🙏 ATHEISTIC ARGUMENTS DEBUNKED 🙏

magicfucktard22

magicfucktard22

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INTRODUCTION

I'll be breaking down why these supposedly "killer" atheistic arguments are fundamentally flawed.
1000068742


TABLE OF CONTENTS:

1. The Problem of Evil
2. Scientific Materialism
3. The "Who Created God?" Comeback
4. Divine Hiddenness
5. Evolution
6. The Consciousness Problem
7. Morality
10. The "God of the Gaps" Dismissal
11. Free Will and Determinism
12. The Information Problem
13. The "Religious People Are Less Intelligent" Smugness
14. Historical Jesus Denialism
15. The "Science vs. Religion" False Dichotomy
16. The Problem of Meaning
17. The Social Utility Dodge
18. The Complexity Argument
19. The "You Can't Prove It" Last Resort

1. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL

1000073668

"Muh, if God exists, why do bad things happen?"

This is probably the most emotionally manipulative and intellectually lazy argument atheists trot out.

First, this betrays an embarrassingly childish view of reality. What exactly do you expect? a universe that's basically a padded playpen? Where no one ever faces challenges or consequences? That would create a species of pathetic, underdeveloped beings with no capacity for growth or meaningful choice.

The existence of evil and suffering is PRECISELY what you'd expect in a universe designed to develop beings capable of genuine moral choice and spiritual growth. It's like complaining that a gym has weights that are "too heavy." That's the whole point! Without resistance, there's no strength development.

And let's be brutally honest: most atheists making this argument aren't really concerned about children starving in Africa. They're using others' suffering as a rhetorical weapon while living comfortable lives. If they cared that much about suffering, they'd be selling their smartphones and donating everything to charity.

2. SCIENTIFIC MATERIALISM

1000073675

"Science explains everything!"

No, it absolutely doesn't, and any scientist worth their salt would cringe at this shitty claim.

Science is a methodology for studying material phenomena. It's like saying "My metal detector explains everything!" No, it explains things that can be detected by metal detectors.

Science can't explain:
- Why there are logical laws
- Why mathematics works
- Why consciousness exists
- Why there's something rather than nothing
- Why the universe follows comprehensible laws at all
- Why the physical constants are fine-tuned for life

And, before you say
"we'll figure those out eventually" that's not science, that's FAITH.
You're basically saying "Science will provide!" like a religious mantra.

3. THE "WHO CREATED GOD?" COMEBACK

1000073673

Ladies and gentlemen, this is what happens when you don't understand basic metaphysics.

It's like asking "What's north of the North Pole?" It's a category error so basic it's almost embarrassing to address.

The whole POINT of God in classical theism is that God is the ground of being itself - the uncaused cause. Asking "Who created God?" shows you don't even understand the basic concept you're attempting to critique. It's like saying "I disproved numbers because I can't weigh them!"

4. DIVINE HIDDENNESS

1000073674

"If God exists, why doesn't he just appear on CNN?"

Have you actually thought this through? Like, really thought about it? What exactly would constitute "sufficient evidence" for you? A giant face in the sky? Then you'd just claim it was aliens or mass hallucination. A miracle? Same thing.

The evidence is actually overwhelming for those willing to see it:
- The existence of anything at all rather than nothing
- The comprehensibility of the universe
- The fine-tuning of physical constants
- The emergence of consciousness
- The universal human experience of transcendence
- The existence of objective moral truths

But here's the real thing:
if God's existence were as obvious as the sun, there would be no possibility of genuine choice or relationship. It would be like trying to develop a "relationship" with gravity. The hiddenness is NECESSARY for genuine faith and choice to exist.

5. EVOLUTION
1000073671

"Evolution explains everything about life!"

No, it explains changes in existing life forms. It doesn't explain:
- How life originated from non-life (abiogenesis)
- How consciousness emerged
- Why humans have capacities far beyond survival needs
- The origin of moral consciousness
- The fine-tuning necessary for evolution to work at all

Evolution is perfectly compatible with theism. It's actually what you'd EXPECT from a rational God; a universe that develops according to rational principles rather than constant miraculous interventions.

6. THE CONSCIOUSNESS PROBLEM

Atheists love to handwave this away: "It's just emergent properties of brain activity!"

1000073693

Really? REALLY?

Let's talk about the hard problem of consciousness. How does purely physical matter generate subjective experience? Why do you have an inner world at all? Why aren't you just a biological robot responding to stimuli?

In a materialist framework, consciousness is literally impossible to explain. You're telling me random particle interactions somehow generated the ability to contemplate their own existence? That's like saying if you shake up a jar of coins long enough, they'll become self-aware. It's absurd on its face.

7. MORALITY

1000073678

"We don't need God for morality! We can be good without God!"

This completely misses the point. The question isn't whether atheists can ACT morally, of course they can. The question is whether OBJECTIVE morality can exist without God.

In a purely materialist universe, morality is just evolved behavior patterns or social conventions. That means:
- The Holocaust wasn't really wrong, it was just something we evolved to dislike
- Love isn't really good, it's just a chemical reaction that aided survival
- Justice isn't really justice, it's just a social construct
- Human rights aren't real, they're just ideas we made up

You can't derive an "ought" from an "is." You can't get real moral truth from atoms bouncing around. Period.

8. THE "RELIGION IS JUST CULTURAL" ARGUMENT

1000073698

"If you were born in India, you'd be Hindu! Therefore all religion is relative!" (Yes, people really do use this dumbass argument.)

This is possibly the weakest argument I've ever heard.

By that logic:
- If you were born in ancient times, you'd believe the Earth was flat, therefore the Earth isn't round
- If you were born in Nazi Germany, you'd be a Nazi, therefore anti-Nazi views are just cultural
- If you were born in a pre-scientific society, you wouldn't believe in science, therefore science isn't true

The ORIGIN of a belief has nothing to do with its TRUTH VALUE. This is basic logic, people!

9. THE MULTIVERSE ESCAPE HATCH

1000073688

When confronted with the fine-tuning of our universe, atheists often retreat to: "Well, maybe there are infinite universes!"

