—through Christ. So reincarnation doesn’t provide a foundation for the logic, morality, and science you use every day. Christianity does.

 

[inversions]

Yes because I agree other relations get God brutally wrong.

The one one getting god right is Eastern Orthodox Christianity

I’ve seen these stories your on about most I have seen the kids say they were in heaven and spoke to for and angels etc. I’ve seen these reincarnation stories I myself used to be obsessed with fhem a decade ago.

And the kids new life experiences could be to hallucinations etc other factors not necessarily due to “reincarnation” as you put it hell even demons are known to tell people shit who knows these lil niggas ain’t possesed. Point is neither of us know the truth regarding the origin of this shit so why put so much stock into it? There’s a reason why I won’t and don’t use that in my arguments because I see it for what it is

Compare that to the case for the Christian God: it’s not just based on personal experiences, but also on historical claims—like the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus, which is attested by multiple sources inside and outside the Bible. You’ve also got the origin of the universe, fine-tuning of physical laws, the existence of objective moral values, and the explosive growth of the early church under persecutionall pointing to a God who’s not just a vague force or cycle, but personal and relational.

So, while those reincarnation stories might be interesting, they’re not necessarily better evidence. The Christian worldview actually gives a complete framework for understanding life, death, consciousness, and even why people might have those strange experiences in the first place.

The Transcendental Argument for God (TAG) doesn’t just argue for a god—it specifically points to the Christian God.

The idea is this: things like logic, morality, and science only make sense if the world is grounded in a God who is eternal, unchanging, rational, personal, and morally perfect. These things don’t make sense in a random, godless universe. But here’s the twist—not just any god fits the bill.

For example:

• Logic is universal and immaterial. That only makes sense if it reflects the nature of a rational, eternal mind—not a force or cycle like in Eastern religions.
• Objective morality requires a moral lawgiver—someone who is perfectly good and has authority over creation. Again, that fits the Christian God, not a pantheon or impersonal force.
• Science depends on a world that is orderly, consistent, and knowable—just what you’d expect if a rational Creator made it. Christianity uniquely teaches that God created a rational world and gave humans minds in His image to explore it.

Also, only the Christian worldview explains how a personal, loving God can be just and merciful—through Christ. So reincarnation doesn’t provide a foundation for the logic, morality, and science you use every day. Christianity does.

I'll read this when I'm back I need to go eat and work out

Thanks

 

[Putridgenes]

The main principles of Islam is MUH FREE WILL what is your evidence for islam claiming it's an illusion?

But let's say it did: your argument still contradicts itself.

If free will is an illusion, then why praise people for pushing themselves to excellence or warning them against losing themselves knowing it isn't really their choice?

Material pleasures aren't an illusion. Food, shelter, relationships, undeniably impact human well being. If Islam permits wealth and marriage but still claims worldly pursuits cant bring true peace, it creates a double bind: "youre allowed to enjoy life, but warned it’s ultimately empty unless tied to god" which keeps followers dependent on faith for meaning.

What i mean when i say material pleasures are an illusion is that when your on your deathbed, your wealth wont save you, "youre allowed to enjoy life, but warned it’s ultimately empty unless tied to god" is kinda it , sure dont get me wrong, if i was given a million dollars i would be jolly but in the end your life is gonna come to an end and that money wouldnt matter anymore. Material pleasures are a necessity, but dont chase too far, many end up losing themselves in the chase for money or women. Islam says everything should be done in moderation. True happiness lies in eternal happiness, or you might aswell go inject heroin whats wrong with that.

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

Lol why the ego brah. Can you explain the trinity to me?

The ego is because you have people who can’t even justify how they can trust their senses to give an accurate account of reality sitting up here questioning God. People with 0
Philosophical knowledge who wouldn’t even know what the word “epistemology” means are trying to act like that can even have any knowledge at all.


