WILL SERMS LIKE ENCLO CAUSE GROWTH PLATES TO FUSE?

[Saint Casanova]

Title and could this be mitigated with an AI and low doses ?

 

[Saint Casanova]

Ip

 

[Saint Casanova]

Up @pessimistic @Osie

 

[Saint Casanova]

Up

 

[Saint Casanova]

Up

 

[Saint Casanova]

Up

 

[ItsOverCel]

Yes cuz they increase e2 levels

 

[Saint Casanova]

Yes cuz they increase e2 levels

Is that because enclo antagonises the estrogen receptors in bone or because the increased test results in more aromitastion ?

The distinction is very important cause then you can take an AI or lower dose to prevent that happening.

 

[Saint Casanova]

up

 

[Saint Casanova]

Up

 

[Deleted member 23391]

in theory yes, also decreases IGF-1 unless you take androgens with it

avoid unless you are fully grown

 

[Saint Casanova]

in theory yes, also decreases IGF-1 unless you take androgens with it

avoid unless you are fully grown

Is that because enclo agonises the estrogen receptors in bone or because the increased test results in more aromitastion ?

 

[Saint Casanova]

in theory yes, also decreases IGF-1 unless you take androgens with it

avoid unless you are fully grown

And what age is fully grown ? I’m 19 now.

Frame and clavicle grows into your 20s, no ?

 

[Osie]

Title and could this be mitigated with an AI and low doses ?

Yes

 

[Saint Casanova]

Yes

Yes to the former, latter or both ? Which of these reasons caused this:
Is that because enclo agonises the estrogen receptors in bone or because the increased test results in more aromitastion ?

 

[awesomemc101]

if you pair it with an AI i think it’s fine. i’m bouta do cjc and ipamorelin on top of enclo and aromasin @ 16y

 

[Saint Casanova]

if you pair it with an AI i think it’s fine. i’m bouta do cjc and ipamorelin on top of enclo and aromasin @ 16y

That may be the case if the issue is from aromatisation due to increased test, but not if the SERM agonises receptors in the bone!

That’s what I’m trying to figure out, which is the reason behind this.

 

[Van]

Title and could this be mitigated with an AI and low doses ?

answer to title: yes

 

[Saint Casanova]

answer to title: yes

Explain why.

 

[Saint Casanova]

Yes to the former, latter or both ? Which of these reasons caused this:
Is that because enclo agonises the estrogen receptors in bone or because the increased test results in more aromitastion ?

Which one is it @Osie @pessimistic

 

[Deleted member 23391]

Yes to the former, latter or both ? Which of these reasons caused this:
Is that because enclo agonises the estrogen receptors in bone or because the increased test results in more aromitastion ?

both

 

[Saint Casanova]

both

so how do you PCT? All serms do this.

 

[Deleted member 23391]

so how do you PCT? All serms do this.

HCG on cycle and up until 2 half lives later then come completely off.

 

[Saint Casanova]

HCG on cycle and up until 2 half lives later then come completely off.

What about for sarms? Wouldn’t HCG also raise estrogen ?

 

[Deleted member 4946]

What about for sarms? Wouldn’t HCG also raise estrogen ?

it's not just this, other SERMS like tamoxifen and Nolvadex stunt growth. There is a very high chance that enclo has this effect, not just because of the higher E2 levels, in other words if you have taken this already, you most likely have stunted your growth already to some extent

Quote: 'tamoxifen has caused irreversible death of growth plate cells, a precursor to the fusion of the growth plates. In some instances, tamoxifen has been given to end the growth of very tall girls. Tamoxifen also greatly stunts growth hormone secretion and IGF-1 production. Tamoxifen is an anti-breast cancer drug. Not a bodybuilding drug. Bodybuilding and anti-estrogen is an off-label use of tamoxifen. Lowered GH and IGF-1 is good for breast cancer, but bad for growth. Take home lesson: Avoid tamoxifen or Nolvadex.'

 

[Osie]

it's not just this, other SERMS like tamoxifen and Nolvadex stunt growth. There is a very high chance that enclo has this effect, not just because of the higher E2 levels, in other words if you have taken this already, you most likely have stunted your growth already to some extent

Quote: 'tamoxifen has caused irreversible death of growth plate cells, a precursor to the fusion of the growth plates. In some instances, tamoxifen has been given to end the growth of very tall girls. Tamoxifen also greatly stunts growth hormone secretion and IGF-1 production. Tamoxifen is an anti-breast cancer drug. Not a bodybuilding drug. Bodybuilding and anti-estrogen is an off-label use of tamoxifen. Lowered GH and IGF-1 is good for breast cancer, but bad for growth. Take home lesson: Avoid tamoxifen or Nolvadex.'

