🙏 ATHEISTIC ARGUMENTS DEBUNKED 🙏

[noodlelover]

The double-slit experiment clearly shows that observation changes particle behavior, suggesting a direct link between consciousness and reality. MWI doesn’t explain why observation correlates with wavefunction collapse, it just sidesteps the question.

Observers have nothing to do with it. The wave function collapses when the light particle hits ANYTHING. It has nothing to do with consciousness or "observers".

I don't fault you for having the "observer effect" interpretation as that's the interpretation most popularly spread because people want to believe in these things. I believed it as well for many years before I stumbled upon the correct interpretation of the studies. Sadly, everything you believed, I once believed before I had time to uncover what was real.

If you can fully get you're head around the concept of memes (Mind viruses) that evolve to maximize their spread, you might get a better understanding of various religions, supernatural beliefs, and even why the magical fun sounding interpterion of the double slit experiment is much more popular than the true interpterion, that the wave function collapses when it hits anything.

Moreover, phenomena like the placebo effect,

This is because there's intelligence emergent from the collective of your cells and your cells can have goals and cooperate. Michael Levin has done a lot of work on this, showing that with the right signals an animals cells in it's back can be triggered to grow a working eye for example, or regrow limbs, etc.

In a placebo the brain is the system sending the electrical signals for the rest of the cells in the body to do something, but it's not magic.

OBEs, and NDEs, Past live memories

These are a combination of different things:

1. Outright Frauds. Some of these are frauds for attention.
2. Most of these experiences are guided imagination, where your subconscious fills in the gaps with what it knows about the past, your location, and other locations.

People lie, hallucinate, have false memories, and mis-interpret their sensory data based on their pre-existing beliefs. This has been the cause of religion, superstition, and "super" natural beliefs. Which is why we have scientific processes to demine what's really going on. Such as the AWARE studies on NDEs.

highlight that consciousness isn’t just a property of matter, it can influence and interact with the physical world in ways not yet fully understood. Ignoring these links while dismissing consciousness-based models as "woo-woo" is willful ignorance

Nobody claimed anything to be magical, you claimed consciousness is property of matter, If something is property of matter for example "Elasticity" is indeed property of matter it can observed, demonstrated and measured for it be a scientific fact, Consciousness on the other hand can only be observed affecting the reality but can't be explained, demonstrated or measured, consciousness involves subjective experiences, which is called "qualia" which cannot be measured or fully explained by the interaction of particles or atoms. These subjective experiences point to something more than just the physical brain, Which all points to the fact that consciousness isn't physical nor magical

Consciousness is an illusion of matter. We are the matter, and we ask ourselves what is this "I am experience" when it's just the matter and energy "Being" or "existing".

All religions possess both an esoteric and an exoteric dimension. The exoteric meaning, what’s openly taught to the masses serves to maintain societal order and provide moral guidance. In contrast, the esoteric meaning contains deeper, encoded knowledge conveyed through parables, stories, and metaphors. These layers of meaning allow profound spiritual truths, such as the concept of interconnected consciousness, to be accessible across different levels of understanding, ensuring even complex ideas can resonate with people of all ages and capacities.

Take John 14:20 as an example: "When I am raised to life again, you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you." At face value, this speaks of a relationship between Jesus, God, and humanity. However, when examined beyond its literal interpretation, it reveals the interconnectedness of all existence. It suggests a singular, unified consciousness what some may call the divine that permeates and connects every individual, transcending physical separations and distinctions. The fact that all religions esoterically point to this one idea of inter connected consciousness cannot be dismissed as coincidental

I agree with you that all consciousness is unified in a way. Consciousness is mater and energy existing, and all matter and energy is connected by gravitational pulls and sometimes other forces. Some clusters of matter are much more connected than others, so we refer to those as intelligent agents when they have learning.

No we didn't, That’s a false equivalency. Artificial intelligence doesn’t even possess consciousness it operates purely on algorithms

Just like the rest of reality.

and large language models (LLMs) that can be observed, measured, demonstrated, and predicted with precision.