The trinity is the doctrine founded within the OT prophets and NT. the doctrine posits that God is complex that god is one in essense (what he is) and a trinity in persons (who he is) the father is the source of the godhead the source and fount of the trinity the origin of the persons and nature. The word is the Son (Jesus) the word is his rational faculty his Brain for a human comparison ofc it’s an analogy. This has always existed and the spirit also comes from the father this is gods Breath. The father acts through his ratinal factually does all through the son his word in the spirit the dynamic person think of this like our body all things are fulfilled in the spirit. These persons endwell perfectly in perichorisis in one another and are not separate but are equal in ontology, in being, will and action. The distinction is their origin, the father is Asei (uncaused) the son is begotten and the spirit spirates

St basil in “on the Holy Spirit chapter 5.8 said it best “we say there is one God because there is one emperor, but we don’t say there is 2 because of the emperors image instead we say there’s the emperor (Father) and his image (Son) and a third economy
The Holy Spirit the imperial seal or breath through whom the emperor’s authority is enacted and communicated.”

 

[Putridgenes]

The ego is because you have people who can’t even justify how they can trust their senses to give an accurate account of reality sitting up here questioning God. People with 0
Philosophical knowledge who wouldn’t even know what the word “epistemology” means are trying to act like that can even have any knowledge at all.


The trinity is the doctrine founded within the OT prophets and NT. the doctrine posits that God is complex that god is one in essense (what he is) and a trinity in persons (who he is) the father is the source of the godhead the source and fount of the trinity the origin of the persons and nature. The word is the Son (Jesus) the word is his rational faculty his Brain for a human comparison ofc it’s an analogy. This has always existed and the spirit also comes from the father this is gods Breath. The father acts through his ratinal factually does all through the son his word in the spirit the dynamic person think of this like our body all things are fulfilled in the spirit. These persons endwell perfectly in perichorisis in one another and are not separate but are equal in ontology, in being, will and action. The distinction is their origin, the father is Asei (uncaused) the son is begotten and the spirit spirates

i had a quick read and ill read again later bc i gtg. Just one last question before i go what branch of christianity do you follow?

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

i had a quick read and ill read again later bc i gtg. Just one last question before i go what branch of christianity do you follow?

I added a final paragraph to it one quoted by the saints so I’m not making it up ahaha I advise you read the final paragraph I added to it you’ll enjoy it tbh.

Im Eastern Orthodox. I could be better but I’m still a work in progress

 

[Bars]

There’s no proof for reincarnation so kindly stfu idiot. Heaven isn’t a physical material realm rn anyways so ofc there wouldn’t be scientific evidence off it you dumbass. Imagine asking for physical empirical evidence for a thing that isn’t physical it’s abstract and immaterial besides as I said before heaven is what is created once the day of judgement happens what we get when we die is a foretaste of paradise which is those who followed god feeling his presence in peace being with him spiritually until the judgement. The rest like idiots like yourself will die and have shit time bruv lol


And the irony is you worship science like it’s your god yet the preconditions for science you yourself cane even explain why they exist and how they exist that’s how cringe you dumbass Gaytheists are “MUH SOYANCE “ meanwhile they imposes induction, epistolmogly logic, reliability of the senses and metaphysics etc. all things your stupid GAYtheist worldview cannot account for

You live once, die, receive judgment, and then spend eternity in a fixed state is a logically weak statement because it breaks down under falsifyability, verifyability as there is no way to test it, and it assumes that time continues linearly after death. This is typical western thought (Abrahamic religions) It's just that someone said this is how will be after death and that's it, and it's forbidden to dispute it. It's not scientific.

Reincarnation is more logical than an eternal state after death. Yes, there may be no evidence for it but you have already emerged from nothingness once. There is no reason why it can't happen again after death. Or do you think you just popped out of nothing and then go into nothingness after death (linear timeline just like abrahamic religions)? But you were born once, so why can't you be born again? It doesn't have to have the same form, or same reality. It could be a completely different self of you in a different universe or reality.

 

[mmmousaa]

Then have their followers name themselves some shit like "slave of god"

Legit a contradiction you can't be a slave and have free will

Or the fact that you literally get burned for eternity if you use your free will "the wrong way" ?

Why would I even be punished for eternity if I sinned for say 60 years?

