Why ESR is overrated, and why MFR is more important

[Futura]

ESR is often regarded as one of the most important ratios in this site, i don't think it's a completely meaningless ratio but it's overrated and the ideal ratio isn't the same on everyone

MFR is a better way to identify eye spacing

ESR is overrated at indentifying if eyes are close/wide set because the midface ratio is what actually matters
Just look at Marko Jaric vs Charlie Kirk, you would probably think Jaric has closer set eyes right?

WRONG, jaric has a 0.4 esr while kirk's ESR is 0.38 (JFL)

Another example is how barret's eyes actually look pretty wide set even tho his esr is low (0.435)

This brings me to my next point

People with high posterior facial depth usually have a lower ESR (Drago, Barret, Stepanov etc)

SInce the distance between the ear and the lateral canthus is higher, the sides of the face look longer and in a front picture the increased length is flattened, causing the eyes to look closer together, this is especially true if the person has prominent cheekbones (barret in the pic above for example)

Now compare it to chico who isn't as forward grown and has non existent zygos

This basically means the more forward grown you are the more you can afford to have a lower esr (YOU STILL NEED AN IDEAL MFR)

Obviously IPD still matters since it's what determines your MFR

TLDR
ESR is overrated, MFR is what actually makes eyes look close or far set and forward growth influences how your eye spacing is percieved

 

[Rhom]

Cool. What is MFR, how do you calculate it?

 

[Narroworbits]

what is the lowest you can go with ipd measurements

 

[Futura]

what is the lowest you can go with ipd measurements

Around 60mm probably (Depp, Ramirez)

 

[Futura]

Cool. What is MFR, how do you calculate it?

It's midface ratio

 

[Narroworbits]

Around 60mm probably (Depp, Ramirez)

don’t people like zayn malik, justin bieber, theo james have lower than this?

 

[Futura]

don’t people like zayn malik, justin bieber, theo james have lower than this?

Yes, but it failos them alot and they have tiny skulls

 

[mr007]

Around 60mm probably (Depp, Ramirez)

Are trolling or legit dumb Ramirez's ipd ind around 68mm to 70 mm something

 

[mr007]

what is the lowest you can go with ipd measurements

Anything under 62 -63 mm is subhuman trait even if you have ideal ESR becoz it means you are skullcel .

 

[Futura]

Are trolling or legit dumb Ramirez's ipd ind around 68mm to 70 mm something

 

[RapeAllFemales]

I have never taken seriously ESR is too vague as ratio also influenced by bigonial width

 

[swagstar]

ESR is often regarded as one of the most important ratios in this site, i don't think it's a completely meaningless ratio but it's overrated and the ideal ratio isn't the same on everyone

MFR is a better way to identify eye spacing

ESR is overrated at indentifying if eyes are close/wide set because the midface ratio is what actually matters
Just look at Marko Jaric vs Charlie Kirk, you would probably think Jaric has closer set eyes right?

View attachment 3173738
View attachment 3173737

WRONG, jaric has a 0.4 esr while kirk's ESR is 0.38 (JFL)

Another example is how barret's eyes actually look pretty wide set even tho his esr is low (0.435)
View attachment 3173757
This brings me to my next point

People with high posterior facial depth usually have a lower ESR (Drago, Barret, Stepanov etc)

SInce the distance between the ear and the lateral canthus is higher, the sides of the face look longer and in a front picture the increased length is flattened, causing the eyes to look closer together, this is especially true if the person has prominent cheekbones (barret in the pic above for example)

View attachment 3173788

Now compare it to chico who isn't as forward grown and has non existent zygos

View attachment 3173801

This basically means the more forward grown you are the more you can afford to have a lower esr (YOU STILL NEED AN IDEAL MFR)

Obviously IPD still matters since it's what determines your MFR

TLDR
ESR is overrated, MFR is what actually makes eyes look close or far set and forward growth influences how your eye spacing is percieved

tye on wider skulls, but on longer ones this doesnt and cant apply

 

[Futura]

tye on wider skulls, but on longer ones this doesnt and cant apply

this is what makes a skull look wide

 

[Anchor_Ship]

Everything matters

 

[swagstar]

this is what makes a skull look wide

not necessarily

 

[giga_aspie]

ESR is often regarded as one of the most important ratios in this site, i don't think it's a completely meaningless ratio but it's overrated and the ideal ratio isn't the same on everyone

MFR is a better way to identify eye spacing

ESR is overrated at indentifying if eyes are close/wide set because the midface ratio is what actually matters
Just look at Marko Jaric vs Charlie Kirk, you would probably think Jaric has closer set eyes right?

