Are soy products overly criticised?

[Cayde1428F]

So i’ve done a bit of research on soy products and i realised that inflammation from soy usually happens when you’re allergic to it, you eat soy as part of a highly processed diet or your overall fat intake is extremely unbalanced(10:20-1 omega 6-omega 3 fatty acids, healthy range should be minimum 4-1). So this unbalance can happen because u eat a lot of seed oils like soybean oil etc., or u have too little omega 3 intake.

A myth is that soy mimics estrogen and lowers testosterone but soy products are actually phytoestrogens that contain isaflavones that weakly mimic estrogen. They are very weak compared to estrogen and studies show that they do not reduce testosterone when taken in normal amounts and do not feminize men. In fact they can actually improve skin health and heart health.

I think what people call inflammation(puffy face, water retention, acne, sluggish recovery) is rarely from soy alone but because of ultra processed foods containing soy, omega imbalances or gut irritation.

I believe that soy only hurts if it replaces nutrient dense foods like fish, eggs and/or paired with ultra processed foods. If balanced with omega-3, kept simple and clean, i think its a good plant protein with some healthy fats that can support collagen and muscle. Currently i take about 475ml of nutri soy no sugar soya milk five times a week and around 50g of tofu per day. Do you all think this amount of soy is ok or if my opinions on soy are correct?

 

[Deleted member 166413]

DNR soy products are under criticized in mainstream media which is why it’s such a problem

 

[81xa]

 

[Cayde1428F]

DNR soy products are under criticized in mainstream media which is why it’s such a problem

Sorry i’m a grey doesn’t dnr stand for do not reproduce

 

[Deleted member 166413]

Sorry i’m a grey doesn’t dnr stand for do not reproduce

it means different things depending on context, in this case it’s ‘did not read’ sometimes means do not reply

 

[Cayde1428F]

View attachment 4948239

Sorry whatever niche reference that was i did NOT get it would appreciate it explained

 

[Cayde1428F]

it means different things depending on context, in this case it’s ‘did not read’ sometimes means do not reply

Thanks senior

 

[81xa]

Sorry whatever niche reference that was i did NOT get it would appreciate it explained

Soylent is a soy protein drink

He drank so much soylent and as a result his testosterone became so low and his estrogen became so high that he couldn't open the bottle himself

 

[Cayde1428F]

Soylent is a soy protein drink

He drank so much soylent and as a result his testosterone became so low and his estrogen became so high that he couldn't open the bottle himself

Oh aight its a joke right im kinda autistic Currently i take about 475ml of nutri soy no sugar soya milk five times a week and around 50g of tofu per day. Do you all think this amount of soy is ok or if my opinions on soy are correct?
I think i’m screwed if i continue with this

 

[81xa]

Oh aight its a joke right im kinda autistic

Yeah so like how can you defend soy when it feminises you and turns you into a pathetic beta male that cant accomplish anything and gets bitched?

 

[Cayde1428F]

Yeah so like how can you defend soy when it feminises you and turns you into a pathetic beta male that cant accomplish anything and gets bitched?

I’m not defending it i’m just asking for advice and maybe pointing out the more overlooked parts of it. Do u have concrete evidence on why soy feminises males? No answer i’ll take it that you don’t(just asking for learning not trying to provoke or aggravate anyone)

 

[seer☦︎]

View attachment 4948239

Soylent was advertised as a healthy meal replacement, which op wasn't advocating for, more as an additional add on.

 

[81xa]

I’m not defending it i’m just asking for advice and maybe pointing out the more overlooked parts of it. Do u have concrete evidence on why soy feminises males? No answer i’ll take it that you don’t(just asking for learning not trying to provoke or aggravate anyone)

its extremely well documented that soy contains phytoestrogens, also soy isoflavones can preferentially bind to and activate oestrogen receptors they essentially exert estrogenic activity by interacting with oestrogen receptors

 

[Cayde1428F]

its extremely well documented that soy contains phytoestrogens, also soy isoflavones can preferentially bind to and activate oestrogen receptors they essentially exert estrogenic activity by interacting with oestrogen

Soy isoflavones usually bind to the beta estrogen receptors that are more balancing and anti inflammatory which counters the alpha estrogen receptors which causes the estrogen effects u see in women. It prefers the beta receptors much more and even when it does bind its about around 100x weaker than traditional estrogen and even when it DOES bind it partially activates. So in normal male hormone levels it can actually reduce overall stimulation at the alpha receptors because it competes with natural estrogen. In low estrogen environments it increases estrogen but very slightly

