🙏 ATHEISTIC ARGUMENTS DEBUNKED 🙏

[noodlelover]

The double-slit experiment clearly shows that observation changes particle behavior, suggesting a direct link between consciousness and reality. MWI doesn’t explain why observation correlates with wavefunction collapse, it just sidesteps the question.

Observers have nothing to do with it. The wave function collapses when the light particle hits ANYTHING. It has nothing to do with consciousness or "observers".

I don't fault you for having the "observer effect" interpretation as that's the interpretation most popularly spread because people want to believe in these things. I believed it as well for many years before I stumbled upon the correct interpretation of the studies. Sadly, everything you believed, I once believed before I had time to uncover what was real.

If you can fully get you're head around the concept of memes (Mind viruses) that evolve to maximize their spread, you might get a better understanding of various religions, supernatural beliefs, and even why the magical fun sounding interpterion of the double slit experiment is much more popular than the true interpterion, that the wave function collapses when it hits anything.

Moreover, phenomena like the placebo effect,

This is because there's intelligence emergent from the collective of your cells and your cells can have goals and cooperate. Michael Levin has done a lot of work on this, showing that with the right signals an animals cells in it's back can be triggered to grow a working eye for example, or regrow limbs, etc.

In a placebo the brain is the system sending the electrical signals for the rest of the cells in the body to do something, but it's not magic.

OBEs, and NDEs, Past live memories

These are a combination of different things:

1. Outright Frauds. Some of these are frauds for attention.
2. Most of these experiences are guided imagination, where your subconscious fills in the gaps with what it knows about the past, your location, and other locations.

People lie, hallucinate, have false memories, and mis-interpret their sensory data based on their pre-existing beliefs. This has been the cause of religion, superstition, and "super" natural beliefs. Which is why we have scientific processes to demine what's really going on. Such as the AWARE studies on NDEs.

highlight that consciousness isn’t just a property of matter, it can influence and interact with the physical world in ways not yet fully understood. Ignoring these links while dismissing consciousness-based models as "woo-woo" is willful ignorance

Nobody claimed anything to be magical, you claimed consciousness is property of matter, If something is property of matter for example "Elasticity" is indeed property of matter it can observed, demonstrated and measured for it be a scientific fact, Consciousness on the other hand can only be observed affecting the reality but can't be explained, demonstrated or measured, consciousness involves subjective experiences, which is called "qualia" which cannot be measured or fully explained by the interaction of particles or atoms. These subjective experiences point to something more than just the physical brain, Which all points to the fact that consciousness isn't physical nor magical

Consciousness is an illusion of matter. We are the matter, and we ask ourselves what is this "I am experience" when it's just the matter and energy "Being" or "existing".

All religions possess both an esoteric and an exoteric dimension. The exoteric meaning, what’s openly taught to the masses serves to maintain societal order and provide moral guidance. In contrast, the esoteric meaning contains deeper, encoded knowledge conveyed through parables, stories, and metaphors. These layers of meaning allow profound spiritual truths, such as the concept of interconnected consciousness, to be accessible across different levels of understanding, ensuring even complex ideas can resonate with people of all ages and capacities.

Take John 14:20 as an example: "When I am raised to life again, you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you." At face value, this speaks of a relationship between Jesus, God, and humanity. However, when examined beyond its literal interpretation, it reveals the interconnectedness of all existence. It suggests a singular, unified consciousness what some may call the divine that permeates and connects every individual, transcending physical separations and distinctions. The fact that all religions esoterically point to this one idea of inter connected consciousness cannot be dismissed as coincidental

I agree with you that all consciousness is unified in a way. Consciousness is mater and energy existing, and all matter and energy is connected by gravitational pulls and sometimes other forces. Some clusters of matter are much more connected than others, so we refer to those as intelligent agents when they have learning.

No we didn't, That’s a false equivalency. Artificial intelligence doesn’t even possess consciousness it operates purely on algorithms

Just like the rest of reality.

and large language models (LLMs) that can be observed, measured, demonstrated, and predicted with precision.

I'm coining a new term "Consciousness of the Gaps". The "God of the Gaps" fallacy is the logical fallacy that god is whatever we don't yet fully understand about reality. So as science figure more and more things out, the imaginary god is shoved in to explain a smaller and smaller gap in what science doesn't yet understand.

The "Consciousness of the Gaps" fallacy is the same but for intelligence being explained by consciousness.

The fact that this profound knowledge of interconnected consciousness and the unity of all existence has been consistently echoed across various cultures and traditions, dating back to ancient Egypt, is a strong indicator of its significance.

I've read the Hermetica. It's an obvious conclusion that everything is connected, we see causality and physical forces connecting entities and things everywhere.

This universal wisdom—expressed through symbols, parables, and esoteric teachings suggests that humanity has always had access to a deeper understanding of reality. Yet, those in positions of power have historically invested immense resources, including billions of dollars, into reshaping this knowledge into the concept of an external, separate God. This deliberate shift is not coincidental but rather a calculated effort to distance individuals from the realization of their own divine nature and interconnectedness.

