Blind Optimism. How To Misunderstand The Blackpill Completely (Tearing Apart Bluepiller/Redpiller Thread. @LiL 369)

[InanimatePragmatist]

Here is the original post. https://looksmax.org/threads/how-can-you-even-be-blackpilled.1505336/#post-21566703. Here are the Users within it. One blackpilled, one bluepilled. @LiL 369 @disillusioned

Part One: Easily influenced kids and the blind following a narrative.

This might be one of the most perfectly naive misinterpretations of the blackpill I've read yet, so let me dismantle your comfortable illusions point by point. You mock blackpillers as impressionable kids, yet ironically fail to see your own naivety. You think blackpill believers are puppets? No, they are simply those who’ve removed the blindfold. What you perceive as weakness is merely clarity. Teenage boys are noticing early now and what you still refuse to accept. That genetic determinism is fundamentally correct, and optimism is a poor replacement for evidence. Calling truth “well written sentences” doesn't invalidate it. Reality isn't about age, it’s about accuracy. Your attempt to discredit via condescension is just lazy arrogance.

​

Part Two: Cherry Picking Evidence.

You complain that blackpillers cherry pick extremes. The ugly and the beautiful and pretend this disproves blackpill truths. In reality, it illustrates exactly the fundamental principle of sexual selection. Biological inequality. The extremes are not exceptions, they're evidence of a bell curve that does not treat men fairly. Nature itself is a harsh selection process. Your "fairness" never existed, and claiming otherwise is pure delusion. Blackpill doesn’t promise doom for every average man but it reveals the sobering reality that the "average" man is neither desirable nor prioritized. This isn’t pessimism, it’s biological realism backed by countless studies you conveniently ignore.

Part Three: Muh hollow cheeks, muh sharp eyes, etc etc.

You laugh at the precise measurements of attractiveness as “soy,” yet betray your own ignorance of biology. Women subconsciously assess genetic health markers such as orbital tilt, facial width, cheekbones, symmetry which has been proven scientifically countless times. "Overall facial harmony" is exactly that. A combination of precise biological signals of health, genetic fitness, and testosterone. Your mockery of these traits reveals not wisdom, but ignorance of how evolution shaped human attraction. Facial analysis isn't some shallow male invention, it's innate biology operating beneath conscious awareness. Your dismissal doesn't disprove science, it only proves you misunderstand it.

Part Four: Gymmaxing.

You claim gym physiques don’t guarantee female attention. Congratulations, you've found a half truth but you again miss the point. Gymmaxxing alone isn’t salvation. No informed blackpiller claims this. The physique is supplementary. Face and height are primary, muscles alone never overcome subpar genetic traits. you mischaracterize gymmaxxing as a blackpill staple, when in reality it’s just a secondary coping mechanism. Even blackpill theory clearly states: face > height > body. You either deliberately misunderstand this hierarchy, or you argue against a straw man to pretend you’ve won.

Yet I shall concede to one agreement here. A lot of men here do go over the top for a stronger body. Even though it will never do much for them at all. There is only so much you can do in the end. Most of the times, it is too little, too late.

Part Five: Real life vs the blackpill.

You say you’ve observed couples who are average, or even below average. Yet you’ve spotted the exception that proves the rule. Most pairings are assortative, people match within similar attractiveness and value ranges. Blackpill never denied assortative mating but what it emphasizes and what you conveniently ignore, is that the lower-status male rarely finds genuine desire from attractive women. He finds tolerance, practicality, or necessity yet no real passion. Your “regular couples” aren't proof against blackpill, they're proof of it. Yes, sub-average men marry and reproduce. If you examine their relationships closely, nearly it is always conditional, transactional, or merely stable conveniences. Desire? Passion? Rarely found. Stability isn’t love. it’s practicality.

Even your point about how so many are together, that we should just look outside. I can say the same thing back. Do you know them? Do you know how it is deep down in their bedroom? You know normies are great at masking and pretending that all is good yes? You are just ignoring all sides of the rotten reality.

Part Six: Hypergamy and shallowness.

You mock the idea of hypergamy and female selectivity. Do you deny female nature itself? Hypergamy is documented extensively across anthropology, evolutionary biology, and sociology. Women choose upwards, financially, genetically, socially. Exceptions exist but exceptions do not erase biological imperatives. You claim women aren’t shallow because average people pair together. Again, this doesn’t disprove hypergamy, it confirms assortative mating. They chose what they could realistically attract. Women don't settle down. they settle for.

Part Seven: Finale. Just go outside JFL.

