Addressing Looksmaxxing questions regarding Harmony

[SilvioMoltisantiDan]

44 eme for this face is giga accurate lmao, i just think eme isnt perfect because of the pupil landmark, cuz if someone has strabismus then their eme would be wider

meant not perfect cuz depends of esr like midface

 

[GoldenSeahorse]

do you know what pseudoscience is? these things are vaguely correlated with attractiveness and the way its used only points in an obscure direction in regards to the thing its actually studying

ur appealing to like 600 year old art study shit that niggas back then were appealing to just to draw faces that weren’t hideous to look at yk like facial thirds and fifths

regardless of the different landmarks, they are measuring the same growths, if you have a dominant ethmoid + maxilla + vomer then your nwhr, iaa, mfr, eme, and mfr will all trend toward the same direction: either less or more of that bone

so how can you say it's pseudo-science while simultaneously saying another facial ratio is more important

 

[Mansur]

he has close set eyes, thats why, eme is not perfect though

the eye distance wouldnt affect the perceiveness of the midface,

You can have close set eyes with a balanced and a disproportionate midface

In his case its his full upper lip dragging his mouth down causing the low EME angle

 

[Mansur]

44 eme for this face is giga accurate lmao, i just think eme isnt perfect because of the pupil landmark, cuz if someone has strabismus then their eme would be wider

Archie is a great example, appears to have close IPD yet somehow nails it, caused by his strabismus

 

[killcry]

so how can you say it's pseudo-science while simultaneously saying another facial ratio is more important

when did i say that, im just saying youre appealing to ancient art science, because in the same way ur saying 9/10 of attractive people have 1.0 mfr, they all also have ideal facial thirds and fifths, which are bullshit, and again only points in an obscure direction on the topic of bone development and what makes someone attractive

 

[killcry]

the eye distance wouldnt affect the perceiveness of the midface,

You can have close set eyes with a balanced and a disproportionate midface

In his case its his full upper lip dragging his mouth down causing the low EME angle

eye distance is caused by the ethmoid bone which is a bone that is literally in your midface/center of your skull

 

[SilvioMoltisantiDan]

the eye distance wouldnt affect the perceiveness of the midface,

You can have close set eyes with a balanced and a disproportionate midface

thats true, the perceiveness doesnt get affected, but the measurement yes.

In his case its his full upper lip dragging his mouth down causing the low EME angle

nah in this case is the Esr if he would have perfect esr he would have very close to perfect eme

 

[GoldenSeahorse]

when did i say that, im just saying youre appealing to ancient art science, because in the same way ur saying 9/10 of attractive people have 1.0 mfr, they all also have ideal facial thirds and fifths, which are bullshit, and again only points in an obscure direction on the topic of bone development and what makes someone attractive

I said ideal range, not exactly 1.0.

 

[killcry]

I said ideal range, not exactly 1.0.

why r u missing the point? is it on purpose?

 

[GoldenSeahorse]

why r u missing the point? is it on purpose?

the midface ratio isn't "ancient art science"

 

[killcry]

the midface ratio isn't "ancient art science"

why?

 

[Mansur]

thats true, the perceiveness doesnt get affected, but the measurement yes.

nah in this case is the EsrView attachment 5648795if he would have perfect esr he would have very close to perfect eme

His eye spacing looks normal, maybe a little lower IPD due to the broader skull

A small adjustment in lip height causes drastic changes

 

[GoldenSeahorse]

why?

it's one of the most studied facial ratios for attractiveness; there have been numerous studies showing that a midface ratio closer to the population average is perceived to be the most attractive

 

[SilvioMoltisantiDan]

His eye spacing looks normal, maybe a little lower IPD due to the broader skull

View attachment 5648812

A small adjustment in lip height causes drastic changes

i see, well, to be fair, we should use both cuz why not, both are not perfect, A wide esr, a long third proportion, thickness lips fucks all this

 

[killcry]

it's one of the most studied facial ratios for attractiveness; there have been numerous studies showing that a midface ratio closer to the population average is perceived to be the most attractive

so are facial thirds and facial fifths, and thats also correlated with attractiveness, but those were first introduced in the 1400s and 1500s as a guide for art students, so how is it anything more than pseudoscience? which i already defined for you

 

[Mansur]

i see, well, to be fair, we should use both cuz why not, both are not perfect, A wide esr, a long third proportion, thickness lips fucks all this

We def should, Its a problem for the sheet not beeing able to determine something looking proportional despite smth beeing a big issue

Such as an actual 42% lower third caused by acromegaly or simply a shorter forehead

Zayn Malik and GigaChad would have the same deduction

We wont even be able to come close to the actual facial rating of someone using ratios

Could be off by entire points

 

[GoldenSeahorse]

so are facial thirds and facial fifths, and thats also correlated with attractiveness, but those were first introduced in the 1400s and 1500s, so how is it anything more than pseudoscience? which i already defined for you

i never mentioned facial thirds/fifths, and identical thirds/fifths aren't even ideal anyways

 

[killcry]

i never mentioned facial thirds/fifths, and identical thirds/fifths aren't even ideal anyways

according to who? many studies show that a 1:1 midface ratio and equal thirds and fifths are optimal for attraction, are you going against the same studies you stood by now?

