Why is Surgery so limited?

[normieschmormie]

For example, if someone had all the right surgeries without complication.
Zygo implants, Bimax for Jaw, Modified lefort 3 for maxilla improvement, Brow Implants, imagine they already had Horizontally wide hunter eyes and a compact maxilla naturally.
Would this person be guarranteed to be good looking, or is there just some key to having superior genetics from birth.

Are plastic surgeons just not intelligent enough to understand and recreate attractive facial aesthetics like nature does.
Obviously race/pheno comes into this because every detail and feature of a face is communicating the Pheno and lineage.

We know the attractive features of a face, yet can we recreate them 100%?

 

[normieschmormie]

Bump

 

[Ponder]

I suggest becoming a surgeon yourself if you think you can do it better

 

[normieschmormie]

I suggest becoming a surgeon yourself if you think you can do it better

I'm not actually insulting surgeons.

 

[Ponder]

Are plastic surgeons just not intelligent enough

 

[normieschmormie]

What I mean is that, is the subject of attractive facial aesthetics such a high IQ subject that it is impossible to grasp for the human mind.

Like how scientists who specialize in studying the brain don't fully understand all how the brain works in its entirety.

 

[Deleted member 5583]

Unfortunately many surgeons aren't necessarily knowledgeable on aesthetics, that's one limitation. You're limited by your genetics in the sense that if you have Crouzon syndrome you'll never be a normie, a normie can be good looking, etc. because there's some degree of advancement or improvement you can do and not go beyond to not lose functionality or lose harmony and look unnatural, like in a rhinoplasty. An ethnic nose with excess cartilage just cannot be carved into a prettyboy Chico nose.

If we're going by a more moderate example, still surgery is not like photoshop, many variables involved which limit aesthetic improvement. It's not easy to clay model Cavill's face even if you know what it looks like, right?

 

[normieschmormie]

Unfortunately many surgeons aren't necessarily knowledgeable on aesthetics, that's one limitation. You're limited by your genetics in the sense that if you have Crouzon syndrome you'll never be a normie, a normie can be good looking, etc. because there's some degree of advancement or improvement you can do and not go beyond to not lose functionality or lose harmony and look unnatural, like in a rhinoplasty. An ethnic nose with excess cartilage just cannot be carved into a prettyboy Chico nose.

If we're going by a more moderate example, still surgery is not like photoshop, many variables involved which limit aesthetic improvement. It's not easy to clay model Cavill's face even if you know what it looks like, right?

Yes that's a good example about the nose also, i've been thinking that any surgery should probably be done with race in mind and stereotypical facial features of a specific race, because so much of "a look" is to do with race and pheno.
possibly some element of what "uncanniness" is when an element of race or familial characteristics are lost.

 

[Wallenberg]

Because it's about harmony. For example, a wide jaw is a desired feature, but obviously just making jaw wider isn't what makes you handsome. It needs to be wide and angular and it should "fit your face".

 

[normieschmormie]

Yeah and there's different types of goodlooking, Prettyboy, High class, Thuglike, exotic looking, ruggedly handsome, dumb looking but attractive and Intelligent looking and attractive.
I guess in the end what "fits your face" you can only judge by instinct since there are no archetypes to refer to.
High gonial angle on some, low gonial angle on others.

 

[normieschmormie]

Unfortunately many surgeons aren't necessarily knowledgeable on aesthetics, that's one limitation. You're limited by your genetics in the sense that if you have Crouzon syndrome you'll never be a normie, a normie can be good looking, etc. because there's some degree of advancement or improvement you can do and not go beyond to not lose functionality or lose harmony and look unnatural, like in a rhinoplasty. An ethnic nose with excess cartilage just cannot be carved into a prettyboy Chico nose.

If we're going by a more moderate example, still surgery is not like photoshop, many variables involved which limit aesthetic improvement. It's not easy to clay model Cavill's face even if you know what it looks like, right?

A surgeon not being knowledgeable on Aesthetics is a disturbing idea haha. But I guess a lot of expertise is about hyper-specialization in one thing.

 

[Deleted member 5583]

A surgeon not being knowledgeable on Aesthetics is a disturbing idea haha. But I guess a lot of expertise is about hyper-specialization in one thing.

Surgeons are more informed about surgery itself than the aesthetics part

 

[Deleted member 10615]

we need more blackpilled surgeons tbh

 

[Deleted member 5583]

we need more blackpilled surgeons tbh

does @Surgerymax take consultations tbh?

 

[anti caking agents]

Because you are not rich enough.

 

[normieschmormie]

Because you are not rich enough.

Maybe

 

[NormieKilla]

Because phenotype is your true limit

 

[Deleted member 10172]

For example, if someone had all the right surgeries without complication.
Zygo implants, Bimax for Jaw, Modified lefort 3 for maxilla improvement, Brow Implants, imagine they already had Horizontally wide hunter eyes and a compact maxilla naturally.
Would this person be guarranteed to be good looking, or is there just some key to having superior genetics from birth.

Are plastic surgeons just not intelligent enough to understand and recreate attractive facial aesthetics like nature does.
Obviously race/pheno comes into this because every detail and feature of a face is communicating the Pheno and lineage.