Let's appreciate the irony here: These same people mock believers for having "faith" in an unseen God, while having faith in an infinite number of unseen universes. At least God is a SIMPLE explanation. You're multiplying entities beyond necessity to avoid the obvious conclusion.

10. THE "GOD OF THE GAPS" DISMISSAL

1000073695

"You're just using God to explain what science hasn't figured out yet!"

No, we're making inferences to the best explanation based on the evidence we have. The fact that the universe:

- Exists at all
- Is mathematically ordered
- Is comprehensible to our minds
- Produced conscious beings
- Contains objective moral truths
- Appears fine-tuned for life

ALL points to a rational, conscious, moral Mind as the ground of reality. This isn't filling gaps — it's following the evidence where it leads.

11. FREE WILL AND DETERMINISM

Here's something deliciously ironic: Most atheists who pride themselves on "following reason" can't even justify their ability to reason in the first place.

In a purely materialist universe, free will is impossible. You're just atoms following physical laws. Your thoughts aren't products of reason - they're just inevitable chemical reactions.

But then:
- Why trust any of your conclusions?
- Why believe in science?
- Why argue for anything?
- Why even believe in determinism itself?

You've created a self-defeating worldview. You're using reason to argue that reason isn't real. It's intellectual suicide.

12. THE INFORMATION PROBLEM

1000073692

DNA is literally a code - a information storage and transmission system. You know what EVERY code we've ever encountered has in common? They're all products of mind. Every. Single. One.

But suddenly when we find one in nature, we're supposed to believe it just... happened? By accident? That's not skepticism, it's willful blindness.

13. THE "RELIGIOUS PEOPLE ARE LESS INTELLIGENT" BULLSHIT

1000073690

"Studies show religious people have lower IQs!"

First, correlation isn't causation, you dumbfuck.

Second, even if true, SO WHAT? Truth isn't determined by IQ scores. Newton was deeply religious. So was Kepler. So was Planck. Were they all idiots?

This is just intellectual snobbery masquerading as argument. It's what you resort to when you can't engage with the actual philosophical arguments.

14. HISTORICAL JESUS DENIALISM

1000073691

"Jesus probably didn't exist!"


ACTUAL atheist historians:
1000069309



We have better historical evidence for Jesus than for most ancient figures. Denying his existence isn't skepticism anymore, it's conspiracy theory thinking.

The REAL question is what you make of the evidence. But please, at least engage with actual history rather than internet-level pseudo-scholarship.

15. THE "SCIENCE VS. RELIGION" FALSE DICHOTOMY

Modern science EMERGED FROM a theistic worldview!!! The belief that the universe follows rational laws discoverable by human minds makes perfect sense if we're created by a rational God. It makes NO sense if we're cosmic accidents.

Why should monkey brains that evolved for survival be able to do quantum mechanics? The fact that mathematics can describe reality is a MIRACLE that materialists take totally for granted.

16. THE PROBLEM OF MEANING

1000073699

In an atheistic universe:
- Your consciousness is an illusion
- Your sense of free will is an illusion
- Your sense of moral truth is an illusion
- Your sense of meaning is an illusion
- Your love is just chemicals
- Your hopes are just neural patterns
- Your entire subjective experience is just an evolutionary trick

And they call religious people deluded?
At least we accept reality as we actually experience it rather than explaining it all away.

Here's the ultimate irony: Atheism requires MORE faith than theism. You have to believe:
- Something came from nothing
- Order came from chaos
- Life came from non-life
- Reason came from irrationality
- Consciousness came from unconsciousness
- Morality came from amorality
- Purpose came from purposelessness

And all by ACCIDENT!

The real question isn't whether God exists. The real question is why some people work so hard to avoid the obvious conclusion. Because let's be honest - if there is no God:
- Nothing ultimately matters
- All meaning is invented
- All morality is arbitrary
- All purpose is pretend
- All hope is delusion

Is that really more rational than theism? Or is it just more comfortable for those who want to be their own gods?

17. THE SOCIAL UTILITY DODGE

1000073694

"Religion was just invented to control people!"

Oh, really?

Let's talk about what atheists have to invent to make their worldview bearable:

- Objective meaning in a meaningless universe
- Real moral values in an amoral cosmos
- Genuine purpose in purposeless existence
- True love in a world of just particles
- Human rights with no transcendent source

Who's inventing comforting myths now?

18. THE COMPLEXITY ARGUMENT

1000073676

"But God would have to be more complex than the universe, so you haven't solved anything!"

This just betrays a kindergarten-level understanding of metaphysics.
God isn't a complex physical being. God is SIMPLE. Pure actuality. Pure being itself. The source of complexity, not a complex thing.

It's like saying "The rules of mathematics must be more complex than mathematics itself!" No; simple principles can generate complexity. This is Philosophy 101.

19. The "You Can't Prove It" Last Resort

When all else fails, they retreat to:
1000073696

"Well, you can't PROVE God exists!"

First, we don't have absolute proof of ANYTHING outside of mathematics and logic. We use inference to the best explanation - and God is the best explanation for:
- Existence itself
- Mathematical order
- Conscious experience
- Moral truth
- Universal human religious experience
- Fine-tuning
- Information in DNA
- The comprehensibility of the universe
- The effectiveness of mathematics in describing reality
- The existence of reason itself

CONCLUSION

You know what's fascinating? The more we learn about the universe, the more it points to Mind at its foundation:
- Quantum mechanics shows matter isn't purely material
- Information theory shows mind precedes matter
- Fine-tuning gets more precise with every measurement
- Consciousness remains completely inexplicable in materialist terms

But here's what's really going on: Modern atheism isn't an intellectual position, but a psychological one. It's not about evidence. It's about:
- Avoiding accountability
- Escaping moral absolutes
- Maintaining autonomy
- Playing God in your own life
- Keeping comfortable illusions

The truth is, atheism is the ultimate act of self-deception. You have to:
- Deny your direct experience of consciousness
- Deny your intuitive knowledge of moral truth
- Deny your sense of meaning and purpose
- Deny your recognition of design in nature
- Deny your awareness of transcendent reality

And for what? So you can pretend you're just a clever ape on a cosmic speck with no real purpose or meaning? That's not rationality - that's running from reality.