 

[81xa]

Soy isoflavones usually bind to the beta estrogen receptors that are more balancing and anti inflammatory which counters the alpha estrogen receptors which causes the estrogen effects u see in women. It prefers the beta receptors much more and even when it does bind its about around 100x weaker than traditional estrogen and even when it DOES bind it partially activates. So in normal male hormone levels it can actually reduce overall stimulation at the alpha receptors because it competes with natural estrogen. In low estrogen environments it increases estrogen but very slightly

beta receptor preference is overstated genistein shows preference sure but daidzein barely does, soy gives you both so the whole beta preference argument falls apart at the first compound

100x weaker means nothing if youre consuming enough volume, dose compensates for potency

partial activation is not the same as blocking, a partial agonist adds signal it doesnt remove it, calling partial activation a net reduction in estrogen stimulation is flat out wrong mechanistically

you just admitted soy increases estrogenic activity in low estrogen environments, most males have relatively low estrogen compared to females, so by your own logic soy is estrogenic in the exact population youre defending

competitive antagonism at alpha receptors requires serum isoflavone concentrations high enough to actually displace endogenous estradiol, theres no evidence normal dietary intake achieves that in humans

 

[Cayde1428F]

beta receptor preference is overstated genistein shows preference sure but daidzein barely does, soy gives you both so the whole beta preference argument falls apart at the first compound

100x weaker means nothing if youre consuming enough volume, dose compensates for potency

partial activation is not the same as blocking, a partial agonist adds signal it doesnt remove it, calling partial activation a net reduction in estrogen stimulation is flat out wrong mechanistically

you just admitted soy increases estrogenic activity in low estrogen environments, most males have relatively low estrogen compared to females, so by your own logic soy is estrogenic in the exact population youre defending

competitive antagonism at alpha receptors requires serum isoflavone concentrations high enough to actually displace endogenous estradiol, theres no evidence normal dietary intake achieves that in humans

Hi sorry haven't been online in a while some stuff popped up.

You quoted that "you just admitted soy increases estrogenic activity in low estrogen environments, most males have relatively low estrogen compared to females, so by your own logic soy is estrogenic in the exact population youre defending". I don't think I stated it clearly therefore the misunderstanding. Just to clarify myself I meant low estrogen environments in males.

Other than that I admit that your current knowledge is much more profound than mine, but I won't do any more research on soy products because its like majoring in the minors. I've pretty much cut out soy from my diet, but I haven't seen any noticeable harms or benefits.

It genuinely feels like I'm discussing with a chatbot, its so fucking amazing how many levels there are to this I'll work harder.

Thanks for your time mister.

 

[Yalbadoth]

Where is the evidence that soy causes feminizing effects in men! But fr soy just tastes bad and is worse than any other conventional food, elites mainly want you to eat not because it will make you a woman, but because its cheap sludge and will make you a good goy.

 

[AtrophicPyra]

So i’ve done a bit of research on soy products and i realised that inflammation from soy usually happens when you’re allergic to it, you eat soy as part of a highly processed diet or your overall fat intake is extremely unbalanced(10:20-1 omega 6-omega 3 fatty acids, healthy range should be minimum 4-1). So this unbalance can happen because u eat a lot of seed oils like soybean oil etc., or u have too little omega 3 intake.

A myth is that soy mimics estrogen and lowers testosterone but soy products are actually phytoestrogens that contain isaflavones that weakly mimic estrogen. They are very weak compared to estrogen and studies show that they do not reduce testosterone when taken in normal amounts and do not feminize men. In fact they can actually improve skin health and heart health.

I think what people call inflammation(puffy face, water retention, acne, sluggish recovery) is rarely from soy alone but because of ultra processed foods containing soy, omega imbalances or gut irritation.

I believe that soy only hurts if it replaces nutrient dense foods like fish, eggs and/or paired with ultra processed foods. If balanced with omega-3, kept simple and clean, i think its a good plant protein with some healthy fats that can support collagen and muscle. Currently i take about 475ml of nutri soy no sugar soya milk five times a week and around 50g of tofu per day. Do you all think this amount of soy is ok or if my opinions on soy are correct?

