Will getting a lean gymmaxed body with abs and adonis belt help you ascend on tinder?

[ropemaxx]

David Laid's beginner gains were made with Blaha's novice program

David laid has top 0000,1% genetics and took massive amount of drugs. Whatever routine he ever did is completely irrelevant. Be logically consistent

You will never see guy who has a big chest who is natural and can only bench 135 lbs. The bigger his chest is, the stronger his bench press is.

Doesnt Enkiri Elite Fitness have a big bench? His chest is very small

You only say this about Blaha because you think he still looks like back in 2015, but he doesn't, he has gained a lot of strength and muscle mass since then. The reason why he doesn't look aesthetic is because he has a lot of loose skin because he was fat before, and he doesn't want to risk his health with the surgery to remove the loose skin because he doesn't care about it which makes sense because he is a married man in his 40s.

So you really have no idea what you are talking about. Also, Blaha is stronger and bigger than you are and he is much older than you are, you should show some respect instead of hating on the guy.

even if your goal is purely aesthetic, Blaha's methods will give you better results than anyone else.

Nah man. If your goal is to be aesthetic and not strong(they are different goals) then there is no reason for you to respect an ugly fat guy who dont look like he even lifts. Dont force other peoples goals on to them
Being fat and strong is not something we aspire to on a looksmaxx forum

You are just a Blaha fanboy. Its clear. He has no excuse to be an fat ugly guy if his "specialty" is aesthetics

Brad pitt has a much better physique than Blaha and is 56 years old. Dont let age be an excuse.

 

[randomuser2407]

High IQ. This is what im trying to argue. We are on looksmaxx. Our goal is to look good. Not have autist 5x5 morons worship our huge tree legs and big squat numbers.
If you like this philosophy, you should look nattyornot.com , he is pretty based. He followed the squat advice for years, killing himself trying to get good numbers. But he got absolutely nothing out of it. When he dropped the advice, he looked better. No one in the real world gave a flying fuck about his squat or deadlift numbers.

Like i said, most chads on instagram, or fitness models, musicians have better physiques than 99% of gym lifters. Why? because they get to 10% body fat, have chiseled slim abs with V lines and adonis belt. Their faces are also presentable

Meanwhile gym goers are 20% body fat with huge legs, guts and manboobs.

"If you like this philosophy, you should look nattyornot.com , he is pretty based."

Like I keep saying, you're an idiot if you trust that guy, he said it himself on his website that he tried getting strong on the compound lifts for years and never reached the intermediate level because he couldn't do progressive overload. Yet somehow you trust this moron who can't even lift properly to make progress?

You should never trust someone just because they say something you like, you should always check if they are natural, if they look like they lift and how long it took them to reach their goal. If it took them a couple of years of research and then they quickly made fast gains, they are legit, but if it took them many years to make gains, then they are morons who don't actually know the proper way.

Nattyornot.com claims that it will take you over 5 years to reach your goal physique but he is wrong because he doesn't train properly. Just because it didn't work for him, he thinks it doesn't work and has rationalized this delusion with madeup lies that he came up with to sell shitty ebooks on his website. He is worse than Kinobody who actually gives a bit of good advice, nattyornot's advice will get you nowhere. Kinobody's advice will get you a decent upper body but not the best results overall and it will be slower than full body training would have been.


"Like i said, most chads on instagram, or fitness models, musicians have better physiques than 99% of gym lifters. Why? because they get to 10% body fat, have chiseled slim abs with V lines and adonis belt. Their faces are also presentable"

No, the reason why they look so amazing and so much better than everyone else is because they are on steroids. Steroids allow you to maintain a body fat of 6-8% year round without ruining your health and without looking small, because compounds like anavar and trenbolone allow you to have big muscles even at low levels of body fat. Instead of worshipping fake natties, you should look up to true naturals even if they are less impressive because they will know more about how to give you the physique that you want without drugs.

Those who worship fake natties often end up becoming fake natties themselves or quitting the gym when they are disappointed with their lack of results which were caused by following bad advice from liars who inject themselves with steroids.

There are some instagram guys who are natural, but they don't look as impressive as the fitness models and the big time influencers like Jeff Seid or David Laid.

 

[sytyl]

Holy shit wtf are u talking about? I dont go to the gym? Im the biggest guy on this forum, u would look like a malnourished worm next to me IRL

@sytyl u live in canada right? How many big shredded white guys are there?

In my city ive seen maybe 6 except me

I don't notice too many people with physiques or height on your level, probably just uni level sports players. Hard to say the numbers but yeah probably at the gym there's much more than on the streets. The average person is not gymmaxed at all, 1 year of consistent gym and you mog 95% of people muscle wise imo.

 

[IncelMeta]

"What makes your traps grow from a deadlift is the weighted stretch from your traps trying to have your shoulder not pop out of its socket. Thats why a deadlift will grow your traps, but never optimally, unless you are on steroids. "

This is a line taken directly from AlphaDestiny but it's a lie that has been debunked so many times. The traps don't just work at the top of the deadlift, they work at the bottom too and the deadlift is a longer range of motion than the rack pull so the traps are worked more with the deadlift, plenty of youtubers have already shown this. AlphaDestiny lied because he was trying to sell his shitty ebook called "Naturally Enhanced", he just wanted to make money, he didn't care if the information was true or not, so it was all about marketing.

Here are plenty of videos that prove my point:






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OK6txd9Id4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfUXl6xaams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhO8FGhxnCs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0Z2i34ke0Y



"Also If you think kinobody has small or unproportional legs, you are smoking some squat propaganda my friend.
Kinobody has the body that makes girls wet in an instant, he has a fuck me now physique"

You're not very intelligent if you trust everything that Kinobody says. He is a snake oil salesman and he does not slay with women, it's actually the opposite. Yes, he is rich but he is a narcissistic personalitycel. He loves himself so much that his conversations with women are very cringey since he only talks about himself all the time and women hate it.

The women who are in his videos are just paid models, they don't actually want to have sex with him. He probably gets laid though but only because of his daddy's money, not because of his physique.