By projecting divinity outward, into an unattainable realm, these power structures create dependence and control, perpetuating systems of hierarchy and separation. Such efforts highlight a clear distinction: the suppression of internal, self-realized divinity aligns with agendas of control, while the preservation and rediscovery of esoteric truths align with liberation and enlightenment. The persistence of these teachings, despite attempts to obscure them, is itself a testament to their importance and resilience. The lengths to which this knowledge has been suppressed only reinforce its profound truth and transformative potential for humanity

The focus on carbon is directly relevant to the discussion about the basis of organic life. Carbon is the backbone of organic molecules, forming the complex structures that define living systems. The connection to 666 in Revelation 13:18 is symbolic, not literal chemistry, but it’s worth noting that carbon atoms have six protons, six neutrons, and six electrons whether you view this as coincidence or metaphor is up to interpretation and wouldn't matter.

Consciousness is not simply an emergent property of organic molecules like carbon, but carbon-based organic systems provide the framework for life as we understand it.

Carbon is the most abundant non-gas molecule in the measurable universe. Above that, we have Hydrogen, Helium, and Oxygen which are gasses.

So by pure probability, it makes sense that most life in the universe would evolve from carbon and other materials. Cells are primarily made of Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Nitrogen, and Phosphorus.

This doesn't mean we can't build life without carbon, or that it didn't evolve somewhere in the universe without carbon.

A carbon nanotube or plastic bottle containing carbon is fundamentally different from the dynamic, interconnected biochemical processes occurring in living organisms. These processes allow for the complexity of consciousness

What matter is doing effects the "experience" of "consciousness". I put experience in quotes, because it's a word to describe matter doing what it's doing, but we have the illusion that we are some how special and different from say a hurricane. A hurricane is doing something different than our brains and bodies, but we have no valid reason to believe it is less conscious.

not because carbon is conscious on its own, but because it is essential in creating the molecular environment for life to arise. Consciousness transcends being just another 'organic makeup'; it is the phenomenon that emerges uniquely from the interplay of these carbon-based structures.

Nothing "magically" happens in the universe, Nobody claimed anything to be magical, everything is a byproduct of an unfolding event in an eternal present

Right, there's no intelligence or decisions being made without a clockwork mechanism.

 

[IOS]

i read it

hes banned ig now

 

[Gmogger]

Observers have nothing to do with it. The wave function collapses when the light particle hits ANYTHING. It has nothing to do with consciousness or "observers".

I don't fault you for having the "observer effect" interpretation as that's the interpretation most popularly spread because people want to believe in these things. I believed it as well for many years before I stumbled upon the correct interpretation of the studies. Sadly, everything you believed, I once believed before I had time to uncover what was real.

If you can fully get you're head around the concept of memes (Mind viruses) that evolve to maximize their spread, you might get a better understanding of various religions, supernatural beliefs, and even why the magical fun sounding interpterion of the double slit experiment is much more popular than the true interpterion, that the wave function collapses when it hits anything.






This is because there's intelligence emergent from the collective of your cells and your cells can have goals and cooperate. Michael Levin has done a lot of work on this, showing that with the right signals an animals cells in it's back can be triggered to grow a working eye for example, or regrow limbs, etc.

In a placebo the brain is the system sending the electrical signals for the rest of the cells in the body to do something, but it's not magic.


These are a combination of different things:

1. Outright Frauds. Some of these are frauds for attention.
2. Most of these experiences are guided imagination, where your subconscious fills in the gaps with what it knows about the past, your location, and other locations.

People lie, hallucinate, have false memories, and mis-interpret their sensory data based on their pre-existing beliefs. This has been the cause of religion, superstition, and "super" natural beliefs. Which is why we have scientific processes to demine what's really going on. Such as the AWARE studies on NDEs.


Consciousness is an illusion of matter. We are the matter, and we ask ourselves what is this "I am experience" when it's just the matter and energy "Being" or "existing".

I agree with you that all consciousness is unified in a way. Consciousness is mater and energy existing, and all matter and energy is connected by gravitational pulls and sometimes other forces. Some clusters of matter are much more connected than others, so we refer to those as intelligent agents when they have learning.


Just like the rest of reality.

I'm coining a new term "Consciousness of the Gaps". The "God of the Gaps" fallacy is the logical fallacy that god is whatever we don't yet fully understand about reality. So as science figure more and more things out, the imaginary god is shoved in to explain a smaller and smaller gap in what science doesn't yet understand.

The "Consciousness of the Gaps" fallacy is the same but for intelligence being explained by consciousness.

I've read the Hermetica. It's an obvious conclusion that everything is connected, we see causality and physical forces connecting entities and things everywhere.


Carbon is the most abundant non-gas molecule in the measurable universe. Above that, we have Hydrogen, Helium, and Oxygen which are gasses.

So by pure probability, it makes sense that most life in the universe would evolve from carbon and other materials. Cells are primarily made of Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Nitrogen, and Phosphorus.

This doesn't mean we can't build life without carbon, or that it didn't evolve somewhere in the universe without carbon.


