Anti-Religion thread pt2

[Eskorbutin]

It's not really hard to read Aristotle and Aquinas

 

[fk732]

@theRetard bro i cant keep talking to this dumbass hes so fucking lowiq

« Logic absolute doesn’t exist!! » then proceeded to use them to « disprove God »

 

[Deleted member 231621]

Man where did you get God is illogical? I tough Logic doesn’t exist ? You cant use logic too debunk God because you need God to have logic in the first place @theRetard cant they understand that wtf

ask him what makes god illogical

 

[accelerationist]

@theRetard bro i cant keep talking to this dumbass hes so fucking lowiq

Then make an argument or continue replying with the same exact ones and say nothing of value christcuck

 

[Eskorbutin]

Completely different argument from your first one. This one doesnt mean anything; as you know nothing beyond the incomprehensible

No it's not. It's the same. It does mean that we should not focus on the immediate of the question but rather the dialectical process.

 

[accelerationist]

« Logic absolute doesn’t exist!! » then proceeded to use them to « disprove God »

When did i say that? All i did was say that your moralfagged God isnt real and that he isnt the one behind all of it. Stop putting words into my mouth

 

[accelerationist]

No it's not. It's the same. It does mean that we should not focus on the immediate of the question but rather the dialectical process.

You might be misunderstanding what the process actually is then.

 

[Deleted member 231621]

@theRetard bro i cant keep talking to this dumbass hes so fucking lowiq

“God is self sufficient” illogical nothing can come out of itself you require belief in the things you cant logically understand to believe in God go back to tiktok little faggot

if nothing can come out of itself then the root cause of everything simply does not exist, and in such a case the chain of causes is endless. But this is impossible, because we would not have reached the present

 

[Eskorbutin]

You might be misunderstanding what the process actually is then.

I don't think you are gonna get any answer with your questions or "process". I'm quite confident on "my" "process".

 

[accelerationist]

if nothing can come out of itself then the root cause of everything simply does not exist, and in such a case the chain of causes is endless. But this is impossible, because we would not have reached the present

just as “impossible” as an illogical being that comes out of itself… but that won’t be my argument

Why would we have not reached the present? The present may aswell be just part of the start of it all. Doesn’t mean anything and as if it shouldnt be

You don’t know anything, to provide an illogical understanding (something that comes out of its own self) is just dumbing yourself down to try and grasp the idea of reality and how things are to come

 

[accelerationist]

I don't think you are gonna get any answer with your questions or "process". I'm quite confident on "my" "process".

Answers are never to come lest i lie to myself

 

[Deleted member 231621]

just as “impossible” as an illogical being that comes out of itself… but that won’t be my argument

Why would we have not reached the present? The present may aswell be just part of the start of it all. Doesn’t mean anything and as if it shouldnt be

You don’t know anything, to provide an illogical understanding (something that comes out of its own self) is just dumbing yourself down to try and grasp the idea of reality and how things are to come

can you explain why is that illogical? from what you got that axioma about nothing can be caused by it's self?

>Why would we have not reached the present? The present may aswell be just part of the start of it all. Doesn’t mean anything and as if it shouldnt be

the start of all it shoudln't exist according to you because the chain of causes is literally infinite

 

[fk732]

When did i say that? All i did was say that your moralfagged God isnt real and that he isnt the one behind all of it. Stop putting words into my mouth

Omg u fucking dumbass you didn’t say that huh

« God is illogical »

 

[Eskorbutin]

Answers are never to come lest i lie to myself

Then ur philosophical method is pretty bad. An answer is not necessarily definitive truth

 

[fk732]

just as “impossible” as an illogical being that comes out of itself… but that won’t be my argument

Why would we have not reached the present? The present may aswell be just part of the start of it all. Doesn’t mean anything and as if it shouldnt be

You don’t know anything, to provide an illogical understanding (something that comes out of its own self) is just dumbing yourself down to try and grasp the idea of reality and how things are to come

Theres no past or future its an endless instant moment my stand point is that there was a first instant

 

[fk732]

Omg u fucking dumbass you didn’t say that huh View attachment 4305542
« God is illogical »

Prove The concept of God is illogical or stfu

 

[maxximus]

My first thread was a fail, i will admit it. I simplified and ignored some concepts way too much, i was trying to summarize it altogether without having to get into every single argument for God since- they all are just examples of the same argument.