I'm coining a new term "Consciousness of the Gaps". The "God of the Gaps" fallacy is the logical fallacy that god is whatever we don't yet fully understand about reality. So as science figure more and more things out, the imaginary god is shoved in to explain a smaller and smaller gap in what science doesn't yet understand.

The "Consciousness of the Gaps" fallacy is the same but for intelligence being explained by consciousness.

The fact that this profound knowledge of interconnected consciousness and the unity of all existence has been consistently echoed across various cultures and traditions, dating back to ancient Egypt, is a strong indicator of its significance.

I've read the Hermetica. It's an obvious conclusion that everything is connected, we see causality and physical forces connecting entities and things everywhere.

This universal wisdom—expressed through symbols, parables, and esoteric teachings suggests that humanity has always had access to a deeper understanding of reality. Yet, those in positions of power have historically invested immense resources, including billions of dollars, into reshaping this knowledge into the concept of an external, separate God. This deliberate shift is not coincidental but rather a calculated effort to distance individuals from the realization of their own divine nature and interconnectedness.

By projecting divinity outward, into an unattainable realm, these power structures create dependence and control, perpetuating systems of hierarchy and separation. Such efforts highlight a clear distinction: the suppression of internal, self-realized divinity aligns with agendas of control, while the preservation and rediscovery of esoteric truths align with liberation and enlightenment. The persistence of these teachings, despite attempts to obscure them, is itself a testament to their importance and resilience. The lengths to which this knowledge has been suppressed only reinforce its profound truth and transformative potential for humanity

The focus on carbon is directly relevant to the discussion about the basis of organic life. Carbon is the backbone of organic molecules, forming the complex structures that define living systems. The connection to 666 in Revelation 13:18 is symbolic, not literal chemistry, but it’s worth noting that carbon atoms have six protons, six neutrons, and six electrons whether you view this as coincidence or metaphor is up to interpretation and wouldn't matter.

Consciousness is not simply an emergent property of organic molecules like carbon, but carbon-based organic systems provide the framework for life as we understand it.

Carbon is the most abundant non-gas molecule in the measurable universe. Above that, we have Hydrogen, Helium, and Oxygen which are gasses.

So by pure probability, it makes sense that most life in the universe would evolve from carbon and other materials. Cells are primarily made of Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Nitrogen, and Phosphorus.

This doesn't mean we can't build life without carbon, or that it didn't evolve somewhere in the universe without carbon.

A carbon nanotube or plastic bottle containing carbon is fundamentally different from the dynamic, interconnected biochemical processes occurring in living organisms. These processes allow for the complexity of consciousness

What matter is doing effects the "experience" of "consciousness". I put experience in quotes, because it's a word to describe matter doing what it's doing, but we have the illusion that we are some how special and different from say a hurricane. A hurricane is doing something different than our brains and bodies, but we have no valid reason to believe it is less conscious.

not because carbon is conscious on its own, but because it is essential in creating the molecular environment for life to arise. Consciousness transcends being just another 'organic makeup'; it is the phenomenon that emerges uniquely from the interplay of these carbon-based structures.

Nothing "magically" happens in the universe, Nobody claimed anything to be magical, everything is a byproduct of an unfolding event in an eternal present

Right, there's no intelligence or decisions being made without a clockwork mechanism.

 

[IOS]

i read it

hes banned ig now

 

[Gmogger]

Observers have nothing to do with it. The wave function collapses when the light particle hits ANYTHING. It has nothing to do with consciousness or "observers".

I don't fault you for having the "observer effect" interpretation as that's the interpretation most popularly spread because people want to believe in these things. I believed it as well for many years before I stumbled upon the correct interpretation of the studies. Sadly, everything you believed, I once believed before I had time to uncover what was real.

If you can fully get you're head around the concept of memes (Mind viruses) that evolve to maximize their spread, you might get a better understanding of various religions, supernatural beliefs, and even why the magical fun sounding interpterion of the double slit experiment is much more popular than the true interpterion, that the wave function collapses when it hits anything.






