Are relationships transactional?

[Jason Voorhees]

Usually my reply would be yes life's a series of exchanges, and so are bonds. You invest time, affection, and compromise, expecting reciprocity in intimacy,emotional support or shared growth.


But the thing seems problematic to me is that many guys approach dating like they're pitching a product. They lead with "value props" like good job, salary, good looks and expect "return on investment" sex, commitment, intimacy but get bitter when they get rejected even with those value props.Is this healthy realism or does it kill genuine connection i can't tell. And what about men's inherent value do guys have worth just as people or are men by default reduced to meat shops with no value besides looks/money/status?

 

[Jason Voorhees]

@imontheloose

 

[imontheloose]

@imontheloose

every relationship is transactional. why would a human, just another animal, give something up for nothing? even empathy is a cynical deed, often done to please urself not the person.

 

[topology]

Is this healthy realism or does it kill genuine connection i can't tell.

It's not healthy realism, it will lead to connections dying.

And what about men's inherent value do guys have worth just as people or are men by default reduced to meat shops with no value besides looks/money/status?

Well, there's many ways I could give an answer to this. Obviously, everyone has value as a human, but you already knew that. Can you further clarify what you meant? Are you talking about value to women? Generally?

 

[Jason Voorhees]

every relationship is transactional. why would a human, just another animal, give something up for nothing? even empathy is a cynical deed, often done to please urself not the person.

Not all transactions are cynical
score keeping tho. There's a big huge difference between long term mutual benefit and I give X, you owe me Y right now. The former allows seasons of imbalance like one partner supports the other through a crisis with no immediate payback .The latter breeds resentment when the ledger balances don't add up instantly.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

It's not healthy realism, it will lead to connections dying.


Well, there's many ways I could give an answer to this. Obviously, everyone has value as a human, but you already knew that. Can you further clarify what you meant? Are you talking about value to women? Generally?

What I mean by "inherent value" is. Do men have intrinsic qualities that make them desirable and worthy of love/ attraction beyond just the checklist most guys get reduced to like looks, money/resource status ?

 

[topology]

What I mean by "inherent value" is. Do men have intrinsic qualities that make them desirable and worthy of love/ attraction beyond just the checklist most guys get reduced to like looks, money/resource status ?

Yes, but it's usually a lot less than those that they market themselves with.

 

[Jgns]

they're all obv transactional at a base level though ig love is what tapers that element? idk dont really understand that feeling/stuff so Im just guessing

 

[imontheloose]

Not all transactions are cynical
score keeping tho. There's a big huge difference between long term mutual benefit and I give X, you owe me Y right now. The former allows seasons of imbalance like one partner supports the other through a crisis with no immediate payback .The latter breeds resentment when the ledger balances don't add up instantly.

if ur transaction didnt involve the self then u wouldnt expect anything back. thats y ppl help animals far less, despite them getting selfish benefit of happiness of sorts. ppl like to get their fair share, its how humans progressed. if u didnt get something in return then ur plate was empty.

 

[illusion]

From my experience it’s that men are generally in a constant competition their entire life to use as many possible halos they can to even out the places they are lacking in, it is unfortunate but it is biological. Look at what birds do to attract mates, men are the same in nearly every species.

However relationships nowadays have been sodomized to the point where some women believe they must do nothing at all, and objectively deserve everything.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

Yes, but it's usually a lot less than those that they market themselves with.

The redpill take is men's value is largely earned/created because women hypergamy select "up" for better genes/ resources/protection. Inherent traits get sidelined unless they boost those metrics.

On the flip I've seen plenty of times of women accepting and getting with men without those traits aswell. Like how certain women pick guys completely based on how she feels for him,

 

[caerulean]

Relationships are, at their core, transactional, though we've collectively decided that acknowledging this is somehow beneath us. Every relationship involves an exchange: affection for affection, support for support, time for time. The discomfort people feel at this framing usually stems from conflating 'transactional' with 'cynical', when in fact the two are quite distinct. A loving marriage is still a transaction; it simply happens to be one in which both parties are genuinely delighted by what they're giving as much as what they're receiving.

 

[topology]

On the flip I've seen plenty of times of women accepting and getting with men without those traits aswell. Like how certain women pick guys completely based on how she feels for him,

Well, this could be due to things like the proximity effect. I've been attracted to a girl who looked like she had down syndrome before for no actual reason other than being stuck with her all day during classes.

The ed-pill take is men's value is largely earned/created because women hypergamy select "up" for better genes/ resources/protection. Inherent traits get sidelined unless they boost those metrics.

Yes, our preferences largely come from what benefits our offspring subconsciously. It's weird though as nothing is universal and some cultures see subhumans as good looking. I've never looked into that aspect so I really don't know why.. Maybe the social conditioning factor? That being fed as truth and them accepting it as "truth is beauty" (the quote isn't meant to be applied directly, I'm aware it's not a 1:1 comparison here.)

 

[Jason Voorhees]

if ur transaction didnt involve the self then u wouldnt expect anything back. thats y ppl help animals far less, despite them getting selfish benefit of happiness of sorts. ppl like to get their fair share, its how humans progressed. if u didnt get something in return then ur plate was empty.

Self interest underlies a lot but i believe humans uniquely evolved the capacity for genuine others oriented care too otherwise we'd never have complex societies or lasting love just give and take deals.. What's your line on where empathy crosses from self-pleasure to something more

 

[imontheloose]

Self interest underlies a lot but i believe humans uniquely evolved the capacity for genuine others oriented care too otherwise we'd never have complex societies or lasting love just give and take deals.. What's your line on where empathy crosses from self-pleasure to something more

x to doubt. genuine empathy would be harmful anyway, itd be too easy to take advantage of others. i dont think empathy is ever genuine, its always a derivative of self interest whether it be to make urself feel happy or for public image. no one would be empathetic if it made them feel like shit. its simple conditioning. the feeling acts as the reinforcement.

 

[Jason Voorhees]

@Swarthy Knight

 

[Centurion_Hunter]

Usually my reply would be yes life's a series of exchanges, and so are bonds. You invest time, affection, and compromise, expecting reciprocity in intimacy,emotional support or shared growth.


But the thing seems problematic to me is that many guys approach dating like they're pitching a product. They lead with "value props" like good job, salary, good looks and expect "return on investment" sex, commitment, intimacy but get bitter when they get rejected even with those value props.Is this healthy realism or does it kill genuine connection i can't tell. And what about men's inherent value do guys have worth just as people or are men by default reduced to meat shops with no value besides looks/money/status?

Yup even for Chads they are the ones offering looks to foids

 

[dhusc]

Usually my reply would be yes life's a series of exchanges, and so are bonds. You invest time, affection, and compromise, expecting reciprocity in intimacy,emotional support or shared growth.


But the thing seems problematic to me is that many guys approach dating like they're pitching a product. They lead with "value props" like good job, salary, good looks and expect "return on investment" sex, commitment, intimacy but get bitter when they get rejected even with those value props.Is this healthy realism or does it kill genuine connection i can't tell. And what about men's inherent value do guys have worth just as people or are men by default reduced to meat shops with no value besides looks/money/status?

yes your clearly giving and taking, it could be cash it could be love it could be sensual etc, the value of something given by said gender even tho of same quality is not equal

think of it as branding, while a bag from LV could be the exact same as a bag from let’s say MK, the branding of LV rises the value of said product 10 folds