What matter is doing effects the "experience" of "consciousness". I put experience in quotes, because it's a word to describe matter doing what it's doing, but we have the illusion that we are some how special and different from say a hurricane. A hurricane is doing something different than our brains and bodies, but we have no valid reason to believe it is less conscious.


Right, there's no intelligence or decisions being made without a clockwork mechanism.

hmm a new perspective, definitely something I need to look into more

 

[King Solomon]

The best arguments for GOD ranked


G Tier: God Tier status (God is inevitable and there is no more debate as this is undeniable proof of the existence of GOD and no holes in this argument exist).

S Tier (Nearly a slam dunk or mic drop arguments as at least one element that doesn't disprove it but brings up more questions than answers)

A Tier ( convincing for a vast majority of people but not the hardcore anti-theists but has a couple slight gaps in the armor)

B Tier ( Compelling for over 50% of the population but has multiple major glaring holes holes)

C Tier (Convincing for few people but has some interesting aspects to make one think).

D Tier (Straight up only convincing retards or black people but nobody else (jk jk).

F Tier (convincing to not a single soul)


G Tier:
1.) Information Theory and The Computational Problem:

a.) The DNA structure which contain bases or nucleotide bases on inside of double helix r functioning like alphabetic characters like in a written language or like 0's and 0's in a software code. It's not the physical or chemical properties of those bases, rather it's their sequential arrangement in accord with an independent code which is why we now call it a genetic code. A code requires a coder and our DNA code requires a creator of some kind. This is a true information baring system that is expressing information as it happens for building the proteins and protein machines that cells require to stay alive. You have information directing the construction of proteins and protein machines necessary for survivability. The question is where does that information come from and what kind of information is it. This is functional information and that's the information that in our experience always indicates the prior activity of intelligence. If the information is very specific and complex and operating in accord with a symbol convention then you have information that's the product of mind.

b.) Could there have been such a strand of DNA that comes about by pure random chance just pure accident that these things arise given enough times and eventually you'll end up with an evolution combined with natural selection it preserves mutations that are good and you come up with something that's designed. This fails to work because of a mathematical problem or mathematical inflation. Qe know from our experience with software code writing that the last thing you qant in a section of functional code is a series of random changes to those 0s and 1s. If that happens you'll degrade the information that's in that code, long before you'll ever generate a new software program or op system. There's a reason that changes software at random variably degrades the information before you get anything useful and new because there's so many more qays for things to go wrong to where an infinite amount of randomly changing things is going to inevitably end up as gibberish for a sequence than a functional one. To quantify this, the quantitively odds of how rare or common are the functional sequences that would make a new protein or new gene making a new protein, how rare are the functional ones compared to the none functional ones. for a short protein of 150 amino acids long, the ratio of functional to non functional sequences is about 1 to the 10 to the 77th power. There are only 10 to the 65th atoms in the Milkyway galaxy. This means that a random search for a new functional sequence is going to be like looking for one atom among 1 trillion galaxes of the size of the Milkyway. Even four billion years of history is insufficient time to solve the search problem of that magnitude. It's overwhelmingly more probable that such a search will fail then succeed in the known time of life on planet earth. This means the hypothesis that the mechanism that's producing the neq information is more likely to be false than true.

So overall it's exponentially more likely that the code behind everything in existence is more likely to be generated by intelligent design than by random chance. If you have alphabet cereal that's on the table and says John please take the trash out this morning and do not forget this time. It's much more likely that this qas a human that hand picked this sequence instead of it just being spilled accidently onto the table creating this perfect sequence by pure chance. If you see that you're going to take out the damn trash than to ignore it because you think it's just purely random chance those letters were sequenced in that way.

You would have to be incredibly biased against intelligent design behind functional information or have gone through a traumatic or emotional event to completely deny the obvious mathematical odds being insurmountable against random chance for functional information.

2.) Fulfillment of prophecy (specifically the Christian bible). Just 8 of the biblical prophecies coming to fruition is 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000. He fulfilled roughly 400 biblical prophecies from the old testament. Over 2,000 biblical prophecies have come to fruition including thousands of prophecies after the death of Jesus and still more are occurring to this very day. The probability of all these prophecies being fulfilled isn't even mathematically quantifiable at this point so it's just an impossibility. No human, group of humans, or AI could've done something like this and therefore it must come from intelligent design. You have better odds of being struck by lightening than Jesus did in fulfilling just one of these prophecies. You had better odds of even just existing than all the prophecies of Jesus being fulfilled. No other religion, person (past or present), AI system, etc is even close to their/it's prophecies being fulfilled at this level.



S Tier:
1.) Contingency argument: Contingent = something exists or doesn't. Most things that exist in life are contingent: (Tree, car, moon, kittens, humans, etc) in that they didn't need to exist. Contingent things are contingent on some other thing (seed, humans, space, male and female cat/humans mating). Lastly, a group of contingent things is itself always contingent and dependent on something (Humans (parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc, sun, earth, etc. If you take the group of all contingent things that must depend on the existence of something. But is this something contingent? No, because then it would be part of the group of all contingent things. Therefore this something must be non-contingent or necessary and necessary thing cannot fail to exist and must exist. All space, time and matter seem contingent so there must be some necessary existing spaceless, timeless and immaterial entity upon which all contingent reality depends. This sounds suspiciously like GOD.