Why do some people work so hard to deny what's directly in front of them? But hey, if someone wants to believe they're just a meaningless collection of particles that accidentally became conscious... who am I to disturb their faith?

The fascinating thing about truth is: the deeper you dig, THE STRONGER IT GETS.

GOD BLESS.
 

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No one is reading this bro
 
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just put a subway surfers clip next time.
 
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refute my argument for atheism:
  • an impersonal god (einstein/spinoza god) is exactly the same as there being no god
 
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Didn’t read

Maybe God does exist, certainly not the Abrahamic God tho
 
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INTRODUCTION

I'll be breaking down why these supposedly "killer" atheistic arguments are fundamentally flawed.
View attachment 3269608

TABLE OF CONTENTS:

1. The Problem of Evil
2. Scientific Materialism
3. The "Who Created God?" Comeback
4. Divine Hiddenness
5. Evolution
6. The Consciousness Problem
7. Morality
10. The "God of the Gaps" Dismissal
11. Free Will and Determinism
12. The Information Problem
13. The "Religious People Are Less Intelligent" Smugness
14. Historical Jesus Denialism
15. The "Science vs. Religion" False Dichotomy
16. The Problem of Meaning
17. The Social Utility Dodge
18. The Complexity Argument
19. The "You Can't Prove It" Last Resort

1. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL

View attachment 3269644
"Muh, if God exists, why do bad things happen?"

This is probably the most emotionally manipulative and intellectually lazy argument atheists trot out.

First, this betrays an embarrassingly childish view of reality. What exactly do you expect? a universe that's basically a padded playpen? Where no one ever faces challenges or consequences? That would create a species of pathetic, underdeveloped beings with no capacity for growth or meaningful choice.

The existence of evil and suffering is PRECISELY what you'd expect in a universe designed to develop beings capable of genuine moral choice and spiritual growth. It's like complaining that a gym has weights that are "too heavy." That's the whole point! Without resistance, there's no strength development.

And let's be brutally honest: most atheists making this argument aren't really concerned about children starving in Africa. They're using others' suffering as a rhetorical weapon while living comfortable lives. If they cared that much about suffering, they'd be selling their smartphones and donating everything to charity.

2. SCIENTIFIC MATERIALISM

View attachment 3269671
"Science explains everything!"

No, it absolutely doesn't, and any scientist worth their salt would cringe at this shitty claim.

Science is a methodology for studying material phenomena. It's like saying "My metal detector explains everything!" No, it explains things that can be detected by metal detectors.

Science can't explain:
- Why there are logical laws
- Why mathematics works
- Why consciousness exists
- Why there's something rather than nothing
- Why the universe follows comprehensible laws at all
- Why the physical constants are fine-tuned for life

And, before you say
"we'll figure those out eventually" that's not science, that's FAITH.
You're basically saying "Science will provide!" like a religious mantra.

3. THE "WHO CREATED GOD?" COMEBACK

View attachment 3269637
Ladies and gentlemen, this is what happens when you don't understand basic metaphysics.

It's like asking "What's north of the North Pole?" It's a category error so basic it's almost embarrassing to address.

The whole POINT of God in classical theism is that God is the ground of being itself - the uncaused cause. Asking "Who created God?" shows you don't even understand the basic concept you're attempting to critique. It's like saying "I disproved numbers because I can't weigh them!"

4. DIVINE HIDDENNESS

View attachment 3269635
"If God exists, why doesn't he just appear on CNN?"

Have you actually thought this through? Like, really thought about it? What exactly would constitute "sufficient evidence" for you? A giant face in the sky? Then you'd just claim it was aliens or mass hallucination. A miracle? Same thing.

The evidence is actually overwhelming for those willing to see it:
- The existence of anything at all rather than nothing
- The comprehensibility of the universe
- The fine-tuning of physical constants
- The emergence of consciousness
- The universal human experience of transcendence
- The existence of objective moral truths

But here's the real thing:
if God's existence were as obvious as the sun, there would be no possibility of genuine choice or relationship. It would be like trying to develop a "relationship" with gravity. The hiddenness is NECESSARY for genuine faith and choice to exist.

5. EVOLUTION
View attachment 3269643
"Evolution explains everything about life!"

No, it explains changes in existing life forms. It doesn't explain:
- How life originated from non-life (abiogenesis)
- How consciousness emerged
- Why humans have capacities far beyond survival needs
- The origin of moral consciousness
- The fine-tuning necessary for evolution to work at all

Evolution is perfectly compatible with theism. It's actually what you'd EXPECT from a rational God; a universe that develops according to rational principles rather than constant miraculous interventions.

6. THE CONSCIOUSNESS PROBLEM

Atheists love to handwave this away: "It's just emergent properties of brain activity!"

View attachment 3269645
Really? REALLY?

Let's talk about the hard problem of consciousness. How does purely physical matter generate subjective experience? Why do you have an inner world at all? Why aren't you just a biological robot responding to stimuli?

In a materialist framework, consciousness is literally impossible to explain. You're telling me random particle interactions somehow generated the ability to contemplate their own existence? That's like saying if you shake up a jar of coins long enough, they'll become self-aware. It's absurd on its face.

7. MORALITY

View attachment 3269646
"We don't need God for morality! We can be good without God!"

This completely misses the point. The question isn't whether atheists can ACT morally, of course they can. The question is whether OBJECTIVE morality can exist without God.

In a purely materialist universe, morality is just evolved behavior patterns or social conventions. That means:
- The Holocaust wasn't really wrong, it was just something we evolved to dislike
- Love isn't really good, it's just a chemical reaction that aided survival
- Justice isn't really justice, it's just a social construct
- Human rights aren't real, they're just ideas we made up

You can't derive an "ought" from an "is." You can't get real moral truth from atoms bouncing around. Period.

8. THE "RELIGION IS JUST CULTURAL" ARGUMENT

View attachment 3269692
"If you were born in India, you'd be Hindu! Therefore all religion is relative!" (Yes, people really do use this dumbass argument.)

