Why don’t surgeons try and change faces to make it align with Chad ratios instead of aiming for the population norm?

[lilhorizontal32]

Doesn’t make sense tbh

I’m sure most of them know (at least intuitively) what Chad’s ratios are, especially as they have seen 1000s of patients and their imaging and would definitely have had patients with mogger traits, at least in isolation (eg projected chin but no Ramus height)

or they can do studies on actors/models to come up with these ratios

 

[Deleted member 13367]

There is no specific ratio that would make every person attractive.
There are simply too many different features to be taken into account.

 

[dnrd]

There is no specific ratio that would make every person attractive.
There are simply too many different features to be taken into account.

elab

 

[sorrowfulsad]

elab

whats there to elab he said everything

 

[dnrd]

whats there to elab he said everything

ur mom

 

[JosephGarrot123]

Because that's unrealistic jfl. Everyone has different skulls. It really depends on the genetic base skull/cranial base you were born with.

 

[JosephGarrot123]

take the cranial base pill

 

[lilhorizontal32]

Because that's unrealistic jfl. Everyone has different skulls. It really depends on the genetic base skull/cranial base you were born with.

There is no specific ratio that would make every person attractive.
There are simply too many different features to be taken into account.

let me give you an example

2 surgeons I spoke to said they want to make the thirds of the face equal in height.

however we know that gl guys have taller lower thirds, so why not aim for this?

 

[JosephGarrot123]

let me give you an example

2 surgeons I spoke to said they want to make the thirds of the face equal in height.

however we know that gl guys have taller lower thirds, so why not aim for this?

Surgery can help with that like osteotomy for forward growth or recession. , but you'd probably have to resort to custom implants if you need width, shape or more mass.

 

[lilhorizontal32]

Surgery can help with that like osteotomy for forward growth or recession. , but you'd probably have to resort to implants if you need width or shape.

youre missing my point. why aim for population norms in the first place?

obviously not everyone can look like Chad(lite) but I'm sure a lot of patients do have a good starting base, but the surgeon will not go for the most blackpilled movements to maximise their looks, but aim to make them look "normal' (average)

 

[lilhorizontal32]

Doesn’t make sense tbh

I’m sure most of them know (at least intuitively) what Chad’s ratios are, especially as they have seen 1000s of patients and their imaging and would definitely have had patients with mogger traits, at least in isolation (eg projected chin but no Ramus height)

or they can do studies on actors/models to come up with these ratios

The failure with modern Maxiofacial surgeons.

1 The whole process of elimination for each patient takes an enormous amount of time these morph arrangements take hours, hours and hours, they can deal with miscommunication for instance most surgeons are quite conservative in the amount of movement there willing to preform on each patient...

lookism.net

 

[JosephGarrot123]

.

 

[JosephGarrot123]

youre missing my point. why aim for population norms in the first place?

obviously not everyone can look like Chad(lite) but I'm sure a lot of patients do have a good starting base, but the surgeon will not go for the most blackpilled movements to maximise their looks, but aim to make them look "normal' (average)

Ah I see, I agree I think they are bluepilled due to their conservative beliefs of being only functional, and maybe lacking in the aesthetic knowledge department. I think they should aim for maximum aesthetics + functional. but the school that they learned from probably heavily affects that or maybe some policy is enforced. That it shouldn't be for aesthetics but for only functional reasons. That surgery was originally meant for deformed people with functional issues like sleep apnea. Maybe over time they'll gain more aesthetic knowledge.

 

[SixCRY]

People are bullshitting you telling that every one is different

Alfaro did a study on Chad projection , he used the same study that was used to calculate the norms with normies but he only used attractive people

That's how he did the Alfaro line

And this is only for the jawline, other part of face also needs new reference

 

[Deleted member 13409]

Plastic surgeons will with implants

most jaw surgeons won’t but that’s because most people who get jaw surgery wouldn’t survive the amount of breaking required to get to chad

I actually pulled that second one out of my ass but I do know that moving the jaws is traumatic and you don’t want to risk nonunion or slow union or abnormal union by moving too much. That’s why genioplasty past 8-9mm requires a bone graft that’s shaped on the OR table to fit perfectly between the cut and the chin

 

[lilhorizontal32]

People are bullshitting you telling that every one is different

Alfaro did a study on Chad projection , he used the same study that was used to calculate the norms with normies but he only used attractive people

That's how he did the Alfaro line

And this is only for the jawline, other part of face also needs new reference

Oh damn didn’t know this

can you link to study bro?