2.) Fine Tuning Argument: This is a teleological argument as it establishes God's existence through an observation of the world around us. The various constants of the initial conditions of the universe, various constants of the universe, laws of physics they have certain parameters existing where they must be within an extremely narrow range like 10 to the power of 44. So many of these things must exist in a very narrow range to support the existence embodied concours creatures. For example the cosmological constant, if you increase it ever so slightly the universe collapses in on itself, if you decrease the size ever so slightly then things expand qay to far apart then atoms couldn't even form and then no life exists in those instances. So in all these constants if there's just a slight movement in one direction or the other then life ceases to exist as we know it. Essentially the Universe appears as though it was designed for life to exist. To make this more profound I'll provide a feq more examples. Say there qas a hypothetical scenarios where dimes covered every square inch of north America so no space exists between any dime. Then say they stacked those dimes to the moon. Now increase that amount a billion times. If I were to blindfold you and to tell you to guess where the one red dime is inside this stack your probability of locating this dime is one in 10 to the 37th Power chance. This is the same level of precision required for the strong nuclear force and rate of universe expansion and if you're just a dime in either direction then we don't get a universe that doesn't support life. It's like if you were to see someone at the poker table qin 10 hands in a row with all royal flushes every time, you'd say the game is rigged. It's highly unlikely for all these extremely improbable constants can exists simultaneously without a divine creator.

Some examples

A Tier:

1.) The legitimacy of the Gospels:

So Jesus has been historically verified by many credible outside the bible as have the apostles. This is just setting up grounds for the foundation because people require external biblical proofs to at least see these people existed. So, we know they existed but did Jesus get tortured, crucified, died and resurrect as the gospels proclaim.

a.) The Shroud of Turin is undeniable evidence of the birth, torture, crucifixion, death and resurrection. No other person was crucified in this manner, the Shroud has been dated to 2,000 years ago, all the marks and things on this shroud align with the biblical accounts perfectly and no human, or machine can create this image today or in the past.

b.) Logic: The apostles didn't even know Jesus was going to resurrect nor did they believe him and they even denied him and distanced themselves from him during his crucifixion to avoid being punished in similar fashion. However, after they seed the Shroud and seen him in person they then gave up their family, friends, lives, wealth, resources, and eventually murdered for preaching the gospel. They gained no earthly rewards for their testimony, no power, status (perhaps later in time after death), fortune, sex, resources, etc). All they received as an earthly reward was a gruesome death. Why on earth would 12 men risk their lives for a lie after they had previously denied this man and distance themselves from him during the crucifixion but after the crucifixion they deviated their entire lives and got rid of everything else just to preach the gospel long after the death of Jesus. That makes 0 logical sense especially if they received no earthly reward. The other so called religions are not under duress and the people creating them are giving human accounts of the biblical truths and create myths and legends or pure plagiarism of some aspects mixed with pagan worship like Islam and or Judaism.

2.) Math:

Science is able to tell us about the natural qorld but science by definition sciences can't tell us qhetere there's anything outside the natural qorld or supernatural. GOD = supernatural all knoqing mind qho is everyqhere and can do everything. Math is about numbers and information about those numbers and qays numbers ocnnect to each other. Qhere to qe find this math? Math is in the mind, and find it by thinking about it and figuring more and more things out. Math explains everything from simple counting to the movement of planets. For anything you can think of, math can explain what's going on even down to the atomic language. So mathi is in our minds and explains the natural world then where does it come from.

a.) Math is something qe invented to explain what we observe in the Natural world and that means the origin of math is natural.

b.) Math is already there because it controls the universe and we discovered it. If that's true then the origin of math is supernatural.


Option (b) is correct, math contains infinite information. There's an infinite number of numbers each containing their own properties and an infinite number of numbers between numbers. Qe also just keep discovering things, like PI which is the # that explains the area of a circle, has an infinite number of digits that qe keep discovering by doing calculations. If we were just making this stuff up then we can make PI out to be whatever number we qant to be. Qe can't do this because it's not true. Qe know all this information is out there somewhere. It can't be in our physical reality because it's finite and math is infinite which means math contains every possible combination of numbers. If we use numbers as code for letters then math contains every possible combination of letters as well. That means every book that has ever been written already exists encoded in math somewhere. In fact every book that could be written already exists in math. If we use numbers as code for particles and their locations then you can say there's an exact copy of our universe encoded in math. That's why math can't be contained in our physical reality.

Math only exists in the mind, so it's origin must also be in mind. Math contains infinite info so the mind must be all knowing. Math controls the universe so this mind must be all powerful. Math is beyond and outside our natural world so this mind must be supernatural and this describes GOD. All these numbers and mathematical facts exists in the infinite mind of GOD. It's not just mathematical truth that exists in the mind of GOD but also moral truth, and all other truth. Goodness, truth and beauty are just mere opinions of the human mind unless there's a supreme mind aka GOD that rules over all human opinions. Because math is beyond time, space and limits, the existence of math proves the existence of GOD because math is in the mind of GOD.

