Aristotle knows more about the soul than Muhammad

[Aristotélēs]

They ask you ˹O Prophet˺ about the spirit. Say, “Its nature is known only to my Lord, and you ˹O humanity˺ have been given but little knowledge.”

Quran 17:85

"Allah knows best" copium

Meanwhile Aristotle

On the Soul (Greek: Περὶ Ψυχῆς, Peri Psychēs; Latin: De Anima) is a major treatise written by Aristotle c. 350 BC. His discussion centres on the kinds of souls possessed by different kinds of living things, distinguished by their different operations. Thus plants have the capacity for nourishment and reproduction, the minimum that must be possessed by any kind of living organism. Lower animals have, in addition, the powers of sense-perception and self-motion (action). Humans have all these as well as intellect.

On the Soul - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How will Muslimcels cope ? They should follow Aristotle instead of Muhammad

 

[Aristotélēs]

Bump

 

[The Fool]

What about pythagorus

 

[Zagrosian.]

On the Soul (Greek: Περὶ Ψυχῆς, Peri Psychēs; Latin: De Anima) is a major treatise written by Aristotle c. 350 BC. His discussion centres on the kinds of souls possessed by different kinds of living things, distinguished by their different operations. Thus plants have the capacity for nourishment and reproduction, the minimum that must be possessed by any kind of living organism. Lower animals have, in addition, the powers of sense-perception and self-motion (action). Humans have all these as well as intellect.

On the Soul - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How do we know this true and not just some ramblings done by him

 

[Aristotélēs]

What about pythagorus

Coping fool who roped immediately after discovering the diagonal of a square can't be squared (eg underoot 2 of 1 × 1 sqaure)

 

[Aristotélēs]

How do we know this true and not just some ramblings done by him

Try refuting it. All Muslim & Christian philosophers have basically followed Aristotle to understand the soul

He is THE philosopher. All others like Thomas Aquinas or Ibn Rushd could do is write commentaries explaining his works

 

[Zagrosian.]

Try refuting it. All Muslim & Christian philosophers have basically followed Aristotle to understand the soul

He is THE philosopher. All others like Thomas Aquinas or Ibn Rushd could do is write commentaries explaining his works

There is nothing to refute, nigga just Said his opinion and now retarded dalits like you worship him

 

[whiteegyptian]

Fuck ISLAM and fuck CHRISTIANITY.

 

[Aristotélēs]

There is nothing to refute, nigga just Said his opinion and now retarded dalits like you worship him

That's the Quran blud

Aristotle offers arguments. Refute them. He never tells you to accept his claims cause muh Allah revealed to me in a random cave + "burn in hell kafir"

 

[Zagrosian.]

That's the Quran blud

Aristotle offers arguments. Refute them. He never tells you to accept his claims cause muh Allah revealed to me in a random cave + "burn in hell kafir"

What arguments

All it says is that Aristotle Said this

 

[richoxne]

All religions are dogmas, obviously a philosopher will be more rational than believers.

 

[Aristotélēs]

Fuck ISLAM and fuck CHRISTIANITY.

Facts

Philosophy >>> Organized religions

What arguments

All it says is that Aristotle Said this

You gotta read his book. Wikipedia isn't gonna do the job for you

 

[Zagrosian.]

Facts

Philosophy >>> Organized religions



You gotta read his book. Wikipedia isn't gonna do the job for you

Wikipedia showed me a summary of one the books and saw something wrong within a few seconds of reading

"Senses never lie" jfl guess hallucinations and schizophrenia dont exist

 

[Aristotélēs]

Wikipedia showed me a summary of one the books and saw something wrong within a few seconds of reading

View attachment 4344714
"Senses never lie" jfl guess hallucinations and schizophrenia dont exist

Hallucinations or Schizophrenia are the results of mental impairment, which affect the rational soul, not the senses in of themselves

All the senses tell you is "X appears as Red" , they don't tell you "X is Red", the latter is a judgment of the intellect

So our senses are never wrong

 

[iGoontoTheHolocaust]

dnr this man made shit

 

[ihatereddit]

how do I cope with not being GRΣΣK

 

[unstable]

soul is just a imagination of aristotle
he would not believe in it if he was born in modern day.

 

[neo28]

They ask you ˹O Prophet˺ about the spirit. Say, “Its nature is known only to my Lord, and you ˹O humanity˺ have been given but little knowledge.”