We know the attractive features of a face, yet can we recreate them 100%?

yes, with the right amount of advancements yes.

people get shit surgeons who barely advance the mandible or maxilla (5-10mm)

you're gonna need like (15mm+ if u wanna be really good looking to ascend)

this is why distraction osteogenesis is what I want

 

[entropy137]

For one thing, there's probably aesthetic ratios that haven't been studied yet. There's also ratios between ratios that I've never seen discussed. Some people have thicker skin that will smooth out angular prominent bones. Bimax has a high rate of retraction after year 1. Fillers have a risk of migrating. Most people get stock implants because they're a lot cheaper. Implants can grind down the underlying bone. All in all, for most people a lot of surgery is required to get top tier looks and irl the risks of complications add up.

 

[Need2Ascend]

Because beauty and good looks are natural as a result of good genes and overall healthy development, with all surgeries you are just focusing on one part of the equation, sometimes smaller sometimes bigger but never changing the underlying cranofacial structure as a whole because it's impossible.

You can take the richest man in the world, Mark Zuckerberg or whatever at 21yo, he could have had 1000 surgeries (no complications as a premise) and yet he still would've never been as naturally handsome as a 21yo Chico was.

It's like trying to turn an ugly tree into a beautiful one by cutting of branches and sticking them on different spots, coloring the leaves with a paintbrush, etc.. it will never look naturally beautiful like a tree that was once planted under perfect conditions with great genes.

As a simple rule one could say that the more natural a looksmaxxing method is, the better will it be for a visually pleasing result

 

[Darkstrand]

Just because you know what features are aesthetic doesn't mean you know how to make those features aesthetic, think of normies who get a rhino or chin implant when actually their jaws are recessed

I have for example never seen anyone talk about the importance of inner orbitals, nose bridge and lefort 2 area when it is an area capable of making a deformed patient above average

Even tho people preach the importance of some features like forward growth they don't fully understand what can be done to achieve that

 

[Deleted member 10172]

For one thing, there's probably aesthetic ratios that haven't been studied yet. There's also ratios between ratios that I've never seen discussed. Some people have thicker skin that will smooth out angular prominent bones. Bimax has a high rate of retraction after year 1. Fillers have a risk of migrating. Most people get stock implants because they're a lot cheaper. Implants can grind down the underlying bone. All in all, for most people a lot of surgery is required to get top tier looks and irl the risks of complications add up.

I feel like fillers, implants, and Botox are really shot and make u look uncanny. Going the osteotomy route with the huge advancements will do u justice.

i feel like bimax is a useless surgery compared to distraction osteogenesis because there’s no relapse with distraction and u get way more advancement than a bimax.

 

[Deleted member 10172]

Because you are not rich enough.

Rich people aren’t blackpilled they get shitty fillers, implants and botox

 

[normieschmormie]

Just because you know what features are aesthetic doesn't mean you know how to make those features aesthetic.

I get your point, just because I can listen to a piece of classical music and recognise that it's amazing doesn't mean i can write my own symphonies.
Shouldn't plastic surgeons be learning this though? haha

It's probably just very complicated + physical limitations + different aesthetic visions + surgeons lacking knowledge of aesthetics beyond the basics.

 

[normieschmormie]

I have for example never seen anyone talk about the importance of inner orbitals, nose bridge and lefort 2 area when it is an area capable of making a deformed patient above average

Yeah, personally I find eye area interesting. Like why do some people have horizontally wide eyes and look amazing (David Gandy) and others have hooding, horizontally wide eyes and don't look that good at all (Jeff Seid).

 

[SendMePicsToRate]

Yeah, personally I find eye area interesting. Like why do some people have horizontally wide eyes and look amazing (David Gandy) and others have hooding, horizontally wide eyes and don't look that good at all (Jeff Seid).

Most of it comes down to a balance of fighting success whilst also still being “human” as humans have developed visible sclera in order to show emotion and to indicate their gaze to others.

 

[Deleted member 8758]

Important blood vessels, nerves and fascia make coming up with osyeotimy type procedures risky. Alit of aesthetics come from core bones like the sphenoid. There are many limiting factors of already mature bones too.

 

[Darkstrand]

Yeah, personally I find eye area interesting. Like why do some people have horizontally wide eyes and look amazing (David Gandy) and others have hooding, horizontally wide eyes and don't look that good at all (Jeff Seid).

This actually has a ton to do with the inner orbitals/lefort 2 area... it makes or breaks the aesthetics of an eye are and pretty much the whole face

 

[Deleted member 11370]

For example, if someone had all the right surgeries without complication.
Zygo implants, Bimax for Jaw, Modified lefort 3 for maxilla improvement, Brow Implants, imagine they already had Horizontally wide hunter eyes and a compact maxilla naturally.
Would this person be guarranteed to be good looking, or is there just some key to having superior genetics from birth.

Are plastic surgeons just not intelligent enough to understand and recreate attractive facial aesthetics like nature does.
Obviously race/pheno comes into this because every detail and feature of a face is communicating the Pheno and lineage.

We know the attractive features of a face, yet can we recreate them 100%?

Depends not everyone who gets these surguries looks attractive, you might be attractive in autist psl standerds but not IRL

or your gonna look like an artificial abomination aka @SubhumanCurrycel

his features are good and he has all the right stuff but he seems "Off" for some reason.

your gonna be like that.

 

[Deleted member 12119]

Honestly there should be more surgery options for body recomposition. I’m talking ribcage expansion, scapula expansion, etc...