Widen palate for wider mouth, and does it influence cheek hollowness?

[Magnum Opus]

Before I got my fixed braces I had removable braces that also increased palate width by adjusting the width of the braces every 6 weeks.
My palate is now about half a tooth wider, but looking at MSE results the gained width is even more than one tooth. Because I am still young and my removable braces worked without surgery, should I request more palate widening? I have a 10 tooth smile now but a 12 tooth smile wouldn't hurt and a wider mouth is even better.
I definitely think it's worth it, but doesn't a wider palate make it harder to have hollow cheeks, because the molars then push the skin outwards more than before?

Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 23558]

mouth width doesnt matter if its wider than nose

 

[FrenchChad]

A wider palate will automatically result in a wider mouth which is aesthetically extremely good.
About hollowness keep in mind that wider palate means wider maxilla which means wider zygos too, if you have a good bone structure to begin with (especially a good jaw and at least decent zygomatic lateral projection) it won't affect much your potential hollow cheeks.

 

[FrenchChad]

mouth width doesnt matter if its wider than nose

Cope, the wider the better, everything matters and a wider mouth will almost always add to one facial attractiveness.

 

[Deleted member 23558]

Cope, the wider the better, everything matters and a wider mouth will almost always add to one facial attractiveness.

rather get earrings same halo and not really delon chico o pry etc all have small mouth widths relatively and they dont really ascend w a wider mouth there is so many other things to focus on.

 

[Magnum Opus]

A wider palate will automatically result in a wider mouth which is aesthetically extremely good.
About hollowness keep in mind that wider palate means wider maxilla which means wider zygos too, if you have a good bone structure to begin with (especially a good jaw and at least decent zygomatic lateral projection) it won't affect much your potential hollow cheeks.

Won't wider zygos fuck up the IPD to face width ratio?

 

[FrenchChad]

rather get earrings same halo and not really delon chico o pry etc all have small mouth widths relatively and they dont really ascend w a wider mouth there is so many other things to focus on.

They all have a wide mouth (let me remind you that the average mouth width is dogshit), Chico is even often used as an example for wide mouth here.
Mouth width is obviously not a make or break feature but it remains an important halo that can really add to one attractiveness (same with nasion projection for the side profile), in my case my mouth width increased from palate expansion and the difference is noticeable, a wide mouth can only look unharmonic if you have a cyclop-tier ipd.

 

[Deleted member 23558]

They all have a wide mouth (let me remind you that the average mouth width is dogshit), Chico is even often used as an example for wide mouth here.
Mouth width is obviously not a make or break feature but it remains an important halo that can really add to one attractiveness (same with nasion projection for the side profile), in my case my mouth width increased from palate expansion and the difference is noticeable, a wide mouth can only look unharmonic if you have a cyclop-tier ipd.

chico does not have a wide mouth lol gandy does. O pry doesn't ,they both have a mouth wider than nose that's it.

 

[FrenchChad]

Won't wider zygos fuck up the IPD to face width ratio?

It depends of your IPD right now, ipd may increase slightly from palatal expansion but this is a valid concern since it can highly damage your es ratio if your ipd is already low, in such a case if you don't expand too much you should be able to get a wider mouth and avoid a fucked up es ratio.
Also, how old are you ? The older you are the less likely is your upper maxilla to move significantly in response to palatal expansion.

 

[Magnum Opus]

It depends of your IPD right now, ipd may increase slightly from palatal expansion but this is a valid concern since it can highly damage your es ratio if your ipd is already low, in such a case if you don't expand too much you should be able to get a wider mouth and avoid a fucked up es ratio.
Also, how old are you ? The older you are the less likely is your upper maxilla to move significantly in response to palatal expansion.

I am 17, was 16.5 when I expanded my palate non surgically. My ipd to face width ratio is 0.47 currently

 

[FrenchChad]

chico does not have a wide mouth lol gandy does. O pry doesn't ,they both have a mouth wider than nose that's it.

They both have above average mouth width, average mouth width from what i see everyday is pretty bad btw
O'pry mouth is average

 

[Deleted member 23558]

They both have above average mouth width, average mouth width from what i see everyday is pretty bad btw
O'pry mouth is average

Average = mouth wider than nose. That’s all

 

[FrenchChad]

I am 17, was 16.5 when I expanded my palate non surgically. My ipd to face width ratio is 0.47 currently

.47 is on the higher side, wider zygos probably won't affect negatively by much your harmony and may even improve it.

 

[FrenchChad]

Average = mouth wider than nose. That’s all

Nose-to-mouth width ratio is very heterogenous among the population, Niggers often have wider mouth than caucasians and they often have a wider nose, same one can have a very thin nose and a narrow mouth and still have a mouth wider than it's nose.

 

[Deleted member 23558]

Nose-to-mouth width ratio is very heterogenous among the population, Niggers often have wider mouth than caucasians and they often have a wider nose, same one can have a very thin nose and a narrow mouth and still have a mouth wider than it's nose.

yea so mouth to nose should be >1 and ideally 1.3-1.6 . It is one of those things which is a failo rather than halo

 

[MentalistKebab]

A wider palate will automatically result in a wider mouth which is aesthetically extremely good.