Mhmm, I agree. Overall, taking serms in any context where height growth is involved is pretty dangerous. It slows growth rate down significantly through lowered IGF-1 like you said and increases E2 in some men by more than 10-15pg/ml.
Taking AI, you get similar test levels increases in most guys without the added e2 increase. However, the test increase in both causes negligible muscle enhancing effects

 

[Tallest person here]

if you pair it with an AI i think it’s fine. i’m bouta do cjc and ipamorelin on top of enclo and aromasin @ 16y

Currently Doing enclo and aromasin at same age too

 

[Tallest person here]

Mhmm, I agree. Overall, taking serms in any context where height growth is involved is pretty dangerous. It slows growth rate down significantly through lowered IGF-1 like you said and increases E2 in some men by more than 10-15pg/ml.
Taking AI, you get similar test levels increases in most guys without the added e2 increase. However, the test increase in both causes negligible muscle enhancing effects

So do you think if I’m 16 and on enclo and aromasin I should stop enclo if there’s a possibility I grow

 

[Tallest person here]

it's not just this, other SERMS like tamoxifen and Nolvadex stunt growth. There is a very high chance that enclo has this effect, not just because of the higher E2 levels, in other words if you have taken this already, you most likely have stunted your growth already to some extent

Quote: 'tamoxifen has caused irreversible death of growth plate cells, a precursor to the fusion of the growth plates. In some instances, tamoxifen has been given to end the growth of very tall girls. Tamoxifen also greatly stunts growth hormone secretion and IGF-1 production. Tamoxifen is an anti-breast cancer drug. Not a bodybuilding drug. Bodybuilding and anti-estrogen is an off-label use of tamoxifen. Lowered GH and IGF-1 is good for breast cancer, but bad for growth. Take home lesson: Avoid tamoxifen or Nolvadex.'

Lol I’ve been taking it on and off for like a month I’m going to kill myself

 

[Osie]

Lol I’ve been taking it on and off for like a month I’m going to kill myself

Why?

 

[Bitchwhipper2]

Is that because enclo agonises the estrogen receptors in bone or because the increased test results in more aromitastion ?

Theres no research on enclomiphenes effect on estrogen receptors in bone.

Id say its better to stay on the safe side and take nolvadex instead as its proven to allow kids to grow taller

 

[Tallest person here]

Why?

Why what you vague cunt

 

[Tallest person here]

Theres no research on enclomiphenes effect on estrogen receptors in bone.

Id say its better to stay on the safe side and take nolvadex instead as its proven to allow kids to grow taller

Do u know if it’s like the Raloxifene study where the children with the short syndrome still grew despite being given raloxifene but they also were given HGH

 

[Osie]

Why what you vague cunt

Why did you take it? It seems like you were trying to use it for heightmaxxing purposes, but why though? What research led you to choosing a SERM instead of AI?

 

[Osie]

Do u know if it’s like the Raloxifene study where the children with the short syndrome still grew despite being given raloxifene but they also were given HGH

They most likely grew mostly because of the HGH, but it’s possibly the Raloxifiene COULDVE helped, but I don’t think it’s potent enough on its own for height growth.

 

[Tallest person here]

Why did you take it? It seems like you were trying to use it for heightmaxxing purposes, but why though? What research led you to choosing a SERM instead of AI?

I’m on enclo and aromasin, I was being a tard and thought that increased test from enclo would give me wider clavicles and help with muscle which it might have actually done but not that noticeably to be able to tell if it’s not placebo and I don’t measure cause I’m not gay . Aromasin to lower e2 levels from increased test and now it’s just to maintain open growth plates

 

[Tallest person here]

They most likely grew mostly because of the HGH, but it’s possibly the Raloxifiene COULDVE helped, but I don’t think it’s potent enough on its own for height growth.

Saw a study on Tamoxifene done on HUMAN!! not rats that said: No significant effect on skeletal maturation was found (p=1.112). We conclude that when pubertal bone development is concerned, tamoxifen is safe for the treatment of pubertal gynecomastia as neither bone mineralization nor growth potential was affected.

I don’t know much but I assume tamoxifene and Raloxifene and Enclomiphene work similarly so can we assume that taking a SERM would affect humans like it does for rats

 

[Saint Casanova]

Saw a study on Tamoxifene done on HUMAN!! not rats that said: No significant effect on skeletal maturation was found (p=1.112). We conclude that when pubertal bone development is concerned, tamoxifen is safe for the treatment of pubertal gynecomastia as neither bone mineralization nor growth potential was affected.

I don’t know much but I assume tamoxifene and Raloxifene and Enclomiphene work similarly so can we assume that taking a SERM would affect humans like it does for rats

@pessimistic what do you think of this ?

