Discussion Will genio alone fix this

Coronabeer

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Wondering if genio alone can fix my subhuman side profile
 

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materialistic

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It's always hard to evaluate when you post a pic with forward head posture, but I'd guess it can.
 
Coronabeer

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Sorry, just changed the picture
 
randomvanish

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head posture is not clear but looks like you need bimax, not just genio
 
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Chinlet Ascension

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OP needs bimax.

It's interesting it looks like his maxilla is in front of his eyes and brow area (although it is hard to see with the censored area), yet his lower face/neck area still looks very receded. Is this the kind of face that would look dogmaxxed if he gets his jaws advanced?
 
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valhalar

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OP needs bimax.

It's interesting it looks like his maxilla is in front of his eyes and brow area (although it is hard to see with the censored area), yet his lower face/neck area still looks very receded. Is this the kind of face that would look dogmaxxed if he gets his jaws advanced?
No, he won’t be dogmaxxed if he does BIMAX with counter clockwise rotation.

The top front teeth stay in relatively the same place. The maxilla is cut so a wedge gap is opened at the back, where bone is grafted (posterior downgrafting). Or the maxilla is cut so bone is removed from the front. BSSO is done on the bottom jaw, lengthening it. Both of these changes allow the lower mandible to swing forward.

In this case looks like he needs some rotation by cutting away maxilla at the front, and perhaps downgrafting but idk.

The bottom picture of the male is an ‘extreme’ example of counterclockwise rotation. Notice how his upper jaw did not need to be moved much forward? That’s CCW. He prob got posterior downgrafting and anterior repositioning.

8F146A09 886C 4E93 A7C1 2AE84EB41366
 
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valhalar

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Wondering if genio alone can fix my subhuman side profile
Absolutely not, you should pursue bimaxillary surgery, specifically with counter clockwise rotation. Let me explain.

Your posture is fooling you.

I rotated your head in line with the Frankfurt plane, a line which runs from above your ear canal through the orbital rim. It reveals your true recession using a line I dropped from your forehead. This recession is of your jaws, not your chin.

Ug1


The most aesthetic profile, I believe, is when soft tissue aligns somewhere closer to the line.

Your upper maxilla is downward grown, causing your mandible to have grown short and hence your chin looks small. The issue isn't your chin however, it’s shortness and downward direction of the jaws.

Here is the change we want to replicate with bimaxillary surgery, specifically counter-clockwise rotation of the jaws:

Maxilla


See how by rotating the upper jaw in a counter-clockwise direction the mandible can 'swing up' into the correct position?

Well I morphed a very rough potential outcome of such a procedure:

Fininni


It's pretty hard to morph this nicely because of where your jaws are sitting though.

You can also expect the soft tissue under your chin to stretch out around the new longer jaws as I morphed. It also improves your posture as your head does not rotate back to open the airway anymore. Breathing improved, aesthetics improved.... it is the only answer for you in my opinion.

So, do not pursue genioplasty. If you get bimax (double jaw) surgery with a good surgeon, they usually include that as part of the procedure any way.
 
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Coronabeer

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OP needs bimax.

It's interesting it looks like his maxilla is in front of his eyes and brow area (although it is hard to see with the censored area), yet his lower face/neck area still looks very receded. Is this the kind of face that would look dogmaxxed if he gets his jaws advanced?
That's exactly what i'm fearing.

Absolutely not, you should pursue bimaxillary surgery, specifically with counter clockwise rotation. Let me explain.

Your posture is fooling you.

I rotated your head in line with the Frankfurt plane, a line which runs from above your ear canal through the orbital rim. It reveals your true recession using a line I dropped from your forehead. This recession is of your jaws, not your chin.

View attachment 1675036

The most aesthetic profile, I believe, is when soft tissue aligns somewhere closer to the line.

Your upper maxilla is downward grown, causing your mandible to have grown short and hence your chin looks small. The issue isn't your chin however, it’s shortness and downward direction of the jaws.

Here is the change we want to replicate with bimaxillary surgery, specifically counter-clockwise rotation of the jaws:

View attachment 1675040

See how by rotating the upper jaw in a counter-clockwise direction the mandible can 'swing up' into the correct position?

Well I morphed a very rough potential outcome of such a procedure:

View attachment 1675047

It's pretty hard to morph this nicely because of where your jaws are sitting though.

You can also expect the soft tissue under your chin to stretch out around the new longer jaws as I morphed. It also improves your posture as your head does not rotate back to open the airway anymore. Breathing improved, aesthetics improved.... it is the only answer for you in my opinion.

So, do not pursue genioplasty. If you get bimax (double jaw) surgery with a good surgeon, they usually include that as part of the procedure any way.
Wow. Thanks for the reply! Another relevant piece of info is that my bite is perfect as it is now, do you think this might complicate the case for this surgery? Additionaly, who are the best surgeons to perform this? I know that Ramieri is great for bimax, but i don't know about CCW.
 
Zenturio

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Wow. Thanks for the reply! Another relevant piece of info is that my bite is perfect as it is now, do you think this might complicate the case for this surgery?
Did you have orthodontic treatment when younger? Extractions? Elastics? You might need decompensation for your teeth. The surgeon will know about this.
Additionaly, who are the best surgeons to perform this? I know that Ramieri is great for bimax, but i don't know about CCW.
Ramieri does ccw. So do Pagnoni, Alfaro and a few others. If you fear looking overdone then Ramieri is the best choice since he is very careful with his movements. However the drawback is that you risk an underwhelming result.
 