Nope, after a certain point its only slightly better

About hollowness keep in mind that wider palate means wider maxilla which means wider zygos too,

Yeah, the thing is, that is not the case, in almost all cases of MSE before and after bone scans, we see that zygos either stays same width, or gets widerbut less than palate, so potential for hollow cheeks disappear.

if you have a good bone structure to begin with (especially a good jaw and at least decent zygomatic lateral projection)

He wouldnt be here if he had that you know that right

 

[malicieusss]

Before I got my fixed braces I had removable braces that also increased palate width by adjusting the width of the braces every 6 weeks.
My palate is now about half a tooth wider, but looking at MSE results the gained width is even more than one tooth. Because I am still young and my removable braces worked without surgery, should I request more palate widening? I have a 10 tooth smile now but a 12 tooth smile wouldn't hurt and a wider mouth is even better.
I definitely think it's worth it, but doesn't a wider palate make it harder to have hollow cheeks, because the molars then push the skin outwards more than before?

Thanks.

me reading your post with my forced 8 teeths smile + already had extractions and bimax - over

 

[Magnum Opus]

me reading your post with my forced 8 teeths smile + already had extractions and bimax - over

I hope you‘ll improve from here

 

[Magnum Opus]

He wouldnt be here if he had that you know that right

Premium cope, but correct is that my gonial angle and the forward growth of my mandible isn‘t great. However maxilla is very good currently, I have a SNA of 87 degrees and very high + laterally projected zygos. However if the zygos expand more, my bigonial width wouldn‘t be 0.9 of my bizygomatic width anymore.

 

[Deleted member 17920]

a wider palate means less cheek hollowness yes

but with mse maybe not since zygos also expand but mse usually leads to asymmetry p sure

 

[Magnum Opus]

a wider palate means less cheek hollowness yes

but with mse maybe not since zygos also expand but mse usually leads to asymmetry p sure

Can the caused asymmetry be fixed in any way?

 

[FrenchChad]

Nope, after a certain point its only slightly better

Yeah, the thing is, that is not the case, in almost all cases of MSE before and after bone scans, we see that zygos either stays same width, or gets widerbut less than palate, so potential for hollow cheeks disappear.

He wouldnt be here if he had that you know that right

But it's still an improvement, moreover in his case since his es ratio is on the higher side a wider mouth could make his face more harmonic (mouth width equal to ipd minus iris is ideal despite being unrealistic most of the time), for sure like every feature there is a point of disminishing returns but it remains an improvement overall.
As i said upper maxilla response to palatal expansion depends on age, some people get significantly wider zygos some doesn't.
Hollow cheeks doesn't only depends on zygos or palatal width, jaw, chin and ramus plays a very big role too, Brad Pitt have hollow cheeks in some pics despite having a bigonial width wider than his bizygomatic width.
You can have a good bone structure and still be ugly, this dude have top tier bone structure and still rot here everyday :

 

[Magnum Opus]

But it's still an improvement, moreover in his case since his es ratio is on the higher side a wider mouth could make his face more harmonic (mouth width equal to ipd minus iris is ideal despite being unrealistic most of the time), for sure like every feature there is a point of disminishing returns but it remains an improvement overall.
As i said upper maxilla response to palatal expansion depends on age, some people get significantly wider zygos some doesn't.
Hollow cheeks doesn't only depends on zygos or palatal width, jaw, chin and ramus plays a very big role too, Brad Pitt have hollow cheeks in some pics despite having a bigonial width wider than his bizygomatic width.
You can have a good bone structure and still be ugly, this dude have top tier bone structure and still rot here everyday :
View attachment 2008753

I'd have to send pics tbh but I won't dox myself. Measuring ES ratio in the mirror is more accurate than smartphone pics, right?

 

[FrenchChad]

I'd have to send pics tbh but I won't dox myself. Measuring ES ratio in the mirror is more accurate than smartphone pics, right?

Using software is more accurate but anyway you can easily see if your eyes looks close-set or not.

 

[MentalistKebab]

But it's still an improvement, moreover in his case since his es ratio is on the higher side a wider mouth could make his face more harmonic (mouth width equal to ipd minus iris is ideal despite being unrealistic most of the time), for sure like every feature there is a point of disminishing returns but it remains an improvement overall.
As i said upper maxilla response to palatal expansion depends on age, some people get significantly wider zygos some doesn't.
Hollow cheeks doesn't only depends on zygos or palatal width, jaw, chin and ramus plays a very big role too, Brad Pitt have hollow cheeks in some pics despite having a bigonial width wider than his bizygomatic width.
You can have a good bone structure and still be ugly, this dude have top tier bone structure and still rot here everyday :
View attachment 2008753

I can confirm that the guy in the pic is not rotting here, the one who larps as him tho, idk about that