Kinobody Cringe Compilation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAC05N4pXBY
Kinobody Cringe Compilation 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc6ZyTNFS7g
Kinobody Cringe Compilation 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2rbOaIZbps

And, finally, a response to Kinobody's bad leg advice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqxLp4g_mic

"Get stronger" is the key

This is the dumbest post I have ever read on this thread.

Pushups dont even achieve the same effect as bench press, they work muscular endurance, not muscle mass. And that is because pushup strength doesn't carryover to anything, and it doesn't build a lot of muscle since you're not using enough weight. This is why calisthenic guys are weaker and smaller than guys who do only compound movements in a gym.

Even if your goal is aesthetics, muscle gain is directly correlated to strength gain, you cannot separate the 2 as a natural lifter. This is why the biggest guys who are natural are also very strong and vice versa. You will never see guy who has a big chest who is natural and can only bench 135 lbs. The bigger his chest is, the stronger his bench press is.

So, if you want to get a muscular physique, you have to get strong at as many compound movements as possible and you have to do it in the most efficient way possible to get the fastest results.


" The only fitness youtuber that looks like absolute shit I know is Jason Blaha. And people regularly say he just looks like a fat bald dude.
Thus comes the circlejerk of "Gotta lift heavy!" virtue signaling bullshit.
They will tell you to up the weight and do minimalistic programs with very low work volume, in reality total work volume and frequency is king to muscle growth. When you gain strength, most of it is neural adaptations."

View attachment 767461
View attachment 767493
View attachment 767503

You only say this about Blaha because you think he still looks like back in 2015, but he doesn't, he has gained a lot of strength and muscle mass since then. The reason why he doesn't look aesthetic is because he has a lot of loose skin because he was fat before, and he doesn't want to risk his health with the surgery to remove the loose skin because he doesn't care about it which makes sense because he is a married man in his 40s.

Also, lifting can be a hobby, it doesn't have to be just about women but even if your goal is purely aesthetic, Blaha's methods will give you better results than anyone else.

David Laid's beginner gains were made with Blaha's novice program, if you go see the youtube video, you will still see David Laid's comment on the page (it's the first one) and David Laid even confirmed it himself. So before he started using steroids, when he was younger, he made his best natty gains thanks to Blaha.

So you really have no idea what you are talking about. Also, Blaha is stronger and bigger than you are and he is much older than you are, you should show some respect instead of hating on the guy.

There aren't any other fitness youtubers who are natural and muscular who offer free programs that show how to get their results in the most efficient way possible. Everyone else tries to sell you something and most of the time, it's not the most efficient program.

But Blaha did not create any of this, the information already existed before, he just found it online like I did and tried to make it more popular to help people finally get the results that they want. Blaha's novice program is just a modified version of stronglifts 5x5.

You forget also that this way of training (focusing on strength to build muscle) is what was used by the true natural pro bodybuilders, the old school bodybuilders who didn't have access to steroids back in the 1800s, they didn't do bodypart splits or pushups, they lifted heavy weights and did full body training. So Blaha's methods are the oldest, the most conventional and what has always worked for naturals, while splits, upper lowers and push pull legs programs are actually a new thing that arrived only a few decades ago in the golden age of bodybuilding (when Arnold was at his prime).

1. Strength is correlated to size. But the relationship isn't as strong as you think. For example: You will progress MUCH faster with strength if you focused on 1 or 3 rep sets. Where as you will gain much more size doing a 10-20 rep sets rather pure strength. I am defining strength here as total weight on the bar. Obviously if your progressive overloading on 10-20 rep sets you are also getting stronger.

If strength was all that mattered, we would all just be power lifters.

Total work volume is key. You don't need a 315 bench press to get a massive chest. Fck, if you can bench press 225 for 20 reps your basically good to go.

2. Old school bodybuilders were natural? Holyfuck, you actually thought arnold was natural? Most of the old school body builders focused on INSANE amounts of work volume and weight. Apart from the genetic freaks, no one did a standard 5x5 ice cream fitness shit to get big.

 

[randomuser2407]

David laid has top 0000,1% genetics and took massive amount of drugs. Whatever routine he ever did is completely irrelevant. Be logically consistent

Doesnt Enkiri Elite Fitness have a big bench? His chest is very small

Nah man. If your goal is to be aesthetic and not strong(they are different goals) then there is no reason for you to respect an ugly fat guy who dont look like he even lifts. Dont force other peoples goals on to them
Being fat and strong is not something we aspire to on a looksmaxx forum

You are just a Blaha fanboy. Its clear. He has no excuse to be an fat ugly guy if his "specialty" is aesthetics
View attachment 767577
Brad pitt has a much better physique than Blaha and is 56 years old. Dont let age be an excuse.

Alec Enkiri doesn't have a small chest, you only say this because you have been watching too many fake natties and you think that they are the norm. Alec Enkiri's muscles look small because he is very lean, when you are a natural, at low body fat, your muscles will look smaller that is an inescapable fact.

It's not because of bad genetics that he looks like that, it's because he is natural, natural guys don't look as muscular as steroid users especially at low body fat. But women don't care about those details, and they prefer the natural look than the fake natty look.

Only guys will be impressed by your perfect frame and muscle insertions, women only care about the size of your muscles and if your upper body is proportional to your lower body and whether you have abs or not. With strong abs, it's possible to have visible abs at 15% body fat and even at 20%, AlphaDestiny is proof of that.

 

[randomuser2407]

"Get stronger" is the key


1. Strength is correlated to size. But the relationship isn't as strong as you think. For example: You will progress MUCH faster with strength if you focused on 1 or 3 rep sets. Where as you will gain much more size doing a 10-20 rep sets rather pure strength. I am defining strength here as total weight on the bar. Obviously if your progressive overloading on 10-20 rep sets you are also getting stronger.

If strength was all that mattered, we would all just be power lifters.

Total work volume is key. You don't need a 315 bench press to get a massive chest. Fck, if you can bench press 225 for 20 reps your basically good to go.

2. Old school bodybuilders were natural? Holyfuck, you actually thought arnold was natural? Most of the old school body builders focused on INSANE amounts of work volume and weight. Apart from the genetic freaks, no one did a standard 5x5 ice cream fitness shit to get big.