This is possibly the weakest argument I've ever heard.

By that logic:
- If you were born in ancient times, you'd believe the Earth was flat, therefore the Earth isn't round
- If you were born in Nazi Germany, you'd be a Nazi, therefore anti-Nazi views are just cultural
- If you were born in a pre-scientific society, you wouldn't believe in science, therefore science isn't true

The ORIGIN of a belief has nothing to do with its TRUTH VALUE. This is basic logic, people!

9. THE MULTIVERSE ESCAPE HATCH

View attachment 3269648
When confronted with the fine-tuning of our universe, atheists often retreat to: "Well, maybe there are infinite universes!"

Let's appreciate the irony here: These same people mock believers for having "faith" in an unseen God, while having faith in an infinite number of unseen universes. At least God is a SIMPLE explanation. You're multiplying entities beyond necessity to avoid the obvious conclusion.

10. THE "GOD OF THE GAPS" DISMISSAL

View attachment 3269689
"You're just using God to explain what science hasn't figured out yet!"

No, we're making inferences to the best explanation based on the evidence we have. The fact that the universe:

- Exists at all
- Is mathematically ordered
- Is comprehensible to our minds
- Produced conscious beings
- Contains objective moral truths
- Appears fine-tuned for life

ALL points to a rational, conscious, moral Mind as the ground of reality. This isn't filling gaps — it's following the evidence where it leads.

11. FREE WILL AND DETERMINISM

Here's something deliciously ironic: Most atheists who pride themselves on "following reason" can't even justify their ability to reason in the first place.

In a purely materialist universe, free will is impossible. You're just atoms following physical laws. Your thoughts aren't products of reason - they're just inevitable chemical reactions.

But then:
- Why trust any of your conclusions?
- Why believe in science?
- Why argue for anything?
- Why even believe in determinism itself?

You've created a self-defeating worldview. You're using reason to argue that reason isn't real. It's intellectual suicide.

12. THE INFORMATION PROBLEM

View attachment 3269660
DNA is literally a code - a information storage and transmission system. You know what EVERY code we've ever encountered has in common? They're all products of mind. Every. Single. One.

But suddenly when we find one in nature, we're supposed to believe it just... happened? By accident? That's not skepticism, it's willful blindness.

13. THE "RELIGIOUS PEOPLE ARE LESS INTELLIGENT" BULLSHIT

View attachment 3269661
"Studies show religious people have lower IQs!"

First, correlation isn't causation, you dumbfuck.

Second, even if true, SO WHAT? Truth isn't determined by IQ scores. Newton was deeply religious. So was Kepler. So was Planck. Were they all idiots?

This is just intellectual snobbery masquerading as argument. It's what you resort to when you can't engage with the actual philosophical arguments.

14. HISTORICAL JESUS DENIALISM

View attachment 3269662
"Jesus probably didn't exist!"


ACTUAL atheist historians: View attachment 3269664


We have better historical evidence for Jesus than for most ancient figures. Denying his existence isn't skepticism anymore, it's conspiracy theory thinking.

The REAL question is what you make of the evidence. But please, at least engage with actual history rather than internet-level pseudo-scholarship.

15. THE "SCIENCE VS. RELIGION" FALSE DICHOTOMY

Modern science EMERGED FROM a theistic worldview!!! The belief that the universe follows rational laws discoverable by human minds makes perfect sense if we're created by a rational God. It makes NO sense if we're cosmic accidents.

Why should monkey brains that evolved for survival be able to do quantum mechanics? The fact that mathematics can describe reality is a MIRACLE that materialists take totally for granted.

16. THE PROBLEM OF MEANING

View attachment 3269666
In an atheistic universe:
- Your consciousness is an illusion
- Your sense of free will is an illusion
- Your sense of moral truth is an illusion
- Your sense of meaning is an illusion
- Your love is just chemicals
- Your hopes are just neural patterns
- Your entire subjective experience is just an evolutionary trick

And they call religious people deluded?
At least we accept reality as we actually experience it rather than explaining it all away.

Here's the ultimate irony: Atheism requires MORE faith than theism. You have to believe:
- Something came from nothing
- Order came from chaos
- Life came from non-life
- Reason came from irrationality
- Consciousness came from unconsciousness
- Morality came from amorality
- Purpose came from purposelessness

And all by ACCIDENT!

The real question isn't whether God exists. The real question is why some people work so hard to avoid the obvious conclusion. Because let's be honest - if there is no God:
- Nothing ultimately matters
- All meaning is invented
- All morality is arbitrary
- All purpose is pretend
- All hope is delusion

Is that really more rational than theism? Or is it just more comfortable for those who want to be their own gods?

17. THE SOCIAL UTILITY DODGE

View attachment 3269672
"Religion was just invented to control people!"

Oh, really?

Let's talk about what atheists have to invent to make their worldview bearable:

- Objective meaning in a meaningless universe
- Real moral values in an amoral cosmos
- Genuine purpose in purposeless existence
- True love in a world of just particles
- Human rights with no transcendent source

Who's inventing comforting myths now?

18. THE COMPLEXITY ARGUMENT

View attachment 3269658
"But God would have to be more complex than the universe, so you haven't solved anything!"

This just betrays a kindergarten-level understanding of metaphysics.
God isn't a complex physical being. God is SIMPLE. Pure actuality. Pure being itself. The source of complexity, not a complex thing.

It's like saying "The rules of mathematics must be more complex than mathematics itself!" No; simple principles can generate complexity. This is Philosophy 101.

19. The "You Can't Prove It" Last Resort

When all else fails, they retreat to:
View attachment 3269673
"Well, you can't PROVE God exists!"