Your conclusion tries to shame realism as being out of touch. Yet reality itself disproves you daily. Society and dating apps are not separate realities, they reflect human nature at scale. The algorithm isn't lying. It’s showcasing evolutionary preference without politeness or mask. Your refusal to acknowledge this is intellectual cowardice masquerading as optimism. Your entire critique isn’t wisdom, it's naive escapism. Your rejection of blackpill truths is born from discomfort, not evidence. You offered nothing but poorly constructed half-truths and emotional coping. The blackpill isn’t pessimistic, it’s honest. You haven’t disproven the blackpill. You've merely proven your inability to face it. Enjoy your humanimal fantasies. Reality waits patiently.

 

[InanimatePragmatist]

If you wish to disprove me. Expect replies around 8 to 10 pm. I should be able to write around then.

 

[Jonasㅤㅤ]

Communication is all about delivering a message in differing forms.

With that many words no one will reply, thus making your efforts to communicate go to waste.

I like to call that pseudo-intellectual behavior.

@Eltrē

 

[Eltrē]

Communication is all about delivering a message in differing forms.

With that many words no one will reply, thus making your efforts to communicate go to waste.

I like to call that pseudo-intellectual behavior.

@Eltrē

I mean OP's points are correct, but you're also right that the people this thread was directed at will not read it since it's too long and too hard to read for them.

 

[Jonasㅤㅤ]

I mean OP's points are correct, but you're also right that the people this thread was directed at will not read it since it's too long and too hard to read for them.

The first part actually reads quite nicely and I agree. He just needs to swallow the transhumanism pill.

 

[LiL 369]

Here is the original post. https://looksmax.org/threads/how-can-you-even-be-blackpilled.1505336/#post-21566703. Here are the Users within it. One blackpilled, one bluepilled. @LiL 369 @disillusioned

Part One: Easily influenced kids and the blind following a narrative.

This might be one of the most perfectly naive misinterpretations of the blackpill I've read yet, so let me dismantle your comfortable illusions point by point. You mock blackpillers as impressionable kids, yet ironically fail to see your own naivety. You think blackpill believers are puppets? No, they are simply those who’ve removed the blindfold. What you perceive as weakness is merely clarity. Teenage boys are noticing early now and what you still refuse to accept. That genetic determinism is fundamentally correct, and optimism is a poor replacement for evidence. Calling truth “well written sentences” doesn't invalidate it. Reality isn't about age, it’s about accuracy. Your attempt to discredit via condescension is just lazy arrogance.

​

Part Two: Cherry Picking Evidence.

You complain that blackpillers cherry pick extremes. The ugly and the beautiful and pretend this disproves blackpill truths. In reality, it illustrates exactly the fundamental principle of sexual selection. Biological inequality. The extremes are not exceptions, they're evidence of a bell curve that does not treat men fairly. Nature itself is a harsh selection process. Your "fairness" never existed, and claiming otherwise is pure delusion. Blackpill doesn’t promise doom for every average man but it reveals the sobering reality that the "average" man is neither desirable nor prioritized. This isn’t pessimism, it’s biological realism backed by countless studies you conveniently ignore.

Part Three: Muh hollow cheeks, muh sharp eyes, etc etc.

You laugh at the precise measurements of attractiveness as “soy,” yet betray your own ignorance of biology. Women subconsciously assess genetic health markers such as orbital tilt, facial width, cheekbones, symmetry which has been proven scientifically countless times. "Overall facial harmony" is exactly that. A combination of precise biological signals of health, genetic fitness, and testosterone. Your mockery of these traits reveals not wisdom, but ignorance of how evolution shaped human attraction. Facial analysis isn't some shallow male invention, it's innate biology operating beneath conscious awareness. Your dismissal doesn't disprove science, it only proves you misunderstand it.

Part Four: Gymmaxing.

You claim gym physiques don’t guarantee female attention. Congratulations, you've found a half truth but you again miss the point. Gymmaxxing alone isn’t salvation. No informed blackpiller claims this. The physique is supplementary. Face and height are primary, muscles alone never overcome subpar genetic traits. you mischaracterize gymmaxxing as a blackpill staple, when in reality it’s just a secondary coping mechanism. Even blackpill theory clearly states: face > height > body. You either deliberately misunderstand this hierarchy, or you argue against a straw man to pretend you’ve won.

Yet I shall concede to one agreement here. A lot of men here do go over the top for a stronger body. Even though it will never do much for them at all. There is only so much you can do in the end. Most of the times, it is too little, too late.

Part Five: Real life vs the blackpill.

