Can free will logically exist with an omnipotent God?

[Incelforeever]

title

 

[Incelforeever]

@asdvek @Jesus_ist_König @PrettyboyQ @EvilSatanArseRapist

 

[PrettyboyQ]

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Like free will?

 

[Incelforeever]

Like free will?

oh yea i missed a word

 

[Laqi]

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No.

 

[Heretic]

Yea he's omnipotent he can make anything

 

[PrettyboyQ]

oh yea i missed a word

Yes so basically,

God knows everything we are going to do, but doesn’t force us to do it we still MAKE the choice. In simple terms he “predicts perfectly” what we’re gonna do.

 

[Incelforeever]

Yea he's omnipotent he can make anything

But if he omnipotent he knows ur outcome and everything u will do before even creating u so how is free will even possible logically?

 

[Incelforeever]

Yes so basically,

God knows everything we are going to do, but doesn’t force us to do it we still MAKE the choice. In simple terms he “predicts perfectly” what we’re gonna do.

but he created u, and he knew what u will do before creating u. U see thats where free will doesnt hold

 

[Heretic]

But if he omnipotent he knows ur outcome and everything u will do before even creating u so how is free will even possible logically?

It's possible because he can break logic

 

[PrettyboyQ]

but he created u, and he knew what u will do before creating u. U see thats where free will doesnt hold

Yes he created me, but he doesn’t force you to do anything, he just knows you’re gonna do it.

 

[PrettyboyQ]

It's possible because he can break logic

Exactly

 

[Incelforeever]

It's possible because he can break logic

Logic has to be held

 

[ccwb]

but he created u, and he knew what u will do before creating u. U see thats where free will doesnt hold

That’s the same argument for saying if he knows what u will do then why not immediately put us in judgement day
If so he puts you you’ll say “muh but god I didn’t even live the life your saying I will do so and so I swear I’m not gonna do it if I lived it actually”
So he give u this life so u can’t have any argument get it?

 

[Ahmed88]

But if he omnipotent he knows ur outcome and everything u will do before even creating u so how is free will even possible logically?

He does yes but God's foreknowledge does not cause human choices, for example
If you watch yesterdays football game, your knowledge of the outcome would not cause the players actions, Gods knowledge doesn't force your decisions

 

[Incelforeever]

Yes he created me, but he doesn’t force you to do anything, he just knows you’re gonna do it.

Never said he "forced you" to do something. He created u with the knowladge of everything u will already do, he literally made u and knew everything before. Free will can exist in that concept, at least i dont think so.

Lets say me, a fellow human knows ur future and every choice u will ever make. U still have free will despite me knowing everything u will do right? With an omnipotent God its different he doesnt only know every choice u would make, he literally created u with the knowladge of everything u would do. Where is the free will in that really

 

[PrettyboyQ]

He created you but not the actions that YOU will make, do ykwim?

Never said he "forced you" to do something. He created u with the knowladge of everything u will already do, he literally made u and knew everything before. Free will can exist in that concept, at least i dont think so.

Lets say me, a fellow human knows ur future and every choice u will ever make. U still have free will despite me knowing everything u will do right? With an omnipotent God its different he doesnt only know every choice u would make, he literally created u with the knowladge of everything u would do. Where is the free will in that really

 

[Incelforeever]

That’s the same argument for saying if he knows what u will do then why not immediately put us in judgement day
If so he puts you you’ll say “muh but god I didn’t even live the life your saying I will do so and so I swear I’m not gonna do it if I lived it actually”
So he give u this life so u can’t have any argument get it?

why give us this life at all? thats a much better question, cuz none of us choose to be created. that completly goes against free will

 

[Incelforeever]

He created you but not the actions that YOU will make, do ykwim?

that doesnt logically hold if he knew everything u would do before creating u, where is the free will in that?