This is because there's intelligence emergent from the collective of your cells and your cells can have goals and cooperate. Michael Levin has done a lot of work on this, showing that with the right signals an animals cells in it's back can be triggered to grow a working eye for example, or regrow limbs, etc.

In a placebo the brain is the system sending the electrical signals for the rest of the cells in the body to do something, but it's not magic.


These are a combination of different things:

1. Outright Frauds. Some of these are frauds for attention.
2. Most of these experiences are guided imagination, where your subconscious fills in the gaps with what it knows about the past, your location, and other locations.

People lie, hallucinate, have false memories, and mis-interpret their sensory data based on their pre-existing beliefs. This has been the cause of religion, superstition, and "super" natural beliefs. Which is why we have scientific processes to demine what's really going on. Such as the AWARE studies on NDEs.


Consciousness is an illusion of matter. We are the matter, and we ask ourselves what is this "I am experience" when it's just the matter and energy "Being" or "existing".

I agree with you that all consciousness is unified in a way. Consciousness is mater and energy existing, and all matter and energy is connected by gravitational pulls and sometimes other forces. Some clusters of matter are much more connected than others, so we refer to those as intelligent agents when they have learning.


Just like the rest of reality.

I'm coining a new term "Consciousness of the Gaps". The "God of the Gaps" fallacy is the logical fallacy that god is whatever we don't yet fully understand about reality. So as science figure more and more things out, the imaginary god is shoved in to explain a smaller and smaller gap in what science doesn't yet understand.

The "Consciousness of the Gaps" fallacy is the same but for intelligence being explained by consciousness.

I've read the Hermetica. It's an obvious conclusion that everything is connected, we see causality and physical forces connecting entities and things everywhere.


Carbon is the most abundant non-gas molecule in the measurable universe. Above that, we have Hydrogen, Helium, and Oxygen which are gasses.

So by pure probability, it makes sense that most life in the universe would evolve from carbon and other materials. Cells are primarily made of Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Nitrogen, and Phosphorus.

This doesn't mean we can't build life without carbon, or that it didn't evolve somewhere in the universe without carbon.


What matter is doing effects the "experience" of "consciousness". I put experience in quotes, because it's a word to describe matter doing what it's doing, but we have the illusion that we are some how special and different from say a hurricane. A hurricane is doing something different than our brains and bodies, but we have no valid reason to believe it is less conscious.


Right, there's no intelligence or decisions being made without a clockwork mechanism.

hmm a new perspective, definitely something I need to look into more

 

[King Solomon]

The best arguments for GOD ranked


G Tier: God Tier status (God is inevitable and there is no more debate as this is undeniable proof of the existence of GOD and no holes in this argument exist).

S Tier (Nearly a slam dunk or mic drop arguments as at least one element that doesn't disprove it but brings up more questions than answers)

A Tier ( convincing for a vast majority of people but not the hardcore anti-theists but has a couple slight gaps in the armor)

B Tier ( Compelling for over 50% of the population but has multiple major glaring holes holes)

C Tier (Convincing for few people but has some interesting aspects to make one think).

D Tier (Straight up only convincing retards or black people but nobody else (jk jk).

F Tier (convincing to not a single soul)


G Tier:
1.) Information Theory and The Computational Problem:

a.) The DNA structure which contain bases or nucleotide bases on inside of double helix r functioning like alphabetic characters like in a written language or like 0's and 0's in a software code. It's not the physical or chemical properties of those bases, rather it's their sequential arrangement in accord with an independent code which is why we now call it a genetic code. A code requires a coder and our DNA code requires a creator of some kind. This is a true information baring system that is expressing information as it happens for building the proteins and protein machines that cells require to stay alive. You have information directing the construction of proteins and protein machines necessary for survivability. The question is where does that information come from and what kind of information is it. This is functional information and that's the information that in our experience always indicates the prior activity of intelligence. If the information is very specific and complex and operating in accord with a symbol convention then you have information that's the product of mind.

