A Short Philosophical Writing of mine

[imontheloose]

I think that even if we discover things in physics like quantum events that appear random it could still be the case that we simply dont understand what determines them yet


Maybe our current physics isnt advanced enough or perhaps the determining causes exist in a dimension that is beyond our reach

Perhaps, but from what we can theoretically see, there is a form of determined randomness. It’s just not guaranteed in the sense that I can bet my life on it not being the 0.0000000000000000000001% it deviates from the prediction.

 

[imontheloose]

There are deterministic interpretations of quantum mechanics (Everett’s interpretation, Pilot wave theory) etc

We really don’t know what the hell is going on in quantum mechanics

We may never know

It’s easily the most mysterious branch in physics

Even the fundamental concept of QM, superposition isn’t well understood

Is the particle a literal wave before the collapse? Is it literally in two places at once?

We really don’t know

It’s exceedingly mysterious. I mean, have you saw the books on it in any library? It is ludicrous how they discover this stuff.

 

[User28823]

then tell me how arises your free will in that situation if its not because of a cause or randomness

my own mind, my own conscious - even if shaped by previous experiences, is still the author

 

[Latinolooksmaxxer]

free will means just that my bro, brain impulses not strongly influenced by someone else's threats of violence

free will isnt random will but i agree thats kind of a woobly concept, it mostly boils down to a legal / law / judicial construct to frame people for crimes or civil liability

 

[wishIwasSalludon]

It’s exceedingly mysterious. I mean, have you saw the books on it in any library? It is ludicrous how they discover this stuff.

QM is just so insanely crazy

And it’s interesting how the further you go in physics the more abstract it becomes

In mechanics concepts like vectors can easily be used and intuitively understood to represent say a balls velocity

But in QM there are all these weird abstract quantities like spin, symmetries etc which there really isn’t an intuitive way to explain.

 

[Latinolooksmaxxer]

free will:

 

[Mainlander]

free will means just that my bro, brain impulses

free will isnt random will

yeah but for some reason people still believe that you have some form of god like consciousness that can outsmart the laws of this universe and with that you are the only thing that has a free will

giga cope

will is just cause cause cause

but good to see that you get it

 

[Klasik616]

I think that even if we discover things in physics like quantum events that appear random it could still be the case that we simply dont understand what determines them yet


Maybe our current physics isnt advanced enough or perhaps the determining causes exist in a dimension that is beyond our reach

The thing we should ask is: is the mind cappable of being 1:1 to reality. Because if human brains were the same mind as God, we should already know everything and science would be progressive but sciences are even more divided today than they were in the old age. Our language is trying to figure out reality with all their tools, by "reality" I mean anything we know as truth but truths depend on axioms that are common sense accepted by almost everyone. Determinism and free will are not things found on reality, they are "regulative ideas" given to support what we know (like cause and effect). God is the idea of a creator, we never saw God or creation it's only a logical entity made by common sense. God will never be proved by senses.

 

[Mainlander]

my own mind, my own conscious - even if shaped by previous experiences, is still the author

you are such a low iq coper its insane


my own conscious

Saying “my own mind is the author” ignores how the brain actually works

Your conscious mind is nothing more than the result of neurons firing and chemicals reacting in your brain


These processes are all caused by geneticspast experiences, environmentthings you didnt choose

Your feelings of making a decision come from complex brain activity but that activity is itself determined by prior causes

Chemicals like dopamine influence what you want and how you fee shaping your choices before youre even aware of them

 

[Mainlander]

The thing we should ask is: is the mind cappable of being 1:1 to reality. Because if human brains were the same mind as God, we should already know everything and science would be progressive but sciences are even more divided today than they were in the old age. Our language is trying to figure out reality with all their tools, by "reality" I mean anything we know as truth but truths depend on axioms that are common sense accepted by almost everyone.

thats what i mean in some form

"Maybe our current physics isnt advanced enough or perhaps the determining causes exist in a dimension that is beyond our reach"

We simply dont know

But in that case it doesnt matter

what matters it what humans see and feel

 

[imontheloose]

QM is just so insanely crazy

And it’s interesting how the further you go in physics the more abstract it becomes

In mechanics concepts like vectors can easily be used and intuitively understood to represent say a balls velocity

But in QM there are all these weird abstract quantities like spin, symmetries etc which there really isn’t an intuitive way to explain.

The stuff I’ll do as a post-grad doing my MEng will still be barely touching the surface of these modern physical problems. I know people who have MScs in theoretical physics and it’s honestly baffling. It is absolutely evident that humans did not evolve to solve these intricate matters.