 

[GoldenSeahorse]

We def should, Its a problem for the sheet not beeing able to determine something looking proportional despite smth beeing a big issue

Such as an actual 42% lower third caused by acromegaly or simply a shorter forehead

Zayn Malik and GigaChad would have the same deduction

We wont even be able to come close to the actual facial rating of someone using ratios

Could be off by entire points

harmony formulas are usually pretty accurate, put in any attractive person and they'd score above average, and ugly people will score below average

 

[SilvioMoltisantiDan]

We def should, Its a problem for the sheet not beeing able to determine something looking proportional despite smth beeing a big issue

Such as an actual 42% lower third caused by acromegaly or simply a shorter forehead

Zayn Malik and GigaChad would have the same deduction

We wont even be able to come close to the actual facial rating of someone using ratios

Could be off by entire points

true

 

[GoldenSeahorse]

according to who? many studies show that a 1:1 midface ratio and equal thirds and fifths are optimal for attraction, are you going against the same studies you stood by now?

nice strawman argument, I never mentioned equal thirds/fifths

the midface ratio is an averageness ratio (meaning most men will have ideal midface ratios) while equal thirds are not, most men have longer lower thirds (which is ideal for attractiveness)

if you use your brain for a second faces with higher averageness are generally perceived to be more attractive; however, you'd ideally want to be closer to an average composite of attractive faces

if you look at any composite of average faces, or average attractive faces, the midface ratio is almost always 1:1 (or close to it)

 

[Mansur]

harmony formulas are usually pretty accurate, put in any attractive person and they'd score above average, and ugly people will score below average

Its mainly due to the other factors as angularity, misc and dimo

Thats why a lot of people say Del Rio has low facial harmony despite it beeing 90%+

And Zayn Malik having a harmonious face, while beeing below 50%

There are also normies with high harmony percentages

 

[killcry]

nice strawman argument, I never mentioned equal thirds/fifths

you just now did, and you made an assertion about it, and i made a counterargument, and then you called it a straw man, according to you then every counterargument is a straw man

the midface ratio is an averageness ratio (meaning most men will have ideal midface ratios) while equal thirds are not, most men have longer lower thirds (which is ideal for attractiveness)

even with your logic this still makes these ratios redundant and flawed, as men on average have longer middle thirds than women, including a longer nwhr and midface ratio, and a narrower iaa and eme

which, if you used your brain for a second, all of these superficial ratios measure one thing, which is midface height, so how can all of them be important

and (male) averageness is just balanced (male) bone growth, which you know nothing about, so why would you make a comment on it

 

[GoldenSeahorse]

Its mainly due to the other factors as angularity, misc and dimo

Thats why a lot of people say Del Rio has low facial harmony despite it beeing 90%+

And Zayn Malik having a harmonious face, while beeing below 50%

There are also normies with high harmony percentages

That's just an issue with harmony formulas. Zayn Malik has "low harmony" because of how formulas punish ESR.

Despite having a low ESR (41.4%), Zayn Malik's eye spacing doesn't appear disharmonious. His low ESR is mainly due to a wide midface, not narrow IPD.

I think that the eye separation is pretty overrated and doesn't accurately measure eye spacing harmony. It's moreso a measurement of the harmony between eye spacing and midface width, but it doesn't directly contribute towards the appearance of wide or close set eyes.

 

[ZygoRR]

- If the submental cervical angle ideal is 91-110 degrees should you be deducted for it beeing less than 91 degrees?

No, the tighter the submental region is the better, just count is as the ideal



- should the medial canthal angle be applied for the sheet?

No, as close to noone is actually using it, the ideals are off as well as majority of the people incl. Chads arent nailing the ideal



- how to measure ones gonial angle, mandibular plane if the gonion area is rounded ( applies to everyone ) ?

You draw the lines from each part, the ramus and mandible and make them meet each other, regardless of them not touching the gonion. As thats the actual angle Its forming
Using the gonion as the reference point wouldnt represent the true angle and the lines would also exceed the bone

View attachment 5648262View attachment 5648247View attachment 5648248



- if my subnasale is located very forward which would make my profile more convex than it appears to be, whats the approach?

You locate the part thats close to the deepest point of your philtrum, depends for each individual

View attachment 5648256View attachment 5648257View attachment 5648260



- What point of my hairline is considered the start of my Upper Third?

The point where your sparse hair stops and the dense hair starts



- If the lens distortion stops at roughly 6ft why does my IPD for example start decreasing as I step away further?

Because the face occupies fewer pixels, which would also make measurement errors proportionally larger



- If on my resting face my chin appears to exceed the nasion but on the frankfort plane Its further back, which one is the more reliable way to measure

Your resting face, as it heavily depends on your ear & vector placement. The human eye also doesnt perceive profiles by the frankfort plane



- What to do if I cant pinpoint my actual landmarks like the Subnasale or the exact Cheekbone height?

Either draw them on with some sort of pen or put your fingers against them ( the cheekbones )
Opening your mouth to find the exact points of the cheekbones will help you out



- If I have an overbite but Its in a good position when my face is resting, which one should I use for measuring?

Your resting face ( good teeth alignment ) as thats what people perceive



- If my glabella/ chin doesnt have the most forward point but is vertically tall, where should I pinpoint the landmarks

Take the middle of those areas

how bad its 50.9% ESR? why? is it a major flaw?

 

[Mansur]

how bad its 50.9% ESR? why? is it a major flaw?

51% is quite high, a T6 Flaw to be exact but smth tells me you havent measured it standing 6ft away from the Back camera

 

[ZygoRR]

51% is quite high, a T6 Flaw to be exact but smth tells me you havent measured it standing 6ft away from the Back camera

No, not even close, i only took a photo of me with my back camera

 

[Mansur]

No, not even close, i only took a photo of me with my back camera

Yeah makes sense, step back 6ft away from the back camera and lmk the results. Its prob like closer to 48.5 if I had to guess

 

[ZygoRR]

Yeah makes sense, step back 6ft away from the back camera and lmk the results. Its prob like closer to 48.5 if I had to guess

so, after measuring it again it was 46.2%
am i cooked or?

 

[Mansur]

so, after measuring it again it was 46.2%
am i cooked or?

You know it yourself

Interesting though how it could go as far as 5% of a change. Was about 2.5-3 in mine