Quran 17:85

"Allah knows best" copium

Meanwhile Aristotle

On the Soul (Greek: Περὶ Ψυχῆς, Peri Psychēs; Latin: De Anima) is a major treatise written by Aristotle c. 350 BC. His discussion centres on the kinds of souls possessed by different kinds of living things, distinguished by their different operations. Thus plants have the capacity for nourishment and reproduction, the minimum that must be possessed by any kind of living organism. Lower animals have, in addition, the powers of sense-perception and self-motion (action). Humans have all these as well as intellect.

On the Soul - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How will Muslimcels cope ? They should follow Aristotle instead of Muhammad

this is retarded lmao. aristotle was just a regular guy observing shit around him and making guesses, this has nothing to do with the verse from the quran you quoted, which is essentially saying that we cannot know the ultimate essence of the soul, because it’s a part of the unseen realm and we can’t observe it with science and shit, is that something you disagree with?

here are some more beliefs held by aristotle

• the heart thinks
• the brain cools blood
• women are mutilated males
• spontaneous generation
• heavier objects fall faster

i should follow this retard instead of a prophet of god?

what he’s talking about in the paragraph you quoted are observable biological faculties of creation, it is not metaphysical it is observable and provable/disprovable by science, do you get what i’m saying and why what you’re saying makes no sense? he was a scientist not a prophet

anyways the quran does tell you a lot of stuff about the unseen that’s the whole point of the book (one of the first verses if you read the book is “this is a guide for those who believe in the unseen” something along those lines) and it explains the metaphysical aspects of the soul far beyond what any regular philosopher ever has. not to mention everything it tells us about heaven/hell angels devils etc,

the point is it gives us all the information of the unseen that we need while maintaining that this is just a tiny fraction of the entire picture which only god knows or could even understand, how could we possibly fathom the nature of something like a divine soul

 

[Aristotélēs]

this is retarded lmao. aristotle was just a regular guy observing shit around him and making guesses, this has nothing to do with the verse from the quran you quoted, which is essentially saying that we cannot know the ultimate essence of the soul, because it’s a part of the unseen realm and we can’t observe it with science and shit, is that something you disagree with?

here are some more beliefs held by aristotle

• the heart thinks
• the brain cools blood
• women are mutilated males
• spontaneous generation
• heavier objects fall faster

I will first address the 5 points you think Aristotle "got wrong"


1. Aristotle never said the heart thinks lmao. That's just a neccesary physical condition (a working heart) for the presence of the rational soul. It's the rational soul (passive & active) which thinks & it isn't identical with the body (matter)

Ironically, the Quran does say we think with our hearts lmao

"And We have certainly created for Hell many of the jinn and mankind. They have hearts with which they do not understand, they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear" Quran 7:179

2. The original post isn't about biology but about the soul. This is irrelevant. In any case, the brain in modern biology is still the causal factor behind all the operations of the body. So it does cool the blood indirectly.

3. This is also irrelevant to the soul & once more, Islam ironically affirms this too in ahadith. Eve was created from the rib of Adam, a mutilated male

Riyad as-Salihin 273
Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:
Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: "Take my advice with regard to women: Act kindly towards women, for they were created from a rib, and the most crooked part of a rib is its uppermost. If you attempt to straighten it; you will break it, and if you leave it alone it will remain crooked; so act kindly toward women"

4. Spontaneous generation was never refuted since it's based on deductive reasoning & not induction, so I'm not surprised modern biology can't assess it in its own paradigm. Furthermore, it all depends on how you define "life". On a side note, questions related to the origin of life itself still hold promise for this theory - that living matter came from non living matter

5. Heavier objects do fall faster than lighter objects in air medium at a sufficient height. Aristotle's theory does not ignore air. Applying it to vacuum just reflects your own ignorance.

We cannot know the ultimate essence ? The Quran doesn't even give it's accidental qualities lmao, let alone its essence. Muhammad was just baffled by the question & went for the cope immediately

i should follow this retard instead of a prophet of god?

what he’s talking about in the paragraph you quoted are observable biological faculties of creation, it is not metaphysical it is observable and provable/disprovable by science, do you get what i’m saying and why what you’re saying makes no sense? he was a scientist not a prophet

Nope. All of it isn't fixed to the body. The active intellect responsible for facilitating the passive material intellect to think is separable from the biological functions of the body. The rest, animal & vegetative souls are obviously tied to the biological functions. It's the mistake of Muhammad to think the soul should not be defined by its immaterial forms (roles)

anyways the quran does tell you a lot of stuff about the unseen that’s the whole point of the book (one of the first verses if you read the book is “this is a guide for those who believe in the unseen” something along those lines) and it explains the metaphysical aspects of the soul far beyond what any regular philosopher ever has. not to mention everything it tells us about heaven/hell angels devils etc,

Cope. Aristotle tells us more about the metaphysical than the Quran & it is defended by arguments. Heaven & Hell are myths. The personal soul (passive intellect) isn't even immortal lmao.

the point is it gives us all the information of the unseen that we need while maintaining that this is just a tiny fraction of the entire picture which only god knows or could even understand, how could we possibly fathom the nature of something like a divine soul

Aristotle did understand the divine intellect or unmoved mover, better than Muhammad. It's the mind thinking itself - with all the intelligible forms.