You say you’ve observed couples who are average, or even below average. Yet you’ve spotted the exception that proves the rule. Most pairings are assortative, people match within similar attractiveness and value ranges. Blackpill never denied assortative mating but what it emphasizes and what you conveniently ignore, is that the lower-status male rarely finds genuine desire from attractive women. He finds tolerance, practicality, or necessity yet no real passion. Your “regular couples” aren't proof against blackpill, they're proof of it. Yes, sub-average men marry and reproduce. If you examine their relationships closely, nearly it is always conditional, transactional, or merely stable conveniences. Desire? Passion? Rarely found. Stability isn’t love. it’s practicality.

Even your point about how so many are together, that we should just look outside. I can say the same thing back. Do you know them? Do you know how it is deep down in their bedroom? You know normies are great at masking and pretending that all is good yes? You are just ignoring all sides of the rotten reality.

Part Six: Hypergamy and shallowness.

You mock the idea of hypergamy and female selectivity. Do you deny female nature itself? Hypergamy is documented extensively across anthropology, evolutionary biology, and sociology. Women choose upwards, financially, genetically, socially. Exceptions exist but exceptions do not erase biological imperatives. You claim women aren’t shallow because average people pair together. Again, this doesn’t disprove hypergamy, it confirms assortative mating. They chose what they could realistically attract. Women don't settle down. they settle for.

Part Seven: Finale. Just go outside JFL.

Your conclusion tries to shame realism as being out of touch. Yet reality itself disproves you daily. Society and dating apps are not separate realities, they reflect human nature at scale. The algorithm isn't lying. It’s showcasing evolutionary preference without politeness or mask. Your refusal to acknowledge this is intellectual cowardice masquerading as optimism. Your entire critique isn’t wisdom, it's naive escapism. Your rejection of blackpill truths is born from discomfort, not evidence. You offered nothing but poorly constructed half-truths and emotional coping. The blackpill isn’t pessimistic, it’s honest. You haven’t disproven the blackpill. You've merely proven your inability to face it. Enjoy your humanimal fantasies. Reality waits patiently.

Most of your post is a actually the perfect example of what happens when someone memorizes the blackpill gospel but forgets to think for himself.

Let me just start by saying most of what you wrote I've seen this being said 10000x by rehab room or what else...

1 - Blackpillers on this forum didnt remove any blindfold XDXD let’s be real... They just saw a couple of edited videos on tiktok or youtube of Chico or Opry mogging some below average dude in public and getting female attention. That’s it. That’s the entire foundation of their and your so called "awakening". They watched a few cherry-picked clips, correlated them with blackpill talking points, and suddenly decided, “Yup, I’m blackpilled now.” They didnt reach this conclusion through any deep thinking, critical observation, or life experience. They were just impressionable and easily influenced.

2 - Brah Cherry picking is still cherry picking... What do you want me to tell you? Yes, sexual selection exists. Yes, humans are judged on looks, but using only extremes to represent every interaction is retarded. It doesn’t reflect real life, where most people are just average and have normal experiences. Using the most attractive and least attractive people to "prove" a point isnt accurate... It creates an obvious false reality where being average is also seen as failure, and In every corner of this forum you see average people...

3 - Again... Yes, women subconsciously pick up on of health indicatores and masculinity but im quite sure real life isnt a lab experiment... So yeah bro just have hunter eyes and cheekbones, and BOOM you are a PSL god!!! Every woman will wet themselfs just looking at those hunter eyes!!



5/6 - "Yet you’ve spotted the exception that proves the rule"

Ahm... No I never said that

"If you examine their relationships closely, nearly it is always conditional, transactional, or merely stable conveniences. Desire? Passion? Rarely found."

Yeah bro I watch rehab rooms videos too... The oofy doofy theory... Again surely it might happen or it might not happen... This happens every time, everywhere, where there's a clearly attractive girl dating someone below average the instant thought of a men watching this couple is "Yeah he must b rich" or something like that... The jealousy instantly talks in their ears...

I have the same example of this happening irl, Best looking girl at my gym, since I started working in here, everybody, but I mean E V E R Y B O D Y, telling me that her clearly below average bf (He's tall tho) only has her cause he is rich... Talked to her for sometime and the reality is he aint rich at all... He is a fucking taxi driver, and they are together for years, they started dating when she was giga fat, now she is pretty much the stacy of that gym and she still chooses to be with him, even without kids involved...

This doesnt make the rule ofc, but this to say relationships are way more than just looks or money as the blackpill trys to paint...