You don't need a 315 bench press to get a massive chest. Fck, if you can bench press 225 for 20 reps your basically good to go.

You just contradicted yourself here. Whether you do low reps or high reps there is no difference:

1RM calculators are proof of this, even if you train at high reps, as long as you do progressive overload, the end result is the same, I was never saying anything against that.

This whole debate started because those idiots think that it's possible to gain muscle without progressive overload but it's not. Whether you use high reps or low reps, it doesn't actually matter, what matters is whether you are adding weight or not. The more reps you do, the less you will be able to lift and vice versa.

The main problem with doing high reps is that, the more reps you do, the more your form starts to break down and that can lead to injury which can ruin your progress and your health, so low reps are better because it's easier to maintain perfect form for 5 reps than for 20 reps.

People who claim that lifting heavy will get you injured are idiots because if you do more reps, you still need to get stronger to get bigger, but most people don't do this, they don't do progressive overload, they do 12 reps but without increasing the weight when they succeed, even adding reps would help them, but they don't do that either.


Also, yes, the bodybuilders from the late 1800s and early 1900s were natural, before steroids existed, everyone was natural.

 

[randomuser2407]

David laid has top 0000,1% genetics and took massive amount of drugs. Whatever routine he ever did is completely irrelevant. Be logically consistent

Doesnt Enkiri Elite Fitness have a big bench? His chest is very small

Nah man. If your goal is to be aesthetic and not strong(they are different goals) then there is no reason for you to respect an ugly fat guy who dont look like he even lifts. Dont force other peoples goals on to them
Being fat and strong is not something we aspire to on a looksmaxx forum

You are just a Blaha fanboy. Its clear. He has no excuse to be an fat ugly guy if his "specialty" is aesthetics
View attachment 767577
Brad pitt has a much better physique than Blaha and is 56 years old. Dont let age be an excuse.

Also, Brad Pitt doesn't have loose skin and he is a former Chad, there is a difference. Blaha is more muscular though, his physique is better, but Brad Pitt is more attractive because Blaha is less good looking and is carrying loose skin.

 

[ropemaxx]

Also, Brad Pitt doesn't have loose skin and he is a former Chad, there is a difference. Blaha is more muscular though, his physique is better, but Brad Pitt is more attractive because Blaha is less good looking and is carrying loose skin.

No, brad pitt has a more aesthetic looking physique. Dont try to weezle your way out of this fact with excuses
99% of the population would think brad has a better body if you removed their face from the pic.
Getting strong and fat will never be a good way to get aesthetic.

Also would Jason blaha ever be as big and strong if he didnt bulk for his whole life? No, he wouldnt
Most fitness channels you link anyway say stuff like "dont train for aesthetics, thats gay."
then why do you bring them here? why do you force your strongman squat shit on us who just want to look good? i dont go into powerlifting forums and tell them to lean down and drop the deadlifting, lol

 

[IncelMeta]

High IQ. This is what im trying to argue. We are on looksmaxx. Our goal is to look good. Not have autist 5x5 morons worship our huge tree legs and big squat numbers.
If you like this philosophy, you should look nattyornot.com , he is pretty based. He followed the squat advice for years, killing himself trying to get good numbers. But he got absolutely nothing out of it. When he dropped the advice, he looked better. No one in the real world gave a flying fuck about his squat or deadlift numbers.

Like i said, most chads on instagram, or fitness models, musicians have better physiques than 99% of gym lifters. Why? because they get to 10% body fat, have chiseled slim abs with V lines and adonis belt. Their faces are also presentable

Meanwhile gym goers are 20% body fat with huge legs, guts and manboobs.

10% bodyfat is law. Fuck being strong at a higher bodyfat.

You don't need a 315 bench press to get a massive chest. Fck, if you can bench press 225 for 20 reps your basically good to go.

You just contradicted yourself here. Whether you do low reps or high reps there is no difference:
View attachment 767600

1RM calculators are proof of this, even if you train at high reps, as long as you do progressive overload, the end result is the same, I was never saying anything against that.

This whole debate started because those idiots think that it's possible to gain muscle without progressive overload but it's not. Whether you use high reps or low reps, it doesn't actually matter, what matters is whether you are adding weight or not. The more reps you do, the less you will be able to lift and vice versa.

The main problem with doing high reps is that, the more reps you do, the more your form starts to break down and that can lead to injury which can ruin your progress and your health, so low reps are better because it's easier to maintain perfect form for 5 reps than for 20 reps.

People who claim that lifting heavy will get you injured are idiots because if you do more reps, you still need to get stronger to get bigger, but most people don't do this, they don't do progressive overload, they do 12 reps but without increasing the weight when they succeed, even adding reps would help them, but they don't do that either.


Also, yes, the bodybuilders from the late 1800s and early 1900s were natural, before steroids existed, everyone was natural.

Oh, I was simply stating that total work volume is king, and its much more easier to focus on that instead of adding weights.

Example: Doing Bench 5x5 140lbs VS Bench 5x10 70lbs
Will get you similar amounts of gains. However, it is infinitely easier to do Bench 5x10 with 70lbs. In fact, you could probably do 5x15 at 70 lbs with less effort than 5x5 at 140lbs. Doing 1000 reps with 5 pound dumbells probably aren't going to do jack shit for you though.

Recovery:
I actually think higher reps are much better for joint health and injury prevention. If you do high volume at 50% of your rpm, it's much Less nervous system strain and less loading on the joints. combined with increased bloodflow to your joints your recovery is much better.

Also, even if the 1800-1900 focused strictly on strength, we don't know how many years that took them. It also doesn't mean that we can't improve on what they were doing.

 

[PYT]

Agreed.

Our goal is AESHETICS. We do not give a fuck about plates or athletic performance.

Many fitness youtubers is centered around, "Lift for yourself, I love going to the gym, bench press PR'S!" or some other cope. We all know the real reason any of those people ever started going to the gym anyways was to look better.

The only fitness youtuber that looks like absolute shit I know is Jason Blaha. And people regularly say he just looks like a fat bald dude.

Thus comes the circlejerk of "Gotta lift heavy!" virtue signaling bullshit.