I’ll be bringing up a specific argument from @theRetard first. Basically he believes that non-existence cannot exist and therefore it means that God exists.

This would mean that everything quite literally exists, and becomes illogical in of itself to have contradicting philosophies all be ‘true’ and exist within the concept of reality. For all of these philosophies to co-exist it must mean that there is one objective reality that is able to hold ground for all of these different perspectives of reality. If not- then this is a completely illogical unreal reality that is based on nothing and cannot be truly understood by anyone. Because its something that should not exist- and yet it exists


The Contingency

An argument from @fk732

1. Logic, reason, and moral absolutes exist.
2. These are immaterial, universal, invariant, and necessary realities.
3. Such realities cannot arise from matter, motion, or chance.
4. Therefore, their existence requires a transcendent, rational source.
5. This source must be personal, rational, and self-existent. God.
6. The denial of God presupposes God, because using logic requires the very framework only He grounds.
7. Therefore, without God, logic, reason, and truth are impossible.

As i’ve said in an elder thread the contingency is literally just a basic fundamental for believing in God, all understands that it requires faith in the idea that an illogical being exists for you to be able to follow something which you know to not be logical

The idea that we MUST have an illogical incomprehensible (non-contingent ‘being’)
is just an assumption and a cop-out from the search for the understanding of our reality. I seriously don’t get how this is thought to be the- “strongest argument for God” when you literally need to believe in a non-contingent being to believe in a christian God in the first place

“Using logic requires the framework that God grounds” again useless thing to mention as your God is literally illogical and needs pre-assumption to exist


all we know are concepts, we know nothing grounded. The ground is nothing except a concept, and so are all these meaningful words which are being spoken… Your concept of a being is nothing more than a concept, so would be your Gods. There’s no realness to anything, as we know none of this to be or to not be


If you are still arguing God’s existence then you are a
tiktokcel // @NinjaRG9

i'd rather believe and be safe than not believe and get shat on later if it turns out to be false

 

[shessonice]

There are countless arguments for god, no user on this forum is going to give a new or profound insight, only a parroted and slightly flawed form of the original argument. Just to name a few:

1. Cosmological Argument
2. Fine-Tuning
3. Argument from Mathematical or Physical Order
4. Argument from Consciousness
5. Ontological Argument
6. Argument from Information or the Laws of Nature
7. Argument from Contingency​

This is not necessarily an argument as I would not produce anything more insightful than the above. But to me, its not a question of whether or not there is a god, it's whether or not there's a god that care about human affairs (deism).

The issue with most of these debates, is that for those that argue for god. They often jump to the idea of Theism. But Deism vs Theism is an entirely different debate in of itself.

 

[accelerationist]

the start of all it shoudln't exist according to you because the chain of causes is literally infinite

I dont believe that but im arguing within that idea. Yes, the start is not to exist, neither can the future. None to exist, anything wrong with this exactly? Seems illogical?

can you explain why is that illogical? from what you got that axioma about nothing can be caused by it's self?

If something can cause itself then the big bang happened. We’re trying to think more deeply here, think of anything on earth that created itself out of nothing and or was to exist forever infinitely (such as God)

None are logical concepts, you can’t come to understand any of this in objective manner.

How can something exist since forever infinitely and be self sufficient.

Unlikeable and lacks evidence for this to be real

 

[accelerationist]

Omg u fucking dumbass you didn’t say that huh View attachment 4305542
« God is illogical »

very stupid, just because i believe your God to not exist doesn’t mean i don’t believe in logical absolutes.

 

[Deleted member 231621]

I dont believe that but im arguing within that idea. Yes, the start is not to exist, neither can the future. None to exist, anything wrong with this exactly? Seems illogical?

YOUR POSITION IS INFINITE REGRESS, you must defend it cuz you said that start doesn't exist

If something can cause itself then the big bang happened. We’re trying to think more deeply here, think of anything on earth that created itself out of nothing and or was to exist forever infinitely (such as God)

None are logical concepts, you can’t come to understand any of this in objective manner.