b.) Could there have been such a strand of DNA that comes about by pure random chance just pure accident that these things arise given enough times and eventually you'll end up with an evolution combined with natural selection it preserves mutations that are good and you come up with something that's designed. This fails to work because of a mathematical problem or mathematical inflation. Qe know from our experience with software code writing that the last thing you qant in a section of functional code is a series of random changes to those 0s and 1s. If that happens you'll degrade the information that's in that code, long before you'll ever generate a new software program or op system. There's a reason that changes software at random variably degrades the information before you get anything useful and new because there's so many more qays for things to go wrong to where an infinite amount of randomly changing things is going to inevitably end up as gibberish for a sequence than a functional one. To quantify this, the quantitively odds of how rare or common are the functional sequences that would make a new protein or new gene making a new protein, how rare are the functional ones compared to the none functional ones. for a short protein of 150 amino acids long, the ratio of functional to non functional sequences is about 1 to the 10 to the 77th power. There are only 10 to the 65th atoms in the Milkyway galaxy. This means that a random search for a new functional sequence is going to be like looking for one atom among 1 trillion galaxes of the size of the Milkyway. Even four billion years of history is insufficient time to solve the search problem of that magnitude. It's overwhelmingly more probable that such a search will fail then succeed in the known time of life on planet earth. This means the hypothesis that the mechanism that's producing the neq information is more likely to be false than true.

So overall it's exponentially more likely that the code behind everything in existence is more likely to be generated by intelligent design than by random chance. If you have alphabet cereal that's on the table and says John please take the trash out this morning and do not forget this time. It's much more likely that this qas a human that hand picked this sequence instead of it just being spilled accidently onto the table creating this perfect sequence by pure chance. If you see that you're going to take out the damn trash than to ignore it because you think it's just purely random chance those letters were sequenced in that way.

You would have to be incredibly biased against intelligent design behind functional information or have gone through a traumatic or emotional event to completely deny the obvious mathematical odds being insurmountable against random chance for functional information.

2.) Fulfillment of prophecy (specifically the Christian bible). Just 8 of the biblical prophecies coming to fruition is 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000. He fulfilled roughly 400 biblical prophecies from the old testament. Over 2,000 biblical prophecies have come to fruition including thousands of prophecies after the death of Jesus and still more are occurring to this very day. The probability of all these prophecies being fulfilled isn't even mathematically quantifiable at this point so it's just an impossibility. No human, group of humans, or AI could've done something like this and therefore it must come from intelligent design. You have better odds of being struck by lightening than Jesus did in fulfilling just one of these prophecies. You had better odds of even just existing than all the prophecies of Jesus being fulfilled. No other religion, person (past or present), AI system, etc is even close to their/it's prophecies being fulfilled at this level.



S Tier:
1.) Contingency argument: Contingent = something exists or doesn't. Most things that exist in life are contingent: (Tree, car, moon, kittens, humans, etc) in that they didn't need to exist. Contingent things are contingent on some other thing (seed, humans, space, male and female cat/humans mating). Lastly, a group of contingent things is itself always contingent and dependent on something (Humans (parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc, sun, earth, etc. If you take the group of all contingent things that must depend on the existence of something. But is this something contingent? No, because then it would be part of the group of all contingent things. Therefore this something must be non-contingent or necessary and necessary thing cannot fail to exist and must exist. All space, time and matter seem contingent so there must be some necessary existing spaceless, timeless and immaterial entity upon which all contingent reality depends. This sounds suspiciously like GOD.