 

[coolguy1]

Because it would just look off on most people

 

[khvirgin]

this is why

 

[subhuman incel]

There is no specific ratio that would make every person attractive.
There are simply too many different features to be taken into account.

elab

Okay i give you an example. Lets say you have a really recessed person with recessed everything (recessed jaw, recessed chin, recessed lower and upper maxilla, recessed orbitals, recessed forehead and browridge) and you give him a really really large bimax advancements with genio, so his lower third becomes gigachad like, but the rest of the face (upper maxilla, orbitals, forehead and browridge) will still be recessed. You will look off. Thats why its better to give him not to much advancements. Only if the surgeon is willing to do implants at the same time it would work.

 

[dnrd]

Okay i give you an example. Lets say you have a really recessed person with recessed everything (recessed jaw, recessed chin, recessed lower and upper maxilla, recessed orbitals, recessed forehead and browridge) and you give him a really really large bimax advancements with genio, so his lower third becomes gigachad like, but the rest of the face (upper maxilla, orbitals, forehead and browridge) will still be recessed. You will look off. Thats why its better to give him not to much advancements. Only if the surgeon is willing to do implants at the same time it would work.

what if you give him infraorbital malar implants, browridge implants, lefort 1 etc? surely then it wouldnt look off

 

[subhuman incel]

what if you give him infraorbital malar implants, browridge implants, lefort 1 etc? surely then it wouldnt look off

Yes, but u would need all at once. Only a few blackpilled surgeons do that.

 

[dnrd]

Yes, but u would need all at once. Only a few blackpilled surgeons do that.

i would rather look shit for 3 months till the next surgery than have mild results

 

[JosephGarrot123]

Okay i give you an example. Lets say you have a really recessed person with recessed everything (recessed jaw, recessed chin, recessed lower and upper maxilla, recessed orbitals, recessed forehead and browridge) and you give him a really really large bimax advancements with genio, so his lower third becomes gigachad like, but the rest of the face (upper maxilla, orbitals, forehead and browridge) will still be recessed. You will look off. Thats why its better to give him not to much advancements. Only if the surgeon is willing to do implants at the same time it would work.

Just wait till it heals then do implants.

 

[varbrah]

what if you give him infraorbital malar implants, browridge implants, lefort 1 etc? surely then it wouldnt look off

Mid/upper nasomaxillary area is very important for harmony and would still look off for most people imo. Difficult to fix this with just dorsal augmentation and true correction often requires more invasive/risky movements like LF2/LF3, which are generally off the table for non-syndromic cases.

Due to the nasomaxillary component, birdcels typically have the best base possible for ascending with lower-risk osteotomies. All they need is the standard LF1/BSSO/genio and maybe malar advancements osteotomy (i.e. MLF3 - yes this is technically low risk) to really make it.

 

[khvirgin]

this is why
View attachment 1274801

Would this guy looks good with a less massive head and with a better mouth?

 

[JosephGarrot123]

Would this guy looks good with a less massive head and with a better mouth?

honestly he didnt even need that jaw implant

 

[dnrd]

Mid/upper nasomaxillary area is very important for harmony and would still look off for most people imo. Difficult to fix this with just dorsal augmentation and true correction often requires more invasive/risky movements like LF2/LF3, which are generally off the table for non-syndromic cases.

Due to the nasomaxillary component, birdcels typically have the best base possible for ascending with lower-risk osteotomies. All they need is the standard LF1/BSSO/genio and maybe malar advancements osteotomy (i.e. MLF3 - yes this is technically low risk) to really make it.

u seem like u know ur shit, im a birdcel and thats the exact surgeries i plan on getting + rhino ofc

 

[SixCRY]

Oh damn didn’t know this

can you link to study bro?

search on googl soft tissue plane Alfaro

 

[mulattomaxxer]

Jaw surgery is usually done for functional reasons. Also think about what your asking for, do you think its realistic for somebody with our current techonology to give you a chad face.

You can't print out a new face, you can only improve your current face. Although implants are the closest you will get to printing out a new face.

Just imagine you have a car, one is a Ford Fiesta and the other car is a Lamborgini Aventado. The Ford is a normie and the Lambo is Chad. For the ford to improve its looks it will need to get body modifications suitable for fords. If the Ford is a PSL autist and he decides he wants to look like an 8PSL lamborgini, then deciedes to get body modifications suitable for lamborginis, he is going to look retarded.

The same applies for surgery, you have to max out your base, not try and emulate somebody elses base. If you try and replicates somebody elses look, you will end up looking like a gay alien.

 

[varbrah]

u seem like u know ur shit, im a birdcel and thats the exact surgeries i plan on getting + rhino ofc

Then you should be set given you're not comically recessed

Birdcels unironically stay winning since if your nose is hooked/humped you should be able to accommodate a relatively greater amount of linear advancement before you end up over-advancing the nasal base and/or negatively impacting overall harmony. Add CCW into the mix and you have massive advancement at the level of the bite and can manage an even larger BSSO, millimeter for millimeter.