The Quranic God on the other hand is an anthropomorphic joke. He gets angry & happy. He sits on a throne & rules. He even has hands & eyes lmao. He isn't pure actuality but a potentiality & contingent.

 

[yussimania]

@Aristotélēs i feel like you are Indian, you give me Arnold Breker pfp X accounts ran by pajeets

 

[Aristotélēs]

@Aristotélēs i feel like you are Indian, you give me Arnold Breker pfp X accounts ran by pajeets

I curse Vishnu & all Hindu Gods

Try again Muhammadan

 

[Klasik616]

Difference between a philosopher and a simple merchant

 

[neo28]

I will first address the 5 points you think Aristotle "got wrong"


1. Aristotle never said the heart thinks lmao. That's just a neccesary physical condition (a working heart) for the presence of the rational soul. It's the rational soul (passive & active) which thinks & it isn't identical with the body (matter)

Ironically, the Quran does say we think with our hearts lmao

"And We have certainly created for Hell many of the jinn and mankind. They have hearts with which they do not understand, they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear" Quran 7:179

2. The original post isn't about biology but about the soul. This is irrelevant. In any case, the brain in modern biology is still the causal factor behind all the operations of the body. So it does cool the blood indirectly.

3. This is also irrelevant to the soul & once more, Islam ironically affirms this too in ahadith. Eve was created from the rib of Adam, a mutilated male

Riyad as-Salihin 273
Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:
Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: "Take my advice with regard to women: Act kindly towards women, for they were created from a rib, and the most crooked part of a rib is its uppermost. If you attempt to straighten it; you will break it, and if you leave it alone it will remain crooked; so act kindly toward women"

4. Spontaneous generation was never refuted since it's based on deductive reasoning & not induction, so I'm not surprised modern biology can't assess it in its own paradigm. Furthermore, it all depends on how you define "life". On a side note, questions related to the origin of life itself still hold promise for this theory - that living matter came from non living matter

5. Heavier objects do fall faster than lighter objects in air medium at a sufficient height. Aristotle's theory does not ignore air. Applying it to vacuum just reflects your own ignorance.

We cannot know the ultimate essence ? The Quran doesn't even give it's accidental qualities lmao, let alone its essence. Muhammad was just baffled by the question & went for the cope immediately



Nope. All of it isn't fixed to the body. The active intellect responsible for facilitating the passive material intellect to think is separable from the biological functions of the body. The rest, animal & vegetative souls are obviously tied to the biological functions. It's the mistake of Muhammad to think the soul should not be defined by its immaterial forms (roles)



Cope. Aristotle tells us more about the metaphysical than the Quran & it is defended by arguments. Heaven & Hell are myths. The personal soul (passive intellect) isn't even immortal lmao.


Aristotle did understand the divine intellect or unmoved mover, better than Muhammad. It's the mind thinking itself - with all the intelligible forms.

The Quranic God on the other hand is an anthropomorphic joke. He gets angry & happy. He sits on a throne & rules. He even has hands & eyes lmao. He isn't pure actuality but a potentiality & contingent.

lots of your points are just simple misunderstandings of the symbology of the quran, it’s not all meant to be taken so literally. especially your last paragraph demonstrates this. the quran uses literary devices to convey a pretty clear message.

you’re conflating what aristotle is talking about with the divine soul. what he’s talking about is observable, it is the ego/sense of self. The quran talks about this (it is called the “nafs”) and affirms that this part of us is not immortal, it is our animalistic sense of self and is essentially the root of all our worldly desires. Aristotle never talks about a divine soul like the quran does (this is the ruh). This is the immortal soul, not our “passive intellect.”

Also you just brushed over all of aristotles errors and you keep appealing to him as an infallible authority. Are you saying he never made a mistake?

3. This is also irrelevant to the soul & once more, Islam ironically affirms this too in ahadith. Eve was created from the rib of Adam, a mutilated male

Riyad as-Salihin 273
Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:
Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: "Take my advice with regard to women: Act kindly towards women, for they were created from a rib, and the most crooked part of a rib is its uppermost. If you attempt to straighten it; you will break it, and if you leave it alone it will remain crooked; so act kindly toward women"

Aristotles belief was literally that women are deformed males, that menstruation is incomplete semen, that a female body is a failure in producing full humanity.