All the couples on this video are also oofy doofy right? All the below average looking men are oofy doofys... Damn... then what is even the point of being on this looksmaxxing forum? We should be fucking moneymaxxing, working that juicy 9 to 5 and opening and lubing our assholes for her...
https://www.mgtow.tv/watch/wraw4-th...low-blackpill-tfl-doomer_rgYD6tZozGLFqPe.html


7 - I already said this multiple times, Tinder and dating apps are only good for the perception of looks level you have for the average women, an indicator of your attractiveness... The algorithm like in every other app is optimized to trigger impulsive behavior and maximize screen time. Thats why you rarely see people seriously looking for ltrs on tinder, in fact tinder is most of the time the last resort people use to look for a relationship, because its mostly superficial swiping and instant gratification.


Sure there are truths on the blackpill but it clearly isnt an universal truth...

 

[InanimatePragmatist]

Most of your post is a actually the perfect example of what happens when someone memorizes the blackpill gospel but forgets to think for himself.

Let me just start by saying most of what you wrote I've seen this being said 10000x by rehab room or what else...

1 - Blackpillers on this forum didnt remove any blindfold XDXD let’s be real... They just saw a couple of edited videos on tiktok or youtube of Chico or Opry mogging some below average dude in public and getting female attention. That’s it. That’s the entire foundation of their and your so called "awakening". They watched a few cherry-picked clips, correlated them with blackpill talking points, and suddenly decided, “Yup, I’m blackpilled now.” They didnt reach this conclusion through any deep thinking, critical observation, or life experience. They were just impressionable and easily influenced.

2 - Brah Cherry picking is still cherry picking... What do you want me to tell you? Yes, sexual selection exists. Yes, humans are judged on looks, but using only extremes to represent every interaction is retarded. It doesn’t reflect real life, where most people are just average and have normal experiences. Using the most attractive and least attractive people to "prove" a point isnt accurate... It creates an obvious false reality where being average is also seen as failure, and In every corner of this forum you see average people...

3 - Again... Yes, women subconsciously pick up on of health indicatores and masculinity but im quite sure real life isnt a lab experiment... So yeah bro just have hunter eyes and cheekbones, and BOOM you are a PSL god!!! Every woman will wet themselfs just looking at those hunter eyes!!



5/6 - "Yet you’ve spotted the exception that proves the rule"

Ahm... No I never said that

"If you examine their relationships closely, nearly it is always conditional, transactional, or merely stable conveniences. Desire? Passion? Rarely found."

Yeah bro I watch rehab rooms videos too... The oofy doofy theory... Again surely it might happen or it might not happen... This happens every time, everywhere, where there's a clearly attractive girl dating someone below average the instant thought of a men watching this couple is "Yeah he must b rich" or something like that... The jealousy instantly talks in their ears...

I have the same example of this happening irl, Best looking girl at my gym, since I started working in here, everybody, but I mean E V E R Y B O D Y, telling me that her clearly below average bf (He's tall tho) only has her cause he is rich... Talked to her for sometime and the reality is he aint rich at all... He is a fucking taxi driver, and they are together for years, they started dating when she was giga fat, now she is pretty much the stacy of that gym and she still chooses to be with him, even without kids involved...

This doesnt make the rule ofc, but this to say relationships are way more than just looks or money as the blackpill trys to paint...

All the couples on this video are also oofy doofy right? All the below average looking men are oofy doofys... Damn... then what is even the point of being on this looksmaxxing forum? We should be fucking moneymaxxing, working that juicy 9 to 5 and opening and lubing our assholes for her...
https://www.mgtow.tv/watch/wraw4-th...low-blackpill-tfl-doomer_rgYD6tZozGLFqPe.html


7 - I already said this multiple times, Tinder and dating apps are only good for the perception of looks level you have for the average women, an indicator of your attractiveness... The algorithm like in every other app is optimized to trigger impulsive behavior and maximize screen time. Thats why you rarely see people seriously looking for ltrs on tinder, in fact tinder is most of the time the last resort people use to look for a relationship, because its mostly superficial swiping and instant gratification.


Sure there are truths on the blackpill but it clearly isnt an universal truth...

Well said. In the end. We will see where we end up. Farewell.

 

[GodDeityEyeBro]

Ultimately people want to have the most optimistic life they can. I think it's in our nature actually to want to live in mindless bliss, to believe that life is fair and that everything is not determined by predetermined outcomes. Ofc, I myself do believe it is mostly environmental (where you live) and genetics that determine your own quality of life so I may be a bit subjective.

I will say to @LiL 369 's credit, that it is true that many people on this forum do have delusional standards on what is required to date and enter LTRs in a healthy manner (must be prime 6'8 Chico to get into LTR jfl ). It is something that the vast majority of people here will not have to really worry about too much about it especially in the land of subhumans, America.