Rhino to round out any derogatory changes to the nose and boom.

 

[dnrd]

Then you should be set given you're not comically recessed

Birdcels unironically stay winning since if your nose is hooked/humped you should be able to accommodate a relatively greater amount of linear advancement before you end up over-advancing the nasal base and/or negatively impacting overall harmony. Add CCW into the mix and you have massive advancement at the level of the bite and can manage an even larger BSSO, millimeter for millimeter.

Rhino to round out any derogatory changes to the nose and boom.

only problem is id have to reverse the compression of my upper teeth bc i had braces and two uppar molars removed...

 

[lilhorizontal32]

search on googl soft tissue plane Alfaro

Thanks bro. Good to see a blackpilled answer

 

[varbrah]

The same applies for surgery, you have to max out your base, not try and emulate somebody elses base. If you try and replicates somebody elses look, you will end up looking like a gay alien.

Yep. Priority should be to fix anatomical recession rather than approximating a chad cro magnon tier growth, which is somewhat futile. After normative facial development is achieved the most determinant of attractiveness is soft tissue morphology and features/phenotype.

 

[khvirgin]

honestly he didnt even need that jaw implant

he wanted to become a chad

 

[dnrd]

Yep. Priority should be to fix anatomical recession rather than approximating a chad cro magnon tier growth, which is somewhat futile. After normative facial development is achieved the most determinant of attractiveness is soft tissue morphology and features/phenotype.

where did you learn all of ur surgical knowledge?

 

[lilhorizontal32]

After normative facial development is achieved the most determinant of attractiveness is soft tissue morphology and features/phenotype.

Have to agree with this.

Some Chad got posted a while ago, nick Bateman iirc and his side profile is pretty average but he still has amazing appeal and has got insane numbers of women simping for him

 

[varbrah]

where did you learn all of ur surgical knowledge?

Self-study/research for my own case mostly. Papers, studies, video lectures, etc.

 

[dnrd]

Self-study/research for my own case mostly. Papers, studies, video lectures, etc.

interesting, i need to learn so much more about it, if u could link me some good info that would help

 

[varbrah]

interesting, i need to learn so much more about it, if u could link me some good info that would help

There's tons of papers floating around on different techniques and osteotomy designs, pros/cons, utility etc. which is all fairly easily understood.

Actual surgical planning is more nuanced and you can get a better understanding of the relevant "know-how" and standard practices from videos, online lectures, and case studies.

Optimizing aesthetic outcomes is even more nuanced with subjective assessments differentiating shitty/average surgeons from top dogs. Can't really break this down super methodically (except for some generally prescribed movements used for vertical maxillary excess, short face, bi-retrusion, Class II/III, etc.). Study as many surgical cases as possible, especially those accompanied by cephs, CBCTs, tracings, animations, etc. and you should grasp it.

 

[dnrd]

There's tons of papers floating around on different techniques and osteotomy designs, pros/cons, utility etc. which is all fairly easily understood.

Actual surgical planning is more nuanced and you can get a better understanding of the relevant "know-how" and standard practices from videos, online lectures, and case studies.

Optimizing aesthetic outcomes is even more nuanced with subjective assessments differentiating shitty/average surgeons from top dogs. Can't really break this down super methodically (except for some generally prescribed movements used for vertical maxillary excess, short face, bi-retrusion, Class II/III, etc.). Study as many surgical cases as possible, especially those accompanied by cephs, CBCTs, tracings, animations, etc. and you should grasp it.

i know everything about what makes an attractive face, its the surgical procedures that i dont know about, and how to get the surgeries that will work best for me, luckily ive had help from a couple of very helpful users on here, but they are only seeing me 2d so it might not be 100% accurate meaning i need to learn for myself

 

[varbrah]

i know everything about what makes an attractive face, its the surgical procedures that i dont know about, and how to get the surgeries that will work best for me, luckily ive had help from a couple of very helpful users on here, but they are only seeing me 2d so it might not be 100% accurate meaning i need to learn for myself

Simple to find and google is your best friend.

 

[PURE ARYAN GENETICS]

Yep. Priority should be to fix anatomical recession rather than approximating a chad cro magnon tier growth, which is somewhat futile. After normative facial development is achieved the most determinant of attractiveness is soft tissue morphology and features/phenotype.

what do you mean boyo normal is recessed in 2021

 

[Deleted member 13710]

I understand what you mean OP, but remember that people who get too ambitious with their surgery goals often look terrible as a result. Going from subhuman to normie-tier might be a more realistic and achievable thing for most people

 

[varbrah]

what do you mean boyo normal is recessed in 2021

I think you misunderstood