View attachment 3173738
View attachment 3173737

WRONG, jaric has a 0.4 esr while kirk's ESR is 0.38 (JFL)

Another example is how barret's eyes actually look pretty wide set even tho his esr is low (0.435)
View attachment 3173757
This brings me to my next point

People with high posterior facial depth usually have a lower ESR (Drago, Barret, Stepanov etc)

SInce the distance between the ear and the lateral canthus is higher, the sides of the face look longer and in a front picture the increased length is flattened, causing the eyes to look closer together, this is especially true if the person has prominent cheekbones (barret in the pic above for example)

View attachment 3173788

Now compare it to chico who isn't as forward grown and has non existent zygos

View attachment 3173801

This basically means the more forward grown you are the more you can afford to have a lower esr (YOU STILL NEED AN IDEAL MFR)

Obviously IPD still matters since it's what determines your MFR

TLDR
ESR is overrated, MFR is what actually makes eyes look close or far set and forward growth influences how your eye spacing is percieved

so what’s the end goal of this thread

 

[Futura]

so what’s the end goal of this thread

Stop people from considering esr a vital ratio

 

[manletmogger]

ESR is often regarded as one of the most important ratios in this site, i don't think it's a completely meaningless ratio but it's overrated and the ideal ratio isn't the same on everyone

MFR is a better way to identify eye spacing

ESR is overrated at indentifying if eyes are close/wide set because the midface ratio is what actually matters
Just look at Marko Jaric vs Charlie Kirk, you would probably think Jaric has closer set eyes right?

View attachment 3173738
View attachment 3173737

WRONG, jaric has a 0.4 esr while kirk's ESR is 0.38 (JFL)

Another example is how barret's eyes actually look pretty wide set even tho his esr is low (0.435)
View attachment 3173757
This brings me to my next point

People with high posterior facial depth usually have a lower ESR (Drago, Barret, Stepanov etc)

SInce the distance between the ear and the lateral canthus is higher, the sides of the face look longer and in a front picture the increased length is flattened, causing the eyes to look closer together, this is especially true if the person has prominent cheekbones (barret in the pic above for example)

View attachment 3173788

Now compare it to chico who isn't as forward grown and has non existent zygos

View attachment 3173801

This basically means the more forward grown you are the more you can afford to have a lower esr (YOU STILL NEED AN IDEAL MFR)

Obviously IPD still matters since it's what determines your MFR

TLDR
ESR is overrated, MFR is what actually makes eyes look close or far set and forward growth influences how your eye spacing is percieved

true my esr makes my eyes look wideset

 

[haymaker283]

Around 60mm probably (Depp, Ramirez)

You sure Ramirez has a 60mm IPD? He has a 0.45 ESR with pretty wide zygos

 

[BWC_virgin]

My ipd is wide like 68-69mm while my byzygo is about 147mm so I have .46-.47 esr however my midface is normal height of like 63mm making my midface ratio 1.1, yet somehow my philtrim Is still 17mm. I think people with wide faces have a hard time meeting “ideal” ratios. Things just don’t add up fully. If my philtrim was shorter I would have a extremely short midface. And if my nose was longer/taller maxilla with more foreward growth It would look good but my splanctocranium is already far foreward. My eyes are positioned very far foreward when compared to my neurocranum while I still have a relatively flat face. People with wide faces need very good dental arch length and positioning to look good in my opinion or it won’t match the scale of the other development.

 

[Futura]

My ipd is wide like 68-69mm while my byzygo is about 147mm so I have .46-.47 esr however my midface is normal height of like 63mm making my midface ratio 1.1, yet somehow my philtrim Is still 17mm. I think people with wide faces have a hard time meeting “ideal” ratios. Things just don’t add up fully. If my philtrim was shorter I would have a extremely short midface. And if my nose was longer/taller maxilla with more foreward growth It would look good but my splanctocranium is already far foreward. My eyes are positioned very far foreward when compared to my neurocranum while I still have a relatively flat face. People with wide faces need very good dental arch length and positioning to look good in my opinion or it won’t match the scale of the other development.

Can u send a side pic in dms

 

[Futura]

My ipd is wide like 68-69mm while my byzygo is about 147mm so I have .46-.47 esr however my midface is normal height of like 63mm making my midface ratio 1.1, yet somehow my philtrim Is still 17mm. I think people with wide faces have a hard time meeting “ideal” ratios. Things just don’t add up fully. If my philtrim was shorter I would have a extremely short midface. And if my nose was longer/taller maxilla with more foreward growth It would look good but my splanctocranium is already far foreward. My eyes are positioned very far foreward when compared to my neurocranum while I still have a relatively flat face. People with wide faces need very good dental arch length and positioning to look good in my opinion or it won’t match the scale of the other development.

Longer philtrum is better if chin is tall enough

 

[BWC_virgin]

I don’t have tall chin unfortunately

 

[sportsmogger]

Around 60mm probably (Depp, Ramirez)

thats my ipd

 

[Futura]

thats my ipd

Ramirez actually has around 65

 

[sportsmogger]

Ramirez actually has around 65

i have 60mm ipd 130mm bizygo and 0.46 esr

 

[Futura]

i have 60mm ipd 130mm bizygo and 0.46 esr

Brutal skull size

 

[sportsmogger]

Brutal skull size

how is it brutal?

my skull looks normal to me, maybe a little narrow

 

[Narroworbits]

how is it brutal?

my skull looks normal to me, maybe a little narrow

You’re a skullcel

 

[sportsmogger]

You’re a skullcel

i am indeed

 

[Futura]

i am indeed

Zeta has 60mm ipd