The hadith you quoted that “says the same thing” is… not saying the same thing.. at all. The hadith is a metaphor, referring to women having different temperament and emotional nature to men, not biological inferiority. Again you’re failing to comprehend basic symbolism in contrast to scientific claims. Also obviously hadith are not divine scripture and we can’t attribute these to the speech of god.

Also no this is not irrelevant even though we are talking about the soul because the authority you are appealing to was just a scientist who made plenty of mistakes.

Scientifically spontaneous generation has absolutely been refuted, we know it to be a scientific fact that all life comes from life. We know that something can not come from nothing. This is part of the logical proof of the existence of god, all creation is contingent therefore there is a necessary existence that transcends this contingency.

We cannot know the ultimate essence ? The Quran doesn't even give it's accidental qualities lmao, let alone its essence. Muhammad was just baffled by the question & went for the cope immediately

you know there’s more verses about the soul right? I already explained to you the meaning of that verse it is about humans knowing the nature of divinity like the human soul. We can’t. Nobody disagrees. This is not cope. It is the definition of metaphysics. We can only know from the unseen what is revealed to us, other than that it is just speculation.

your main claim is that aristotle describes the metaphysics of the soul better than the quran.

aristotle has never described an immortal soul with a divine origin, and the quran does. so your comparison is invalid.

 

[neo28]

I will first address the 5 points you think Aristotle "got wrong"


1. Aristotle never said the heart thinks lmao. That's just a neccesary physical condition (a working heart) for the presence of the rational soul. It's the rational soul (passive & active) which thinks & it isn't identical with the body (matter)

Ironically, the Quran does say we think with our hearts lmao

"And We have certainly created for Hell many of the jinn and mankind. They have hearts with which they do not understand, they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear" Quran 7:179

2. The original post isn't about biology but about the soul. This is irrelevant. In any case, the brain in modern biology is still the causal factor behind all the operations of the body. So it does cool the blood indirectly.

3. This is also irrelevant to the soul & once more, Islam ironically affirms this too in ahadith. Eve was created from the rib of Adam, a mutilated male

Riyad as-Salihin 273
Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:
Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: "Take my advice with regard to women: Act kindly towards women, for they were created from a rib, and the most crooked part of a rib is its uppermost. If you attempt to straighten it; you will break it, and if you leave it alone it will remain crooked; so act kindly toward women"

4. Spontaneous generation was never refuted since it's based on deductive reasoning & not induction, so I'm not surprised modern biology can't assess it in its own paradigm. Furthermore, it all depends on how you define "life". On a side note, questions related to the origin of life itself still hold promise for this theory - that living matter came from non living matter

5. Heavier objects do fall faster than lighter objects in air medium at a sufficient height. Aristotle's theory does not ignore air. Applying it to vacuum just reflects your own ignorance.

We cannot know the ultimate essence ? The Quran doesn't even give it's accidental qualities lmao, let alone its essence. Muhammad was just baffled by the question & went for the cope immediately



Nope. All of it isn't fixed to the body. The active intellect responsible for facilitating the passive material intellect to think is separable from the biological functions of the body. The rest, animal & vegetative souls are obviously tied to the biological functions. It's the mistake of Muhammad to think the soul should not be defined by its immaterial forms (roles)



Cope. Aristotle tells us more about the metaphysical than the Quran & it is defended by arguments. Heaven & Hell are myths. The personal soul (passive intellect) isn't even immortal lmao.


Aristotle did understand the divine intellect or unmoved mover, better than Muhammad. It's the mind thinking itself - with all the intelligible forms.

The Quranic God on the other hand is an anthropomorphic joke. He gets angry & happy. He sits on a throne & rules. He even has hands & eyes lmao. He isn't pure actuality but a potentiality & contingent.

you’re genuinely braindead you can not understand basic symbolism and literary devices, you are unironically comparing aristotle to religion, aristotle has never once made claims about a divine soul all he talks about is the psyche this is not metaphysical this is science, you keep using one verse from the quran to say that it doesn’t tell us anything about the soul when that verse is just telling us we can not understand the NATURE of the divine and there is a whole book explaining to us unseen truths of the world, which obviously you reject because you are a retarded atheist, your premise makes no sense, either you accept what the quran tells you about the soul or you don’t, it is beyond retarded to claim that the quran doesn’t tell us anything about the soul but then reject everything it tells us about the soul lmao, anyways i already spent way too much brain energy on this go pray to aristotle fucking retard lmao

 

[Aristotélēs]

lots of your points are just simple misunderstandings of the symbology of the quran, it’s not all meant to be taken so literally. especially your last paragraph demonstrates this. the quran uses literary devices to convey a pretty clear message.