Its not complete free will and Its referring to willful submission to God

 

[mmmousaa]

This is why I could never get into the Quran man. Anytime I tried religioncelling and opened the Quran every single fucking verse would just be dedicated to describing in gruesome detail how you will be burned in the deepest pits of hell if you don't follow his words. Literally no words of wisdom or anything just kafir kafir kafir

the whole point is to make you conscious that your actions can lead to be in hell

 

[choppedshyt]

Its not complete free will and Its referring to willful submission to God

Islam DOES believe in complete free will, you are coping. "Let him who wills believe, and let him who wills disbelieve" *proceeds to fear monger anyone who wills to disbelieve by threatening them with eternal hell for say 20 years of sinning*

Everything is non literal with you people, everything that contradicts your belief is up for interpretation. Hilarious levels of coping brah @inversions

The truth is: why would god, who intends for most people to get on his good side and follow him use such metaphorical cryptic language that could easily be misinterpreted? Infact why would he pick one of the hardest languages in the world knowing that most his followers can not even speak said language properly? Sounds like a recipe for misinterpretation

the whole point is to make you conscious that your actions can lead to be in hell

The fact that I'm reading the Quran implies that there is some sense of belief in me. Okay so then why is 90% of the book all about hell and fear mongering? Where are the wisdoms and teachings

And what do you think of people born in Thailand who are typically born into Buddhism and have no clue of Islam? Why would god favor some by placing them in Muslim majority countries and put others in atheist majority countries? Why does god constantly set people up for failure

 

[mmmousaa]

Islam DOES believe in complete free will, you are coping. "Let him who wills believe, and let him who wills disbelieve" *proceeds to fear monger anyone who wills to disbelieve by threatening them with eternal hell for say 20 years of sinning*

Everything is non literal with you people, everything that contradicts your belief is up for interpretation. Hilarious levels of coping brah @inversions

The truth is: why would god, who intends for most people to get on his good side and follow him use such metaphorical cryptic language that could easily be misinterpreted? Infact why would he pick one of the hardest languages in the world knowing that most his followers can not even speak said language properly? Sounds like a recipe for misinterpretation

The fact that I'm reading the Quran implies that there is some sense of belief in me. Okay so then why is 90% of the book all about hell and fear mongering? Where are the wisdoms and teachings

And what do you think of people born in Thailand who are typically born into Buddhism and have no clue of Islam? Why would god favor some by placing them in Muslim majority countries and put others in atheist majority countries? Why does god constantly set people up for failure

i am talking about Gods predestination of events and free will, we don't believe in total free will. You should've specified in freedom of religion, in that case no.

Half of this rant is just non-arguments lol

Translations exist.

I Don't see how "fear mongering" in this context is bad, if hell does exist I'm pretty sure nobody wants to be there. The Qur'an also constantly reminds you to establish prayer, fast and do good acts (amil al sakinat) etc and no 90% of the Qur'an is not that its generally parables


People who have no knowledge of Islam aren't going straight to hell lol, this is basic Islamic eschatology and soteriology

 

[choppedshyt]

i am talking about Gods predestination of events and free will, we don't believe in total free will. You should've specified in freedom of religion, in that case no.

Half of this rant is just non-arguments lol

Translations exist.

I Don't see how "fear mongering" in this context is bad, if hell does exist I'm pretty sure nobody wants to be there. The Qur'an also constantly reminds you to establish prayer, fast and do good acts (amil al sakinat) etc and no 90% of the Qur'an is not that its generally parables


People who have no knowledge of Islam aren't going straight to hell lol, this is basic Islamic eschatology and soteriology

This argument alone creates philosophical tension lol. The Quran repeatedly states that god decrees all events (Qur’an 54:49), and that he guides or misguides who he wills (Qur’an 14:4). If disbelief or misguidance ultimately occurs by allahs will, then even human "choices" exist within a framework already predetermined, reducing human agency to no free will, where its only apparent rather than genuine.

A choice whose outcome has been decreed in advance cannot be considered truly free in any reasonable sense, making it hard to see how people can be fairly held responsible.

Worship rooted primarily in fear of hell is just coercion (tldr: slavery, muh free will). You do not truly love your god but only submit to him out of fear, which is encouraged by your religion, anyway. Islam may claim to balance fear with hope but its constant, graphic descriptions of hell clearly tilts that balance. Your fear driven compliance is not genuine belief than it is survival instinct. A system that rules by fear should not claim to value sincere faith or voluntary submission.

