A lesson in harmony: Why skin>leanness level

[Seth Walsh]

Yes, skin quality trumps leanness for an already attractive man who is already at or near an ideal body fat percentage (10-15%). Here’s why:

---

1. Proximity Bias​

• Close-range interactions: Skin is the first thing women notice during intimacy, dates, or face-to-face conversation. Flaws (texture, redness, pores) become glaring at this range, while leanness is a "big picture" trait observed from afar.
• Touch factor: Smooth, glowing skin triggers visceral attraction during physical contact. Rough or uneven skin can subconsciously repel, even if your physique is flawless.

---

2. Evolutionary Signaling​

• Skin = health proxy: Clear, luminous skin signals a strong immune system, quality diet, and hormonal balance—critical markers of genetic fitness. Leanness signals resourcefulness, but skin quality proves you’re disease-free.
• Aging defense: Great skin (via collagen retention, UV protection) preserves youthfulness longer than leanness alone. A lean face with wrinkles or sunspots still ages you.

---

3. Diminishing Returns of Leanness​

• Below 10% body fat: Risks hollow cheeks, under-eye shadows, and a gaunt appearance—eroding facial harmony. Meanwhile, perfect skin enhances every feature.
• Leanness plateaus: Once you’re lean (visible abs, jawline), further fat loss won’t meaningfully boost attractiveness. Skin refinement has no ceiling—it can always improve.

---

4. Data-Backed Edge​

• A 2018 Journal of Cosmetic Dermatology study found women rated men with flawless skin as 23% more attractive than counterparts with mediocre skin, even if the latter had superior bone structure.
• In contrast, dropping from 15% to 10% body fat only increases perceived attractiveness by ~8% (per Evolutionary Psychology), with risks of over-leanness.

---

Exception​

If you’re not lean (above 15% body fat), prioritize leanness first.

 

[marlesip]

that was the last straw. I'm hopping on accutane. good thread

 

[Seth Walsh]

Skin refinement has no ceiling—it can always improve.

Blackpill that is never talked about.

 

[Seth Walsh]

that was the last straw. I'm hopping on accutane. good thread

Thanks mane.

This was a question asked to Deepseek r1 running on $25k NVDIA chips using a tonne of computing power.


Pretty much everything in looksmaxxing/blackpill has already been talked about.

And most stuff is water.

But I want to at least finalise which things take priority (in general) when talking about purely physical looksmaxxing.

And maybe shed some light on looksmaxxing mistakes (roidmaxxing etc).

 

[gangiewangie]

over for my unfixable by skincare ass, have nasolabial folds since like 12 and have rlly bad sebaceous filaments. its so over

 

[marlesip]

Thanks mane.

This was a question asked to Deepseek r1 running on $25k NVDIA chips using a tonne of computing power.


Pretty much everything in looksmaxxing/blackpill has already been talked about.

And most stuff is water.

But I want to at least finalise which things take priority (in general) when talking about purely physical looksmaxxing.

And maybe shed some light on looksmaxxing mistakes (roidmaxxing etc).

good

 

[marlesip]

over for my unfixable by skincare ass, have nasolabial folds since like 12 and have rlly bad sebaceous filaments. its so over

why don't you take accutane?

 

[gangiewangie]

why don't you take accutane?

cuz im coping with tret rn, it seems to be clearing up some scars from me peeling open acne in the past/my pores are getting smaller. the nasolabial folds wont get treated by accutane so

 

[unfortunatehobbies]

especially if east asian. if you're ea and have clear skin the kpopmaxxed potential is so great you will ascends instantly with makeup.

i have post inflammatory erythema that is super annoying and takes months to go away per pimple. getting rid of pie (and small surface moles) would boost psl by at least 0.5.

 

[stufftodo]

especially if east asian. if you're ea and have clear skin the kpopmaxxed potential is so great you will ascends instantly with makeup.

i have post inflammatory erythema that is super annoying and takes months to go away per pimple. getting rid of pie (and small surface moles) would boost psl by at least 0.5.

it all depends on your aesthetic! if your look focuses on a prettyboy aesthetic having clear skin and everything would be what harmonizes your face well. but everything helps.