2.) Fine Tuning Argument: This is a teleological argument as it establishes God's existence through an observation of the world around us. The various constants of the initial conditions of the universe, various constants of the universe, laws of physics they have certain parameters existing where they must be within an extremely narrow range like 10 to the power of 44. So many of these things must exist in a very narrow range to support the existence embodied concours creatures. For example the cosmological constant, if you increase it ever so slightly the universe collapses in on itself, if you decrease the size ever so slightly then things expand qay to far apart then atoms couldn't even form and then no life exists in those instances. So in all these constants if there's just a slight movement in one direction or the other then life ceases to exist as we know it. Essentially the Universe appears as though it was designed for life to exist. To make this more profound I'll provide a feq more examples. Say there qas a hypothetical scenarios where dimes covered every square inch of north America so no space exists between any dime. Then say they stacked those dimes to the moon. Now increase that amount a billion times. If I were to blindfold you and to tell you to guess where the one red dime is inside this stack your probability of locating this dime is one in 10 to the 37th Power chance. This is the same level of precision required for the strong nuclear force and rate of universe expansion and if you're just a dime in either direction then we don't get a universe that doesn't support life. It's like if you were to see someone at the poker table qin 10 hands in a row with all royal flushes every time, you'd say the game is rigged. It's highly unlikely for all these extremely improbable constants can exists simultaneously without a divine creator.

Some examples

A Tier:

1.) The legitimacy of the Gospels:

So Jesus has been historically verified by many credible outside the bible as have the apostles. This is just setting up grounds for the foundation because people require external biblical proofs to at least see these people existed. So, we know they existed but did Jesus get tortured, crucified, died and resurrect as the gospels proclaim.

a.) The Shroud of Turin is undeniable evidence of the birth, torture, crucifixion, death and resurrection. No other person was crucified in this manner, the Shroud has been dated to 2,000 years ago, all the marks and things on this shroud align with the biblical accounts perfectly and no human, or machine can create this image today or in the past.

b.) Logic: The apostles didn't even know Jesus was going to resurrect nor did they believe him and they even denied him and distanced themselves from him during his crucifixion to avoid being punished in similar fashion. However, after they seed the Shroud and seen him in person they then gave up their family, friends, lives, wealth, resources, and eventually murdered for preaching the gospel. They gained no earthly rewards for their testimony, no power, status (perhaps later in time after death), fortune, sex, resources, etc). All they received as an earthly reward was a gruesome death. Why on earth would 12 men risk their lives for a lie after they had previously denied this man and distance themselves from him during the crucifixion but after the crucifixion they deviated their entire lives and got rid of everything else just to preach the gospel long after the death of Jesus. That makes 0 logical sense especially if they received no earthly reward. The other so called religions are not under duress and the people creating them are giving human accounts of the biblical truths and create myths and legends or pure plagiarism of some aspects mixed with pagan worship like Islam and or Judaism.

2.) Math:

Science is able to tell us about the natural qorld but science by definition sciences can't tell us qhetere there's anything outside the natural qorld or supernatural. GOD = supernatural all knoqing mind qho is everyqhere and can do everything. Math is about numbers and information about those numbers and qays numbers ocnnect to each other. Qhere to qe find this math? Math is in the mind, and find it by thinking about it and figuring more and more things out. Math explains everything from simple counting to the movement of planets. For anything you can think of, math can explain what's going on even down to the atomic language. So mathi is in our minds and explains the natural world then where does it come from.

a.) Math is something qe invented to explain what we observe in the Natural world and that means the origin of math is natural.

b.) Math is already there because it controls the universe and we discovered it. If that's true then the origin of math is supernatural.


Option (b) is correct, math contains infinite information. There's an infinite number of numbers each containing their own properties and an infinite number of numbers between numbers. Qe also just keep discovering things, like PI which is the # that explains the area of a circle, has an infinite number of digits that qe keep discovering by doing calculations. If we were just making this stuff up then we can make PI out to be whatever number we qant to be. Qe can't do this because it's not true. Qe know all this information is out there somewhere. It can't be in our physical reality because it's finite and math is infinite which means math contains every possible combination of numbers. If we use numbers as code for letters then math contains every possible combination of letters as well. That means every book that has ever been written already exists encoded in math somewhere. In fact every book that could be written already exists in math. If we use numbers as code for particles and their locations then you can say there's an exact copy of our universe encoded in math. That's why math can't be contained in our physical reality.