Math is the language with which God has written the universe or the very fabric of our existence has math behind it. Frequency and vibration is the glue that holds this material world together and this is why GOD spoke this reality into existence because speech itself is a frequence/vibration. This could be another proof in itself. If you've ever looked up the studies on water molecules and how their structures changes just from words you'll be amazed. Saying things like Jesus, beautiful, happy, love, heal, kindness, etc make these beautiful structures in the water molecules but words like evil, devil, hate, kill, murder, injure, harm, depressed, sad, etc create these horrific and chaotic looking structures in the water molecules.

C.) Based on actual eye witness accounts that line up with non biblical historical documents. There are no eye witnesses for any of the other so called religions.

D.) Gospels written immediately after the death of Jesus not decades or hundreds of years later. The misconception that these were written too long after the death of Jesus is false. The true OG apostles of Jesus created their sermons or writings immediately after Jesus' death and preached this same gospel frequently for decades. Then once the Apostles started to be attacked then they started to make these sermon's/accounts/testimony's and transcribed them into books to join together to preserve their teachings before they were to be murdered. Paulus/Saulus is the only one real life eye witness and only one to write his books decades later because he's a false apostle, false prophet, Edomite/Canaanite, Royal Herodian, Roman Citizen, Christian killer, liar, etc.

So the combination of the logical reasoning for the eye witnesses of Jesus, the anthropological artifacts discovered prove these testimonies, the non biblical historical references confirm the existence of these biblical people, and lastly the timing of the writings of the Gospel by the apostles makes this a very creditable overall argument for the existence of a Christian GOD.


B Tier:

1.) Existence of a Soul: I believe there are sufficient arguments to undeniably see there's a creator. BUT, some atheist puppets are taking the new age approach against theism by saying it's simply a simulation like the matrix. The one major thing that debunks this the existence of a soul.

a.) Energy isn't created or destroyed it's simply transferred. So you don't just go into the dirt and merge with your creator in nothing you go into the dirt and your consciousness is transferred to your soul or astral body which enters an alternate dimension aka heaven or hell or one can be on earth while in this soul body but not send by the naked eye.

b.) Millions of people have testimonies of heaven, hell, and Jesus while in their soul body which they claim to be more real than our physical body meaning the eternal dimensions of heaven or hell is the base existence as is your soul and this physical material world and your body is only temporary as it's designed obsolescence.

c.) The thousands of years of masters, witchcraft, etc all practicing astral projections. The Gateway experience created by the CIA which took these lessons from these various masters and created their own program to set people on the fast tract to basically harness super power like capabilities and to spy on others via astral travel.

 

[metacognitivist]

also your arguments resmeble chat gpt = giga low sentience trait

im glad im not the only one that noticed this, everything he said sounded like it was gpt written and edited by him to sound more human

 

[>_<.]

High IQ, serious, will rep

 

[NickGar]

Niggas really be spewing out their entire vocabulary comprised of complex linguistical terms on a curry forum about mewing

 

[mug]

Amen

I believe in God

 

[buddy]

Take it to a publisher nigger, all of this christcuck cope threw my day off

 

[varoo]

Take it to a publisher nigger, all of this christcuck cope threw my day off

christ deniers always gotta be the biggest haters.
if the Christian gospel is not true, we are screwed. there is no other hope in life (objectivley lets all kill ourselves, if you REALLY sit down and think about it) if another religion is true we gotta work for our salvation which is like walking up and infinite staircase as finite beings. if you listen to Jesus teachings and the writings of the bible it speaks to the soul like nothing else. like all things it takes faith. but i dont got the time to debate all up and down.
Id just be more mature in the way you speak bro

 

[Society hates me]

INTRODUCTION

I'll be breaking down why these supposedly "killer" atheistic arguments are fundamentally flawed.
View attachment 3269608

TABLE OF CONTENTS:

1. The Problem of Evil
2. Scientific Materialism
3. The "Who Created God?" Comeback
4. Divine Hiddenness
5. Evolution
6. The Consciousness Problem
7. Morality
10. The "God of the Gaps" Dismissal
11. Free Will and Determinism
12. The Information Problem
13. The "Religious People Are Less Intelligent" Smugness
14. Historical Jesus Denialism
15. The "Science vs. Religion" False Dichotomy
16. The Problem of Meaning
17. The Social Utility Dodge
18. The Complexity Argument
19. The "You Can't Prove It" Last Resort

1. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL

View attachment 3269644
"Muh, if God exists, why do bad things happen?"

This is probably the most emotionally manipulative and intellectually lazy argument atheists trot out.

First, this betrays an embarrassingly childish view of reality. What exactly do you expect? a universe that's basically a padded playpen? Where no one ever faces challenges or consequences? That would create a species of pathetic, underdeveloped beings with no capacity for growth or meaningful choice.