They will tell you to up the weight and do minimalistic programs with very low work volume, in reality total work volume and frequency is king to muscle growth. When you gain strength, most of it is neural adaptations.

Do 1000 push ups everyday for 3 months with a slight calorie surplus.
That will give you way Undeniably more chest gains than a 5x5 bench press routine for the same amount of time, assuming your diet isn't fcked.

how much frequency and work volume is ideal then

what if im a athlete

 

[ropemaxx]

10% bodyfat is law. Fuck being strong at a higher bodyfat.

8 Reasons Why Beginner Barbell Strength Routines Are the Worst for Aesthetics (and what to do instead) | NattyOrNot.com

Here are some great quotes exposing the bullshit 5x5 strength starting programs. Look at the bottom for the end result

"Ridiculously Low Upper Body Volume
During one of the weeks, you’re doing 3×5 = 15 reps for your chest. However, you’re always squatting three times a week for 3 sets of 5. On top of that, you’re also deadlifting (1 set of 5).

Apparently, the glutes and the spinal erectors are the most important muscles according to programs like Starting Strength. Hence why they get 65 total reps.
During this particular week and phase, the biceps get zero. Eventually, the lifter adds chin-ups, which is great, but they are also alternated.
Another muscle group that is painfully ignored are the lats. Without chin-ups, the only movement that works them is the deadlift.

How do you expect to build up an aesthetic physique when all your energy goes towards the construction of your buttocks and hidden muscles such as the spinal erectors?
All while getting fatter in the process…

Ridiculous claims
Where do I start? Seriously? There are so many nuggets of broscience wisdom surrounding 5×5 routines.
One of my favorites is: “Squats help your arms grow because you’re holding the bar.”

Here’s the truth:
If an exercise is not limited by a muscle group, then that exercise cannot trigger optimal growth of that muscle group.
The squat is a lower body movement that works primarily the quads, the glutes, and the spinal erectors.
And by the way, the squat and the deadlift are not that great for ab training. If you want to develop strong abs, you’ll have to do dedicated movements."


Anyway here is the funny part, Mark rippletoe was proud of his student for gaining a lot of strength in a couple of months with his starting strength bulking program
his squat went from 45 x 5 to 345 x 5.
Here is what he looks like

This is the type of guy Mark Rippletoe and jason Blaha creates all the time. These guys will then go online and mock us for our low squat numbers. Follow their advice if u wanna look like him. I dont know, he probably squats more than i ever will.

Here is another guy who was on starting strength 5x5

In this picture he is able to deadlift 400 pounds while eating in a calorie surplus on the 5x5 strength program.
Where is the aesthetics?
He then had to spend over a year to lose all the body fat he gained,

What could possibly go wrong bulking and focusing mostly on lower body lifts?

 

[IncelMeta]

8 Reasons Why Beginner Barbell Strength Routines Are the Worst for Aesthetics (and what to do instead) | NattyOrNot.com

Here are some great quotes exposing the bullshit 5x5 strength starting programs. Look at the bottom for the end result

"Ridiculously Low Upper Body Volume
During one of the weeks, you’re doing 3×5 = 15 reps for your chest. However, you’re always squatting three times a week for 3 sets of 5. On top of that, you’re also deadlifting (1 set of 5).

Apparently, the glutes and the spinal erectors are the most important muscles according to programs like Starting Strength. Hence why they get 65 total reps.
During this particular week and phase, the biceps get zero. Eventually, the lifter adds chin-ups, which is great, but they are also alternated.
Another muscle group that is painfully ignored are the lats. Without chin-ups, the only movement that works them is the deadlift.

How do you expect to build up an aesthetic physique when all your energy goes towards the construction of your buttocks and hidden muscles such as the spinal erectors?
All while getting fatter in the process…

Ridiculous claims
Where do I start? Seriously? There are so many nuggets of broscience wisdom surrounding 5×5 routines.
One of my favorites is: “Squats help your arms grow because you’re holding the bar.”

Here’s the truth:
If an exercise is not limited by a muscle group, then that exercise cannot trigger optimal growth of that muscle group.
The squat is a lower body movement that works primarily the quads, the glutes, and the spinal erectors.
And by the way, the squat and the deadlift are not that great for ab training. If you want to develop strong abs, you’ll have to do dedicated movements."


Anyway here is the funny part, Mark rippletoe was proud of his student for gaining a lot of strength in a couple of months with his starting strength bulking program
his squat went from 45 x 5 to 345 x 5.
Here is what he looks like
View attachment 767697
This is the type of guy Mark Rippletoe and jason Blaha creates all the time. These guys will then go online and mock us for our low squat numbers. Follow their advice if u wanna look like him. I dont know, he probably squats more than i ever will.

Here is another guy who was on starting strength 5x5

View attachment 767720 In this picture he is able to deadlift 400 pounds while eating in a calorie surplus on the 5x5 strength program.
Where is the aesthetics?
He then had to spend over a year to lose all the body fat he gained,
View attachment 767728 What could possibly go wrong bulking and focusing mostly on lower body lifts?

LFMAO, I DID STARTING STRENGTH AND LOOK EXACTLY LIKE THIS. HUGE LEGS, UPPER BODY SHIT.

One good side is now you can ignore legs completely and just focus on upper body though, which is what I'm doing now.

 

[ropemaxx]

LFMAO, I DID STARTING STRENGTH AND LOOK EXACTLY LIKE THIS. HUGE LEGS, UPPER BODY SHIT.

One good side is now you can ignore legs completely and just focus on upper body though, which is what I'm doing now.

Wow brutal dude but not unexpected. Well most guys who who there end up looking like fat centaurs
Be happy you left that cult

 

[MassacredMyBoy]

Actually, yes you need to be able to bench 315 lbs to get an amazing chest.

The guy on the right has a chest of someone who can bench 225 lbs probably, but the guy on the left isn't natural. If he was natural, he would be at the advanced level so a 100 lb weighted chin up, a 200 lb overhead press, a 300 lb bench press, a 400 lb squat and a 500 lb deadlift.