How can something exist since forever infinitely and be self sufficient.

Unlikeable and lacks evidence for this to be real

"i don't understand it therefore it's illogical"

 

[accelerationist]

"i don't understand it therefore it's illogical"

Its illogical to me until it makes sense. Are you retarded yuno?

YOUR POSITION IS INFINITE REGRESS, you must defend it cuz you said that start doesn't exist

I did defend it but again its pretty illogical or hard to comprehend there being infinity

 

[Peter White]

I think many religious people, especially Christians use their God as a kind of safety net whenever they start to lose control. Instead of taking responsibility for their own actions, they hand their problems over to something else. You hear things like, “Please God, help me in this situation.” But why beg God? Why not reflect on how you got there in the first place and take real steps to fix it?

You have control over your life, your choices, your relationships, your situations, even your environment. Giving that control away to some higher power is like surrendering to time and hoping it sorts things out for you. Sure, time can help in small ways, but most of the time, you need awareness and action to create change.

It’s the same principle behind looksmaxing and the blackpill mindset. Everyone cares about how they present themselves, but you don’t just sit around hoping time will fix you, right? you take action. You put in the work. That’s how you move forward.

And yes, sometimes you get pulled into bad situations because of a friend, family member, or something with it's own consciousness that is genuinely out of your control. But you’re still responsible for who and what you surround yourself with. You can always change the outcome, learn from it, and adjust how things begin next time. Growth starts with awareness, and awareness starts with ownership.

 

[accelerationist]

I think many religious people, especially Christians use their God as a kind of safety net whenever they start to lose control. Instead of taking responsibility for their own actions, they hand their problems over to something else. You hear things like, “Please God, help me in this situation.” But why beg God? Why not reflect on how you got there in the first place and take real steps to fix it?

You have control over your life, your choices, your relationships, your situations, even your environment. Giving that control away to some higher power is like surrendering to time and hoping it sorts things out for you. Sure, time can help in small ways, but most of the time, you need awareness and action to create change.

It’s the same principle behind looksmaxing and the blackpill mindset. Everyone cares about how they present themselves, but you don’t just sit around hoping time will fix you, right? you take action. You put in the work. That’s how you move forward.

Retard

 

[Deleted member 231621]

Its illogical to me until it makes sense. Are you retarded yuno?

"i think it doesn't make sense so it's illogical"

I did defend it but again its pretty illogical or hard to comprehend there being infinity

i just explain you why infinite regress is literally impossible (because who wouldn't reach the present in that's case)

 

[Peter White]

Retard

elaborate

 

[accelerationist]

"i think it doesn't make sense so it's illogical"

Yes, if i can’t understand it and it doesn’t make sense to me then it is literally illogical to me until proven otherwise.

i just explain you why infinite regress is literally impossible (because who wouldn't reach the present in that's case)

The present is now, we’re past the past. In these very small instincts the present is here

Infinite regress is in everything. Its not because its the logical answer for reality- but its the proof that things dont make sense

 

[accelerationist]

"i think it doesn't make sense so it's illogical"

i just explain you why infinite regress is literally impossible (because who wouldn't reach the present in that's case)

Im starting to think youre trolling me

 

[shessonice]

I think many religious people, especially Christians use their God as a kind of safety net whenever they start to lose control. Instead of taking responsibility for their own actions, ... Giving that control away to some higher power is like surrendering to time and hoping it sorts things out for you.

If you took the time to read the scripture, the bible preaches directly against this. The only reason this ever arises is due to lack of education. If you go to backwards countries like in Africa this issue is very prevalent, instead of paving the way for infrastructure, they pray to god to fix their issues for them. This is however, against Christian teaching.

 

[Deleted member 231621]

Yes, if i can’t understand it and it doesn’t make sense to me then it is literally illogical to me until proven otherwise.

The present is now, we’re past the past. In these very small instincts the present is here

Infinite regress is in everything. Its not because its the logical answer for reality- but its the proof that things dont make sense

if things dont make sense then this statement doesn't make sense as well

 

[Peter White]

If you took the time to read the scripture, the bible preaches directly against this. The only reason this ever arises is due to lack of education. If you go to backwards countries like in Africa this issue is very prevalent, instead of paving the way for infrastructure, they pray to god to fix their issues for them. This is however, against Christian teaching.