First, we don't have absolute proof of ANYTHING outside of mathematics and logic. We use inference to the best explanation - and God is the best explanation for:
- Existence itself
- Mathematical order
- Conscious experience
- Moral truth
- Universal human religious experience
- Fine-tuning
- Information in DNA
- The comprehensibility of the universe
- The effectiveness of mathematics in describing reality
- The existence of reason itself

CONCLUSION

You know what's fascinating? The more we learn about the universe, the more it points to Mind at its foundation:
- Quantum mechanics shows matter isn't purely material
- Information theory shows mind precedes matter
- Fine-tuning gets more precise with every measurement
- Consciousness remains completely inexplicable in materialist terms

But here's what's really going on: Modern atheism isn't an intellectual position, but a psychological one. It's not about evidence. It's about:
- Avoiding accountability
- Escaping moral absolutes
- Maintaining autonomy
- Playing God in your own life
- Keeping comfortable illusions

The truth is, atheism is the ultimate act of self-deception. You have to:
- Deny your direct experience of consciousness
- Deny your intuitive knowledge of moral truth
- Deny your sense of meaning and purpose
- Deny your recognition of design in nature
- Deny your awareness of transcendent reality

And for what? So you can pretend you're just a clever ape on a cosmic speck with no real purpose or meaning? That's not rationality - that's running from reality.

Why do some people work so hard to deny what's directly in front of them? But hey, if someone wants to believe they're just a meaningless collection of particles that accidentally became conscious... who am I to disturb their faith?

The fascinating thing about truth is: the deeper you dig, THE STRONGER IT GETS.

GOD BLESS.
Unironically High IQ thread. Repped.
 
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no such thing as atheist .
they all are satanists
 
an impersonal god (einstein/spinoza god) is exactly the same as there being no god
I'm sorry, but this is such a painfully superficial argument.

First, off-rip, you show a fundamental misunderstanding of what Einstein and Spinoza meant by "God."

They weren't talking about some fucking vague cosmic force. They were talking about the ground of rational existence itself. The source of:

- Mathematical order
- Natural laws
- Logical necessity
- Being itself

But let's expose why this argument collapses:

1. Just because something is impersonal doesn't mean it's nonexistent or meaningless. The laws of mathematics are impersonal - are you saying they don't exist or don't matter? The laws of physics are impersonal - do they not fundamentally shape reality?

2. An impersonal God as the ground of being explains:

- Why the universe follows rational laws
- Why mathematics describes reality
- Why consciousness emerged
- Why the universe is comprehensible
- Why there's something rather than nothing

Your argument is like saying "An impersonal foundation under a house is exactly the same as having no foundation." It's logically absurd. The foundation shapes EVERYTHING above it, whether it's personal or not.

The real problem here isn't the argument but the childish notion that something has to DIRECTLY interact with you personally to be real or meaningful. That's not philosophy. That's emotional neediness hiding as 'reasoning'.
 
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Reactions: Onewithmoss
based, read and repped
 
amazing thread.
Just curious, what's your opinion on Islam?
 
INTRODUCTION

I'll be breaking down why these supposedly "killer" atheistic arguments are fundamentally flawed.
View attachment 3269608

TABLE OF CONTENTS:

1. The Problem of Evil
2. Scientific Materialism
3. The "Who Created God?" Comeback
4. Divine Hiddenness
5. Evolution
6. The Consciousness Problem
7. Morality
10. The "God of the Gaps" Dismissal
11. Free Will and Determinism
12. The Information Problem
13. The "Religious People Are Less Intelligent" Smugness
14. Historical Jesus Denialism
15. The "Science vs. Religion" False Dichotomy
16. The Problem of Meaning
17. The Social Utility Dodge
18. The Complexity Argument
19. The "You Can't Prove It" Last Resort

1. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL

View attachment 3269644
"Muh, if God exists, why do bad things happen?"

This is probably the most emotionally manipulative and intellectually lazy argument atheists trot out.

First, this betrays an embarrassingly childish view of reality. What exactly do you expect? a universe that's basically a padded playpen? Where no one ever faces challenges or consequences? That would create a species of pathetic, underdeveloped beings with no capacity for growth or meaningful choice.

The existence of evil and suffering is PRECISELY what you'd expect in a universe designed to develop beings capable of genuine moral choice and spiritual growth. It's like complaining that a gym has weights that are "too heavy." That's the whole point! Without resistance, there's no strength development.

And let's be brutally honest: most atheists making this argument aren't really concerned about children starving in Africa. They're using others' suffering as a rhetorical weapon while living comfortable lives. If they cared that much about suffering, they'd be selling their smartphones and donating everything to charity.

2. SCIENTIFIC MATERIALISM

View attachment 3269671
"Science explains everything!"

No, it absolutely doesn't, and any scientist worth their salt would cringe at this shitty claim.

Science is a methodology for studying material phenomena. It's like saying "My metal detector explains everything!" No, it explains things that can be detected by metal detectors.

Science can't explain:
- Why there are logical laws
- Why mathematics works
- Why consciousness exists
- Why there's something rather than nothing
- Why the universe follows comprehensible laws at all
- Why the physical constants are fine-tuned for life

And, before you say
"we'll figure those out eventually" that's not science, that's FAITH.
You're basically saying "Science will provide!" like a religious mantra.

3. THE "WHO CREATED GOD?" COMEBACK

View attachment 3269637
Ladies and gentlemen, this is what happens when you don't understand basic metaphysics.

It's like asking "What's north of the North Pole?" It's a category error so basic it's almost embarrassing to address.

The whole POINT of God in classical theism is that God is the ground of being itself - the uncaused cause. Asking "Who created God?" shows you don't even understand the basic concept you're attempting to critique. It's like saying "I disproved numbers because I can't weigh them!"

4. DIVINE HIDDENNESS

View attachment 3269635
"If God exists, why doesn't he just appear on CNN?"

Have you actually thought this through? Like, really thought about it? What exactly would constitute "sufficient evidence" for you? A giant face in the sky? Then you'd just claim it was aliens or mass hallucination. A miracle? Same thing.

The evidence is actually overwhelming for those willing to see it:
- The existence of anything at all rather than nothing
- The comprehensibility of the universe
- The fine-tuning of physical constants
- The emergence of consciousness
- The universal human experience of transcendence
- The existence of objective moral truths

But here's the real thing:
if God's existence were as obvious as the sun, there would be no possibility of genuine choice or relationship. It would be like trying to develop a "relationship" with gravity. The hiddenness is NECESSARY for genuine faith and choice to exist.