If you reach those strength standards as a natural lifter, you will look like how Ryan Reynolds looks on the left without needing steroids.
However, what you need to understand is that in that picture, he isn't at 10%, he is at around 15% actually, the reason why his abs are still visible is because he took steroids, but naturally you can achieve a similar look by training your abs, or even just reaching a 400 lb squat and a 500 lb deadlift without a belt will make your abs reach their genetic potential.

Also, I wasn't talking about AlphaDestiny, I only posted the videos to show you that 15-20% body fat isn't unhealthy and it's actually necessary to make progress and that is my point.

If you want to cut down, you can but you have to wait until you are very muscular otherwise you will look skinny and weak, this is just the truth. The reason why people who gymmax never get below 15% is not because cutting is difficult, cutting is actually very easy, it's because when you are leaner, your performance suffers. If you are just maintaining your muscle mass, that isn't a problem, but if you plan to gain more muscle mass, it will never work if you are lean.

The only guys who can make good progress at a low body fat are those who are on steroids, and when you are a natural, in addition to destroying your performance when getting lean, you also look smaller, because the more fat you have on your frame as a muscular guy, the bigger you look. Steroid users can look great even when shredded to the bone because the drugs make their muscles look more full, this is one of the biggest benefits of drugs like trenbolone and anavar (because it's not the testosterone that does that effect).

The reason why there are guys on Instagram who are able to look amazing when shredded is because they are not natural.

You can still look great as a natural but you can't go lower than 10%, and if you do go down to 10%, you have to accept that your performance will turn to shit. You'll see it when you lean down. Your gains will stall, and you'll wonder why.

That is why you should only get lean when you are satisfied with your level of muscle mass.

Lol, what? 3 plate bench to have a decent chest? Overkill

 

[ropemaxx]

Lol, what? 3 plate bench to have a decent chest? Overkill

Yeah lol
Omg i love this guys quotes
"Ask yourself this – is it really worth it to get fat just to create the illusion of higher strength levels?
If you are lifting to look good, this strategy makes no sense.
If you are lifting for a sport other than sumo, this strategy still doesn’t make sense.
Are you lifting weights to feel and look good or are you doing it to satisfy men on the Internet – the place where everyone is a millionaire, squats 400lbs, benches 300lbs and deadlifts 600lbs after a year of training, naturally, of course?
Come on. Get serious. "

 

[ropemaxx]

"Like i said, most chads on instagram, or fitness models, musicians have better physiques than 99% of gym lifters. Why? because they get to 10% body fat, have chiseled slim abs with V lines and adonis belt. Their faces are also presentable"

No, the reason why they look so amazing and so much better than everyone else is because they are on steroids. Steroids allow you to maintain a body fat of 6-8% year round without ruining your health and without looking small, because compounds like anavar and trenbolone allow you to have big muscles even at low levels of body fat. Instead of worshipping fake natties, you should look up to true naturals even if they are less impressive because they will know more about how to give you the physique that you want without drugs.

Those who worship fake natties often end up becoming fake natties themselves or quitting the gym when they are disappointed with their lack of results which were caused by following bad advice from liars who inject themselves with steroids.

There are some instagram guys who are natural, but they don't look as impressive as the fitness models and the big time influencers like Jeff Seid or David Laid.

I wasnt talking about gym chads. I was talking about ordinary chads, musicians and actors who have low body fat and look better than 99% of bulkers because they are lean.
Are you seriously so delusional that you think you need a 200 pound OHP to look good?

"If you like this philosophy, you should look nattyornot.com , he is pretty based."

Like I keep saying, you're an idiot if you trust that guy, he said it himself on his website that he tried getting strong on the compound lifts for years and never reached the intermediate level because he couldn't do progressive overload. Yet somehow you trust this moron who can't even lift properly to make progress?

You should never trust someone just because they say something you like, you should always check if they are natural, if they look like they lift and how long it took them to reach their goal. If it took them a couple of years of research and then they quickly made fast gains, they are legit, but if it took them many years to make gains, then they are morons who don't actually know the proper way.

Nattyornot.com claims that it will take you over 5 years to reach your goal physique but he is wrong because he doesn't train properly. Just because it didn't work for him, he thinks it doesn't work and has rationalized this delusion with madeup lies that he came up with to sell shitty ebooks on his website. He is worse than Kinobody who actually gives a bit of good advice, nattyornot's advice will get you nowhere. Kinobody's advice will get you a decent upper body but not the best results overall and it will be slower than full body training would have been.

No, he is not an idiot and he reached some good numbers like a 200-240 kilo deadlift i think. Thats not failing at progressive overload.

How can you possibly perform a pullup at maximum effort if you did a squat or deadlift before? You know that doing high % of your 1RM on heavy compounds like deadlifts and squats fatigues your CNS? Well maybe not to the steroid users.
I for example cant do pullups for shit after i have done a heavy farmers walk. Thats why i do pullup first in all my back days because i think lats are the most important.

Its really funny that you defend people like Mark rippletoe and jason blaha. Perhaps the 2 guys in the whole fitness industry who create the most unaesthetic fat looking centaurs who brag about their squat numbers.

I mean naturally you would hate nattyornot.com when he exposes the lies of the 5x5 squat cult leaders. Look at my post above

 

[randomuser2407]

@ropemaxx @MassacredMyBoy @IncelMeta @PYT

First of all, since the very beginning, I wasn't even talking about Starting Strength, I don't like starting strength because it lacks frequency and exercise selection, there are no accessory lifts, and yes you are right, it puts too much focus on the lower body.

Blaha's ICF 2.0 is different though:

You alternate workout A and B on a monday, wednesday friday basis, it can be other days but it has to be in this fashion.

By doing this, for 3 times per week you: squat 3x5, bench press 3x5 and overhead press 3x5
And every other workout you: barbell row 3x5, and deadlift 1x5.

That program doesn't put more emphasis on the legs, in fact, it has more upper body exercises than lower body.
So after 1 year of using this program, people who use proper form and eat enough will reach a 135 lb overhead press, a 225 lb bench press, a 315 lb squat and a 405 lb deadlift. Even though the deadlift has low frequency and low volume, it still improves because it's dependent on your squat strength and your form when you are a beginner.