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valhalar

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Wow. Thanks for the reply! Another relevant piece of info is that my bite is perfect as it is now, do you think this might complicate the case for this surgery? Additionaly, who are the best surgeons to perform this? I know that Ramieri is great for bimax, but i don't know about CCW.
Perfect bite can still get bimax, in fact CCW is the only way you can realign jaws when teeth meet. However, as Zenturio said your orthodontic treatment may have masked a class II.

Yes, that surgeon does CCW and he is good at it. He does full 3D planning and even shows you a soft tissue prediction which is very accurate. They plan it to the mm and then get brackets that only allow the surgeon to move the bone as planned.

I guarantee you will not be dog maxed, as in your case CCW may involve lengthening the maxilla at the back (called posterior downgrafting) which keeps your front teeth in a similar position to where they are now. They might move 2mm or so. Refer to the black & white photo of the guy I posted above for an example of how CCW does not cause dogmaxxing. In fact, advancement without CCW rotation causes dogmaxxing.
 
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Coronabeer

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Thanks guys.

Yes i had braces when younger (from 12 to 17), used elastics for a small period of time. I also used a mouthpiece to sleep (for jaw projection i believe). I can talk to my orthodontist to get more info if relevant.
 
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valhalar

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Also one other thing about this image. Because your jaws are small, they play a huge role in your bad posture. You stand with your head rotated back slightly because your jaws interfere with your airway. So in order to compensate for your airway, your body reverts to poor posture because it opens your airway up.

I can talk to my orthodontist to get more info if relevant.
If you send a proper side profile pic to Ramieri, he would probably write a referral letter for you to get a cone beam CT, and specify how he wants it done. Using the DICOM files from that he can take a full look at your bone, soft tissue and airway in 3D.

Ramieri does often say people need to ‘decompensate’ their teeth if they are being held in place with retainers. He can probably give you more info on that, which may require you to talk to your orthodontist. If it’s the orthodontist who did this treatment you should be a little wary if they are resistant to you, because they didn’t recommend jaw surgery in the first place (they love camouflage orthodontics). Then again, many are just dumb and doing their ‘job’ and will be happy with your desire for jaw surgery.
 
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valhalar

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Oh I should’ve added, if you do need significant decompensation then your jaw surgeon usually instructs the orthodontist to assist. Decompensation is getting teeth to move back to a favourable position with the bone, as the teeth were usually bucked forward by the ortho treatment to camoflauge the jaw issues.

I know this all sounds like horrible admin and time. But it will benefit you for the rest of your life.

Examples:
CBCC1AF2 3738 47EB 97AE 926F5D30068D
 
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fuckedupmanlet

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Absolutely not, you should pursue bimaxillary surgery, specifically with counter clockwise rotation. Let me explain.

Your posture is fooling you.

I rotated your head in line with the Frankfurt plane, a line which runs from above your ear canal through the orbital rim. It reveals your true recession using a line I dropped from your forehead. This recession is of your jaws, not your chin.

View attachment 1675036

The most aesthetic profile, I believe, is when soft tissue aligns somewhere closer to the line.

Your upper maxilla is downward grown, causing your mandible to have grown short and hence your chin looks small. The issue isn't your chin however, it’s shortness and downward direction of the jaws.

Here is the change we want to replicate with bimaxillary surgery, specifically counter-clockwise rotation of the jaws:

View attachment 1675040

See how by rotating the upper jaw in a counter-clockwise direction the mandible can 'swing up' into the correct position?

Well I morphed a very rough potential outcome of such a procedure:

View attachment 1675047

It's pretty hard to morph this nicely because of where your jaws are sitting though.

You can also expect the soft tissue under your chin to stretch out around the new longer jaws as I morphed. It also improves your posture as your head does not rotate back to open the airway anymore. Breathing improved, aesthetics improved.... it is the only answer for you in my opinion.

So, do not pursue genioplasty. If you get bimax (double jaw) surgery with a good surgeon, they usually include that as part of the procedure any way.
Such a high IQ take. I can’t believe I almost considered getting only genio and rhino 6 months ago. Bimax or Death babyyyyy :blackpill:
 
galego123

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Absolutely not, you should pursue bimaxillary surgery, specifically with counter clockwise rotation. Let me explain.

Your posture is fooling you.

I rotated your head in line with the Frankfurt plane, a line which runs from above your ear canal through the orbital rim. It reveals your true recession using a line I dropped from your forehead. This recession is of your jaws, not your chin.

View attachment 1675036

The most aesthetic profile, I believe, is when soft tissue aligns somewhere closer to the line.

Your upper maxilla is downward grown, causing your mandible to have grown short and hence your chin looks small. The issue isn't your chin however, it’s shortness and downward direction of the jaws.

Here is the change we want to replicate with bimaxillary surgery, specifically counter-clockwise rotation of the jaws:

View attachment 1675040

See how by rotating the upper jaw in a counter-clockwise direction the mandible can 'swing up' into the correct position?

Well I morphed a very rough potential outcome of such a procedure:

View attachment 1675047

It's pretty hard to morph this nicely because of where your jaws are sitting though.

You can also expect the soft tissue under your chin to stretch out around the new longer jaws as I morphed. It also improves your posture as your head does not rotate back to open the airway anymore. Breathing improved, aesthetics improved.... it is the only answer for you in my opinion.

So, do not pursue genioplasty. If you get bimax (double jaw) surgery with a good surgeon, they usually include that as part of the procedure any way.
what app do you use to make these morphs?
 

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