5. EVOLUTION
View attachment 3269643
"Evolution explains everything about life!"

No, it explains changes in existing life forms. It doesn't explain:
- How life originated from non-life (abiogenesis)
- How consciousness emerged
- Why humans have capacities far beyond survival needs
- The origin of moral consciousness
- The fine-tuning necessary for evolution to work at all

Evolution is perfectly compatible with theism. It's actually what you'd EXPECT from a rational God; a universe that develops according to rational principles rather than constant miraculous interventions.

6. THE CONSCIOUSNESS PROBLEM

Atheists love to handwave this away: "It's just emergent properties of brain activity!"

View attachment 3269645
Really? REALLY?

Let's talk about the hard problem of consciousness. How does purely physical matter generate subjective experience? Why do you have an inner world at all? Why aren't you just a biological robot responding to stimuli?

In a materialist framework, consciousness is literally impossible to explain. You're telling me random particle interactions somehow generated the ability to contemplate their own existence? That's like saying if you shake up a jar of coins long enough, they'll become self-aware. It's absurd on its face.

7. MORALITY

View attachment 3269646
"We don't need God for morality! We can be good without God!"

This completely misses the point. The question isn't whether atheists can ACT morally, of course they can. The question is whether OBJECTIVE morality can exist without God.

In a purely materialist universe, morality is just evolved behavior patterns or social conventions. That means:
- The Holocaust wasn't really wrong, it was just something we evolved to dislike
- Love isn't really good, it's just a chemical reaction that aided survival
- Justice isn't really justice, it's just a social construct
- Human rights aren't real, they're just ideas we made up

You can't derive an "ought" from an "is." You can't get real moral truth from atoms bouncing around. Period.

8. THE "RELIGION IS JUST CULTURAL" ARGUMENT

View attachment 3269692
"If you were born in India, you'd be Hindu! Therefore all religion is relative!" (Yes, people really do use this dumbass argument.)

This is possibly the weakest argument I've ever heard.

By that logic:
- If you were born in ancient times, you'd believe the Earth was flat, therefore the Earth isn't round
- If you were born in Nazi Germany, you'd be a Nazi, therefore anti-Nazi views are just cultural
- If you were born in a pre-scientific society, you wouldn't believe in science, therefore science isn't true

The ORIGIN of a belief has nothing to do with its TRUTH VALUE. This is basic logic, people!

9. THE MULTIVERSE ESCAPE HATCH

View attachment 3269648
When confronted with the fine-tuning of our universe, atheists often retreat to: "Well, maybe there are infinite universes!"

Let's appreciate the irony here: These same people mock believers for having "faith" in an unseen God, while having faith in an infinite number of unseen universes. At least God is a SIMPLE explanation. You're multiplying entities beyond necessity to avoid the obvious conclusion.

10. THE "GOD OF THE GAPS" DISMISSAL

View attachment 3269689
"You're just using God to explain what science hasn't figured out yet!"

No, we're making inferences to the best explanation based on the evidence we have. The fact that the universe:

- Exists at all
- Is mathematically ordered
- Is comprehensible to our minds
- Produced conscious beings
- Contains objective moral truths
- Appears fine-tuned for life

ALL points to a rational, conscious, moral Mind as the ground of reality. This isn't filling gaps — it's following the evidence where it leads.

11. FREE WILL AND DETERMINISM

Here's something deliciously ironic: Most atheists who pride themselves on "following reason" can't even justify their ability to reason in the first place.

In a purely materialist universe, free will is impossible. You're just atoms following physical laws. Your thoughts aren't products of reason - they're just inevitable chemical reactions.

But then:
- Why trust any of your conclusions?
- Why believe in science?
- Why argue for anything?
- Why even believe in determinism itself?

You've created a self-defeating worldview. You're using reason to argue that reason isn't real. It's intellectual suicide.

12. THE INFORMATION PROBLEM

View attachment 3269660
DNA is literally a code - a information storage and transmission system. You know what EVERY code we've ever encountered has in common? They're all products of mind. Every. Single. One.

But suddenly when we find one in nature, we're supposed to believe it just... happened? By accident? That's not skepticism, it's willful blindness.

13. THE "RELIGIOUS PEOPLE ARE LESS INTELLIGENT" BULLSHIT

View attachment 3269661
"Studies show religious people have lower IQs!"

First, correlation isn't causation, you dumbfuck.

Second, even if true, SO WHAT? Truth isn't determined by IQ scores. Newton was deeply religious. So was Kepler. So was Planck. Were they all idiots?

This is just intellectual snobbery masquerading as argument. It's what you resort to when you can't engage with the actual philosophical arguments.

14. HISTORICAL JESUS DENIALISM

View attachment 3269662
"Jesus probably didn't exist!"


ACTUAL atheist historians: View attachment 3269664


We have better historical evidence for Jesus than for most ancient figures. Denying his existence isn't skepticism anymore, it's conspiracy theory thinking.

The REAL question is what you make of the evidence. But please, at least engage with actual history rather than internet-level pseudo-scholarship.

15. THE "SCIENCE VS. RELIGION" FALSE DICHOTOMY

Modern science EMERGED FROM a theistic worldview!!! The belief that the universe follows rational laws discoverable by human minds makes perfect sense if we're created by a rational God. It makes NO sense if we're cosmic accidents.

Why should monkey brains that evolved for survival be able to do quantum mechanics? The fact that mathematics can describe reality is a MIRACLE that materialists take totally for granted.

16. THE PROBLEM OF MEANING

View attachment 3269666
In an atheistic universe:
- Your consciousness is an illusion
- Your sense of free will is an illusion
- Your sense of moral truth is an illusion
- Your sense of meaning is an illusion
- Your love is just chemicals
- Your hopes are just neural patterns
- Your entire subjective experience is just an evolutionary trick

And they call religious people deluded?
At least we accept reality as we actually experience it rather than explaining it all away.

Here's the ultimate irony: Atheism requires MORE faith than theism. You have to believe:
- Something came from nothing
- Order came from chaos
- Life came from non-life
- Reason came from irrationality
- Consciousness came from unconsciousness
- Morality came from amorality
- Purpose came from purposelessness

And all by ACCIDENT!