Doing this program would make any skinny guy as muscular as possible as quickly as possible, and depending on their genetics it could take 6-12 months to reach that level, after that they'll need to switch to an intermediate program that has some form of periodization or progress will be impossible.

You can say whatever you want about Blaha himself, but no other program would make you do that many sets of that many compound lifts for that amount of volume. Most programs would rather make you do a bunch of useless fluff and pump exercises with a frequency of 1 time per week per compound lift.

Full body workouts are more effective than anything else because they work every muscle group 3 times per week, unlike the other programs who train every muscle group 1-2 times per week.

A higher frequency lower volume approach is best for natural lifters who are beginners.

Also, since strength is directly correlated to muscle mass, the stronger you are, the bigger you are. That is true when looking at all natural lifters, the biggest guys are the strongest guys. Powerlifters are a bad example because they limit themselves to 3 exercises, they don't train for general strength.

This is not a powerlifting program, it's a general strength program, it addresses every muscle group in your body and it is balanced, it makes you do curls, face pulls and weighted crunches 3 times per week in addition to all the compound lifts.

As for those who argue that you don't need a 300 lb bench, it depends on the level of muscle mass that you want. If you are satisfied with the physique that Brad Pitt had in Fight Club, then it's fine, you can stop trying to make progress once you reach the intermediate level.

But for those who want that superhero physique that Kinobody has right now and what Chris Hemsworth and Chris Evans had at their best, you'll need to reach the advanced strength standards: a 100 lb weighted chin up, a 200 lb overhead press, a 300 lb bench press, a 400 lb squat and a 500 lb deadlift.

As for those guys who look fat on starting strength, it's because they did the program the wrong way. You don't need to get fat to make progress, and you definitely don't need to bulk if you are 15% body fat, you just need to bulk if you are very lean. For most people, 15% body fat is their natural state.

Also, like I said many times, the reason why normal people don't cut is because they don't care about getting a six pack, and the reason why most guys who are strong in gyms are not lean is because their priority is not having abs but being strong. If your priority is to get lean, that is fine too, I never said anything against that.

There is nothing wrong with getting lean, my point is that if you are too skinny for your height (eg. a 170 lb guy at 6 foot 4) you need to bulk, otherwise you will never make progress, you can't recomp if you are skinny.

When I talk about body fat, I know that it's confusing because people either underestimate or overestimate body fat percentages because they don't know how it actually works. So a better way to know whether you should cut or bulk is to look at your weight vs your height and how you look in the mirror, if you are skinny fat (like the guy on the picture that @ropemaxx posted), then recomping is a good idea because as a beginner who has extra fat that he needs to lose, you can gain muscle while losing fat because you can gain a lot of muscle in your first year.

So, you don't need to get fat to make progress in the gym, you need to eat enough, and you may lose your abs a bit, but you don't need to get a huge belly. That skinny fat guy in the picture was probably around 20%. What people don't realize is that the more muscle you have on your frame, the better you look with lots of fat, and the less muscle you have, the fatter your fat makes you look, that is why you'll never see a skinny fat guy who can bench 225 lbs.

 

[randomuser2407]

I wasnt talking about gym chads. I was talking about ordinary chads, musicians and actors who have low body fat and look better than 99% of bulkers because they are lean.
Are you seriously so delusional that you think you need a 200 pound OHP to look good?

No, he is not an idiot and he reached some good numbers like a 200-240 kilo deadlift i think. Thats not failing at progressive overload.

How can you possibly perform a pullup at maximum effort if you did a squat or deadlift before? You know that doing high % of your 1RM on heavy compounds like deadlifts and squats fatigues your CNS? Well maybe not to the steroid users.
I for example cant do pullups for shit after i have done a heavy farmers walk. Thats why i do pullup first in all my back days because i think lats are the most important.

Its really funny that you defend people like Mark rippletoe and jason blaha. Perhaps the 2 guys in the whole fitness industry who create the most unaesthetic fat looking centaurs who brag about their squat numbers.

I mean naturally you would hate nattyornot.com when he exposes the lies of the 5x5 squat cult leaders. Look at my post above

No, the reason why I don't trust nattyornot.com is because he has no evidence to prove his nonsensical claims.

He doesn't show a body or a strength transformation, he doesn't show the timeframe, he doesn't give us any proof of his progress and he doesn't even tell us his name.

How can you trust someone who has no proof of what he says and hides behind a username?

Sure, Blaha isn't super aesthetic but at least he gives good advice that gets people strong and muscular and he practices what he preaches, like I showed in one of my previous replies, he has amazing strength numbers and he looks the part too, he has huge traps, tree trunk legs, wide lats and a big chest. The only reason why he doesn't look aesthetic is because he is at around 15% body fat and he has loose skin, he doesn't want to cut because he cares more about performance than looks, that's his choice.

I only trust the guys who are natural and give good advice that works and I only trust them if they are able to prove that their stuff works.
Blaha won't show you body transformations because he isn't Kinobody, his goal isn't to sell programs, and he knows that he will get clients even without any testimonials because of his reputation.

I put my best friend on Kinobody's greek god program in 2016, and he made the best gains of his life, then when I discovered blaha's program I made my friend switch to that, and in only 2 years, he reached: a 200 lb overhead press, a 315 lb bench press, a 400 lb squat and a 500 lb deadlift so that style of programming does work. Programs that make you squat 3 times per week do work so you are full of shit.

 

[ropemaxx]

No, the reason why I don't trust nattyornot.com is because he has no evidence to prove his nonsensical claims.

He doesn't show a body or a strength transformation, he doesn't show the timeframe, he doesn't give us any proof of his progress and he doesn't even tell us his name.

How can you trust someone who has no proof of what he says and hides behind a username?

Sure, Blaha isn't super aesthetic but at least he gives good advice that gets people strong and muscular and he practices what he preaches, like I showed in one of my previous replies, he has amazing strength numbers and he looks the part too, he has huge traps, tree trunk legs, wide lats and a big chest. The only reason why he doesn't look aesthetic is because he is at around 15% body fat and he has loose skin, he doesn't want to cut because he cares more about performance than looks, that's his choice.