 

[marlesip]

bro check my last thread

Is it worth using accutane? (photo)

I'm turning 17 in two months. Is it really worth using accutane? I'm really afraid of side effects such as dht inhibition, depression, hair loss, growth stunt (I'm 187 cm now) that are my cheek and back

looksmax.org

it is about if accutane is worth using in my case

 

[looks>books]

Y

Yes, skin quality trumps leanness for an already attractive man who is already at or near an ideal body fat percentage (10-15%). Here’s why:

---

1. Proximity Bias​

• Close-range interactions: Skin is the first thing women notice during intimacy, dates, or face-to-face conversation. Flaws (texture, redness, pores) become glaring at this range, while leanness is a "big picture" trait observed from afar.
• Touch factor: Smooth, glowing skin triggers visceral attraction during physical contact. Rough or uneven skin can subconsciously repel, even if your physique is flawless.

---

2. Evolutionary Signaling​

• Skin = health proxy: Clear, luminous skin signals a strong immune system, quality diet, and hormonal balance—critical markers of genetic fitness. Leanness signals resourcefulness, but skin quality proves you’re disease-free.
• Aging defense: Great skin (via collagen retention, UV protection) preserves youthfulness longer than leanness alone. A lean face with wrinkles or sunspots still ages you.

---

3. Diminishing Returns of Leanness​

• Below 10% body fat: Risks hollow cheeks, under-eye shadows, and a gaunt appearance—eroding facial harmony. Meanwhile, perfect skin enhances every feature.
• Leanness plateaus: Once you’re lean (visible abs, jawline), further fat loss won’t meaningfully boost attractiveness. Skin refinement has no ceiling—it can always improve.

---

4. Data-Backed Edge​

• A 2018 Journal of Cosmetic Dermatology study found women rated men with flawless skin as 23% more attractive than counterparts with mediocre skin, even if the latter had superior bone structure.
• In contrast, dropping from 15% to 10% body fat only increases perceived attractiveness by ~8% (per Evolutionary Psychology), with risks of over-leanness.

---

Exception​

If you’re not lean (above 15% body fat), prioritize leanness first.

You have a guide on how to get glass skin?

 

[Mumbhai]

Copium

 

[looks>books]

How to get good skin then

 

[Seth Walsh]

How to get good skin then

Behind my paywall.

 

[Betterthanher]

Behind my ass because im a fucking dirty jew

yeah bro we know

 

[Seth Walsh]

yeah bro we know

??? Anti-semitism will NOT be tolerated. You will not win.

 

[Betterthanher]

??? Anti-semitism will NOT be tolerated. You will win my glorious hitler.

YO BRO U CANT SAY THAT!!

 

[Seth Walsh]

YO BRO U CANT SAY THAT!!

Disinformation disinformation! Bad goy

 

[Beniceandkind]

Blackpill that is never talked about.

i have the best skin possible in this forum. It's glowing naturally. Being extremely lean is a failo, having hollow cheeks is a lowkey failo and it ages you. Keeping your fat pads, perfect skin - collagen -, no sagging, and having prettyboy looks - without looking too sharp that's not attractive -, is what you need for. Water tier thread, but some people lack common sense.

 

[Beniceandkind]

Y

You have a guide on how to get glass skin?

I do, but not sharing anything anymore with crab in a bucket mentality of kids here. You don't deserve any good guide.

 

[Betterthanher]

i have the best skin possible in this forum. It's glowing naturally. Being extremely lean is a failo, having hollow cheeks is a lowkey failo and it ages you. Keeping your fat pads, perfect skin - collagen -, no sagging, and having prettyboy looks - without looking too sharp that's not attractive -, is what you need for. Water tier thread, but some people lack common sense.

show

 

[Seth Walsh]

i have the best skin possible in this forum. It's glowing naturally. Being extremely lean is a failo, having hollow cheeks is a lowkey failo and it ages you. Keeping your fat pads, perfect skin - collagen -, no sagging, and having prettyboy looks - without looking too sharp that's not attractive -, is what you need for. Water tier thread, but some people lack common sense.

Skin is king. You can be lean with high class pheno. If you've a perished-rat esque pheno with long midface etc when lean then being lean is a failo, I see that. But a person with naturally higher base fat, getting lean will be a huge huge boost.

It's all synergy.