Yes translations exist but anyone who speaks Arabic knows that they cannot fully capture the precision and nuance of classical Arabic, shit even Arabic speakers can't grasp it because it's a completely different language, which is why you see scholars debate extensively in tafsir. Most believers just have to rely heavily on clerical interpretation which just completely contradicts the claim that the quran is some universal self explanatory message accessible to all. A divine message that cannot be understood without scholarly mediation makes me raise the question of whether it truly functions as independent guidance for all of humanity.

Even Islamic teachings about those ignorant of Islam only show how unfair it truly is. Islam says the ignorant arent automatically fucked over, but salvation still highly depends on knowing the truth of Islam, something you DONT control. Your birthplace and upbringing, (both set by god), decide whether you ever hear Islam. Someone born in a Muslim country has every chance, while someone born elsewhere is at a huge disadvantage. Keep in mind that a person who is familiar with the main concepts of Islam but still chooses to follow their religion because obviously they were indoctrinated into it is still at a massive disadvantage here. Why would god create 2 other abrahamic religions that exist solely to divide people and torment
them?

 

[imontheloose]

Another funny observation

If someone beats you up constantly then says it's because they love you that's textbook abuse

But when religioncels see someone suffering their entire life that means god loves them
@inversions @androsterone @imontheloose

They say it’s because a human isn’t all powerful unlike God and thus his abuse must have a delightful reason. It’s a sort of incredulity of, well I don’t know but God must have a good reason for it. It’s more cognitive bias than anything.

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

You live once, die, receive judgment, and then spend eternity in a fixed state is a logically weak statement because it breaks down under falsifyability, verifyability as there is no way to test it, and it assumes that time continues linearly after death. This is typical western thought (Abrahamic religions) It's just that someone said this is how will be after death and that's it, and it's forbidden to dispute it. It's not scientific.

Reincarnation is more logical than an eternal state after death. Yes, there may be no evidence for it but you have already emerged from nothingness once. There is no reason why it can't happen again after death. Or do you think you just popped out of nothing and then go into nothingness after death (linear timeline just like abrahamic religions)? But you were born once, so why can't you be born again? It doesn't have to have the same form, or same reality. It could be a completely different self of you in a different universe or reality.

You’re asking for a scientific basis to explain something that isn’t scientific but instead theological and based on something that hasn’t even happened yet… what kind of idiot are you? Asking for physical scientific evidence of an abstract immaterial realm that isn’t is present rn. Do you hear yourself reincarnation is retarded if it were true then why is there more people today than in the past why are there more creatures? What epistemic and philosophical explanation for it being the case exists why what’s its propose. Once you analyse these questions you realise it’s fake and gay

God didn’t create Islam, islam was made by the devil as a psyopp and low IQs fell for it. As for those who never hear the truth of the gospel well yeah god will judge them on what they know not on what they don’t know The Bible says gods a just god and thus I believe that he has his ways.

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

If you think that way, then there must be free will so that a person can choose between God and gaytheism.

But since we most likely live in a deterministic universe or at least a subjectively deterministic one for us free will cannot truly exist

Your will is the result of a cause it cannot come from nothing

Therefore, it is already predetermined whether you will find your way to Jesus or not, because certain conditions are given to yo


For example, if you grow up in a country where no one really knows Jesus, or yore born into another religion, then thats not your fault

Whether you become a sinner and separate yourself from God can have causes for which a person is not responsible like having terrible parents, growing up poor, being bullied at school, or having bad genetics that lead to a pessimistic worldview in which belief in God fades


The same person, if born under perfect conditions with good parents, for example, who are religious might have found it much easier to believe in God

How can this be fair

In a determinstic universe everything is already been given and decided before you were born

God knows everything that’s Gonna happen but he still wants things to play out and it’s your choice to follow or not

Yes there’s free will, Gaytheists choose to be Gaytheists it’s what makes them happy so they die and go to hell where they belong and it’s what they want. The irony of your argument about determinism is that if it’s true then your determined to say that which isn’t your own opinion so it’s self defeating because you can’t even argue that case as it’s not your choice and thus your not arguing using logic but arguing because your a puppet. It destroys the possibility of knowledge especially considering it requires everything to just happen with no epistemological content made in the persons behalf.