I only trust the guys who are natural and give good advice that works and I only trust them if they are able to prove that their stuff works.
Blaha won't show you body transformations because he isn't Kinobody, his goal isn't to sell programs, and he knows that he will get clients even without any testimonials because of his reputation.

I put my best friend on Kinobody's greek god program in 2016, and he made the best gains of his life, then when I discovered blaha's program I made my friend switch to that, and in only 2 years, he reached: a 200 lb overhead press, a 315 lb bench press, a 400 lb squat and a 500 lb deadlift so that style of programming does work. Programs that make you squat 3 times per week do work so you are full of shit.

Squatting cant and will not make you OHP or bench more. Just like benching more wont make your squat go up. Some of your claims are crazy bro.

Ayway blaha is not 15% bodyfat. More like 25-30%. He has also admitted to taken steroids in the past, so he is not even a natty.
Anyway getting low body fat is hard, very hard. Most people dont have the willpower. Otherwise guys like Blaha or Mark rippletoe would be leaner. There is no reason for them to stay at such high bodyfat %. Higher risk of mortality, and also look like shit
So i would never take any of their diet advice.
I mean maybe they stay at high bodyfat to lift more, but at that point your goal is not even to achieve aesthetics, which is what we are trying to achieve here.
Running a Blaha program wont magically make me gain strength on OHP. There is no magic formula that will make ur other lifts go up just because you squat. The opposite is true infact because of the CNS fatigue of all that heavy squatting and deadlifting.

Kinobody actually practice what he preaches. He has stayed lean for a very very long time. If he is natural he is one of the most impressive guys in the industry.
You admit Those other rather have performance than looks. Thats fine, but thats not what we are discussing on looksmaxx.
Our goal is not to be 25% body fat and lift the most amount of weight we can.

Jason and mark rippletoe are experts in being fat and strong. If i wanted to be fat and strong, i would follow their advice like it was gods own words. But they know nothing about aesthetics, thats the truth. I doubt those guys would even argue that but yet you are here defending them.

 

[randomuser2407]

Squatting cant and will not make you OHP or bench more. Just like benching more wont make your squat go up. Some of your claims are crazy bro.

Ayway blaha is not 15% bodyfat. More like 25-30%. He has also admitted to taken steroids in the past, so he is not even a natty.
Anyway getting low body fat is hard, very hard. Most people dont have the willpower. Otherwise guys like Blaha or Mark rippletoe would be leaner. There is no reason for them to stay at such high bodyfat %. Higher risk of mortality, and also look like shit
So i would never take any of their diet advice.
I mean maybe they stay at high bodyfat to lift more, but at that point your goal is not even to achieve aesthetics, which is what we are trying to achieve here.
Running a Blaha program wont magically make me gain strength on OHP. There is no magic formula that will make ur other lifts go up just because you squat. The opposite is true infact because of the CNS fatigue of all that heavy squatting and deadlifting.

Kinobody actually practice what he preaches. He has stayed lean for a very very long time. If he is natural he is one of the most impressive guys in the industry.
You admit Those other rather have performance than looks. Thats fine, but thats not what we are discussing on looksmaxx.
Our goal is not to be 25% body fat and lift the most amount of weight we can.

Jason and mark rippletoe are experts in being fat and strong. If i wanted to be fat and strong, i would follow their advice like it was gods own words. But they know nothing about aesthetics, thats the truth. I doubt those guys would even argue that but yet you are here defending them.

You're just nitpicking the things that I say, you don't even address all my points, probably because you have no valid comeback. Rippetoe and Blaha's goals are their own, they have nothing to do with what I was talking about though. And yes Blaha is 15%, he was 25% before back when he was fat, but on the pictures I showed you, we can clearly see his abs so he has to be at 15% body fat. And yes I know that he wasn't natural before, but his advice still works I tried it for myself and on my friend so I know it works.


"Squatting cant and will not make you OHP or bench more. Just like benching more wont make your squat go up. Some of your claims are crazy bro. "

I NEVER SAID THAT.


"Kinobody actually practice what he preaches. He has stayed lean for a very very long time. If he is natural he is one of the most impressive guys in the industry.
You admit Those other rather have performance than looks. Thats fine, but thats not what we are discussing on looksmaxx."

Kinobody has been lifting since he was around 14 years old and he is 29 years old now and he can overhead press 225 lbs, bench press 360 lbs, squat 315 lbs, deadlift 400 lbs. He has 15 years of experience.

So, like I said, it is true that he is really muscular but he is also really strong at the same time, he wouldn't look like he does now if he had focused on accessory lifts like curls and skullcrushers instead.

Also, because he wasn't serious with his training throughout his late teens and early 20s, it took him a very long time to get to that level.

You claim that squat and deadlifts burn the CNS but what you don't realize is that by focusing on strength gain and maintaining a body fat percentage of around 15-20%, in 2-3 years I will reach a 100 lb weighted chin up, a 200 lb overhead press, a 300 lb bench press, a 400 lb squat and a 500 lb deadlift. Then I'll cut down to 10% body fat, and I will be more muscular and more aesthetic than you could ever be. Why? Because instead of starving myself, I will have given my body the tools that it needs to build 40 lbs of muscle and my body will achieve that quicker because of that.

Compound movements for all muscle groups + high frequency + low volume + Proper form + Progressive overload + proper diet (enough calories and protein) + Good sleep (8+ hours) = Muscle and Strength gain

That is the key to gaining muscle, and there is no way around it no matter what you think you read on blogs or from fake natties. The only way to cheat this formula is to take steroids.

 

[ropemaxx]

"Squatting cant and will not make you OHP or bench more. Just like benching more wont make your squat go up. Some of your claims are crazy bro. "

I NEVER SAID THAT.

You keep saying that i if jump on jason blahas program, my strength will somehow skyrocket.

And yes Blaha is 15%,. And yes I know that he wasn't natural before,

So, like I said, it is true that he is really muscular but he is also really strong at the same time, he wouldn't look like he does now if he had focused on accessory lifts like curls and skullcrushers instead.

Also, because he wasn't serious with his training throughout his late teens and early 20s, it took him a very long time to get to that level.