Math only exists in the mind, so it's origin must also be in mind. Math contains infinite info so the mind must be all knowing. Math controls the universe so this mind must be all powerful. Math is beyond and outside our natural world so this mind must be supernatural and this describes GOD. All these numbers and mathematical facts exists in the infinite mind of GOD. It's not just mathematical truth that exists in the mind of GOD but also moral truth, and all other truth. Goodness, truth and beauty are just mere opinions of the human mind unless there's a supreme mind aka GOD that rules over all human opinions. Because math is beyond time, space and limits, the existence of math proves the existence of GOD because math is in the mind of GOD.

Math is the language with which God has written the universe or the very fabric of our existence has math behind it. Frequency and vibration is the glue that holds this material world together and this is why GOD spoke this reality into existence because speech itself is a frequence/vibration. This could be another proof in itself. If you've ever looked up the studies on water molecules and how their structures changes just from words you'll be amazed. Saying things like Jesus, beautiful, happy, love, heal, kindness, etc make these beautiful structures in the water molecules but words like evil, devil, hate, kill, murder, injure, harm, depressed, sad, etc create these horrific and chaotic looking structures in the water molecules.

C.) Based on actual eye witness accounts that line up with non biblical historical documents. There are no eye witnesses for any of the other so called religions.

D.) Gospels written immediately after the death of Jesus not decades or hundreds of years later. The misconception that these were written too long after the death of Jesus is false. The true OG apostles of Jesus created their sermons or writings immediately after Jesus' death and preached this same gospel frequently for decades. Then once the Apostles started to be attacked then they started to make these sermon's/accounts/testimony's and transcribed them into books to join together to preserve their teachings before they were to be murdered. Paulus/Saulus is the only one real life eye witness and only one to write his books decades later because he's a false apostle, false prophet, Edomite/Canaanite, Royal Herodian, Roman Citizen, Christian killer, liar, etc.

So the combination of the logical reasoning for the eye witnesses of Jesus, the anthropological artifacts discovered prove these testimonies, the non biblical historical references confirm the existence of these biblical people, and lastly the timing of the writings of the Gospel by the apostles makes this a very creditable overall argument for the existence of a Christian GOD.


B Tier:

1.) Existence of a Soul: I believe there are sufficient arguments to undeniably see there's a creator. BUT, some atheist puppets are taking the new age approach against theism by saying it's simply a simulation like the matrix. The one major thing that debunks this the existence of a soul.

a.) Energy isn't created or destroyed it's simply transferred. So you don't just go into the dirt and merge with your creator in nothing you go into the dirt and your consciousness is transferred to your soul or astral body which enters an alternate dimension aka heaven or hell or one can be on earth while in this soul body but not send by the naked eye.

b.) Millions of people have testimonies of heaven, hell, and Jesus while in their soul body which they claim to be more real than our physical body meaning the eternal dimensions of heaven or hell is the base existence as is your soul and this physical material world and your body is only temporary as it's designed obsolescence.

c.) The thousands of years of masters, witchcraft, etc all practicing astral projections. The Gateway experience created by the CIA which took these lessons from these various masters and created their own program to set people on the fast tract to basically harness super power like capabilities and to spy on others via astral travel.

 

[metacognitivist]

also your arguments resmeble chat gpt = giga low sentience trait

im glad im not the only one that noticed this, everything he said sounded like it was gpt written and edited by him to sound more human

 

[>_<.]

High IQ, serious, will rep

 

[NickGar]

Niggas really be spewing out their entire vocabulary comprised of complex linguistical terms on a curry forum about mewing

 

[mug]

Amen

I believe in God

 

[buddy]

Take it to a publisher nigger, all of this christcuck cope threw my day off

 

[varoo]

Take it to a publisher nigger, all of this christcuck cope threw my day off

christ deniers always gotta be the biggest haters.
if the Christian gospel is not true, we are screwed. there is no other hope in life (objectivley lets all kill ourselves, if you REALLY sit down and think about it) if another religion is true we gotta work for our salvation which is like walking up and infinite staircase as finite beings. if you listen to Jesus teachings and the writings of the bible it speaks to the soul like nothing else. like all things it takes faith. but i dont got the time to debate all up and down.
Id just be more mature in the way you speak bro