No. Unless you accept our eyes, ears, etc see & hear metaphorically. They don't. So our heart literally does think according to the Quran. You can't pick & choose. You need consistent hermeneutics here.

you’re conflating what aristotle is talking about with the divine soul. what he’s talking about is observable, it is the ego/sense of self. The quran talks about this (it is called the “nafs”) and affirms that this part of us is not immortal, it is our animalistic sense of self and is essentially the root of all our worldly desires. Aristotle never talks about a divine soul like the quran does (this is the ruh). This is the immortal soul, not our “passive intellect.”

No. Aristotle's understanding of the soul is relevant here. It's related to what makes us alive, which the Quran attributes to the "Ruh" - soul. The soul referenced in the Quran is the human soul & Aristotle correctly identifies is with the various immaterials forms which aid the body. Muhammad could not do this. He failed.

Nafs just means the "self" - it is irrelevant to the topic here. It's just a self referential name of persons.

Ofcourse later Muslim philosophers managed to come up with nafs al nabatiya, nafs al haywaniyyah, nafs al natiqa etc, but all of this is not from the Quran or Ahadith but borrowed from Aristotle's vegetative, animal & rational soul

Muslim philosophers had to follow Aristotle instead of Muhammad to understand the soul

Also you just brushed over all of aristotles errors and you keep appealing to him as an infallible authority. Are you saying he never made a mistake?

You have an outdated or misguided philosophy of science. Science does not change through falsification but through a change of general paradigms or storytelling background assumptions. In this context, Aristotlean biology is still relevant under the right assumptions.

Aristotles belief was literally that women are deformed males, that menstruation is incomplete semen, that a female body is a failure in producing full humanity.

The hadith you quoted that “says the same thing” is… not saying the same thing.. at all. The hadith is a metaphor, referring to women having different temperament and emotional nature to men, not biological inferiority. Again you’re failing to comprehend basic symbolism in contrast to scientific claims. Also obviously hadith are not divine scripture and we can’t attribute these to the speech of god.

No. The hadith makes it clear that the reason women have certain temperament is due to the biological fact of them being made from the ribs of Adam originally.

If you allow a metaphorical reading here, then I can do the same for Aristotle.

Hadith if authentic is divine revelation in the speech of Muhammad lol...this is based on the following Quranic verse

Your fellow man is neither misguided nor astray. Nor does he speak of his own whims. It is only a revelation sent down ˹to him˺.

Quran 53: 2-4

Also no this is not irrelevant even though we are talking about the soul because the authority you are appealing to was just a scientist who made plenty of mistakes.

I'm not appealing to authority since I'm ready to defend his claims. Secondly, it's an undisputed fact that Aristotle advanced the human understanding of the soul more than Muhammad, even if I accept the fact he got certain features wrong. Muhammad admitted to ignorance here...

Scientifically spontaneous generation has absolutely been refuted, we know it be a scientific fact that all life comes from life. We know that something can not come from nothing. This is part of the logical proof of the existence of god, all creation is contingent therefore there is a necessary existence that transcends this contingency.

Once more. The spontaneous generation argument can't be refuted from induction since it is a deductive argument. Aristotlean biology is in a way incommensurable with modern biology since they operate under different paradigms.

You should read an article of Feyerabend on this. It's called "Aristotle Not A Dead dog". It shows Aristotle is as relevant as ever now & he offers an alternative paradigm of science

As for contingency & neccesity etc, all of this relies on potentiality & actuality distinction & other points of modal logic, which was invented by Aristotle. Ibn Sina who gave its popular formulation was himself inspired by Aristotle & no other. The Quran is of no help here.

you know there’s more verses about the soul right? I already explained to you the meaning of that source it is about humans knowing the nature of divinity like the human soul. We can’t. Nobody disagrees. This is not cope. It is the definition of metaphysics. We can only know from the unseen what is revealed to us, other than that it is just speculation.

your main claim which is that aristotle describes the metaphysics of the soul better than the quran.

aristotle has never described an immortal soul with a divine origin, and the quran does. so your comparison is invalid.

The active soul of Aristotle is often identified by many of his commentators with the unmoved mover or divine intellect. Aristotle even realized how it interacts with the passive material intellect in us

Go on, bring me Quranic verses or Ahadith as detailed as the arguments & descriptions found in De Anima. You can't.