That being said, I will not be lying if I said that most relationships I've seen in my times in America (and perhaps in the future as well) are clearly failing in some sort of way or the other. Like in @InanimatePragmatist 's example of conditionality and how the man is often relegated as a sort of "paypig" or "ATM", while it is not always exactly like that, elements of it are very present whenever I go interact with old and new couples in a relationship. Ofc, there is an element of emotional bonding and perhaps genuine "love/interest" that indeed happens, but it is tied to things like financial security as well as the fact that as most people are average, they will just intend subconciously go for the average as they know their true worth. You did talk about how a legit best looking girl is staying with her tall bf (which here can be seen as another if we're being honest, do you think a guy who was short is going to get this chance) but you did add the crucial fact that she was fat before. I think any reasonable person (prob not on this forum) would say that ofc a girl who was fat before but suddenly became toned and looked a lot better will like the tall guy who stayed along to help her. Ofc emotional bonding and this sort of desire is a thing, but the very fact that she was gigafat and her bf was tall (also ltn but heightpill is a thing) shows that even when women are at the lowest level they could be without being deformed, they can still get partners with 1 attractive quality. For men, there is no such case that doesn't apply to women. For the average man, being short is going to knock your SMV down by a lot, being fat is going to make it nonexistent, and no hate to my indian brothers, but that too is like 2 strikes out automatically. Maybe, you'll just say that this is the way it is and that men always have to prove themselves, and sure, but this extent isn't something that one could just gloss over and say it isn't a huge deal. Ofc, as you get older and if you slave away at a job, even a sub5 can get into a relationship, as women do fear being alone and will eventually wish to enter one, but ultimately, I wouldn't really call that a success.

Overall though, I think it really depends on what your standards of a "success" are. If we're talking about getting laid and fucking as many women as you want, not looking at the looks scaling of those women, you could always dumpsterdive and get a girl who may genuinely want you (ofc would you like them would be the other story and from your anectdote, they may even reject you as a sub 5 if they are getting options even at this stage, turning what was easy into moderate difficulty). I think many of was simply want to have a genuine relationship with a girl that is decently attractive (not giga model tier but maybe at our own level, though many ofc want the best of the best let's not lie to ourselves). This is achievable ofc, but as people do want the raw physical attraction part as well, I can see many taking the because it really is just the simple fact that most guys do not get that. You have to look pretty damn attractive to get that with girls you like if your average (discounting Social Circle Pill ofc which I do think plays a role).

 

[InanimatePragmatist]

Ultimately people want to have the most optimistic life they can. I think it's in our nature actually to want to live in mindless bliss, to believe that life is fair and that everything is not determined by predetermined outcomes. Ofc, I myself do believe it is mostly environmental (where you live) and genetics that determine your own quality of life so I may be a bit subjective.

I will say to @LiL 369 's credit, that it is true that many people on this forum do have delusional standards on what is required to date and enter LTRs in a healthy manner (must be prime 6'8 Chico to get into LTR jfl ). It is something that the vast majority of people here will not have to really worry about too much about it especially in the land of subhumans, America.

That being said, I will not be lying if I said that most relationships I've seen in my times in America (and perhaps in the future as well) are clearly failing in some sort of way or the other. Like in @InanimatePragmatist 's example of conditionality and how the man is often relegated as a sort of "paypig" or "ATM", while it is not always exactly like that, elements of it are very present whenever I go interact with old and new couples in a relationship. Ofc, there is an element of emotional bonding and perhaps genuine "love/interest" that indeed happens, but it is tied to things like financial security as well as the fact that as most people are average, they will just intend subconciously go for the average as they know their true worth. You did talk about how a legit best looking girl is staying with her tall bf (which here can be seen as another if we're being honest, do you think a guy who was short is going to get this chance) but you did add the crucial fact that she was fat before. I think any reasonable person (prob not on this forum) would say that ofc a girl who was fat before but suddenly became toned and looked a lot better will like the tall guy who stayed along to help her. Ofc emotional bonding and this sort of desire is a thing, but the very fact that she was gigafat and her bf was tall (also ltn but heightpill is a thing) shows that even when women are at the lowest level they could be without being deformed, they can still get partners with 1 attractive quality. For men, there is no such case that doesn't apply to women. For the average man, being short is going to knock your SMV down by a lot, being fat is going to make it nonexistent, and no hate to my indian brothers, but that too is like 2 strikes out automatically. Maybe, you'll just say that this is the way it is and that men always have to prove themselves, and sure, but this extent isn't something that one could just gloss over and say it isn't a huge deal. Ofc, as you get older and if you slave away at a job, even a sub5 can get into a relationship, as women do fear being alone and will eventually wish to enter one, but ultimately, I wouldn't really call that a success.