I wasn’t orthodox, I am not Eastern European either. And yet wow would you look at that I am now interesting almost as if I used my free will to read into it and follow the one true faith of god. It’s not rocket science

 

[Bars]

You’re asking for a scientific basis to explain something that isn’t scientific but instead theological and based on something that hasn’t even happened yet… what kind of idiot are you? Asking for physical scientific evidence of an abstract immaterial realm that isn’t is present rn. Do you hear yourself reincarnation is retarded if it were true then why is there more people today than in the past why are there more creatures? What epistemic and philosophical explanation for it being the case exists why what’s its propose. Once you analyse these questions you realise it’s fake and gay

God didn’t create Islam, islam was made by the devil as a psyopp and low IQs fell for it. As for those who never hear the truth of the gospel well yeah god will judge them on what they know not on what they don’t know The Bible says gods a just god and thus I believe that he has his ways.

You are right I added the word "scientific" to amplify my point, but what I meant was that if something happened once, there's no reason why it shouldn't happen again, and if it doesn't, there might be a force that prevents it. Maybe reincarnation isn't the perfect word, but I don't mean that you will literally come back as the same soul, but the feeling of self that 'you are' won't vanish after you die. If you change a person's body to a robotic one and hit his head to erase his memory, he will still be the same self because his sense of self remains, and if you change part of his brain gradually until his whole brain is different, his sense of self will still be the same, which means that the sense of self is not tied to the original physical body but it's a derivative of the process of awareness. If you kill a man and revive him, his self will be the same as before his death. I understand “reincarnation” as the fact that after death, the current instance of you ends, but the realization of self will not vanish and will inevitably appears again somewhere. It will be a totally different being, unrelated to your old existence, except that both share the same self-feeling.

 

[Spamorzz]

Then have their followers name themselves some shit like "slave of god"

Legit a contradiction you can't be a slave and have free will

Or the fact that you literally get burned for eternity if you use your free will "the wrong way" ?

Why would I even be punished for eternity if I sinned for say 60 years?

Its a church dilemma if its either free will infact or god's plan that guides our lives. Guess well never know

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

You are right I added the word "scientific" to amplify my point, but what I meant was that if something happened once, there's no reason why it shouldn't happen again, and if it doesn't, there might be a force that prevents it. Maybe reincarnation isn't the perfect word, but I don't mean that you will literally come back as the same soul, but the feeling of self that 'you are' won't vanish after you die. If you change a person's body to a robotic one and hit his head to erase his memory, he will still be the same self because his sense of self remains, and if you change part of his brain gradually until his whole brain is different, his sense of self will still be the same, which means that the sense of self is not tied to the original physical body but it's a derivative of the process of awareness. If you kill a man and revive him, his self will be the same as before his death. I understand “reincarnation” as the fact that after death, the current instance of you ends, but the realization of self will not vanish and will inevitably appears again somewhere. It will be a totally different being, unrelated to your old existence, except that both share the same self-feeling.

So this is all based on your feeling… that’s cool but I’m dealing only with FAX, not opinions you can feel like reincarnation js true but there’s no metaphysical argument for it that’s consistent and logical thefore it’s false I can back up mine as being coherent bit internally and externally but there’s same doesn’t applies in reverse

There’s no reason to say if something happened once it’ll happen again either though that’s the point. Who is to say the sun will rise in the morning why can’t it just not? These are the deeper questions posited by great minds which as David Hume who ironically was an atheist

 

[Bars]

So this is all based on your feeling… that’s cool but I’m dealing only with FAX, not opinions you can feel like reincarnation js true but there’s no metaphysical argument for it that’s consistent and logical thefore it’s false I can back up mine as being coherent bit internally and externally but there’s same doesn’t applies in reverse

There’s no reason to say if something happened once it’ll happen again either though that’s the point. Who is to say the sun will rise in the morning why can’t it just not? These are the deeper questions posited by great minds which as David Hume who ironically was an atheist