 

[Klasik616]

thats what i mean in some form

"Maybe our current physics isnt advanced enough or perhaps the determining causes exist in a dimension that is beyond our reach"

We simply dont know

But in that case it doesnt matter

what matters it what humans see and feel

Do you agree with solipsism? I do.

 

[Mainlander]

Do you agree with solipsism? I am

There is no prove that it couldnt be true

 

[Klasik616]

There is no prove that it couldnt be true

I've read certain books and modern philosophers struggle with philosophical social concepts. For example "intersubjectivity". I think there's only the individual and his mind, and I learn about "others" like we learn how someone is by a first impression but that's never how the other actually feels about himself. There's an impossibility of sharing thoughts, so "the world" is limited by your understanding and will never be complete (epistemologic pessimism).

 

[User28823]

you are such a low iq coper its insane


my own conscious
View attachment 3932969

Saying “my own mind is the author” ignores how the brain actually works

Your conscious mind is nothing more than the result of neurons firing and chemicals reacting in your brain


These processes are all caused by geneticspast experiences, environmentthings you didnt choose

Your feelings of making a decision come from complex brain activity but that activity is itself determined by prior causes

Chemicals like dopamine influence what you want and how you fee shaping your choices before youre even aware of them

incredible, seems like u have solved the mystery that is the consciousness

harvard sent a taxi

 

[Mainlander]

incredible, seems like u have solved the mystery that is the consciousness

harvard sent a taxi

someone had to explain these basics to you innit

 

[User28823]

someone had to explain these basics to you innit

i mean this is breaking news...

.org member solves consciousness

have u been interviewed for nobel prize yet ?

 

[Mainlander]

i mean this is breaking news...

.org member solves consciousness

have u been interviewed for nobel prize yet ?

im pretermined to not answer this question

 

[User28823]

im pretermined to not answer this question

but u just chose not to

 

[Mainlander]

but u just chose not to

yeah and that choice was predetermined

 

[User28823]

yeah and that choice was predetermined

no it wasnt

 

[Mainlander]

no it wasnt

im the cause that you are writing this btw

not free will

i have influenced your will

 

[User28823]

im the cause that you are writing this btw

not free will

i have influenced your will

i chose to write this reply

 

[FlotPSL]

i chose to write this reply

@Mainlander unstoppable force vs immovable object

 

[Mainlander]

i chose to write this reply

You would have Never thought about that if I wouldnt have Said something to you

You Are influences and Not free

 

[User28823]

You would have Never thought about that if I wouldnt have Said something to you

You Are influences and Not free

yeah i would have

 

[Mainlander]

yeah i would have

 

[NuclearGeo20]

C

Cause doesn't exist in objects, it's all in your mind. Even science fails from time to time because we are not in control of what's outside us. Scientists already left cause and effect in the philosophy before XVIII century. Predictions depend on certain elements we are in control of, what's outside the prediction changes our view of the world. Anything that can be considered truth could be different in the future. If you think you know the future I'm sorry but it's all in your mind only the present exists.

An you explain further this is very interesting

 

[Klasik616]

C

An you explain further this is very interesting

Cause and effect is not a law of logic, it's a law of experience I would say the most important one and it doesn't rely on objects in reality but our mind. With the idea of cause and effect we make predictions, if the prediction fails it means our view or the world was wrong or incomplete, same reason I say truths are not eternal. Science makes predictions based on theories and laws of nature, when reality debunks our predictions scientists start looking for further explanations. The idea that everything is determined is out of experience and not logical either, just psychologic since there is no actual connection between singular objects.

 

[NuclearGeo20]

Cause and effect is not a law of logic, it's a law of experience I would say the most important one and it doesn't rely on objects in reality but our mind. With the idea of cause and effect we make predictions, if the prediction fails it means our view or the world was wrong or incomplete, same reason I say truths are not eternal. Science makes predictions based on theories and laws of nature, when reality debunks our predictions scientists start looking for further explanations. The idea that everything is determined is out of experience and not logical either, just psychologic since there is no actual connection between singular objects.

high iq af

 

[NuclearGeo20]

Cause and effect is not a law of logic, it's a law of experience I would say the most important one and it doesn't rely on objects in reality but our mind. With the idea of cause and effect we make predictions, if the prediction fails it means our view or the world was wrong or incomplete, same reason I say truths are not eternal. Science makes predictions based on theories and laws of nature, when reality debunks our predictions scientists start looking for further explanations. The idea that everything is determined is out of experience and not logical either, just psychologic since there is no actual connection between singular objects.

by chance did you quote David Hume?