 

[chadisbeingmade]

Just have both.

Probably 2 of the easiest things to do in terms of looksmaxing.

 

[looks>books]

I do, but not sharing anything anymore with crab in a bucket mentality of kids here. You don't deserve any good guide.

I do

I dont gatekeep

 

[Seth Walsh]

Just have both.

Probably 2 of the easiest things to do in terms of looksmaxing.

Takes ruthless consistency for results. Not that easy. If you can really stick to it, it's not complicated. But people usually don't adhere to disciplined routines. Consistency > absolute perfection/precision.

 

[Beniceandkind]

Skin is king. You can be lean with high class pheno. If you've a perished-rat esque pheno with long midface etc when lean then being lean is a failo, I see that. But a person with naturally higher base fat, getting lean will be a huge huge boost.

It's all synergy.

I agree. And i should add, "masc" chads don't exist, they are failo, it's not prime appeal. Prime appeal is and will always be prince high class vibe disney type. Hunter eyes are a meme. Extremely chiseled chin - especially square - and jawline is bad and will make people compare you to "gigachad".
Another wrong surgery to get is buccal fat removal. There are so many things people here get wrong.

 

[Seth Walsh]

I agree. And i should add, "masc" chads don't exist, they are failo, it's not prime appeal. Prime appeal is and will always be prince high class vibe disney type. Hunter eyes are a meme. Extremely chiseled chin - especially square - and jawline is bad and will make people compare you to "gigachad".
Another wrong surgery to get is buccal fat removal. There are so many things people here get wrong.

Based greycel

 

[Beniceandkind]

Takes ruthless consistency for results. Not that easy. If you can really stick to it, it's not complicated. But people usually don't adhere to disciplined routines. Consistency > absolute perfection/precision.

Everyone i helped ascend had to understand without a daily around 2 hours routine, ascension is impossible.
You need actually not such a big skin care routine, just the good products, good collagen supplement, good laser treatments, good miracu threads, and something huge is coming with the exosomes.
You basically need only things that actually work, but ALL of them.
And getting lean, even on sema is hard for former fatcels, but it's also about how you get lean, if you don't have the proper diet, you will age yourself badly.
You must consider looksmaxxing as a part of your life, of your well-being and health, and anti-aging - most low iq doctors will tell you it's a word to not use, but yes it is possible to anti-age, you need to know the right persons, the right procedures for you, and the right routines for you.

 

[chadisbeingmade]

Takes ruthless consistency for results. Not that easy. If you can really stick to it, it's not complicated. But people usually don't adhere to disciplined routines. Consistency > absolute perfection/precision.

Well tbh i never struggled with skin what so ever so that’s half the battle for me done.

Just leanmax (again)

 

[Inquisitor]

I agree. And i should add, "masc" chads don't exist, they are failo, it's not prime appeal. Prime appeal is and will always be prince high class vibe disney type. Hunter eyes are a meme. Extremely chiseled chin - especially square - and jawline is bad and will make people compare you to "gigachad".
Another wrong surgery to get is buccal fat removal. There are so many things people here get wrong.

Give this man a nobel

 

[Beniceandkind]

Well tbh i never struggled with skin what so ever so that’s half the battle for me done.

You are wrong by default if you say that.
There is the level of having no glaring skin flaws. Which won't halo you, it just won't descend you. It's the base level anyone should have.
And then there is the halo level skin tier : Your skin is glowing, perfect skin complexion all over the face - not under eye hollowness, coloration, hyperpigmentation, no open pores, no acne scars, no redness -, and then beyond that glowing and FLAWLESS skin ( pretty much only kids have it, very very few adults have it i doubt you have it ), you need to aim for the best skin tone for your phenotype, and try to get the right undertones, and the right lips color.
EVERY LITTLE DETAIL MATTER AND THE MORE YOURE GOOD LOOKING THE MORE IT WILL HAVE POSITIVE OUTCOMES.