I said something similar in one of my old posts that yes sun might not rise again in the morning and it's absolutely possible but according to causality it will not happen or the possibility of it is negligible therefore the sun will rise because it has been rising till these days. I then even argued that causality doesn't exist, and we should use correlation instead. Causality as well as all the other scientific or logical atheist methods you mentioned earlier does not answer to the question "why", nobody knows why A event leads to B event, but we see it happening, and gaytheists build their assumptions on it. The sun will probably rise in the morning because of the assumption although it is also possible it will not rise but we haven't witnessed such thing ever. My assumption on reincarnation is also based on such way of thought, I observe the feeling of self starts in the womb and end after death, I was born so it is possible that it MAY (not will) happen again. Why am I not you, why do I not feel that you are not me? What does feel of self even mean? I thought it is when you feel you are bounded or limited by your physical form and it makes me feel that something else is not me, but another thing is me or my physical manifestation. Even my body is not me and my brain is not me as I proved you with brain parts replacement. Feeling of self is opposing oneself from something else and it is based not on "why" but from observation.

 

[valency 2.0]

do you guys feel tired and have no motivation to do anything and also cant sleep at night :/

Rip got banned

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

I said something similar in one of my old posts that yes sun might not rise again in the morning and it's absolutely possible but according to causality it will not happen or the possibility of it is negligible therefore the sun will rise because it has been rising till these days. I then even argued that causality doesn't exist, and we should use correlation instead. Causality as well as all the other scientific or logical atheist methods you mentioned earlier does not answer to the question "why", nobody knows why A event leads to B event, but we see it happening, and gaytheists build their assumptions on it. The sun will probably rise in the morning because of the assumption although it is also possible it will not rise but we haven't witnessed such thing ever. My assumption on reincarnation is also based on such way of thought, I observe the feeling of self starts in the womb and end after death, I was born so it is possible that it MAY (not will) happen again. Why I am not you, why I don't feel that you are not me? What does feel of self even mean? I though it is when you feel you are bounded or limited by your physical form and it makes me feel that something else is not me, but another thing is me or my physical manifestation. Even my body is not me and my brain is not me as I proved you with brain replacement. Feeling of self is opposing oneself from something else and it is based not on "why" but from observation.

I’m saying what is the reason for causality for not being like that why is there order in the universe? There must be a reason for this right? I’m stating the reason is because there’s an ordered being that determine and sets this up. That being being God.

You’re confusing correlation with causation in a way that undermines your own reasoning. Yes, the sun rising is not guaranteed, but it’s not just an assumption, it’s based on consistent natural laws (like gravity and Earth’s rotation), not blind faith. Causality does explain why A leads to B, we observe consistent patterns, and from that, build reliable models that can make accurate predictions (which correlation alone cannot do).

Saying “the sun rose yesterday, so it might rise tomorrow” is correlation. But when we understand why the sun rises, because Earth rotates, that’s causality. If you reject causality, then you also reject the basis for any reasoning, including your own about reincarnation.

Also, your argument about the “self” being disconnected from the brain contradicts the entire field of neuroscience, which shows that damage to the brain does affect memory, identity, and selfhood. You haven’t “proven” that the brain isn’t you you’ve just asserted it.

So no, your view isn’t on equal footing with scientific reasoning. It’s speculation based on feelings and philosophical confusion, not observation in the scientific sense.

 

[Bars]

I’m saying what is the reason for causality for not being like that why is there order in the universe? There must be a reason for this right? I’m stating the reason is because there’s an ordered being that determine and sets this up. That being being God.

It can be multiple Gods or just randomness appearing as order.

You’re confusing correlation with causation in a way that undermines your own reasoning. Yes, the sun rising is not guaranteed, but it’s not just an assumption, it’s based on consistent natural laws (like gravity and Earth’s rotation), not blind faith. Causality does explain why A leads to B, we observe consistent patterns, and from that, build reliable models that can make accurate predictions (which correlation alone cannot do).

Saying “the sun rose yesterday, so it might rise tomorrow” is correlation. But when we understand why the sun rises, because Earth rotates, that’s causality. If you reject causality, then you also reject the basis for any reasoning, including your own about reincarnation.

The sun rises because Earth rotates. Cool why does Earth rotate? Google says because of initial momentum from formation. Why that initial momentum? Because of some swirling cloud of gas. Why the swirl? See the problem? Causality is just pushing the question further back. It’s no different than saying we prayed to Allah so flood went away why? because Allah punished us for something so flood happened. The only difference is complexity.