The existence of evil and suffering is PRECISELY what you'd expect in a universe designed to develop beings capable of genuine moral choice and spiritual growth. It's like complaining that a gym has weights that are "too heavy." That's the whole point! Without resistance, there's no strength development.

And let's be brutally honest: most atheists making this argument aren't really concerned about children starving in Africa. They're using others' suffering as a rhetorical weapon while living comfortable lives. If they cared that much about suffering, they'd be selling their smartphones and donating everything to charity.

2. SCIENTIFIC MATERIALISM

View attachment 3269671
"Science explains everything!"

No, it absolutely doesn't, and any scientist worth their salt would cringe at this shitty claim.

Science is a methodology for studying material phenomena. It's like saying "My metal detector explains everything!" No, it explains things that can be detected by metal detectors.

Science can't explain:
- Why there are logical laws
- Why mathematics works
- Why consciousness exists
- Why there's something rather than nothing
- Why the universe follows comprehensible laws at all
- Why the physical constants are fine-tuned for life

And, before you say
"we'll figure those out eventually" that's not science, that's FAITH.
You're basically saying "Science will provide!" like a religious mantra.

3. THE "WHO CREATED GOD?" COMEBACK

View attachment 3269637
Ladies and gentlemen, this is what happens when you don't understand basic metaphysics.

It's like asking "What's north of the North Pole?" It's a category error so basic it's almost embarrassing to address.

The whole POINT of God in classical theism is that God is the ground of being itself - the uncaused cause. Asking "Who created God?" shows you don't even understand the basic concept you're attempting to critique. It's like saying "I disproved numbers because I can't weigh them!"

4. DIVINE HIDDENNESS

View attachment 3269635
"If God exists, why doesn't he just appear on CNN?"

Have you actually thought this through? Like, really thought about it? What exactly would constitute "sufficient evidence" for you? A giant face in the sky? Then you'd just claim it was aliens or mass hallucination. A miracle? Same thing.

The evidence is actually overwhelming for those willing to see it:
- The existence of anything at all rather than nothing
- The comprehensibility of the universe
- The fine-tuning of physical constants
- The emergence of consciousness
- The universal human experience of transcendence
- The existence of objective moral truths

But here's the real thing:
if God's existence were as obvious as the sun, there would be no possibility of genuine choice or relationship. It would be like trying to develop a "relationship" with gravity. The hiddenness is NECESSARY for genuine faith and choice to exist.

5. EVOLUTION
View attachment 3269643
"Evolution explains everything about life!"

No, it explains changes in existing life forms. It doesn't explain:
- How life originated from non-life (abiogenesis)
- How consciousness emerged
- Why humans have capacities far beyond survival needs
- The origin of moral consciousness
- The fine-tuning necessary for evolution to work at all

Evolution is perfectly compatible with theism. It's actually what you'd EXPECT from a rational God; a universe that develops according to rational principles rather than constant miraculous interventions.

6. THE CONSCIOUSNESS PROBLEM

Atheists love to handwave this away: "It's just emergent properties of brain activity!"

View attachment 3269645
Really? REALLY?

Let's talk about the hard problem of consciousness. How does purely physical matter generate subjective experience? Why do you have an inner world at all? Why aren't you just a biological robot responding to stimuli?

In a materialist framework, consciousness is literally impossible to explain. You're telling me random particle interactions somehow generated the ability to contemplate their own existence? That's like saying if you shake up a jar of coins long enough, they'll become self-aware. It's absurd on its face.

7. MORALITY

View attachment 3269646
"We don't need God for morality! We can be good without God!"

This completely misses the point. The question isn't whether atheists can ACT morally, of course they can. The question is whether OBJECTIVE morality can exist without God.

In a purely materialist universe, morality is just evolved behavior patterns or social conventions. That means:
- The Holocaust wasn't really wrong, it was just something we evolved to dislike
- Love isn't really good, it's just a chemical reaction that aided survival
- Justice isn't really justice, it's just a social construct
- Human rights aren't real, they're just ideas we made up

You can't derive an "ought" from an "is." You can't get real moral truth from atoms bouncing around. Period.

8. THE "RELIGION IS JUST CULTURAL" ARGUMENT

View attachment 3269692
"If you were born in India, you'd be Hindu! Therefore all religion is relative!" (Yes, people really do use this dumbass argument.)

This is possibly the weakest argument I've ever heard.

By that logic:
- If you were born in ancient times, you'd believe the Earth was flat, therefore the Earth isn't round
- If you were born in Nazi Germany, you'd be a Nazi, therefore anti-Nazi views are just cultural
- If you were born in a pre-scientific society, you wouldn't believe in science, therefore science isn't true

The ORIGIN of a belief has nothing to do with its TRUTH VALUE. This is basic logic, people!

9. THE MULTIVERSE ESCAPE HATCH

View attachment 3269648
When confronted with the fine-tuning of our universe, atheists often retreat to: "Well, maybe there are infinite universes!"

