Why ESR is overrated, and why MFR is more important

[Rhom]

Not really, it isn’t a failo to have a super wide jaw (as long as the chin is super tall also) with an ideal ESR.
OPs argument is kinda water and tbh is pseudo nuance - just because you’re forward grown, doesn’t HAVE to mean you have super wide zygos.
BUT, yes, it is a trend where forward grown faces have well developed zygos as that’s just nature, it doesn’t really mean a subhuman ESR.
The reality is, if you have the look of close set eyes, it’s so fucking over, imo the biggest failo. However, just cause you have a low ESR it doesn’t mean you have the look of close set eyes; Barrett, Von Moger, Pitt etc.
The reason is the lateral canthus; it’s the key to eye area aesthetics - if you have a sharp lateral canthus and / or the lateral canthus crease which is created from great supras and / or infras OR ideal fat deposits.
Close second is nasal bridge and alar base.
No matter what, wider ESR / PERCEIVED ESR will always mog.
If you don’t have this, like I didn’t, do fat grafting, like I did.
View attachment 3483713
I have a 0.48 ESR but eyes looked close set - I had 404 fat around eyes, notice that I got heaps in my supras especially lateral, infras, just below eyes on top of zygos making sure that it didn’t extend beyond 2mm of lateral canthus and importantly too, just above my medial canthus, it’s what made it more downswung, as well as inside of the nasal / lacrimal crest to further increase perceived ESR.

Before btw (20yo in the before, 24yo in the after)
View attachment 3483724
FUCKING NOBODY KNOWS MORE THAN ME ABOUT LOOKSMAXXING RAHHH


Also that after photo isn’t even good compared to other stuff I have but I’m not gonna brag here (), idc what I’m rated as here. Also not really squinting,if I squint I lose a lot of my exotic colouring as you can barely see the eyes and how they contrast with skin and hair colour

I should also mention because it may help some more people: I had a HT in 2023 to achieve mogger narrow temples; I was mistaken, whilst it does help, it’s nothing compared to infra sideburns and how much better and more exotic your eyes look with hair graft placement there vs simply temples.
Also. Shave your inner eyebrows so that they roughly line up with your medial canthus, any closer set makes your eyes look further closer set.

What's the recovery from eye area fat grafts like? Do they make incisions to place chunks of fat underneath the skin, or do they liquify the fat and inject it?

 

[aldamogger]

WRONG, jaric has

Because Jaric does not have one eye space apart cause his pfl is longer; so they look even closer, but Charlie’s is more one eye space apart than jaric, cause his pfl is short making them look not as close as jaric

 

[aldamogger]

actually look pretty wide set even tho his esr is low (0.43

Arch of the eyebrow and hair on the sides. Ian someriokder is saved by his eyebrows

 

[kylemb38]

ESR is often regarded as one of the most important ratios in this site, i don't think it's a completely meaningless ratio but it's overrated and the ideal ratio isn't the same on everyone

MFR is a better way to identify eye spacing

ESR is overrated at indentifying if eyes are close/wide set because the midface ratio is what actually matters
Just look at Marko Jaric vs Charlie Kirk, you would probably think Jaric has closer set eyes right?

View attachment 3173738
View attachment 3173737

WRONG, jaric has a 0.4 esr while kirk's ESR is 0.38 (JFL)

Another example is how barret's eyes actually look pretty wide set even tho his esr is low (0.435)
View attachment 3173757
This brings me to my next point

People with high posterior facial depth usually have a lower ESR (Drago, Barret, Stepanov etc)

SInce the distance between the ear and the lateral canthus is higher, the sides of the face look longer and in a front picture the increased length is flattened, causing the eyes to look closer together, this is especially true if the person has prominent cheekbones (barret in the pic above for example)

View attachment 3173788

Now compare it to chico who isn't as forward grown and has non existent zygos

View attachment 3173801

This basically means the more forward grown you are the more you can afford to have a lower esr (YOU STILL NEED AN IDEAL MFR)

Obviously IPD still matters since it's what determines your MFR

TLDR
ESR is overrated, MFR is what actually makes eyes look close or far set and forward growth influences how your eye spacing is percieved

I feel like if you have a narrow ipd you have to have good pfl. I have a .425 esr while being fat/bloated ( my zygo width will probably slim down by an 1/8 in when I’m lean again which will bring my esr to .434, almost the same as Barrett’s) but I don’t have long pfl so I still get the illusion of close set eyes. There any way to make pfl longer (right now my PFL/PHL ratio is 2.33:1 (also what is Barrett’s PFL/PHL ratio?)

 

[salvation]

Not really, it isn’t a failo to have a super wide jaw (as long as the chin is super tall also) with an ideal ESR.
OPs argument is kinda water and tbh is pseudo nuance - just because you’re forward grown, doesn’t HAVE to mean you have super wide zygos.
BUT, yes, it is a trend where forward grown faces have well developed zygos as that’s just nature, it doesn’t really mean a subhuman ESR.
The reality is, if you have the look of close set eyes, it’s so fucking over, imo the biggest failo. However, just cause you have a low ESR it doesn’t mean you have the look of close set eyes; Barrett, Von Moger, Pitt etc.
The reason is the lateral canthus; it’s the key to eye area aesthetics - if you have a sharp lateral canthus and / or the lateral canthus crease which is created from great supras and / or infras OR ideal fat deposits.
Close second is nasal bridge and alar base.
No matter what, wider ESR / PERCEIVED ESR will always mog.
If you don’t have this, like I didn’t, do fat grafting, like I did.
View attachment 3483713
I have a 0.48 ESR but eyes looked close set - I had 404 fat around eyes, notice that I got heaps in my supras especially lateral, infras, just below eyes on top of zygos making sure that it didn’t extend beyond 2mm of lateral canthus and importantly too, just above my medial canthus, it’s what made it more downswung, as well as inside of the nasal / lacrimal crest to further increase perceived ESR.

Before btw (20yo in the before, 24yo in the after)
View attachment 3483724
FUCKING NOBODY KNOWS MORE THAN ME ABOUT LOOKSMAXXING RAHHH


Also that after photo isn’t even good compared to other stuff I have but I’m not gonna brag here (), idc what I’m rated as here. Also not really squinting,if I squint I lose a lot of my exotic colouring as you can barely see the eyes and how they contrast with skin and hair colour

I should also mention because it may help some more people: I had a HT in 2023 to achieve mogger narrow temples; I was mistaken, whilst it does help, it’s nothing compared to infra sideburns and how much better and more exotic your eyes look with hair graft placement there vs simply temples.
Also. Shave your inner eyebrows so that they roughly line up with your medial canthus, any closer set makes your eyes look further closer set.

Kinda curious, what exactly do you mean with "sharp" lateral canthus? Just supras/ fat deposits that give you/ highlight an almond eye shape? And what do you mean with infra sideburns?

 

[madma]

I have 67 ipd and 143 mm bizygomatic idk if thats good

 

[iblamemygenes]

I have 67 ipd and 143 mm bizygomatic idk if thats good

Ideal range