Are there different types of deep bites?

[Lonenely sigma]

I want to apologise to anyone who thinks I have OCD bc I ask about deep bite so much, but since deep bite ruins my face (among other things) to a great lenght, I want to know as much as possible on the subject.


What I've noticed is that there are people that have starting points similar to these:

What I've also noticed is that cases similar to these are mostly relevant to the patients from the west.


Meanwhile, there is this classic Slavic type deep bite:

The latter seems to have no solution for, while the first one does.


Am I onto something or am I just tripping?



Would this Slavic guy benefit from CW rotation?

 

[Lonenely sigma]

@mvp2v1 you seem to know quite a bit about deep bites, enlighten me pls

 

[sickdawgie]

cant deep bite be fixed with braces?

 

[Lonenely sigma]

cant deep bite be fixed with braces?

Idk what you mean by "fixed"


You can erupt your molars and whatever, so that when you bite down you lower jaw doesn't get shorter, but aesthetically speaking not much will change.


I doubt its even fixable through surgery in some cases tbf. I can't see how you can push your lower jaw downwards by a lot while at the same time keeping your maxilla not much longer

 

[Lonenely sigma]

Bump

 

[mvp2v1]

so first of all I would need to see the starting occlusion of the 2 first guys. However based on the pictures and based on the pic of the second guys occlusion the first 2 guys do not have deep bites.

A deep bite would have the upper incisors covering the lower incisors. There does seem to be different kinds of deep bites. Many of them are combinations of craniofacial dystrophies. For example, you can have vertical growth of the maxilla causing overbite, and deep bite at the same time (my case). A case like this would combine all the worst aspects of vertical growth with the bad aspects of deep bite (messed up harmony due to fucked up lower third).

As far as my understanding (which is constantly evolving), there are 2 main kinds of deep bite, the first and most common deep bite is when the curve of spee is messed up for both the upper and lower palate. In this the front of the palate falls down and back, often you have extrusion of the lower incisors as well as lack of eruption of the lower molars. The second kind of deep bite has a lot to do with a maxilla which is overly CW rotated especially with relation to the mandible (overly ccw roatated mandible). Interestingly deep bites appear to be the opposite of Anterior open bites. I made a schizo thread about this u can check on my profile.

This is a good example of a deep bite. Note the long midface, the small lower third.

Would this Slavic guy benefit from CW rotation?

hell no lmao.

Unfortunately there were no before pictures of his occlusion so i cant say if this is a deep bite case or not. This case above might be what that guy would benifit from surgericaly. His issue though might be that his anterior maxilla has fallen down and back, so to fix his face you might bring the front of his maxilla up dn forward. And of course his mandibles growth was stunted, his occlusion probably contribute to the small lower third.

 

[slavicpsycho]

How do niggas get deep bites
Just dont bite

 

[overtier1011]

They had sfs. Too low gonial angle which looks abnormal

 

[Lonenely sigma]

so first of all I would need to see the starting occlusion of the 2 first guys. However based on the pictures and based on the pic of the second guys occlusion the first 2 guys do not have deep bites. View attachment 2799208 A deep bite would have the upper incisors covering the lower incisors. There does seem to be different kinds of deep bites. Many of them are combinations of craniofacial dystrophies. For example, you can have vertical growth of the maxilla causing overbite, and deep bite at the same time (my case). A case like this would combine all the worst aspects of vertical growth with the bad aspects of deep bite (messed up harmony due to fucked up lower third).

As far as my understanding (which is constantly evolving), there are 2 main kinds of deep bite, the first and most common deep bite is when the curve of spee is messed up for both the upper and lower palate. In this the front of the palate falls down and back, often you have extrusion of the lower incisors as well as lack of eruption of the lower molars. The second kind of deep bite has a lot to do with a maxilla which is overly CW rotated especially with relation to the mandible (overly ccw roatated mandible). Interestingly deep bites appear to be the opposite of Anterior open bites. I made a schizo thread about this u can check on my profile.

View attachment 2799225This is a good example of a deep bite. Note the long midface, the small lower third.



hell no lmao. View attachment 2799233View attachment 2799234View attachment 2799235Unfortunately there were no before pictures of his occlusion so i cant say if this is a deep bite case or not. This case above might be what that guy would benifit from surgericaly. His issue though might be that his anterior maxilla has fallen down and back, so to fix his face you might bring the front of his maxilla up dn forward. And of course his mandibles growth was stunted, his occlusion probably contribute to the small lower third.

I really appreciate you taking time to write such a long answer. I've also seen your post about deep bite being opposite to an anterior open bite as I went through your deep bite posting history.



The only thing which I fail to understand is how can a CCWr be beneficial if your occlusal plane is flat. My main concern would be increasing the lower jaw height while at the same time keeping the midface and philtrum lenght the same.



I would also really like to make my lower jaw steeper. Just increasing the height isn't enough as my gonial angle looks quite stupid.


I also feel like this guy does have a deep bite judging by his mentolabial fold

So, as far as I understand, having some orthos beforehand, then bimax with downgrafting (idk which type of downgrafting and whether or not you should do rotation too) and genio seems like the best solution?

 

[Deleted member 60975]

Yes there is I have a mild deep bite not noticeable

 

[mvp2v1]

CCWr be beneficial if your occlusal plane is flat

Most peoples is not flat. They might think it is because they are rotating their head upwards compensating for their down and back maxilla.

So, as far as I understand, having some orthos beforehand, then bimax with downgrafting (idk which type of downgrafting and whether or not you should do rotation too) and genio seems like the best solution?

as far the simple surgical solutions yes I think something like what that kid got would be ideal.

 

[mvp2v1]

I find this guys case interesting, because its so clearly different midface wise then this guy:

Like I feel that the deep bite peoples midfaces are different somehow. Like their noses look longer, whereas the short face guys tend to have a relatively healthy-looking midface area.

I just cant quite put my finger on what it is. I have thought based on looking at AOB that possibly the bony part of the nose is falling down with the rest of the maxilla, which then creates that long nose look. But I'm not sure, john mew said he uses the nasion as a constant point of measurement (to measure change etc). so idk

 

[5foot4currycel]

Do you have the first or the second one?

 

[Lonenely sigma]

Do you have the first or the second one?

Something in between, more similar to the first one but I am slavic myself

 

[Lonenely sigma]

View attachment 2800880I find this guys case interesting, because its so clearly different midface wise then this guy: View attachment 2800881

Like I feel that the deep bite peoples midfaces are different somehow. Like their noses look longer, whereas the short face guys tend to have a relatively healthy-looking midface area.

I just cant quite put my finger on what it is. I have thought based on looking at AOB that possibly the bony part of the nose is falling down with the rest of the maxilla, which then creates that long nose look. But I'm not sure, john mew said he uses the nasion as a constant point of measurement (to measure change etc). so idk

Could I perhaps dm you? My case is weird in itself, I am really lost and don't know what to do

 

[Melly]

Gojo satoru has a short face syndrome confirmed