 

[Klasik616]

by chance did you quote David Hume?

Yea in the last part. Thomas Kuhn on the first part.

 

[NuclearGeo20]

Yea in the last part. Thomas Kuhn on the first part.

Just hear me out. Isn't your argument kind of circular? I'll prove.

Premise 1: We observe the world
Premise 2: We live in the world we observe
Premise 3: Our minds view the world through cause and effect
Premise 4: I am bound by the laws of the world that I inhabit
Premise 5: Therefore I am bound by cause and effect

Hopefully this isnt a low iq response

 

[Klasik616]

Just hear me out. Isn't your argument kind of circular? I'll prove.

Premise 1: We observe the world
Premise 2: We live in the world we observe
Premise 3: Our minds view the world through cause and effect
Premise 4: I am bound by the laws of the world that I inhabit
Premise 5: Therefore I am bound by cause and effect

Hopefully this isnt a low iq response

Not circular as the conclussion is not in the first premise. You should have started with premise 3 as 1 and 2 is the axiom of any philosophical system, the presuposition of a world "outside us". But modern empirist philosophy doesn't think the "world" is outside us (rather inside) because the laws of this world are made by human language using logic, for this reason, an incorrect prediction would be always our fault and not a sign of a "changing world". Think about this: scientists presupose progress in science, the thought that every discovery is part of a big scheme of things that we will somehow discover entirely (this is the realist idea) but according to experience with such principles like cause and effect not being empirically logical premise 5 becomes cuestionable, as it doesn't follow from premise 4. I consider myself a solipsist just like Wittgenstein was. Aka truths are temporary.

 

[NuclearGeo20]

Not circular as the conclussion is not in the first premise. You should have started with premise 3 as 1 and 2 is the axiom of any philosophical system, the presuposition of a world "outside us". But modern empirist philosophy doesn't think the "world" is outside us (rather inside) because the laws of this world are made by human language using logic, for this reason, an incorrect prediction would be always our fault and not a sign of a "changing world". Think about this: scientists presupose progress in science, the thought that every discovery is part of a big scheme of things that we will somehow discover entirely (this is the realist idea) but according to experience with such principles like cause and effect premise 5 becomes cuestionable, as it doesn't follow from premise 4. I consider myself a solipsist just like Wittgenstein was. Aka truths are temporary.

this topic is so confusing lol

I'll probably make a thread on this later, if I ever understand it

 

[NuclearGeo20]

except if u wanted to make the rock example true, you'd be able to replace the rock with a human

but you cant

if you replace the rock with a human, it suddenly has the free will to stop descending

What determines if the human wants to stop descending?

 

[User28823]

What determines if the human wants to stop descending?

their free will to stop

 

[NuclearGeo20]

their free will to stop

Where did the thought to stop come from?

 

[User28823]

Where did the thought to stop come from?

their brain dumbass nigga where do u think

 

[NuclearGeo20]

their brain dumbass nigga where do u think

Exactly, the brain

The brain is controlled by electrical signals and chemicals, and thoughts that predetermined those thoughts. Because thoughts build upon each other.

You cant control your electrical signals, chemicals, nor the first thought or experience.

How did you come up with the thought to stop. You didnt

 

[NuclearGeo20]

their brain dumbass nigga where do u think

Unless we cant prove cause and effect*

 

[User28823]

Exactly, the brain

The brain is controlled by electrical signals and chemicals, and thoughts that predetermined those thoughts. Because thoughts build upon each other.

You cant control your electrical signals, chemicals, nor the first thought or experience.

How did you come up with the thought to stop. You didnt

that's like saying a pianist doesnt make music because the piano has strings and hammers

this whole thread falls to absolute disarray in one argument: if everything is predetermined and purely instinctual, then why can i act against instinct?

 

[WAGMI2 Gandy Heaven]

This could serve as the beginning of my philosophical book if I ever decide to write it. Its not a fixed start that Im completely committed to just a possibility

it would be about

Determinism/free will
Lookism / Blackpill
Rest im not sure yet


In truth, the only time you are, you belong to forces not your own
An unfree soul , yet named free

It shaped your face before you knew
It filled your mind without consent
It planted fear and desire deep inside
decided if you are in hell or heaven
And still, the word “free” is spoken

If you believe these words, or if you reject them
are both are proof of one truth:
you are not free.
Your choice to accept or deny
was never truly yours.

All this leads to one inevitable question:
Do we truly have free will?