And yet, many in America still do the same thing. They pray for their problems to disappear. Sure, they might use faith as motivation, but why put something between you and yourself? Why do you need a higher power to connect with your own will and effort?

And to be clear, this isn’t about the scriptures themselves, it’s about the people who follow them. The issue isn’t the text, it’s how people use it as a shield from responsibility instead of a guide for self-awareness and action.

 

[accelerationist]

if things dont make sense then this statement doesn't make sense as well

New argument? Yeah, this statement doesnt make sense at the root. It makes sense within these barriers of what we can comprehend (objectively understand) and outside of it i am just a fool

 

[accelerationist]

And yet, many in America still do the same thing. They pray for their problems to disappear. Sure, they might use faith as motivation, but why put something between you and yourself? Why do you need a higher power to connect with your own will and effort?

And to be clear, this isn’t about the scriptures themselves, it’s about the people who follow them. The issue isn’t the text, it’s how people use it as a shield from responsibility instead of a guide for self-awareness and action.

Everything is out of our hands. Its all genetic destiny, there’s no such thing as ascending beyond what you are, failures will always seek their own death as i seek to see them dead

 

[shessonice]

And yet, many in America still do the same thing.

That is once again, an issue related to education. I don't care what people do. Christians have murdered, raped, stolen. Does that mean the religion preaches such? No.

I have no reason to lie to you, you are unfortunately as misinformed as them though.

You are free to come to your own conclusions about god, I'm not here to convince you otherwise, because I would just end up parroting an already established argument.

See here:

There are countless arguments for god, no user on this forum is going to give a new or profound insight... (continues)

 

[fk732]

I think many religious people, especially Christians use their God as a kind of safety net whenever they start to lose control. Instead of taking responsibility for their own actions, they hand their problems over to something else. You hear things like, “Please God, help me in this situation.” But why beg God? Why not reflect on how you got there in the first place and take real steps to fix it?

You have control over your life, your choices, your relationships, your situations, even your environment. Giving that control away to some higher power is like surrendering to time and hoping it sorts things out for you. Sure, time can help in small ways, but most of the time, you need awareness and action to create change.

It’s the same principle behind looksmaxing and the blackpill mindset. Everyone cares about how they present themselves, but you don’t just sit around hoping time will fix you, right? you take action. You put in the work. That’s how you move forward.

And yes, sometimes you get pulled into bad situations because of a friend, family member, or something with it's own consciousness that is genuinely out of your control. But you’re still responsible for who and what you surround yourself with. You can always change the outcome, learn from it, and adjust how things begin next time. Growth starts with awareness, and awareness starts with ownership.

Wtf are you saying christianity state we are free to auto determinate ourselves

 

[Peter White]

Everything is out of our hands. Its all genetic destiny, there’s no such thing as ascending beyond what you are, failures will always seek their own death as i seek to see them dead

First of all, biology is not destiny.
Second, if everything is truly out of our hands, then humans wouldn’t be responsible for any of our achievements, cruelty, creativity, or progress.
You can shape yourself into whatever you choose to become, your genetics set the foundation, but your choices build the structure.

 

[Peter White]

Wtf are you saying christianity state we are free to auto determinate ourselves

And yet, many in America still do the same thing. They pray for their problems to disappear. Sure, they might use faith as motivation, but why put something between you and yourself? Why do you need a higher power to connect with your own will and effort?

And to be clear, this isn’t about the scriptures themselves, it’s about the people who follow them. The issue isn’t the text, it’s how people use it as a shield from responsibility instead of a guide for self-awareness and action.

 

[accelerationist]

if everything is truly out of our hands, then humans wouldn’t be responsible for any of our achievements, cruelty, creativity, or progress.
You can shape yourself into whatever you choose to become, your genetics set the foundation, but your choices build the structure.