Let's appreciate the irony here: These same people mock believers for having "faith" in an unseen God, while having faith in an infinite number of unseen universes. At least God is a SIMPLE explanation. You're multiplying entities beyond necessity to avoid the obvious conclusion.

10. THE "GOD OF THE GAPS" DISMISSAL

View attachment 3269689
"You're just using God to explain what science hasn't figured out yet!"

No, we're making inferences to the best explanation based on the evidence we have. The fact that the universe:

- Exists at all
- Is mathematically ordered
- Is comprehensible to our minds
- Produced conscious beings
- Contains objective moral truths
- Appears fine-tuned for life

ALL points to a rational, conscious, moral Mind as the ground of reality. This isn't filling gaps — it's following the evidence where it leads.

11. FREE WILL AND DETERMINISM

Here's something deliciously ironic: Most atheists who pride themselves on "following reason" can't even justify their ability to reason in the first place.

In a purely materialist universe, free will is impossible. You're just atoms following physical laws. Your thoughts aren't products of reason - they're just inevitable chemical reactions.

But then:
- Why trust any of your conclusions?
- Why believe in science?
- Why argue for anything?
- Why even believe in determinism itself?

You've created a self-defeating worldview. You're using reason to argue that reason isn't real. It's intellectual suicide.

12. THE INFORMATION PROBLEM

View attachment 3269660
DNA is literally a code - a information storage and transmission system. You know what EVERY code we've ever encountered has in common? They're all products of mind. Every. Single. One.

But suddenly when we find one in nature, we're supposed to believe it just... happened? By accident? That's not skepticism, it's willful blindness.

13. THE "RELIGIOUS PEOPLE ARE LESS INTELLIGENT" BULLSHIT

View attachment 3269661
"Studies show religious people have lower IQs!"

First, correlation isn't causation, you dumbfuck.

Second, even if true, SO WHAT? Truth isn't determined by IQ scores. Newton was deeply religious. So was Kepler. So was Planck. Were they all idiots?

This is just intellectual snobbery masquerading as argument. It's what you resort to when you can't engage with the actual philosophical arguments.

14. HISTORICAL JESUS DENIALISM

View attachment 3269662
"Jesus probably didn't exist!"


ACTUAL atheist historians: View attachment 3269664


We have better historical evidence for Jesus than for most ancient figures. Denying his existence isn't skepticism anymore, it's conspiracy theory thinking.

The REAL question is what you make of the evidence. But please, at least engage with actual history rather than internet-level pseudo-scholarship.

15. THE "SCIENCE VS. RELIGION" FALSE DICHOTOMY

Modern science EMERGED FROM a theistic worldview!!! The belief that the universe follows rational laws discoverable by human minds makes perfect sense if we're created by a rational God. It makes NO sense if we're cosmic accidents.

Why should monkey brains that evolved for survival be able to do quantum mechanics? The fact that mathematics can describe reality is a MIRACLE that materialists take totally for granted.

16. THE PROBLEM OF MEANING

View attachment 3269666
In an atheistic universe:
- Your consciousness is an illusion
- Your sense of free will is an illusion
- Your sense of moral truth is an illusion
- Your sense of meaning is an illusion
- Your love is just chemicals
- Your hopes are just neural patterns
- Your entire subjective experience is just an evolutionary trick

And they call religious people deluded?
At least we accept reality as we actually experience it rather than explaining it all away.

Here's the ultimate irony: Atheism requires MORE faith than theism. You have to believe:
- Something came from nothing
- Order came from chaos
- Life came from non-life
- Reason came from irrationality
- Consciousness came from unconsciousness
- Morality came from amorality
- Purpose came from purposelessness

And all by ACCIDENT!

The real question isn't whether God exists. The real question is why some people work so hard to avoid the obvious conclusion. Because let's be honest - if there is no God:
- Nothing ultimately matters
- All meaning is invented
- All morality is arbitrary
- All purpose is pretend
- All hope is delusion

Is that really more rational than theism? Or is it just more comfortable for those who want to be their own gods?

17. THE SOCIAL UTILITY DODGE

View attachment 3269672
"Religion was just invented to control people!"

Oh, really?

Let's talk about what atheists have to invent to make their worldview bearable:

- Objective meaning in a meaningless universe
- Real moral values in an amoral cosmos
- Genuine purpose in purposeless existence
- True love in a world of just particles
- Human rights with no transcendent source

Who's inventing comforting myths now?

18. THE COMPLEXITY ARGUMENT

View attachment 3269658
"But God would have to be more complex than the universe, so you haven't solved anything!"

This just betrays a kindergarten-level understanding of metaphysics.
God isn't a complex physical being. God is SIMPLE. Pure actuality. Pure being itself. The source of complexity, not a complex thing.

It's like saying "The rules of mathematics must be more complex than mathematics itself!" No; simple principles can generate complexity. This is Philosophy 101.

19. The "You Can't Prove It" Last Resort

When all else fails, they retreat to:
View attachment 3269673
"Well, you can't PROVE God exists!"