 

[ccwb]

why give us this life at all? thats a much better question, cuz none of us choose to be created. that completly goes against free will

There’s some stuff you won’t understand simply cuz human brains can’t fathom it, it’s literally the same if you bring a human being and don’t show him any color and for example make him live alone in a forest he will say internet? That’s definitely not real and he wouldn’t realize it let alone know the real reason of the universe in science

 

[Incelforeever]

He does yes but God's foreknowledge does not cause human choices, for example
If you watch yesterdays football game, your knowledge of the outcome would not cause the players actions, Gods knowledge doesn't force your decisions

How does it not cause human choices if he created the humans with the foreknowledge already

 

[iblameocclusalcant]

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You wouldn't even exist

 

[PrettyboyQ]

that doesnt logically hold if he knew everything u would do before creating u, where is the free will in that?

God breaks logic, but just because he created you doesn’t mean you don’t have free will.

 

[Incelforeever]

There’s some stuff you won’t understand simply cuz human brains can’t fathom it, it’s literally the same if you bring a human being and don’t show him any color and for example make him live alone in a forest he will say internet? That’s definitely not real and he wouldn’t realize it let alone know the real reason of the universe in science

This convo aint about things we cant fathom. Its about the logic of free will with an omnipotent being. Saying we have the choices so "cant complain on judgment day" is wrong because my argument is there is not really a choice because u were created by a being that before creating u knew everything u will do

 

[Incelforeever]

You wouldn't even exist

without free will? with free will? i wouldnt exist if i wasnt created correct

 

[Incelforeever]

God breaks logic, but just because he created you doesn’t mean you don’t have free will.

thats not good enough. Lets all break all the laws of the universe for every debate why not

 

[PrettyboyQ]

But I also feel like I’m explaining it pretty well to you, God makes you WITHOUT free will but he also knows what you’re going to do

thats not good enough. Lets all break all the laws of the universe for every debate why not

 

[ccwb]

This convo aint about things we cant fathom. Its about the logic of free will with an omnipotent being. Saying we have the choices so "cant complain on judgment day" is wrong because my argument is there is not really a choice because u were created by a being that before creating u knew everything u will do

That’s a philosophical point where I definitely disagree with philosophers they try to get a argument from any point, so the only response for you is to look at my messege before and really think about it cuz you say why we were created god said to worship him, you may say why? For example I say to be grateful you say why do i need to be grateful I say to show that you are powerless without him the true creator and say for example he created us to make us feel pleasure, you’d say why, get it? You’ll always say why, since your taking from a philosophical point
But otherwise would you rather immense eternal pleasure after a few years of slight hardship or js non existing, for me I’d definitely want the immense amount of euphoria you’d get from heaven rather than nonexistent

 

[Ahmed88]

How does it not cause human choices if he created the humans with the foreknowledge already

Creating someone with free will is not the same thing as determining his choices. God causes your existence and gives you the power to choose, but he does not directly cause the content of your choices. When you decide, the decision comes from your own intellect and desires. In that sense, you are the immediate source of the action, even if God is the ultimate source of your existence.

 

[Incelforeever]

But I also feel like I’m explaining it pretty well to you, God makes you WITHOUT free will but he also knows what you’re going to do

So u agree with me than

 

[Incelforeever]

Creating someone with free will is not the same thing as determining his choices. God causes your existence and gives you the power to choose, but he does not directly cause the content of your choices. When you decide, the decision comes from your own intellect and desires. In that sense, you are the immediate source of the action, even if God is the ultimate source of your existence.

where is the power to choose if before u were created he knew what choice u would make why cant u grasp that?

"the decision comes from your own intellect and desires" but even than ur own intellect and desires were created by him its a simple omnipotent concept

 

[PrettyboyQ]

So u agree with me than

No, I believe in God. And I know he made me, but that doesn’t mean you don’t have free will

 

[lilking]

who tf is will

 

[Incelforeever]

That’s a philosophical point where I definitely disagree with philosophers they try to get a argument from any point, so the only response for you is to look at my messege before and really think about it cuz you say why we were created god said to worship him, you may say why? For example I say to be grateful you say why do i need to be grateful I say to show that you are powerless without him the true creator and say for example he created us to make us feel pleasure, you’d say why, get it? You’ll always say why, since your taking from a philosophical point
But otherwise would you rather immense eternal pleasure after a few years of slight hardship or js non existing, for me I’d definitely want the immense amount of euphoria you’d get from heaven rather than nonexistent

this kinda drove outside the free will talking point

 