Theories works because correlation models are good enough to make predictions not because it’s explaining why, this is why they are theories.

Also, your argument about the “self” being disconnected from the brain contradicts the entire field of neuroscience, which shows that damage to the brain does affect memory, identity, and selfhood. You haven’t “proven” that the brain isn’t you you’ve just asserted it.

Jfl yes it affects memory, identity I literally said that in my pre-previous comment, but the feeling of self remains.

 

[PrinceLuenLeoncur]

It can be multiple Gods or just randomness appearing as order.




The sun rises because Earth rotates. Cool why does Earth rotate? Google says because of initial momentum from formation. Why that initial momentum? Because of some swirling cloud of gas. Why the swirl? See the problem? Causality is just pushing the question further back. It’s no different than saying we prayed to Allah so flood went away why? because Allah punished us for something so flood happened. The only difference is complexity.

Theories works because correlation models are good enough to make predictions not because it’s explaining why, this is why they are theories.


Jfl yes it affects memory, identity I literally said that in my pre-previous comment, but the feeling of self remains.

Multiple gods ? Then which one is the one responsible for everything? This leads to chaos having multiple gods you can’t have 2 omnipotent deities claiming to do the same thing wtf logic is that. Who is the uncaused cause? Who is the prime mover? That requires one singular SOURCE not multiple so who is it? Henothiesm just moves the question back a step but doesn’t fix the issue

I don’t think you get what I was getting at with the sun rotation shit. I’m saying why is it ordered such in that way what is making the wind rotation act in Occordanfr to that? What is the reason for it reaction the way it does etc etc this is an meta level question

As for the final para I dunno what your on about.

Tbh im too busy to be debating you about nonsense such as this go ahead believe in your nonsense idc bruv your loss not my issue your IQ too low for this shit

 

[Bars]

Multiple gods ? Then which one is the one responsible for everything? This leads to chaos having multiple gods you can’t have 2 omnipotent deities claiming to do the same thing wtf logic is that. Who is the uncaused cause? Who is the prime mover? That requires one singular SOURCE not multiple so who is it? Henothiesm just moves the question back a step but doesn’t fix the issue

I don’t think you get what I was getting at with the sun rotation shit. I’m saying why is it ordered such in that way what is making the wind rotation act in Occordanfr to that? What is the reason for it reaction the way it does etc etc this is an meta level question

As for the final para I dunno what your on about.

Tbh im too busy to be debating you about nonsense such as this go ahead believe in your nonsense idc bruv your loss not my issue your IQ too low for this shit

You didn't even disprove anything I said about reincarnation. Muh uncaused cause everything your belief is based is on an axiom such as speacial place to your one god as an exception because it will stop working otherwise. Something is wrong with your brain have you ever thought that there might not be any initial source but everything is spontaneous and everything appears to be in order why tf do you think there has no theory of everything appeared yet maybe because there is no universal order huh? I don't reject God I actually believe in God or even Gods might exist in harmony (one rules over physical and one over spiritual) it's not impossible but I don't know and I'm not an atheist either. I absolutely can accept your view but you are sluring me and not giving any explanations. Holy fuck I already made such posts and discussions loong ago when I first came here. Ok here you go a bomb to your ass. Do you understand why monotheism and polytheism were invented in the first place and why they are connected with trade? Do you realize that in the past people traded according to who you believed in? And if you have a different faith, you can't be sure the person won't scam you. That's why they invented polytheism, a pantheon of gods so that traders in the trading center could pray to their gods and safely trade, but since there were too many idols and it was inconvenient and limited trade so they replaced them with monotheism: believe in your God but one god since there is only one God. Holy shit it's in Islam already read and comprehend all these hadiths why Muhammad was a trader and why there were 300+ idols in one Kaaba why he replaced polytheism with monotheism do you even understand why??? People were illiterate so they didn't give a fuck about spirituality and Muhammed himself as well. And your Christianity is bullshit you will never be able to explain to me the principle of trinity because it was invented in the 16th century in the council of trent and the whole Islam was also invented later. Do you even realize that all the events of Christianity took place in Europe? Read about Alexei Khrustalev and it's also connected to Israel that has no right to exist because whole its history is fake and Jerusalem is a fake city.