First, we don't have absolute proof of ANYTHING outside of mathematics and logic. We use inference to the best explanation - and God is the best explanation for:
- Existence itself
- Mathematical order
- Conscious experience
- Moral truth
- Universal human religious experience
- Fine-tuning
- Information in DNA
- The comprehensibility of the universe
- The effectiveness of mathematics in describing reality
- The existence of reason itself

CONCLUSION

You know what's fascinating? The more we learn about the universe, the more it points to Mind at its foundation:
- Quantum mechanics shows matter isn't purely material
- Information theory shows mind precedes matter
- Fine-tuning gets more precise with every measurement
- Consciousness remains completely inexplicable in materialist terms

But here's what's really going on: Modern atheism isn't an intellectual position, but a psychological one. It's not about evidence. It's about:
- Avoiding accountability
- Escaping moral absolutes
- Maintaining autonomy
- Playing God in your own life
- Keeping comfortable illusions

The truth is, atheism is the ultimate act of self-deception. You have to:
- Deny your direct experience of consciousness
- Deny your intuitive knowledge of moral truth
- Deny your sense of meaning and purpose
- Deny your recognition of design in nature
- Deny your awareness of transcendent reality

And for what? So you can pretend you're just a clever ape on a cosmic speck with no real purpose or meaning? That's not rationality - that's running from reality.

Why do some people work so hard to deny what's directly in front of them? But hey, if someone wants to believe they're just a meaningless collection of particles that accidentally became conscious... who am I to disturb their faith?

The fascinating thing about truth is: the deeper you dig, THE STRONGER IT GETS.

GOD BLESS.

So which form of Christianity is the right one? Which religion is the right one? There’s thousands of religions that have existed all around the globe and all of them claim to be the right one. So who’s right?

 

[varoo]

So which form of Christianity is the right one? Which religion is the right one? There’s thousands of religions that have existed all around the globe and all of them claim to be the right one. So who’s right?

I would label religion as basically an attempt and understanding the truth of the metaphysical universe. because humans are fallible, there are going to be many different religions because of those many incorrect attempts. but like he said, that doesnt take away from the truth value of legitimate truth. I am going through a similar existential crisis myself, or at least analyzing it as you are, but i think looking from our reference frame of reality we can observe that a God would carry the qualities that the Christian God has. and as we live in a dependable realm it follows an independent realm/being would bring it about, so we have reason to believe God exists. what other religions or attempts at understanding the metaphysical universe fail at is that we as insufficient beings cannot achieve anything on our own. if we are dealing with infinity's as finite beings as we are dependable, we cannot reverse infinite consequences. thats why Jesus had to take or place, because as God is perfect he is perfectly merciful to save us but also perfect just to condemn us. not contradictory, just two simultaneous truths.

 

[Gmogger]

I would label religion as basically an attempt and understanding the truth of the metaphysical universe. because humans are fallible, there are going to be many different religions because of those many incorrect attempts. but like he said, that doesnt take away from the truth value of legitimate truth. I am going through a similar existential crisis myself, or at least analyzing it as you are, but i think looking from our reference frame of reality we can observe that a God would carry the qualities that the Christian God has. and as we live in a dependable realm it follows an independent realm/being would bring it about, so we have reason to believe God exists. what other religions or attempts at understanding the metaphysical universe fail at is that we as insufficient beings cannot achieve anything on our own. if we are dealing with infinity's as finite beings as we are dependable, we cannot reverse infinite consequences. thats why Jesus had to take or place, because as God is perfect he is perfectly merciful to save us but also perfect just to condemn us. not contradictory, just two simultaneous truths.

Proving God does not exist using 'Math, Logic & Reasoning'

The Anti-dogmatic Gate The Concept of 'God' is a war on logic & rational mind, The most abstract concept the man has ever created is the concept "God" a supposed all knowing, all perfect, all powerful and all loving deity that you cannot see, touch, comprehend that somehow exists outside of...

looksmax.org

 

[varoo]

Proving God does not exist using 'Math, Logic & Reasoning'

The Anti-dogmatic Gate The Concept of 'God' is a war on logic & rational mind, The most abstract concept the man has ever created is the concept "God" a supposed all knowing, all perfect, all powerful and all loving deity that you cannot see, touch, comprehend that somehow exists outside of...

looksmax.org

I would like to have a civil conversation with you if you would concur, about this topic. I’m very willing to change my opinion if what you have to say is more reasonable or at least reflect on it, which is what any rational person would do. I would ask you though to do the same otherwise we are just barking which most Reddit degens do. I’m more willing to hear peoples opinions on this as information is important, it should then be discerned to be reasonable or illogical.

 

[Gmogger]

I would like to have a civil conversation with you if you would concur, about this topic. I’m very willing to change my opinion if what you have to say is more reasonable or at least reflect on it, which is what any rational person would do. I would ask you though to do the same otherwise we are just barking which most Reddit degens do. I’m more willing to hear peoples opinions on this as information is important, it should then be discerned to be reasonable or illogical.

I am all for it, I also prefer civilized convos

 

[holy]

This was me, btw. I still stand on what I said.