Overall though, I think it really depends on what your standards of a "success" are. If we're talking about getting laid and fucking as many women as you want, not looking at the looks scaling of those women, you could always dumpsterdive and get a girl who may genuinely want you (ofc would you like them would be the other story and from your anectdote, they may even reject you as a sub 5 if they are getting options even at this stage, turning what was easy into moderate difficulty). I think many of was simply want to have a genuine relationship with a girl that is decently attractive (not giga model tier but maybe at our own level, though many ofc want the best of the best let's not lie to ourselves). This is achievable ofc, but as people do want the raw physical attraction part as well, I can see many taking the because it really is just the simple fact that most guys do not get that. You have to look pretty damn attractive to get that with girls you like if your average (discounting Social Circle Pill ofc which I do think plays a role).

Never forget juggernaut theory.

 

[GodDeityEyeBro]

I will say for the 3rd point @LiL 369 made, while it is true that both genders subconciously analyze facial structures and that there is an objective attractiveness scale for the most part (with men having their favorable characteristics be the same across space and time in many civilizations with women being able to have more variety (brutal justbewomenpill)), there is obv a spectrum and a sort of "tilt" regarding how society percieves things. Make no mistake, a sub5 cannot be social engineered to appear better than a chad, but certain cultures do push different ideas of attraction (SEA countries with the prettyboy look, Western countries with more masculine idea of male beauty). Also, people do need to understand that not having hunter eyes doesn't mean you don't look good lol. Autists here just look at guys and require specific tools and get confused when girls look Lorenzo Zurzolo and say that he's hot (there is some scientific analysis you can do ig on his face but the attraction calculator is built in our skulls. You know when someone is hot when you look at them provided that your not an autist).

 

[GodDeityEyeBro]

Never forget juggernaut theory.

Perhaps the most brutal part about it. I have done really well in dating with girls I would consider what most people would consider quite attractive but the way some average and below average looking girls look at me when I just walk past them, you would think they're getting courted by the princes of Gandy's Heaven.

 

[GodDeityEyeBro]

@InanimatePragmatist @LiL 369

After thinking about, this is honestly by view of the :

1. It is the truest idea you can have of human nature, and the deterministic aspects of it (biology, social area, environment) hold more water than what or offers
2. However, people like Rehab Room, whose videos I do like and think are good, do have an overinflated view on it when looking at the average normie. It may be true for Rehab since he is sub 3 in a european country, but the average aspects of the will only manifest in a normal person doing online dating or having a dating life that is just "alright".
3. In the future, if the social climate hasn't changed or gotten better, I do actually think the intial ideas here may hold weight. There already is a small upheaval but it right now isn't something too big or major that will cause massive social chaos or anything that doomerist ers think will happen.
4. I think the biggest and most real just comes in 2 forms really. 1 is that men require things to be useful and it is only chads (or maybe htns in the right situations) that through looks alone can obtain the most genuine form of desire, almost like being a girl who has a guy lusting after you (I'm reminded of a famous football player who couldn't get the girl of his dreams even after statusmaxxed because that girl went after a homeless and now male model (really brutal I can't even lie)). The 2nd is that the rate of change in society exceeds the ways men can increase their "status". Manufacturing, AI developments, outsourcing, politics not caring about men (jfl at trump cucks after trump let migrants in farms work and having chinese diploma students come in to study) make the curve of success even harder to grasp with many of the working class just inevitably having the carpet pulled underneath them. This, along stuff said by the people and society in general will obviously cause the average working class guy to not really be considered as "valuable" which will hurt dating in the long-term future (I think Rehab disscussed this and stated a stat that said 1 out of 5 women in the UK are on OF which is just lol if it's true).

"Look at them. Ordinary people living in extraordinary circumstances"
- Some Random Chinese Webnovel That I read during the pandemic

This is honestly a quote that I think just encaspulates my point regarding this whole thing. We live in a unique era where while being ordinary may be fine for now, how long before it becomes obselete? I'm not just talking about dating but also about the jobs people have, the purchasing power, etc. As society continues to advance, it really only is a few people who can benefit as others get only some or maybe just even negative gains overall. I don't think it will be that bad to me personally and I don't think it's something to worry about 24/7, but I do think it's something to keep note of

 

[LiL 369]

Ofc, I myself do believe it is mostly environmental (where you live) and genetics that determine your own quality of life so I may be a bit subjective.

I do believe in that myself.