[Incelforeever]

who tf is will

thats what am saying

 

[nitrocell]

 

[Incelforeever]

No, I believe in God. And I know he made me, but that doesn’t mean you don’t have free will

U might have an illusion of free will, but it doesnt exist with an omnipotent God imo with proper logic

 

[PrettyboyQ]

U might have an illusion of free will, but it doesnt exist with an omnipotent God imo with proper logic

I’m using my free will to talk to you rn

 

[ccwb]

this kinda drove outside the free will talking point

Js saying, cuz whatever you get it’ll not be enough
God HIMSELF said what amount of knowledge we have is little
Imagine this much math biology and sh it’s little
Js proves we cannot know why we were created
I’d say as my strongest argument and no atheist or extremely smart scientist answer
If the big bang was the start of the universe
It’s a reaction and produced reactants
It must have a Ea (activation energy)
Ea can’t be suddenly created
So it comes back for a creator to create it, literally no other interpretation for how Ea came

 

[Incelforeever]

I’m using my free will to talk to you rn

 

[PrettyboyQ]

You’re being mean

 

[Incelforeever]

Js saying, cuz whatever you get it’ll not be enough
God HIMSELF said what amount of knowledge we have is little
Imagine this much math biology and sh it’s little
Js proves we cannot know why we were created
I’d say as my strongest argument and no atheist or extremely smart scientist answer
If the big bang was the start of the universe
It’s a reaction and produced reactants
It must have a Ea (activation energy)
Ea can’t be suddenly created
So it comes back for a creator to create it, literally no other interpretation for how Ea came

im not arguing against god, im arguing against free will existing with an omnipotent god

 

[Incelforeever]

You’re being mean

sorry man

 

[ccwb]

im not arguing against god, im arguing against free will existing with an omnipotent god

If god exist, free will existing or not don’t matter, js worship him and enter paradise no need to make it difficult bhai

 

[Incelforeever]

If god exist, free will existing or not don’t matter, js worship him and enter paradise no need to make it difficult bhai

i agree with that, but a lot of omnipotent god believers constantly use "free will" to leave god out of creating evil in the world, because they would leave their faith if their fragile minds would find out god created everything including evil

 

[ccwb]

i agree with that, but a lot of omnipotent god believers constantly use "free will" to leave god out of creating evil in the world, because they would leave their faith if their fragile minds would find out god created everything including evil

This argument is pretty fragile without evil there’s no good vice Verca
How would u know this is good without evil
You’d think its the baseline normal behavior not good
I advice you to stop looking up these philosophical topics they bring nothing but doubt and low iq takes, research religions thoroughly you’ll eventually come to Islam if u have any questions about “Aisha” age or overused arguments come back to me I’ll help you give u the refutations

 

[aryanroidfaper]

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Nope.

 

[Incelforeever]

This argument is pretty fragile without evil there’s no good vice Verca
How would u know this is good without evil
You’d think its the baseline normal behavior not good
I advice you to stop looking up these philosophical topics they bring nothing but doubt and low iq takes, research religions thoroughly you’ll eventually come to Islam if u have any questions about “Aisha” age or overused arguments come back to me I’ll help you give u the refutations

My argument is fragile or theirs? i dont disagree with them bringing low iq takes i think discussions is always high iq at least for the most part.

This is what i have to say about islam

 

[ccwb]

My argument is fragile or theirs? i dont disagree with them bringing low iq takes i think discussions is always high iq at least for the most part.

This is what i have to say about islam View attachment 4691133View attachment 4691135View attachment 4691137

What does Saturn prove here?, being same shape doesn’t mean anything , elaborate on your point you said they look similar? And then what does that prove? Misread this point maybe
The Kaaba is cubic, Sure, other figures are cubic, since cubes are typically represented as a trapping shape or existential limitaiton from modern media exposure

 

[Diᴏgenes]

it doesnt exist with an omnipotent God imo with proper logic

and whats your argument for that assertion?