 

[Saint Casanova]

it's not just this, other SERMS like tamoxifen and Nolvadex stunt growth. There is a very high chance that enclo has this effect, not just because of the higher E2 levels, in other words if you have taken this already, you most likely have stunted your growth already to some extent

Quote: 'tamoxifen has caused irreversible death of growth plate cells, a precursor to the fusion of the growth plates. In some instances, tamoxifen has been given to end the growth of very tall girls. Tamoxifen also greatly stunts growth hormone secretion and IGF-1 production. Tamoxifen is an anti-breast cancer drug. Not a bodybuilding drug. Bodybuilding and anti-estrogen is an off-label use of tamoxifen. Lowered GH and IGF-1 is good for breast cancer, but bad for growth. Take home lesson: Avoid tamoxifen or Nolvadex.'

Except that enclomphiene is supposedly more selective and targets Er receptors in the brain to increase LH and FSH. You can’t necessarily say it’s not a bb drug when it’s used for gyno management.

3 days of the lowest dose with enclo shouldn’t have raised e or binded to receptors in that little time either way.

 

[Saint Casanova]

Saw a study on Tamoxifene done on HUMAN!! not rats that said: No significant effect on skeletal maturation was found (p=1.112). We conclude that when pubertal bone development is concerned, tamoxifen is safe for the treatment of pubertal gynecomastia as neither bone mineralization nor growth potential was affected.

I don’t know much but I assume tamoxifene and Raloxifene and Enclomiphene work similarly so can we assume that taking a SERM would affect humans like it does for rats

Yeah but the other study was also done on humans saying tamox closed or helped close growth plates. Not sure if that’s due to it acting on the ER receptors or just increased estrogen.

What’s your Aromasin dose ?

 

[Tallest person here]

Yeah but the other study was also done on humans saying tamox closed or helped close growth plates. Not sure if that’s due to it acting on the ER receptors or just increased estrogen.

What’s your Aromasin dose ?

Only on 12.5 mg a day, I haven’t seen that study yet so I’m not sure what to believe since they keep contradicting

 

[mfk]

Is that because enclo antagonises the estrogen receptors in bone or because the increased test results in more aromitastion ?

The distinction is very important cause then you can take an AI or lower dose to prevent that happening.

The latter is true, Enclomiphene is selective and only antagonizes estrogen receptors in the brain.

 

[Saint Casanova]

The latter is true, Enclomiphene is selective and only antagonizes estrogen receptors in the brain.

It supposedly is, but we don’t know how it affects tissue. We also don’t know if UGL enclo is like pharma enclo, they could just put clomid in there.

 

[Saint Casanova]

Only on 12.5 mg a day, I haven’t seen that study yet so I’m not sure what to believe since they keep contradicting

No low e side effects ?

 

[Osie]

Saw a study on Tamoxifene done on HUMAN!! not rats that said: No significant effect on skeletal maturation was found (p=1.112). We conclude that when pubertal bone development is concerned, tamoxifen is safe for the treatment of pubertal gynecomastia as neither bone mineralization nor growth potential was affected.

I don’t know much but I assume tamoxifene and Raloxifene and Enclomiphene work similarly so can we assume that taking a SERM would affect humans like it does for rats.

Enclomiphene does not work similarly to raloxfiene or tamoxifen.

 

[Osie]

I’m on enclo and aromasin, I was being a tard and thought that increased test from enclo would give me wider clavicles and help with muscle which it might have actually done but not that noticeably to be able to tell if it’s not placebo and I don’t measure cause I’m not gay . Aromasin to lower e2 levels from increased test and now it’s just to maintain open growth plates

Well, your stack isn’t horrible but the issue is without an growth hormone booster, your IGF-1 are in the gutter.

Aromasin already reduces IGF-1 by around 15-18% and adding in enclomiphene into the mix makes it even worse

 

[Saint Casanova]

Enclomiphene does not work similarly to raloxfiene or tamoxifen.

But ralox and tamox is worse, it has been shown in studies it can act on tissue and bone receptors.

Enclo doesn’t have that, at least shown in studies.

 

[Tallest person here]

No low e side effects ?

It’s not been long and I assume aromasin isn’t strong enough on it’s own for that and Enclomiphene (which I will no longer take) would cause extra estrogen??? Due to aromatazation tbh I made that part up idk if it holds up I don’t really care about low estrogen side effects high estrogen side effects are much worsw

 

[Tallest person here]

Well, your stack isn’t horrible but the issue is without an growth hormone booster, your IGF-1 are in the gutter.

Aromasin already reduces IGF-1 by around 15-18% and adding in enclomiphene into the mix makes it even worse

Any good ideas on what to take for higher igf1 levels , hgh isn’t an option unless it’s cheap. I live in uk and I’m about to run into some money maybe pm sources if you have

 

[Tallest person here]

Enclomiphene does not work similarly to raloxfiene or tamoxifen.

Hopefully this mean that the month and a bit I was on enclo won’t give me aids and diseased growth plates