The real question isn't whether God exists. The real question is why some people work so hard to avoid the obvious conclusion. Because let's be honest - if there is no God:
- Nothing ultimately matters
- All meaning is invented
- All morality is arbitrary
- All purpose is pretend
- All hope is delusion

Is that really more rational than theism? Or is it just more comfortable for those who want to be their own gods?

17. THE SOCIAL UTILITY DODGE

View attachment 3269672
"Religion was just invented to control people!"

Oh, really?

Let's talk about what atheists have to invent to make their worldview bearable:

- Objective meaning in a meaningless universe
- Real moral values in an amoral cosmos
- Genuine purpose in purposeless existence
- True love in a world of just particles
- Human rights with no transcendent source

Who's inventing comforting myths now?

18. THE COMPLEXITY ARGUMENT

View attachment 3269658
"But God would have to be more complex than the universe, so you haven't solved anything!"

This just betrays a kindergarten-level understanding of metaphysics.
God isn't a complex physical being. God is SIMPLE. Pure actuality. Pure being itself. The source of complexity, not a complex thing.

It's like saying "The rules of mathematics must be more complex than mathematics itself!" No; simple principles can generate complexity. This is Philosophy 101.

19. The "You Can't Prove It" Last Resort

When all else fails, they retreat to:
View attachment 3269673
"Well, you can't PROVE God exists!"

First, we don't have absolute proof of ANYTHING outside of mathematics and logic. We use inference to the best explanation - and God is the best explanation for:
- Existence itself
- Mathematical order
- Conscious experience
- Moral truth
- Universal human religious experience
- Fine-tuning
- Information in DNA
- The comprehensibility of the universe
- The effectiveness of mathematics in describing reality
- The existence of reason itself

CONCLUSION

You know what's fascinating? The more we learn about the universe, the more it points to Mind at its foundation:
- Quantum mechanics shows matter isn't purely material
- Information theory shows mind precedes matter
- Fine-tuning gets more precise with every measurement
- Consciousness remains completely inexplicable in materialist terms

But here's what's really going on: Modern atheism isn't an intellectual position, but a psychological one. It's not about evidence. It's about:
- Avoiding accountability
- Escaping moral absolutes
- Maintaining autonomy
- Playing God in your own life
- Keeping comfortable illusions

The truth is, atheism is the ultimate act of self-deception. You have to:
- Deny your direct experience of consciousness
- Deny your intuitive knowledge of moral truth
- Deny your sense of meaning and purpose
- Deny your recognition of design in nature
- Deny your awareness of transcendent reality

And for what? So you can pretend you're just a clever ape on a cosmic speck with no real purpose or meaning? That's not rationality - that's running from reality.

Why do some people work so hard to deny what's directly in front of them? But hey, if someone wants to believe they're just a meaningless collection of particles that accidentally became conscious... who am I to disturb their faith?

The fascinating thing about truth is: the deeper you dig, THE STRONGER IT GETS.

GOD BLESS.
Dnr but ure right bro 🐺🔥✝️
 
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I'm sorry, but this is such a painfully superficial argument.

First, off-rip, you show a fundamental misunderstanding of what Einstein and Spinoza meant by "God."

They weren't talking about some fucking vague cosmic force. They were talking about the ground of rational existence itself. The source of:

- Mathematical order
- Natural laws
- Logical necessity
- Being itself

But let's expose why this argument collapses:

1. Just because something is impersonal doesn't mean it's nonexistent or meaningless. The laws of mathematics are impersonal - are you saying they don't exist or don't matter? The laws of physics are impersonal - do they not fundamentally shape reality?

2. An impersonal God as the ground of being explains:

- Why the universe follows rational laws
- Why mathematics describes reality
- Why consciousness emerged
- Why the universe is comprehensible
- Why there's something rather than nothing

Your argument is like saying "An impersonal foundation under a house is exactly the same as having no foundation." It's logically absurd. The foundation shapes EVERYTHING above it, whether it's personal or not.

The real problem here isn't the argument but the childish notion that something has to DIRECTLY interact with you personally to be real or meaningful. That's not philosophy. That's emotional neediness hiding as 'reasoning'.
>meaningless word salad

if you had anything useful to say you would have done it in 2 sentences max. my argument is a pretty simple lingiusitic one - the notion of 'god' in the conventional use of the term is fundamentally linked to an anthopomorphic being that gives a shit about the affairs of humans.
 
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also your arguments resmeble chat gpt = giga low sentience trait
 
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>meaningless word salad

if you had anything useful to say you would have done it in 2 sentences max. my argument is a pretty simple lingiusitic one - the notion of 'god' in the conventional use of the term is fundamentally linked to an anthopomorphic being that gives a shit about the affairs of humans.
youre cooked this nigga is megamind
 
>meaningless word salad

if you had anything useful to say you would have done it in 2 sentences max. my argument is a pretty simple lingiusitic one - the notion of 'god' in the conventional use of the term is fundamentally linked to an anthopomorphic being that gives a shit about the affairs of humans.
So arrogant to think complex metaphysical truths must conform to your arbitrary two-sentence limit. By that logic, quantum physics must be false since it can't be explained in a TikTok 😂

Your "linguistic" argument is just semantic games. It's like saying "unicorns mean horses with horns, therefore all four-legged mammals are the same as no mammals existing." You're conflating popular understanding with philosophical reality.

Again, your argument fails because:
  1. The term "God" has ALWAYS had multiple meanings in philosophical discourse, from Aristotle's Unmoved Mover to Spinoza's Nature to Aquinas's Ground of Being.
  2. Your "conventional use" argument is just an appeal to popularity. A logical fallacy so basic it's embarrassing you'd rely on it.
  3. You're essentially saying "Most people think of God one way, therefore all other conceptions are invalid." That's like saying "Most people think of atoms as tiny solid balls, therefore quantum mechanics is false"

The fact you think reducing existence itself to "giving a shit about human affairs" is somehow philosophically sophisticated rather than embarrassingly anthropocentric just shows the intellectual depth we're dealing with here.