Bro I just put a good couple tbsp of soy sauce on my soy lo mein noodles

I promise u it doesn’t do shit it’s amazing preworkout bec of all the sodium the pumps r amazing

 

[Cayde1428F]

Where is the evidence that soy causes feminizing effects in men! But fr soy just tastes bad and is worse than any other conventional food, elites mainly want you to eat not because it will make you a woman, but because its cheap sludge and will make you a good goy.

u right ill just cut soy out of my diet further

 

[Cayde1428F]

Bro I just put a good couple tbsp of soy sauce on my soy lo mein noodles

I promise u it doesn’t do shit it’s amazing preworkout bec of all the sodium the pumps r amazing

actually? ill deadass just eat sea salt then

 

[81xa]

Other than that I admit that your current knowledge is much more profound than mine, but I won't do any more research on soy products because its like majoring in the minors. I've pretty much cut out soy from my diet, but I haven't seen any noticeable harms or benefits.

Yeah of course, soy is just a small net negative (obviously depending on your level of consumption) and the bulk of your diet, such as how many micronutrients you are intaking in it's most bioavailable form (ideally raw/rare animal products) have a far more profound effect on your health. It's like majoring in the minors as you say

 

[Cayde1428F]

Yeah of course, soy is just a small net negative (obviously depending on your level of consumption) and the bulk of your diet, such as how many micronutrients you are intaking in it's most bioavailable form (ideally raw/rare animal products) have a far more profound effect on your health. It's like majoring in the minors as you say

Yeah thanks. I've identified the most important micronutrients for what I want to achieve, planning to do some bloodwork soon to tailor myself a custom diet which can benefit me the most, not just follow tiktok advice ykyk. If possible, could you make a post on your diet so I can jus take a quick look. Thanks

 

[81xa]

Yeah thanks. I've identified the most important micronutrients for what I want to achieve, planning to do some bloodwork soon to tailor myself a custom diet which can benefit me the most, not just follow tiktok advice ykyk. If possible, could you make a post on your diet so I can jus take a quick look. Thanks

My only diet related guide is one based on the 'primal diet' which is basically animal foods in raw form. (https://looksmax.org/threads/the-primal-diet-is-raw-meat-actually-worth-it.2108140/)

But I've done my research the best diet you can eat is the 'animal based diet' it is essentially comprised of 65% meat, 25% fruit and 10% dairy. With this you will be in peak health.

I don't know if you have heard about the 'carnivore diet' but it's not ideal since you need carbs/sugar for optimal thyroid function, lower cortisol, lower SHBG (essentially keeping your hormones in top condition) so being in a ketogenic state isn't ideal.

The best source for learning about this diet is a youtuber called 'Face IQ' which is where I got most of my knowledge on diet

@buccalfatremoval @Gargantuan @catboy09

 

[Cayde1428F]

My only diet related guide is one based on the 'primal diet' which is basically animal foods in raw form. (https://looksmax.org/threads/the-primal-diet-is-raw-meat-actually-worth-it.2108140/)

But I've done my research the best diet you can eat is the 'animal based diet' it is essentially comprised of 65% meat, 25% fruit and 10% dairy. With this you will be in peak health.

I don't know if you have heard about the 'carnivore diet' but it's not ideal since you need carbs/sugar for optimal thyroid function, lower cortisol, lower SHBG (essentially keeping your hormones in top condition) so being in a ketogenic state isn't ideal.

The best source for learning about this diet is a youtuber called 'Face IQ' which is where I got most of my knowledge on diet

@buccalfatremoval @Gargantuan @catboy09

Yea I personally don't support the carnivore diet. I honestly think most of the people who have that diet are just hopping on the bandwagon without doing any proper research beforehand.

Without carbs and fruits training performance decreases, its harder to cover larger ranges of micronutrients, not good for gut health, basically leads to what you mentioned.

Honestly, thanks a lot man you're way more helpful than 10 average people on this site. Really appreciate all the help. If possible, do you want to start a conversation? Hard to find good people on this site who know what they talking about

 

[buccalfatremoval]

My only diet related guide is one based on the 'primal diet' which is basically animal foods in raw form. (https://looksmax.org/threads/the-primal-diet-is-raw-meat-actually-worth-it.2108140/)

But I've done my research the best diet you can eat is the 'animal based diet' it is essentially comprised of 65% meat, 25% fruit and 10% dairy. With this you will be in peak health.

I don't know if you have heard about the 'carnivore diet' but it's not ideal since you need carbs/sugar for optimal thyroid function, lower cortisol, lower SHBG (essentially keeping your hormones in top condition) so being in a ketogenic state isn't ideal.

The best source for learning about this diet is a youtuber called 'Face IQ' which is where I got most of my knowledge on diet

@buccalfatremoval @Gargantuan @catboy09

I’m carbmaxxed