That being said, I will not be lying if I said that most relationships I've seen in my times in America (and perhaps in the future as well) are clearly failing in some sort of way or the other. Like in @InanimatePragmatist 's example of conditionality and how the man is often relegated as a sort of "paypig" or "ATM", while it is not always exactly like that, elements of it are very present whenever I go interact with old and new couples in a relationship. Ofc, there is an element of emotional bonding and perhaps genuine "love/interest" that indeed happens, but it is tied to things like financial security as well as the fact that as most people are average, they will just intend subconciously go for the average as they know their true worth.

Imma just be honest, I barely ever see BP moments in real life. Everyone I see is pretty average and dating other average people. And honestly, even saying barely is generous, because I don't see it at all, tall people are hard to see, same goes for good looking people... That’s quite interesting cause I open a bp video and they will show a "bp moment"... and the location is always like the US or the Uk... That's why I’m quite sure that transactional relationships are more common or noticeable in places where economic inequality or social pressure is more intense.

For men, there is no such case that doesn't apply to women. For the average man, being short is going to knock your SMV down by a lot, being fat is going to make it nonexistent, and no hate to my indian brothers, but that too is like 2 strikes out automatically.

Yes, I agree, but most people, even on this forum, dontt fall into that category. If I had made that thread on .is, it wouldn’t make sense, because those users recognize and accept that their looks or physical appearance lead to instant rejection by society. The percentage of men who are truly sub5 is so low that being blackpilled, especially when the outside world is full of average to below average looking people, living their life normally, without any pressure for lookism and w/e, just feels like a joke.

Also people often call average men normies without any self awareness of how deeply lookism actually shapes social dynamics. But the truth is, most people are very aware of their own level of attractiveness, not throught "blackpill" but their own experiences, interactions, rejections, compliments, how others treat them... People gradually understand where they stand in the dating hierarchy. So they kinda understand how did "blackpill" can hit, even if they never heard of it, the reason why they simply dont adopt and accept it, is because they see examples of sucess, people like themselves forming real relationships, getting love despite not being conventionally attractive. Those examples give them hope and prevent them from falling into a purely blackpilled mindset.

I think many of was simply want to have a genuine relationship with a girl that is decently attractive (not giga model tier but maybe at our own level, though many ofc want the best of the best let's not lie to ourselves). This is achievable ofc, but as people do want the raw physical attraction part as well, I can see many taking the because it really is just the simple fact that most guys do not get that. You have to look pretty damn attractive to get that with girls you like if your average (discounting Social Circle Pill ofc which I do think plays a role).

Most men also acknowledge that its difficult to attract a good looking woman if you are average or below average, and that you need to bring something extra to the table to have a real shot. They do nothing, still feel entitled to that outcome, and then turn around and blame the blackpill. Thats how I see it.

(I think Rehab disscussed this and stated a stat that said 1 out of 5 women in the UK are on OF which is just lol if it's true).

I think it was 1 out of 20.

 

[GodDeityEyeBro]

I do believe in that myself.

Imma just be honest, I barely ever see BP moments in real life. Everyone I see is pretty average and dating other average people. And honestly, even saying barely is generous, because I don't see it at all, tall people are hard to see, same goes for good looking people... That’s quite interesting cause I open a bp video and they will show a "bp moment"... and the location is always like the US or the Uk... That's why I’m quite sure that transactional relationships are more common or noticeable in places where economic inequality or social pressure is more intense.

Yes, I agree, but most people, even on this forum, dontt fall into that category. If I had made that thread on .is, it wouldn’t make sense, because those users recognize and accept that their looks or physical appearance lead to instant rejection by society. The percentage of men who are truly sub5 is so low that being blackpilled, especially when the outside world is full of average to below-average looking people, living their life normally, without any pressure for lookism and w/e, just feels like a joke.

People often call average men normies without any self-awareness of how deeply lookism actually shapes social dynamics. But the truth is, most people are very aware of their own level of attractiveness, not throught "blackpill" but their own experiences, interactions, rejections, compliments, how others treat them... People gradually understand where they stand in the dating hierarchy.

Most men acknowledge that its difficult to attract a good looking woman if you are average or below average, and that you need to bring something extra to the table to have a real shot. They do nothing, still feel entitled to that outcome, and then turn around and blame the blackpill. Thats how I see it.

I think it was 1 out of 20.

Yeah it's 1 out of 20. Don't know where i got 5 lol.

I think it's ultimately about where you live and perspective on other people's relationships too ig. It really imo is a 50/50 thing when you look at average people dating. There are some which I thought were exceptions that didn't turn out to be (either guy is getting bossed around or you can see that the girl doesn't truly like the guy and is only doing it for social validation) and there are couples that I thought would be pure examples of that were actually realitively normal all things considered.