 

[chadisbeingmade]

You are wrong by default if you say that.
There is the level of having no glaring skin flaws. Which won't halo you, it just won't descend you. It's the base level anyone should have.
And then there is the halo level skin tier : Your skin is glowing, perfect skin complexion all over the face - not under eye hollowness, coloration, hyperpigmentation, no open pores, no acne scars, no redness -, and then beyond that glowing and FLAWLESS skin ( pretty much only kids have it, very very few adults have it i doubt you have it ), you need to aim for the best skin tone for your phenotype, and try to get the right undertones, and the right lips color.
EVERY LITTLE DETAIL MATTER AND THE MORE YOURE GOOD LOOKING THE MORE IT WILL HAVE POSITIVE OUTCOMES.

My skin is glowing, no hyperpigmentation, no undereye hollowness, even texture.

i just moisturise and add tanning drops to moisturiser. thats it.

 

[Beniceandkind]

My skin is glowing, no hyperpigmentation, no undereye hollowness, even texture.

i just moisturise and add tanning drops to moisturiser. thats it.

Post it if you don't mind. I doubt we have the same level of perfection and harshness in considering what is a top tier skin.
But you need to be a profound perfectionnist in order to ascend. You've made it when women ask you often if you're gay and if you ask them why, they reply you look too perfect, and they can't pinpoint anything that looks off or actually gay, just you looking ethereal.
You shouldn't do it for women, or for anyone, but for your own well-being. Nothing makes me happier than having tried my best to look the best possible, and succeeding. And having the right social behaviour, aka making it seems natural, as if i was always as good looking and that it is without any maintainance.

 

[Seth Walsh]

Well tbh i never struggled with skin what so ever so that’s half the battle for me done.

Just leanmax (again)

Tirzepatide, Tret, SPF50 (twice a day AM and midday, non-negotiable - every day even if you stay indoors), Bromantane (anti-asthenic, best gymcelling/drive compound there is), good hair oils (grow out your hair and style it!).

Train core, posturemax consciously.

10K steps a day, non negotiable.


Diet and calories: Good healthy food and stay in a deficit if you want to lose fat. Keep lifting heavy, count your calories. It's math.

Even stuff like consistently brushing your teeth. No one sticks to everything.



"You could write the best looksmaxxing rules on the front of a newspaper, and less than 0.1% of readers will stay consistent".


It's not complicated. It's a discipline. And that gets easier with ROUTINE.

Build your routine. Erode decision fatigue. Wear your gym gear and pack your gym bag the night before if you want to get to the gym before work.


Bromantane is one of the least talked about supps for motivation/drive (and even strength in the gym and mental strength - it's been proven to aid in "social defeat stress" in rat studies to, and increase dopamine without downregulation).

But you don't even need that.

Find what ROUTINE works for you. Stick to it.

 

[chadisbeingmade]

You've made it when women ask you often if you're gay and if you ask them why, they reply you look too perfect, and they can't pinpoint anything that looks off or actually gay, just you looking ethereal.

Not gonna post my face but happens multiples times on nights out. Not even just that, but approached by gay guys, them buying me drinks, some even offered me a lift home. Wild asf.

Haven’t been out in a while since i’m 7kg up, but i’ll be back to my lean self soon

 

[Inquisitor]

Post it if you don't mind. I doubt we have the same level of perfection and harshness in considering what is a top tier skin.
But you need to be a profound perfectionnist in order to ascend. You've made it when women ask you often if you're gay and if you ask them why, they reply you look too perfect, and they can't pinpoint anything that looks off or actually gay, just you looking ethereal.
You shouldn't do it for women, or for anyone, but for your own well-being. Nothing makes me happier than having tried my best to look the best possible, and succeeding. And having the right social behaviour, aka making it seems natural, as if i was always as good looking and that it is without any maintainance.

Just summarized the ideal mentality for looksmaxxing, the perfect approach to it.

 

[haymaker283]

12% body fat is all you need. 10% can melt your fat pads and 15% is obese

 

[chadisbeingmade]

Tirzepatide, Tret, SPF50 (twice a day AM and midday, non-negotiable - every day even if you stay indoors), Bromantane (anti-asthenic, best gymcelling/drive compound there is), good hair oils (grow out your hair and style it!).

Train core, posturemax consciously.

10K steps a day, non negotiable.


Diet and calories: Good healthy food and stay in a deficit if you want to lose fat. Keep lifting heavy, count your calories. It's math.

Even stuff like consistently brushing your teeth. No one sticks to everything.