Anyone who seriously examines the nature of free will will quickly arrive at a surprising conclusion:
it is not freedom that guides us, but a chain of causes that shape and determine who we are.
This realization is known as Determinism, and I embrace hard determinism in the tradition of Spinoza


THE PHILOSPHY OF DETERMINISM


Determinism is the idea that everything that happens every thought, feeling, and action is the inevitable
result of preceding causes. Nothing occurs randomly or by chance. Instead, the universe follows a chain of cause and effect,
a vast network of influences stretching back infinitely

From the moment you were born , even before countless factors shaped who you are: your genetics,
your environment, your upbringing, and the countless experiences that formed your mind and character to this day
Each of these is itself caused by previous conditions, and so on

Because of this unbroken chain, the concept of “free will” becomes questionable
If every choice you make is the outcome of prior causes beyond your control, can you truly be said to have free will


Most people, after hearing this, will not be convinced that they are truly unfree.
Many will point to compatibilism the idea that free will can exist even within a deterministic universe.
They argue: yes, genetics, parents, and upbringing shape us, but within these constraints, we still make choices.

The idea of “freedom within limits” is widely accepted, but it overlooks the powerful forces influencing not only our circumstances but also our choices
As Schopenhauer said, “A man can do what he wills, but he cannot will what he wills.”


A EXAMPLE TO UNDERSTAND DETERMINISM


A good way to understand determinism is to imagine a ball at the top of a platform.
Someone gives it a push this push is the first cause , like your Birth
The ball begins to roll down, and on its wa it hits obstacles bumps and slopes along the way.
Sometimes it speeds up, sometimes it slows down, and sometimes it changes direction.

At first, it might look like the ball moves randomly.
But if we knew everything the strength of the push, the shape of the surface, the ball’s weight, the force of gravity , the force of the wind
we could predict exactly where it will go, how fast it will roll, and where it will stop.
Nothing the ball does is truly random. Every movement comes from the initial push and the conditions it meets along the way.

In the same way, our lives seem full of choices and surprises.
But just like the ball, we are shaped by the things that pushed us
our genes, our childhood, our environment, and our experiences.
Even the way we think and feel was shaped by causes that came before.

This is what determinism means nothing happens without a reason, and everything that happens could not have happened differently
The difference between this example and human life is not one of principle,
but of complexity


HUMAN EXAMPLE OF DETERMINISM


Imagine a child standing in front of an ice cream counter with many flavors to choose from
chocolate or vanilla

The child pauses considers the options, and finally chooses chocolate
At first glance it seems like a simple free choice made by the child

But determinism says the choice wasn’t really free. Instead, it was caused by many things that happened before.
the child chose chocolate because of past experiences, habits, or influences

The child has tried chocolate ice cream before and liked it while he didnt with vanilla
Whether the child likes chocolate more than other flavors depends partly on biology
Our brains respond to certain tastes, like sweet and fatty flavors, because they release chemicals that make us feel good like dopamine, a reward signal in the brain

This past experience shapes what the child wants now
The brain remembers the taste and the feeling of enjoyment
These biological reactions create a preference for chocolate making it feel more desirable than other options

Because of these experiences and biological impulses, the child’s choice is guided by what the brain expects to be enjoyable

not by free will.






NO ONE WILL READ THIS IK but @Skullmaxxer asked me to do it

@InanimatePragmatist @iblamexyz

dnr someone probably already wrote about this subject before

 

[NuclearGeo20]

that's like saying a pianist doesnt make music because the piano has strings and hammers

this whole thread falls to absolute disarray in one argument: if everything is predetermined and purely instinctual, then why can i act against instinct?

Here's a twist

You cant act against your instinct

 

[NuclearGeo20]

that's like saying a pianist doesnt make music because the piano has strings and hammers

this whole thread falls to absolute disarray in one argument: if everything is predetermined and purely instinctual, then why can i act against instinct?

Consider this thought expiriment

If we rewinded the universe to before the moment you were born, would your life still play out the same way?

 

[User28823]

Consider this thought expiriment

If we rewinded the universe to before the moment you were born, would your life still play out the same way?

u cant rewind the universe lil nigga

and even if u could

no it wouldnt, because i have free will

 

[NuclearGeo20]

u cant rewind the universe lil nigga

and even if u could

no it wouldnt, because i have free will

Im happy that you think like this, Im jealous

 

[Mainlander]

Im happy that you think like this, Im jealous

same

but he is tooo naive and arrogant

 

[NuclearGeo20]

same

but he is tooo naive and arrogant

Its ok, hes happier than us

 

[User28823]

Im happy that you think like this, Im jealous

same

but he is tooo naive and arrogant

low level intellectual ramblings

you're not smart, in fact i've already been exactly where u are

one day u will mature