Predestined. You dont get my argument, you cant shape yourself into what you truly desire to be. Im not gonna write the thousandth argument for my own beliefs regarding human nature to a tiktokcel

 

[Peter White]

Predestined. You dont get my argument, you cant shape yourself into what you truly desire to be. Im not gonna write the thousandth argument for my own beliefs regarding human nature to a tiktokcel

I don't even have tiktok, but okay I thought this is what the thread is about. A open debate for people to educate each other on new/other view points. I'm not here to argue or change your mind, I'm here to just shine light on what I've personally seen.
Christian friends of mine telling me to go to church to repent and put control to a God on my knees. Why would I do that? Why would I put my control and selfness to a divine being I don't even have a relationship with.

 

[Peter White]

That is once again, an issue related to education. I don't care what people do. Christians have murdered, raped, stolen. Does that mean the religion preaches such? No.

I have no reason to lie to you, you are unfortunately as misinformed as them though.

You are free to come to your own conclusions about god, I'm not here to convince you otherwise, because I would just end up parroting an already established argument.

See here:

Like I just said I'm not here to argue but rather debate and see view points I haven't seen before.
A question tho, why would one create a religion where the only people that can understand it are the educated ones? A belief system that fails its people if they don't have access to education?

 

[accelerationist]

I don't even have tiktok, but okay I thought this is what the thread is about. A open debate for people to educate each other on new/other view points. I'm not here to argue or change your mind, I'm here to just shine light on what I've personally seen.
Christian friends of mine telling me to go to church to repent and put control to a God on my knees. Why would I do that? Why would I put my control and selfness to a divine being I don't even have a relationship with.

I dont want friends

 

[shessonice]

A question tho, why would one create a religion where the only people that can understand it are the educated ones?

That is not the intent, its just the unfortunate consequence of a lack of education. Religions want to spread, scripture is often made as clear as day. People will just not follow it to the fullest extent. Religions are meant to be accessible, otherwise they would die.

 

[Peter White]

That is not the intent, its just the unfortunate consequence of a lack of education. Religions want to spread, scripture is often made as clear as day. People will just not follow it to the fullest extent. Religions are meant to be accessible, otherwise they would die.

If religion is meant to be “clear as day,” yet millions of followers routinely misunderstand it, then the failure can’t just be blamed on education, it’s in the design of the message or the way it’s maintained.
If a divine truth is truly accessible, it shouldn’t depend on interpretation or literacy to be lived correctly. Yet most religions hinge on texts that require translation and context.

Anyways bro, thank you for actually taking your time to make sensible responses, unlike OP who just says "I don't want friends".

 

[NinjaRG9]

I dont want friends

 

[shessonice]

If religion is meant to be “clear as day,” yet millions of followers routinely misunderstand it, then the failure can’t just be blamed on education, it’s in the design of the message or the way it’s maintained.
If a divine truth is truly accessible, it shouldn’t depend on interpretation or literacy to be lived correctly. Yet most religions hinge on texts that require translation and context.

Oversights happen, and people like cop outs. You see a lot less of this mindless praying in more developed societies, yes it still happens.

This is not a necessarily good analogy, but the comparison I'm making here is desire vs instruction:

I'm sure you've assembled furniture, many people have. People often skip pages, skip steps, and take shortcuts. Because, one - the instruction can seem intuitive, and two - people are lazy and inattentive. This doesn't mean the instructions that came with the furniture was poorly designed.

The same thing happens with scripture. People misapply teachings all the time, and in desperate times people resort to irrational measures. The failure is in how humans behave. People don't like the idea of responsibility, it's mentally taxing and takes effort. Also miracles in the bible are preached much more than any preaching against an over reliance of god. Of course people are going to use the former as mental justification to avoid accountability.

 

[NinjaRG9]

Oversights happen, and people like cop outs. You see a lot less of this mindless praying in more developed societies, yes it still happens.

This is not a necessarily good analogy, but the comparison I'm making here is desire vs instruction:

I'm sure you've assembled furniture, many people have. People often skip pages, skip steps, and take shortcuts. Because, one - the instruction can seem intuitive, and two - people are lazy and inattentive. This doesn't mean the instructions that came with the furniture was poorly designed.

The same thing happens with scripture. People misapply teachings all the time, and in desperate times people resort to irrational measures. The failure is in how humans behave. People don't like the idea of responsibility, it's mentally taxing and takes effort. Also miracles in the bible are preached much more than any preaching against an over reliance of god. Of course people are going to use the former as mental justification to avoid accountability.

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