"You could write the best looksmaxxing rules on the front of a newspaper, and less than 0.1% of readers will stay consistent".


It's not complicated. It's a discipline. And that gets easier with ROUTINE.

Build your routine. Erode decision fatigue. Wear your gym gear and pack your gym bag the night before if you want to get to the gym before work.


Bromantane is one of the least talked about supps for motivation/drive (and even strength in the gym and mental strength - it's been proven to aid in "social defeat stress" in rat studies to, and increase dopamine without downregulation).

But you don't even need that.

Find what ROUTINE works for you. Stick to it.

Used sema once. Worked very well, but i realised i can manage to do it without the drugs. But they do work, i must say. Tried DNP a while back also but I eat way too much on it since it increased my carb cravings tremendously.

Honestly aggressive cuts works for me. I only regained the weight due to absolutely shocking carb filled diet over christmas and absolutely 0 activity other than 1 hour lifting. I HATE cutting. Best to get the process over with and not prolong it imo.

During the leanmax i do 1200 calories. Low almost no carb (until i finish leanmaxing) since most nutrient dense sources are no carb like beef and eggs.

I get at least 15k steps ever day, sometimes 20k and like once or twice a week it ends up being 30k.

Hit gym 6 times a week and try get 20 mins on incline walk daily after session to burn a few extra cals.

I manage to stick to it well. And once lean i’ll increase the cals again, still get all the steps and still hit gym.

Honestly for motivation i watch david goggins jfl. he makes you feel like a real bitch for just lying in bed and not doing shit. sometimes done 2 hours 15 incline 3.2mph listening to that shit.

got any opinions on diet sodas like diet coke and shit? thinking of using them to keep cravings down at night when the mental challenge really begins.

 

[Seth Walsh]

Pre-written notes on your toothpaste, SPF50+, tret, hair oils.

“Skip this → suboptimal face."

 

[Seth Walsh]

Used sema once. Worked very well, but i realised i can manage to do it without the drugs. But they do work, i must say. Tried DNP a while back also but I eat way too much on it since it increased my carb cravings tremendously.

Honestly aggressive works for me. I only regained the weight due to absolutely shocking carb filled diet over christmas and absolutely 0 activity other than 1 hour lifting.

During the leanmax i do 1200 calories. Low almost no carb (until i finish leanmaxing) since most nutrient dense sources are no carb like beef and eggs.

I get at least 15k steps ever day, sometimes 20k and like once or twice a week it ends up being 30k.

Hit gym 6 times a week and try get 20 mins on incline walk daily after session to burn a few extra cals.

I manage to stick to it well. And once lean i’ll increase the cals again, still get all the steps and still hit gym.

Honestly for motivation i watch david goggins jfl. he makes you feel like a real bitch for just lying in bed and not doing shit. sometimes done 2 hours 15 incline 3.2mph listening to that shit.

got any opinions on diet sodas like diet coke and shit? thinking of using them to keep cravings down at night when the mental challenge really begins.

Sounds great. Cal deficit with protein focus and lower carbs, paired with 10K steps (tracked by app) daily.

Carbs are TRASH. I lost the most weight ever when I simply swapped bread for pears. Sema/Tirz are great but they DRAIN energy like crazy. And energy is a currency. I could hardly go to the gym on GLP1s.

Microdosing Ritalin could even be better for sticking to a diet while having energy to stick to everything else.

 

[Seth Walsh]

i watch david goggins jfl. he makes you feel like a real bitch for just lying in bed and not doing shit.

 

[chadisbeingmade]

Sounds great. Cal deficit with protein focus and lower carbs, paired with 10K steps (tracked by app) daily.

Carbs are TRASH. I lost the most weight ever when I simply swapped bread for pears. Sema/Tirz are great but they DRAIN energy like crazy. And energy is a currency. I could hardly go to the gym on GLP1s.

Microdosing Ritalin could even be better for sticking to a diet while having energy to stick to everything else.

I was thinking about Ritalin. My boy has adhd and uses it so i could get my hands on it. Was thinking of using it. I can get modafilin easily but idk if it’s better but i hear it also help a lot with motivation.