Im prettyy sure kino has always done curls and skull crushers. Obviously none of those two excercises do anything but making your arms bigger. They are also super easy to recover from.
Also why the fuck would you "focus" on those exercises. You throw them in at the end of the workout and do them properly.
Your biceps and triceps will now grow at their maximum potential. This is how you have 1 year lifters like me with bigger arms than powerlifters on this forum who deadlift 500 pounds (true story)


He also got to that level. Mark rippletoe, Jason blaha and 90% of other fitness youtubers never got to that level. They felt comfortable at 15% body fat and stayed there. I never seen anyone irl get close to his level without steroids. You cant deny the accomplishment if he actually is natty. Staying lean year round as a natty is the biggest accomplishment.

You claim that squat and deadlifts burn the CNS but what you don't realize is that by focusing on strength gain and maintaining a body fat percentage of around 15-20%, in 2-3 years I will reach a 100 lb weighted chin up, a 200 lb overhead press, a 300 lb bench press, a 400 lb squat and a 500 lb deadlift. Then I'll cut down to 10% body fat, and I will be more muscular and more aesthetic than you could ever be. Why? Because instead of starving myself, I will have given my body the tools that it needs to build 40 lbs of muscle and my body will achieve that quicker because of that.

Compound movements for all muscle groups + high frequency + low volume + Proper form + Progressive overload + proper diet (enough calories and protein) + Good sleep (8+ hours) = Muscle and Strength gain

That is the key to gaining muscle, and there is no way around it no matter what you think you read on blogs or from fake natties. The only way to cheat this formula is to take steroids.

How do you maintain ur body fat while bulking? are you eating at maintenance calories, or are u in an actual surplus? If you eat in a surplus for 2-3 years, you will be fat as fuck and look like an average mark rippletoe student; big and shapeless.

In 2-3 years you might reach a 100lb weighted chin up. But you might look like shit with 25-30% bodyfat. If you think Jason is 15%, its over for you
There is pros and cons to every side. You will build strength better, but you will also look worse.
in 99% of cases, you look worse when you bulk, unless you are a complete newbie or on steroids. Actually i will make that a 100% of cases.
No one bulks and look better, that doesnt happen and it wont happen for you. So for the next 3 years of your life you will look worse and worse, probably cope and tell yourself that you are "big"

Anyway after that you will have to cut. Cut hard. You will lose strength, who knows how much. You will lose muscle mass.
You will have several weight loss plateaus. You might quit. You might just enjoy staying at 20-25% body fat, at this point you are too used to it. Enjoying all the food, the free lifestyle, energy and non discipline.
You might just become the 10000th Mark Rippletoe student looking like a fat centaur.
Or you succeed, i dont know man. Good luck thought

 

[Deleted member 8832]

Good thread. Read all the replies ngl.
Nice healthy debate b/w size vs aesthetics.

 

[Deleted member 10602]

Good thread. Read all the replies ngl.
Nice healthy debate b/w size vs aesthetics.

is it worth bump?

 

[Essonerian]

Kinobody lies a lot about his body fat percentage and he trained for most of his life at low levels of body fat and because of that, he made very slow progress, it took him over 10 years to reach a level that should have taken him only 3 years and he only did that for the upper body.
He is still a beginner on the lower body since he can't even squat 315 lbs to depth for 5 reps and he can't even deadlift 405 lbs for 5 reps without breaking his back.
He is very good at marketing his shitty programs though by selling them for nearly 100$ each and by increasing the price every few years even though all his stuff is a ripoff of Martin Berkham.

Yes going over 20% body fat is bad, and no you don't have to maintain a high body fat forever.
My point is that to make the most efficient gains possible, to have the best work capacity and the best recovery, you need to eat enough, if you're restricting your calories, you won't be able to train hard enough to make progress and because of that you'll progress slower, I know because I made that exact mistake in the beginning and the weight on the bar wasn't going on, and I always looked the same.

If you absolutely need to get lean for a certain look that you want, it's fine but do it after you've gained all the muscle mass you need to gain. To look good lean, you need to gain at least 30-40 lbs of muscle otherwise you won't look like you lift. If you do this transformation properly on a good program such as ICF 2.0, and you eat enough, you can do it in 2 to 3 years, but if you use Kinobody's shitty programs and follow his intermittent fasting bullshit instead, then, like Kinobody, it will take you many years to achieve that instead of just 2-3 years.

What would you rather do? Do you want to waste 10 years being skinny? Or can you wait 2-3 years before getting lean to get faster and better results? The choice is yours but I guarantee that you will regret it if you make the wrong choice, because you can never get that time back. I started lifting in 2016, I know about all this stuff, I've made lots of mistakes in the beginning and I've had to learn a lot to get to where I am right now so when I say that you'll never succeed at a low body fat, I know what I am talking about.

@Julian thoughts ?

 

[Deleted member 4054]

Kinobody is on drugs, as are all guys with that fitness model look. Not that there's anything wrong with that (I juiced for a decade straight, lifted in black iron gyms where everyone juiced openly), but he has pretty good genetics for aesthetics and definitely juices. You're just not gonna look like him natty, the roundness, hardness, capped delts, unless you have nfl tier genetics.

 

[Essonerian]

Kinobody is on drugs, as are all guys with that fitness model look. Not that there's anything wrong with that (I juiced for a decade straight, lifted in black iron gyms where everyone juiced openly), but he has pretty good genetics for aesthetics and definitely juices. You're just not gonna look like him natty, the roundness, hardness, capped delts, unless you have nfl tier genetics.

Drugs = roids ?

 

[Deleted member 4054]

Drugs = roids ?

Yes

 

[Essonerian]

Yes

How can it be worth it loosing your dick and hair just to attract some dumb low class whore

 

[pizza]

is all about abs nude halo

 

[Artemide]

is all about abs nude halo

are you pizza the chad with infraorbital implants?

 

[pizza]

are you pizza the chad with infraorbital implants?

recessed infraorbital

 

[Deleted member 4054]

How can it be worth it loosing your dick and hair just to attract some dumb low class whore

I dunno man I juiced for 10 years straight with neither of those sides. But in his case it's definitely worth it because his physique makes him millions