When i was talking about the average guy, I was more thinking about how there is a lack of general genuine value that an average guy has by default. A girl can still attract despite looking just average or even moderately below average and not possessing the biggest and bestest personality traits or other things that "compensate" for it. For guys, Social Circle, being NT, goodlooking, etc. are factors that increase their value, but they themselves are never truly "valuable" for who they are yk? Maybe I'm just being feminine here or maybe it's just me generalizing my experience, but I never had to do as much as most my friends do to get a girl. There isn't really any game I have to spit, Social Circles i had to join (Am in a few, but never had this goal of being popular), and stuff I had to give (at most I give some girls a few presents during their birthdays but that's really it).

I do agree with you on those cases but I feel like most people here are talking about looksmatching in particular. Like a 4/10 fat guy getting rejected by a 4/10 fat girl and cases where even a 5/10 realitively fit guy may get rejected. Obviously people are not entitled to relationships and just cause you dumpsterdive or have the same/roughly the same appearance doesn't mean you deserve those girls but I will say for guys who are around 6/10 5/10, maybe you shouldn't demand for a 6/10 or 5/10 girl with just your appearance but I wouldn't blame you for wanting that yk?

Overal though, you make good points in regards to most kids who enter here. There are only a few who I do think need surgery to have good lives but most of these guys will do fine even without softmaxxing (tho ofc i recommend it). Honestly though, this issue will only be as bad as what other looksmaxxers say it is a few decades down the line if the world continues to become more looks focused. Unironically, South Korea and China is the only case where I can see asiancels having a point about severe lookism.

 

[LiL 369]

When i was talking about the average guy, I was more thinking about how there is a lack of general genuine value that an average guy has by default. A girl can still attract despite looking just average or even moderately below average and not possessing the biggest and bestest personality traits or other things that "compensate" for it. For guys, Social Circle, being NT, goodlooking, etc. are factors that increase their value, but they themselves are never truly "valuable" for who they are yk? Maybe I'm just being feminine here or maybe it's just me generalizing my experience, but I never had to do as much as most my friends do to get a girl. There isn't really any game I have to spit, Social Circles i had to join (Am in a few, but never had this goal of being popular), and stuff I had to give (at most I give some girls a few presents during their birthdays but that's really it).

I Think that falls onto the female - male nature ig... As @esoterik was saying...

I do agree with you on those cases but I feel like most people here are talking about looksmatching in particular. Like a 4/10 fat guy getting rejected by a 4/10 fat girl and cases where even a 5/10 realitively fit guy may get rejected. Obviously people are not entitled to relationships and just cause you dumpsterdive or have the same/roughly the same appearance doesn't mean you deserve those girls but I will say for guys who are around 6/10 5/10, maybe you shouldn't demand for a 6/10 or 5/10 girl with just your appearance but I wouldn't blame you for wanting that yk?

I understand, what you're saying.

Overal though, you make good points in regards to most kids who enter here. There are only a few who I do think need surgery to have good lives but most of these guys will do fine even without softmaxxing (tho ofc i recommend it). Honestly though, this issue will only be as bad as what other looksmaxxers say it is a few decades down the line if the world continues to become more looks focused. Unironically, South Korea and China is the only case where I can see asiancels having a point about severe lookism.

Quite sure those people are brainwashed to the core. They are born with a yellowish or tan skin tones, but they force on themselfs and theirs, that lighter skin or whiter skin color is superior than the one they were born with (internalized selfhate) then this creates socially discrimination towards the ones who dont follow the beauty norms (beauty norms they most of the times cant even geneticly obtain btw) and the funny part is that it aint about attraction anymore. It's like an indian caste system, where if you are at the bottom its just over socially, even when they are perfectly normal by global standards...

Its just insanity.

 

[GodDeityEyeBro]

Quite sure those people are brainwashed to the core. They are born with a yellowish or tan skin tones, but they force on themselfs and theirs, that lighter skin or whiter skin color is superior than the one they were born with (internalized selfhate) then this creates socially discrimination towards the ones who dont follow the beauty norms (beauty norms they most of the times cant even geneticly obtain btw) and the funny part is that it aint about attraction anymore. It's like an indian caste system, where if you are at the bottom its just over socially, even when they are perfectly normal by global standards...

Its just insanity.

They are but since the culture there has been heavily about having pale skin since basically the ancient times (pale skin was seen as not needing to work in the fields) they just basically worship anything that's white now. I'm pretty sure the reason why those chinese girls usually have white puppies is cause of that