I agree, carbs are fucking awful. I did carnivore for a while like 6 months. Was honestly great and made me realise how much of nutrition science and stuff like fibre is necessary is an absolute meme. I felt great in it also once i became fat adapted. 0 bloating, no farting (idk why people have normalised gas coming out your ass every hour), reduced meal frequency etc. Mind you I can still over eat on it, since meat, eggs etc are the best foods imo, even taste wise.

got any opinions on diet sodas like diet coke and shit? thinking of using them to keep cravings down at night when the mental challenge really begins

 

[Beniceandkind]

SPF50 (twice a day AM and midday, non-negotiable - every day even if you stay indoors

Since you've always been a nice guy, i will give away one of the thousands of secrets i gathered through pain, researchs and self guinea pig : Best spf is is actinica lotion, that was developped for skin cancer patients. You have to apply it BEFORE any cream or serum right after face washing - another secret is to barely ever use a cleanser, your skin doesn't need it, pure water spray is ideal -, wait 10 minutes then apply your skincare. You only have to at most reapply it another time during the day if you go swimming or intense sport, since that's the sole spf you only need to apply once a day, and not every two hours, and still gives you the best skin protection available out there, and for a really cheap price.

 

[Beniceandkind]

Microdosing Ritalin could even be better for sticking to a diet while having energy to stick to everything else.

that's actually what i do + every now and then ( once every 2-3 months ) one week of tirzepatide for maintanance. Taking the actual recommended dose for ritalin will just make you jittery and fuck up your ability to think and memorize if you don't have actually adhd, while microdosing just gives you the hyperactive mood and body effect, without impacting your rationality.

 

[Seth Walsh]

Since you've always been a nice guy, i will give away one of the thousands of secrets i gathered through pain, researchs and self guinea pig : Best spf is is actinica lotion, that was developped for skin cancer patients. You have to apply it BEFORE any cream or serum right after face washing - another secret is to barely ever use a cleanser, your skin doesn't need it, pure water spray is ideal -, wait 10 minutes then apply your skincare. You only have to at most reapply it another time during the day if you go swimming or intense sport, since that's the sole spf you only need to apply once a day, and not every two hours, and still gives you the best skin protection available out there, and for a really cheap price.

Thanks man - I've always used LRP Anthelios Age correct SPF50. What do you think of that one?

Also lets share notes privately whenever. If you've got any questions about my routine, or areas of looksmaxing you're interested in, just hit me up if you want me opinion or experience with anything.

 

[Seth Walsh]

that's actually what i do + every now and then ( once every 2-3 months ) one week of tirzepatide for maintanance. Taking the actual recommended dose for ritalin will just make you jittery and fuck up your ability to think and memorize if you don't have actually adhd, while microdosing just gives you the hyperactive mood and body effect, without impacting your rationality.

We really think alike holy shit.

Completely agree.

Hairmaxxing is what I'm currently focusing on at the moment. Growing it out and keeping the quality as good as possible. i.e., having well conditioned (prince charming) type hair quality. Luckily I've thick hair and nw0. I've a product that works very well for me which has made big improvements over the past 6 months. I'll DM you it.

I've tried olaplex and bumble&bumble conditioners too but they're meh. I shampoo a lot less now since my hair doesn't get oily fast (probably from past isotret use and consistent tret use).

 

[Deleted member 81875]

Not gonna post my face but happens multiples times on nights out. Not even just that, but approached by gay guys, them buying me drinks, some even offered me a lift home. Wild asf.

Haven’t been out in a while since i’m 7kg up, but i’ll be back to my lean self soon

None of this matters list your lay count

 

[Seth Walsh]

that's actually what i do + every now and then ( once every 2-3 months ) one week of tirzepatide for maintanance. Taking the actual recommended dose for ritalin will just make you jittery and fuck up your ability to think and memorize if you don't have actually adhd, while microdosing just gives you the hyperactive mood and body effect, without impacting your rationality.

@Cope alt?

 

[Beniceandkind]

LRP Anthelios Age correct SPF50

I never used it myself personnally so i can't give an opinion individually. But ideally you should always aim for a mineral spf, and that contains a good bunch of PA+++++. The actinica is a no brainer and really the cheapest possible if you use it as indicated. Switch, if you don't have any allergia to it - patch test -, i would recommend going for it. I consulted the best skin doctor and he has the exact same opinion on spfs.