But, please, tell me more about how reality must conform to your preferred dictionary definition. I'm sure the cosmos is deeply concerned with your linguistic preferences.
 
>meaningless word salad

if you had anything useful to say you would have done it in 2 sentences max. my argument is a pretty simple lingiusitic one - the notion of 'god' in the conventional use of the term is fundamentally linked to an anthopomorphic being that gives a shit about the affairs of humans.
And, please, don't embarrass yourself by making such a broad accusation of me using AI lmfao

1730406259072
 
So arrogant to think complex metaphysical truths must conform to your arbitrary two-sentence limit. By that logic, quantum physics must be false since it can't be explained in a TikTok 😂

Your "linguistic" argument is just semantic games. It's like saying "unicorns mean horses with horns, therefore all four-legged mammals are the same as no mammals existing." You're conflating popular understanding with philosophical reality.

Again, your argument fails because:
  1. The term "God" has ALWAYS had multiple meanings in philosophical discourse, from Aristotle's Unmoved Mover to Spinoza's Nature to Aquinas's Ground of Being.
  2. Your "conventional use" argument is just an appeal to popularity. A logical fallacy so basic it's embarrassing you'd rely on it.
  3. You're essentially saying "Most people think of God one way, therefore all other conceptions are invalid." That's like saying "Most people think of atoms as tiny solid balls, therefore quantum mechanics is false"

The fact you think reducing existence itself to "giving a shit about human affairs" is somehow philosophically sophisticated rather than embarrassingly anthropocentric just shows the intellectual depth we're dealing with here.

But, please, tell me more about how reality must conform to your preferred dictionary definition. I'm sure the cosmos is deeply concerned with your linguistic preferences.
You dominated him bro next do me
 
View attachment 3270558

You're embarrassing yourself.

So arrogant to think complex metaphysical truths must conform to your arbitrary two-sentence limit. By that logic, quantum physics must be false since it can't be explained in a TikTok 😂

Your "linguistic" argument is just semantic games. It's like saying "unicorns mean horses with horns, therefore all four-legged mammals are the same as no mammals existing." You're conflating popular understanding with philosophical reality.

Again, your argument fails because:
  1. The term "God" has ALWAYS had multiple meanings in philosophical discourse, from Aristotle's Unmoved Mover to Spinoza's Nature to Aquinas's Ground of Being.
  2. Your "conventional use" argument is just an appeal to popularity. A logical fallacy so basic it's embarrassing you'd rely on it.
  3. You're essentially saying "Most people think of God one way, therefore all other conceptions are invalid." That's like saying "Most people think of atoms as tiny solid balls, therefore quantum mechanics is false"

The fact you think reducing existence itself to "giving a shit about human affairs" is somehow philosophically sophisticated rather than embarrassingly anthropocentric just shows the intellectual depth we're dealing with here.

But, please, tell me more about how reality must conform to your preferred dictionary definition. I'm sure the cosmos is deeply concerned with your linguistic preferences.
quantum mechanics - it can be explained with a low enough number of equations that i can count them on my hands

the word atheism has mutiple meanings in philosphical discourse. two can play at this game if your strategy is to make words mean whatever you want them to.

language is use - read wittgenstein

human consciousness can only be anthropomorphic - thinking you can view things from a point of 'philsophical sophistication' is lauaghably naive
 
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TBH only a high IQ individual can write this imo
 
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quantum mechanics - it can be explained with a low enough number of equations that i can count them on my hands
Spectacular. You've confused mathematical notation with actual comprehension. The Schrödinger equation is one equation : try explaining what it MEANS in two sentences. I'll wait. Wave-particle duality? Quantum entanglement? The measurement problem? But hey, you can count the symbols, so you must understand it, right?

language is use - read wittgenstein
Hiding behind Wittgenstein's language games while completely missing his point is so fucking mind-boggling to me. He argued against private language and for meaning through use . He didn't argue that popular usage determines metaphysical reality. You're using him as a philosophical security blanket while missing the deeper implications 😂

human consciousness can only be anthropomorphic
This is the kind of circular reasoning that passes for profundity in undergraduate philosophy classes. Of course human consciousness has human characteristics . That's a TAUTOLOGY. The question is whether reality itself is limited to human perspectives.

You're essentially arguing:
  1. Humans can only think in human terms
  2. Therefore reality can only be what humans conventionally think it is
  3. Therefore conventional definitions determine truth

This is so philosophically naive it's actually almost precious. You know this is like "Dogs can only perceive in dog terms, therefore reality is limited to what dogs can perceive."...right?

Your whole entire argument has collapsed into radical subjectivism:
If language use determines reality, then truth becomes impossible and your own argument defeats itself. You can't even claim your position is true without contradicting your premise.

I genuinely think our next discussion should be how counting equations on your fingers isn't quite the same as understanding quantum mechanics.

Because if we're playing the Wittgenstein card, we should probably discuss his views on the mystical and transcendent. Or would that require too many sentences?
 
I really appreciate the effort and thought that went into this post.

Would you like to debate the existence of god with me?

My stance is that it's highly unlikely that a god created every else in existence.

18. THE COMPLEXITY ARGUMENT

View attachment 3269658
"But God would have to be more complex than the universe, so you haven't solved anything!"
My claim is not that god would have to be "more complex than the universe" but that it's more oddly specific and therefore less likely than other explanations.

This just betrays a kindergarten-level understanding of metaphysics.
God isn't a complex physical being. God is SIMPLE. Pure actuality. Pure being itself. The source of complexity, not a complex thing.
Saying something is not physical is another way of saying it's not real. That it doesn't really exist.

Because once you're forced to define what god actually "is", you realize this thing you're imagining just magically exists for no reason at all is extremely complex and specific.

I don't want to strawman you, so in order to figure out how complex what you define as "god" we should start by figuring out what properties, abilities, and preferences what you imagine to be "god" is.

As far as you define god:

Does it have preferences about reality?
If so what are it's preferences?
Is it able to manipulate reality towards those preferences?

What I'm driving at here is the necessary complexity to represent both it's cognition (thinking abilities) and preferences (values/morals/goals).
 
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